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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
Sun May 6, 2012, 02:07 PM May 2012

Pro-austerity blow in Greek vote, neo-Nazis gain seats

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jGARYCZXVDb5hosnp3ZKL9SThAGQ?docId=CNG.dcf83fd76a13c941c4681353fe595c6d.6b1



ATHENS — Greece's two main parties suffered big losses in elections Sunday, exit polls showed, rocking the eurozone state's austerity plans after a strong showing by protest groups including the neo-Nazis.

Anti-austerity parties could have won up to 58 percent of the vote between them, the exit polls showed.

<snip>

But with voters angry at the austerity cuts demanded in response, many of the smaller parties, including possible kingmaker Syriza, want to tear up the agreements.

The communist KKE party want to leave the eurozone and the neo-Nazis say they want to stop servicing Greece's debts, an aim shared by Kammenos who wants to turn to Russia to prop up the country.




Greece's anti-bailout Tsipras seeks left front

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-greece-leftistbre8440e5-20120505,0,7008823.story



ATHENS (Reuters) - Greece's youngest political leader, Alexis Tsipras, is seeking a united left front that will call time on the harsh austerity that comes with an international bailout keeping Athens afloat.

He calls the ultimatum thrown down by mainstream parties, bailout or bust, a scare tactic to force people to accept painful cuts in pay and pensions.

The leader of the Left Coalition, one of four parties vying for third place, Tsipras, 38, is appealing to the KKE communists, the Democratic Left and others to team up at May 6 elections to vote out policies driving Greeks into poverty.

"We want to form a government that will lead the way out of this destructive austerity and deep recession, the policies that face a dead end," he told Reuters before a speech to voters in Volos, a port city in central Greece.


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Pro-austerity blow in Greek vote, neo-Nazis gain seats (Original Post) Starry Messenger May 2012 OP
Well, I hope no one was 'SURPRISED'. Nt xchrom May 2012 #1
The ruling classes are indignant at the foolishness of the proles: Starry Messenger May 2012 #2
corporate parasites and filthy rich leeches don't want to ungame the system if it hurts themselves n msongs May 2012 #3
Scary. ellisonz May 2012 #4
Yeah, you'd think humanity had learned this lesson by now. Starry Messenger May 2012 #5
Honestly... ellisonz May 2012 #6
Hopefully it won't come to that. Starry Messenger May 2012 #7
The solution is clearly progressive socialism! ellisonz May 2012 #8
*barf* tralala May 2012 #12
Lost? Starry Messenger May 2012 #14
What IS your problem?......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #19
Troll. white_wolf May 2012 #20
Yep. Gorbachev tried to bring it to a decaying USSR Taverner May 2012 #32
I'm hoping the left coalition can get enough seats to hold the Nazis at bay. white_wolf May 2012 #9
Well, keeping an eye on both is probably wise. Starry Messenger May 2012 #10
I was hoping for a stronger showing by KKE TBF May 2012 #11
I thought the KKE didn't really like to participate in teh bourgeois elections. Starry Messenger May 2012 #13
There's a reason fundamental Bolshevism calls for......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #15
Hopefully we'll get some youngsters on board for that. Starry Messenger May 2012 #16
Maybe individual revolutionary types don't like it - TBF May 2012 #17
I wondered about that. I'm glad to know I read wrong. Starry Messenger May 2012 #18
This is an extremely unexpected result to me. joshcryer May 2012 #21
Which part was unexpected? Starry Messenger May 2012 #22
Sorry, I meant the neo-Nazi gain, I was unaware of their popularity, as it were. joshcryer May 2012 #26
Ah, gotcha. Starry Messenger May 2012 #28
I know that other places like the UK have a nationalist movement, but I guess I failed... joshcryer May 2012 #29
Seriously? The Greeks are pissed - TBF May 2012 #23
I understand anti-austerity, just not the pro-Nazi element. joshcryer May 2012 #27
I think we see it in this country as well TBF May 2012 #30
That is a warning bell. We have always known that we can go two ways when capitalism fails: jwirr May 2012 #24
Bingo. Starry Messenger May 2012 #25
Good reply. nt TBF May 2012 #31

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
2. The ruling classes are indignant at the foolishness of the proles:
Sun May 6, 2012, 02:21 PM
May 2012
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-06/greek-exit-poll-casts-doubt-on-new-democracy-pasok-majority.html



“Greece needed this election like it needed a hole in the head,” Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London, said in an e-mailed note. “The exit polls confirm what has been patently clear for some time: there’s no political consensus for the kind of reforms that Greece must implement if it wants to remain in the euro zone.”

