Socialist Progressives
Related: About this forumPro-austerity blow in Greek vote, neo-Nazis gain seats
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jGARYCZXVDb5hosnp3ZKL9SThAGQ?docId=CNG.dcf83fd76a13c941c4681353fe595c6d.6b1ATHENS Greece's two main parties suffered big losses in elections Sunday, exit polls showed, rocking the eurozone state's austerity plans after a strong showing by protest groups including the neo-Nazis.
Anti-austerity parties could have won up to 58 percent of the vote between them, the exit polls showed.
<snip>
But with voters angry at the austerity cuts demanded in response, many of the smaller parties, including possible kingmaker Syriza, want to tear up the agreements.
The communist KKE party want to leave the eurozone and the neo-Nazis say they want to stop servicing Greece's debts, an aim shared by Kammenos who wants to turn to Russia to prop up the country.
Greece's anti-bailout Tsipras seeks left front
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-greece-leftistbre8440e5-20120505,0,7008823.story
ATHENS (Reuters) - Greece's youngest political leader, Alexis Tsipras, is seeking a united left front that will call time on the harsh austerity that comes with an international bailout keeping Athens afloat.
He calls the ultimatum thrown down by mainstream parties, bailout or bust, a scare tactic to force people to accept painful cuts in pay and pensions.
The leader of the Left Coalition, one of four parties vying for third place, Tsipras, 38, is appealing to the KKE communists, the Democratic Left and others to team up at May 6 elections to vote out policies driving Greeks into poverty.
"We want to form a government that will lead the way out of this destructive austerity and deep recession, the policies that face a dead end," he told Reuters before a speech to voters in Volos, a port city in central Greece.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Greece needed this election like it needed a hole in the head, Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London, said in an e-mailed note. The exit polls confirm what has been patently clear for some time: theres no political consensus for the kind of reforms that Greece must implement if it wants to remain in the euro zone.
The results, if confirmed, may mean that New Democracy and Pasok wont have enough support for a majority of at least 151 seats in the 300-seat parliament. Pasok won general elections in 2009 with 43.9 percent of the vote and New Democracy came second with 33.5 percent. This is Greeces first national election since it helped trigger the European debt crisis, receiving two bailouts with pledges worth 240 billion euros ($314 billion) in return for pension and wage cuts and higher taxes.
Greece must continue spending cuts to keep disbursements flowing. Failure to do that may determine whether the country has a future in the euro area.
Too bad you can't eat euros.
msongs
(67,395 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)http://www.3news.co.nz/Rise-of-far-right-in-Greece-worries-mainstream/tabid/417/articleID/252475/Default.aspx
The party has a barely veiled sinister side, and has been blamed for vicious attacks on immigrants. Members skirt questions about violence, saying they have no knowledge of such incidents.
"We don't do anything, we protect the Greeks," said Epaminondas Anyfantis, a mild-mannered, 59-year-old candidate who looks the antithesis of many of the young, muscled and shaven-headed members. "Now, if in protecting the Greeks, a foreigner might get a slap or a kick or something, I think that's in the framework of the protection of the Greeks. ... Because unfortunately the Greeks at the moment have come to the point of asking Golden Dawn for protection."
<snip>
Immigrants are increasingly concerned.
"We are worried very much," said Javed Aslam, the head of the Pakistani community in Greece, during a recent anti-racist demonstration. "This is very bad. You can imagine one political party with weapons, with knives, they are going out in the roads, and this is politics? This is not politics!"
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...they don't hide their admiration for many of Hitler's policies, saying he eliminated unemployment in Germany. Golden Dawn members often give fascist salutes at marches and rallies featuring nationalist slogans and burning torches, pictures of which adorn walls in party offices.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...I think the solution to the fascist threat is to be found in the streets and not in the legislature. They have no respect for Greek democracy. They must be shamed by the country.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The last time there were Nazis fighting in the streets of Greece, things got pretty gruesome. I'm hoping the left coalition proposed in the second article I linked in the OP comes to some agreement. I'm not sure if Greece can do something similar to Iceland at this point...but the austerity must be eased.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)You have read our TOS right?
