From the League for a Fifth International on Ukraine.....

[socialist_n_TN]

This says it best. And it's a pretty short statement.

http://www.workerspower.co.uk/2014/04/oppose-the-repression-in-east-ukraine/

Also cross posted in GD.

[daleanime]

1. K&R....

[newfie11]

2. K&R

I wish those wanting our military to step into that mess reads this!!!!

[socialist_n_TN]

7. Well, those folks are just stupid newfie.......

This MUST be settled out by the Ukrainian people and NOT by the imperialists on either side.

To me the IDEAL outcome would be for the eastern Ukrainians to set up a "bottom up" democracy as a dual power to counter the interim government in the west using the threat of Russia to protect while it's being set up. After that it would probably spread TO the western parts and become viable nationwide. I have a feeling that if this happened, it would be strong enough to kick out and keep out ALL of the imperialist powers and we would finally see a true non-bureaucratic worker's government in operation. And Ukraine might be saved for actual Ukrainians and not for the oligarchs.

[DonCoquixote]

3. at least these folks

call Putin out for his warts, as well as the west.

[socialist_n_TN]

5. Yep. This has been the League's position all along......

And it's consistent with our historical mission of placing power into the hands of the workers and not the bureaucrats. The MSM of BOTH imperialist countries are trying to portray this ONLY as a battle between USA, EU, and Russian imperialisms (although they won't call it imperialism) whereas there are other elements, more basic elements, involved in this situation. There are fascists and ultra-nationalists on BOTH sides of the imperialist groups trying to influence the course of events. We want to see it go in a worker oriented direction rather than toward EITHER imperialism and certainly not in the fascist direction.

Borotba and the CPU are the ONLY organized working class elements in Ukraine that are advocating this path and they need to be supported.

[TBF]

4. Nice job -

Nailed it. Ukraine had long been known as the "bread basket" of Russia given it's many natural resources. So of course the various imperialists are fighting over the resources. Both parties should leave and let Ukraine rule itself.

Socialists, and anti-imperialist and anti-war activists should demand the release of all socialist and working class militants and the restoration of the property of socialists like Borotba and the Communist Party of Ukraine. We should demand the end of the interference in Ukraine by the EU and US forces, the end of attempts to force Ukraine to impose a Greek style austerity programme. At the same time, we should oppose the manoeuvres of Putin’s regime, which does not care about the rights of the workers and farmers of either Russia or Ukraine, but only acts to protect its interests as an imperialist power.

[socialist_n_TN]

6. I really can't prove it, but just judging by the course of events..........

I suspect that the western oligarchs were the prime movers and supporters of the Maidan uprising against Yanukovych. If you notice, it only came to a boil AFTER Yanukovych turned down the EU version of a bailout and it's strings of austerity and privatization for the Russian one that had LESS austerity involved-notice I did NOT say NO strings involved with the Russian version, just less. I suspect that the western oligarchs stood to lose BILLIONS in profits because of the switch, which caused them to unleash their fascist attack dogs against the Yanukovych regime.

The unrest was pretty easy to foment because Yanukovych was as corrupt as they come, but make no mistake, this was over lost profits for one sector of Ukrainian capitalists, NOT over Yanukovych's corruption. The payoff to the fascist in the west was the most disturbing thing to me. True they received only 4 ministerial posts in the interim government, but every one of those posts involved either "security" or "information" jobs.

[TBF]

8. I think it's pretty transparent -

but I've been watching them "help" countries for years ... The El Salvador business was happening while I was in college. That was a pretty formative experience for me.

[Cal Carpenter]

9. Thanks for posting this!

I hadn't seen it yet (can't imagine how it went over in GD, lol) and it sure sums things up well.

[socialist_n_TN]

10. Five replies, including one snark.........

which I replied to with a "Thanks for the kick". The other three were K&Rs though.

Yep I think the League nailed this one. But they've actually been pretty good on the situation in Ukraine all along because they've been consistent. Consistently "NO!" to ANY imperialism and of course, "NO!" to fascism and ultra-nationalism in both the east and the west.

This one they actually called for non-interference even with the Communist Party of Ukraine. Also consistent, but it's tough for Trots to do anything with the Stalinists.