The results, if confirmed, may mean that New Democracy and Pasok won’t have enough support for a majority of at least 151 seats in the 300-seat parliament. Pasok won general elections in 2009 with 43.9 percent of the vote and New Democracy came second with 33.5 percent. This is Greece’s first national election since it helped trigger the European debt crisis, receiving two bailouts with pledges worth 240 billion euros ($314 billion) in return for pension and wage cuts and higher taxes.

Greece must continue spending cuts to keep disbursements flowing. Failure to do that may determine whether the country has a future in the euro area.



Too bad you can't eat euros.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
4. Scary.
Sun May 6, 2012, 02:47 PM
May 2012
Neo-Nazi party Golden Dawn was also set to enter parliament for the first time since the end of the military junta in 1974, with six to eight percent, making it the sixth-biggest party in the 300-seat chamber with some 25 lawmakers, it said.


Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
5. Yeah, you'd think humanity had learned this lesson by now.
Sun May 6, 2012, 03:12 PM
May 2012
There's that Lenin quote "Fascism is capitalism in decay"...but watching it actually rise again is pretty fucking alarming.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Rise-of-far-right-in-Greece-worries-mainstream/tabid/417/articleID/252475/Default.aspx



The party has a barely veiled sinister side, and has been blamed for vicious attacks on immigrants. Members skirt questions about violence, saying they have no knowledge of such incidents.

"We don't do anything, we protect the Greeks," said Epaminondas Anyfantis, a mild-mannered, 59-year-old candidate who looks the antithesis of many of the young, muscled and shaven-headed members. "Now, if in protecting the Greeks, a foreigner might get a slap or a kick or something, I think that's in the framework of the protection of the Greeks. ... Because unfortunately the Greeks at the moment have come to the point of asking Golden Dawn for protection."

<snip>

Immigrants are increasingly concerned.

"We are worried very much," said Javed Aslam, the head of the Pakistani community in Greece, during a recent anti-racist demonstration. "This is very bad. You can imagine one political party with weapons, with knives, they are going out in the roads, and this is politics? This is not politics!"

<snip>

...they don't hide their admiration for many of Hitler's policies, saying he eliminated unemployment in Germany. Golden Dawn members often give fascist salutes at marches and rallies featuring nationalist slogans and burning torches, pictures of which adorn walls in party offices.






ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
6. Honestly...
Sun May 6, 2012, 03:15 PM
May 2012

...I think the solution to the fascist threat is to be found in the streets and not in the legislature. They have no respect for Greek democracy. They must be shamed by the country.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
7. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Sun May 6, 2012, 03:24 PM
May 2012

The last time there were Nazis fighting in the streets of Greece, things got pretty gruesome. I'm hoping the left coalition proposed in the second article I linked in the OP comes to some agreement. I'm not sure if Greece can do something similar to Iceland at this point...but the austerity must be eased.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
9. I'm hoping the left coalition can get enough seats to hold the Nazis at bay.
Sun May 6, 2012, 03:39 PM
May 2012

Though, to be fully honest I'm still more worried about the neo-liberals than the neo-nazis. Given Greece's history of Nazi occupation, I doubt they will be quick to embrace it. The neo-liberals are the real danger. I will say this, at least the Greeks have some choices in their electins. We have the option of this neo-liberal or that neo-liberal.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
10. Well, keeping an eye on both is probably wise.
Sun May 6, 2012, 04:03 PM
May 2012

These things can catch fire even if it seems they start small. The stories that groups of them are already starting to terrorize immigrant neighborhoods has some historical redolence.

It seems that the left has gained some significant ground, hopefully that will signal a mandate for anti-austerity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/06/greek-elections-exit-polls-parties?newsfeed=true



A Metron analysis poll showed the leftists gaining as much as 18.5%, more than the mainstream Pasok lead by former finance minister Evangelos Venizelos, who negotiated the latest €130bn (£105bn) loan agreement reached between Athens and the EU and IMF.



Our winner takes all system is frustrating, it is true. I'm sure forming coalition governments probably has its headaches too. But at least the lines are clearly drawn.

TBF

(32,047 posts)
11. I was hoping for a stronger showing by KKE
Sun May 6, 2012, 05:52 PM
May 2012

but if we could get 8.5% for our communist party here I'd be ecstatic.