Taverner
(55,476 posts)But by then it was too late
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Though, to be fully honest I'm still more worried about the neo-liberals than the neo-nazis. Given Greece's history of Nazi occupation, I doubt they will be quick to embrace it. The neo-liberals are the real danger. I will say this, at least the Greeks have some choices in their electins. We have the option of this neo-liberal or that neo-liberal.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)These things can catch fire even if it seems they start small. The stories that groups of them are already starting to terrorize immigrant neighborhoods has some historical redolence.
It seems that the left has gained some significant ground, hopefully that will signal a mandate for anti-austerity.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/06/greek-elections-exit-polls-parties?newsfeed=true
A Metron analysis poll showed the leftists gaining as much as 18.5%, more than the mainstream Pasok lead by former finance minister Evangelos Venizelos, who negotiated the latest 130bn (£105bn) loan agreement reached between Athens and the EU and IMF.
Our winner takes all system is frustrating, it is true. I'm sure forming coalition governments probably has its headaches too. But at least the lines are clearly drawn.
TBF
(32,047 posts)but if we could get 8.5% for our communist party here I'd be ecstatic.
I think the people have given their response on what they think of the Euro ... but the neo-Nazi gains are troubling.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm with you though, 8.5% for a Communist Party here and I'd be out dancing in the streets.
I hate to be a worry-wort about the fascist gains. I've been watching a few videos of their crappy deeds on YouTube and really they seem like blackshirt shocktroops.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)a worker's militia. Several reasons actually, one of which are the fascists.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I can't shoot to save my life, and marching for 20 minutes makes me winded and sweaty.
TBF
(32,047 posts)but it looks like Papariga encourages voting:
The GS of the CC of the KKE, Aleka Papariga, spoke at a large election rally in the centre of Athens on Wednesday, 2nd of May.
Aleka Papariga noted from the podium of the rally:
Trust the KKE, in the face of the storm which has already been announced.
The working men and women, the poor employees, professionals and farmers, even if they did not participate in strikes and other mobilizations, can and must vote with their class and political instinct as the main criterion.
http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-05-03-KKE-rally/
The website also says:
A powerful KKE at the ballot box. We must rise up, altogether with the people. And if we are stronger, the people will be stronger against the offensive that will be launched against them in the following period ( ) Every negotiator, whether right-wing or left-wing, will come away empty handed from the EU bodies in relation to the needs of the people. For that reason we must make steps forward so that we can develop a vision of the radical change that will come in Greece and other European countries.
3/5/2012
That woman rocks.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I must have misunderstood what I read. The KKE is an ML party, which would follow Lenin's observations of the course of other Socialist parties in the participation in their countries' governments:
One of the evident reasons was the erroneous tactics of the German Communists, who must fearlessly and honestly admit this error and learn to rectify it. The error consisted in their denial of the need to take part in the reactionary bourgeois parliaments and in the reactionary trade unions...
He recommends all methods of struggle, even the boringly legal ones. Boycotting isolates your party from the masses.
I love Aleka Papriga too!
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)What the fuck happened?!?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I wasn't sure what was going to happen, but I'm curious on your take on it.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I don't want to link to their crud, but if you do a search on YouTube on "greece nazis" and "greece golden dawn" or "done" which is sometimes how it is spelled, you get some scary stuff. There's one video where men actually wearing blackshirts go in and berate a council promoting the Macedonian dictionary and take over the meeting and scream at the council. They make teabaggers look like a Junior League meeting.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)...to see Greece's. I've been following Greece's anarchist movement and I know they attack the nationalists on occasion. Now I'm pondering if the Greek street riots were all anarchists (or leftists) or in fact had nationalist elements to them.
TBF
(32,047 posts)of course they would vote out PASOK. don't think it's totally unexpected when you think about it. You've got a lot of people who are driven to the brink by the worsening conditions - and as we say "conditions will dictate". Some will lean far left, some far right, but they are going to vote anti-establisment when they are this upset. You can only push people so far.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)I suppose I underestimated the nationalist element.
TBF
(32,047 posts)there will always be a subset going in that direction. I haven't really focused on them at all so it is certainly something to look at.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)socialism or fascism. Fortunately the majority is for socialism now the Greeks have to make sure that the nazi's do not increase.