RAP? Would like some opinions

[Brainstormy]

I smacked a hornet's next on Facebook in regard to a Rap entry winning the top song at Grammys. I said I thought "rap song" was an oxymoron. Katy Bar the Door! Lots of fun, some deep thinking in regard to what music is, etc., but no consensus. My problem is that rap does not satisfy my notion of "song." (Wikipedia notwithstanding.). What say ye?

[Blues Heron]

1. A poem is a song

So yeah, song.

[Croney]

2. Song.

[mr_lebowski]

3. If the argument is 'it's not really singing, therefore, not a song' ... then I ask ...

Were the old 70's/80's instrumental hits like Chase (from Midnight Express), A Fifth of Beethoven, and Music Box Dancer ... also not songs? Did classical music produce no 'songs' (outside of Operas)?

[trc]

7. This

And what about a "song" that has no instrumentation, but is simply spoken word with vocal effects i.e. Bobby McFerrin's "Don't worry, be happy?" Further, there is the old Dylan tune "Subterranean Homesick Blues," which is essentially a spoken word rhyme with music, you know, a rap song.

[LakeArenal]

4. If the artist says song... it's a song.

Recording?

Anyway, I realized recently I know the difference between Cypress Hill and House of Pain.
Never thought I would say that.

Although still ignorant of rap vs hip hop?

[brush]

5. Music evolves, so has rap from it's early days.

From pioneering rappers Curtis Blow on to Fat Joe, Run DMC, Biggie and Tupac, Snoop, Wu Tang Clan, Missy Elliot, Lauren Hill, Cardi B it has grown, become syncopated even in some instances.

It depends on the artist many times as to whether the genre suits your ear. Just keep in mind that Rock and Roll was once considered scandolus and not suitable to some ears.

Also, let's stay off these rapper's lawns.

[The Polack MSgt]

6. An entire genre can't be dismissed. You don't have to like it, but to just say it's not music

Is horribly narrow minded and frankly disrespectful.

That statement should have passed it's expiration date before 1990 (at the latest)

I did write a quick primer for folks my age - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10348474

[Brainstormy]

8. OK, but

I didn't say it wasn't music. It was about my definition of "song."

[The Polack MSgt]

10. I believe an infinite number of angels can dance on the head of a pin. That is if angels exist...

In your OP you said - Lots of fun, some deep thinking in regard to what music is, etc., but no consensus.

I don't feel like parsing the nuance of the logic behind "It's music but not a song"

It is music and it's discrete components are songs.

Imagine if I came on this board and typed out that I believed -

"The term 'Jazz song' was an oxymoron. Oh I think Jazz is music, but those aren't really songs because they don't fit my definition of acceptable song structure and melodic progression. And even when there are "Singers" they often don't even use words in ways that make sense"

[ADX]

9. While they might not be everyone's cup of tea...

...Rap and hip-hop are legitimate art forms. If you don't think they qualify as songs, listen to A Tribe Called Quest's album, "The Low End Theory"...