I think the people have given their response on what they think of the Euro ... but the neo-Nazi gains are troubling.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
13. I thought the KKE didn't really like to participate in teh bourgeois elections.
Sun May 6, 2012, 06:58 PM
May 2012

I'm with you though, 8.5% for a Communist Party here and I'd be out dancing in the streets.

I hate to be a worry-wort about the fascist gains. I've been watching a few videos of their crappy deeds on YouTube and really they seem like blackshirt shocktroops.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
15. There's a reason fundamental Bolshevism calls for.........
Sun May 6, 2012, 07:51 PM
May 2012

a worker's militia. Several reasons actually, one of which are the fascists.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
16. Hopefully we'll get some youngsters on board for that.
Sun May 6, 2012, 07:59 PM
May 2012

I can't shoot to save my life, and marching for 20 minutes makes me winded and sweaty.

TBF

(32,047 posts)
17. Maybe individual revolutionary types don't like it -
Sun May 6, 2012, 08:26 PM
May 2012

but it looks like Papariga encourages voting:

The GS of the CC of the KKE, Aleka Papariga, spoke at a large election rally in the centre of Athens on Wednesday, 2nd of May.

Aleka Papariga noted from the podium of the rally:

“Trust the KKE, in the face of the storm which has already been announced.

The working men and women, the poor employees, professionals and farmers, even if they did not participate in strikes and other mobilizations, can and must vote with their class and political instinct as the main criterion.

http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-05-03-KKE-rally/


The website also says:

A powerful KKE at the ballot box. We must rise up, altogether with the people. And if we are stronger, the people will be stronger against the offensive that will be launched against them in the following period (…) Every negotiator, whether right-wing or left-wing, will come away empty handed from the EU bodies in relation to the needs of the people. For that reason we must make steps forward so that we can develop a vision of the radical change that will come in Greece and other European countries”.

3/5/2012



That woman rocks.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
18. I wondered about that. I'm glad to know I read wrong.
Sun May 6, 2012, 08:41 PM
May 2012

I must have misunderstood what I read. The KKE is an ML party, which would follow Lenin's observations of the course of other Socialist parties in the participation in their countries' governments:


One of the evident reasons was the erroneous tactics of the German Communists, who must fearlessly and honestly admit this error and learn to rectify it. The error consisted in their denial of the need to take part in the reactionary bourgeois parliaments and in the reactionary trade unions...


He recommends all methods of struggle, even the boringly legal ones. Boycotting isolates your party from the masses.

I love Aleka Papriga too!





Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
28. Ah, gotcha.
Wed May 9, 2012, 01:05 AM
May 2012

I don't want to link to their crud, but if you do a search on YouTube on "greece nazis" and "greece golden dawn" or "done" which is sometimes how it is spelled, you get some scary stuff. There's one video where men actually wearing blackshirts go in and berate a council promoting the Macedonian dictionary and take over the meeting and scream at the council. They make teabaggers look like a Junior League meeting.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
29. I know that other places like the UK have a nationalist movement, but I guess I failed...
Wed May 9, 2012, 01:16 AM
May 2012

...to see Greece's. I've been following Greece's anarchist movement and I know they attack the nationalists on occasion. Now I'm pondering if the Greek street riots were all anarchists (or leftists) or in fact had nationalist elements to them.

TBF

(32,047 posts)
23. Seriously? The Greeks are pissed -
Tue May 8, 2012, 11:22 AM
May 2012

of course they would vote out PASOK. don't think it's totally unexpected when you think about it. You've got a lot of people who are driven to the brink by the worsening conditions - and as we say "conditions will dictate". Some will lean far left, some far right, but they are going to vote anti-establisment when they are this upset. You can only push people so far.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
27. I understand anti-austerity, just not the pro-Nazi element.
Tue May 8, 2012, 10:35 PM
May 2012

I suppose I underestimated the nationalist element.

TBF

(32,047 posts)
30. I think we see it in this country as well
Wed May 9, 2012, 07:47 AM
May 2012

there will always be a subset going in that direction. I haven't really focused on them at all so it is certainly something to look at.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
24. That is a warning bell. We have always known that we can go two ways when capitalism fails:
Tue May 8, 2012, 11:36 AM
May 2012

socialism or fascism. Fortunately the majority is for socialism now the Greeks have to make sure that the nazi's do not increase.

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