I hate Walter White. Hate, hate, hate him.

[cali]

It's a testament to how great the Cranston is and how great the writers are that I feel this way about a TV character

I came to dislike Walter early on but dislike changed swiftly to loathing as he justified his bad acts and forced poor malleable Jesse into becoming a pain wracked wraith.

I don't have a clue as to how things will wrap up on BB, but I would love to see some epic retribution for Walter.

[hlthe2b]

1. Especilly given there really isn't a "good guy" foil

The character development in this show has been impressive... Even if you are rooting for Walt to go down (hard), does anyone really want his DEA brother-in-law, with all his flawed "oversteps" and callous disregard for Jessie (and others) to "win?"

[cali]

2. Honestly, I've never felt this way about a tv character before

fictional characters in books, yes, tv, not even close. And so true about Hank.

But I do think that Jesse has effectively been the "good guy" foil though of course he's a bad guy. The things that they've done that have made Walter such a monster have wrecked Jesse.

[Howler]

15. See I think Jesse was "Wreaked" before Walt even entered his life

And has far has being the "Good Guy" Jessie shot and killed that Nerdy Older Cook that liked to sing. Of course it was Under Walters request but If he hadn't They both would have been disposable Fish food. So I mean Jessie really isn't any better then Walt He would defend himself from anyone else taking him out though it was quite clear He was bound and determined to take himself out .

[Howler]

12. OOO! I agree hlthe2b

This whole show Writers and cast is an absolute Master piece!!!

[Fantastic Anarchist]

3. I can't help but root for Walter ...

... and that doesn't mean I'm rooting against Jesse. I'm actually rooting for both of them; just don't know how the show is going to reconcile both my wants.

[cali]

4. I honestly don't see how anyone can root for Walter

I want him to get the most painful comeuppance possible.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

5. i still see his humanity.

[Howler]

11. I do too!

And Walt has Always been consistent with wanting to leave his family a financial legacy and even setting up Jessie comfortably for life. the only thing Skyler was consistent in was Hypocrisy and laying all the blame at Walters Door Not once taking responsibility for her own actions!!

[theHandpuppet]

39. I'm with you

And the sexist bullcrap that has reared its ugly thread on this thread really leaves me astounded.

[Howler]

44. There Is No

Sexist Bullshit on this thread. Rofl!! There is only a break down of the characters and what they have done or not done.
Period. However We now know how you debate.

[theHandpuppet]

45. I call it as I see it

And if the shoe fits, wear it.

[Howler]

50. LMAO!!!

Well its clear thats all you got to offer. HOOOWWWLLL!!! Can't actually debate the actions of the written characters Or discuss any nuance so you try to attack and name call the other posters . That's really weak and not particularly interesting either.

[theHandpuppet]

52. Don't feel like debating...

... whether murdering meth dealers are heroic.

[Howler]

53. Hmmmm

Then just maybe Breaking Bad is not the program for you.
You are aware that this is Fictional right?
None Of these Characters or their situations are all Good/Evil Black and White Due to the artistry of the Writing.
It way more Existential then that.
It is in fact a Masterpiece Which I have no doubt will even have college classes debating this. Just You watch.

[Duer 157099]

6. Me too. Even after seeing tonight's episode

I'm pissed at holier-than-thou Marie and Skyler for what they did to junior.

[cali]

7. telling him the truth??

yeah, that's so much worse than what murderous scum walt did.

and Marie thought that walt was in custody and that it was all about to spill.

[Duer 157099]

10. Walt was all about "protecting" his family

Never once did he deviate from that path. I mean in terms of his intentions. Clearly it didn't always work the way he intended.

[cali]

17. If he was all about protecting his family

he would have gotten out when they had the opportunity to sell the chemical from the train heist.

He wasn't all about protecting his family at all. He used that as an excuse.

[theHandpuppet]

40. Bingo!!

It wasn't about protecting his family. It was all about control. And that included controlling his family.

[Goblinmonger]

42. He leaves his family in the last episode to protect them.

How is that controlling? Yeah, he says some horrible shit on the phone but he knew the cops were on the line and that was to protect Skyler from getting into trouble for the highly illegal stuff she has done. Yeah, that makes him a controlling asshole.

[Howler]

9. Me Too!

Skyler has always been a controlling Wench . And Marie.... Please!

[theHandpuppet]

38. Wow -- the sexism comes out in force

Interesting that to some folks the women have to be to blame. They are the nasties, not the drug-cooking, murderous sociopaths. Wow -- didn't take long.

[Goblinmonger]

41. Do you like all aspects of the two female characters?

I generally like Skyler. Marie is a piece of shit, in my opinion. And that has nothing to do with the fact that she has a vagina. I would much rather hang out with Walt than Marie. Walt has always been about his family. Is it sexist that you just discount him as a "drug-cooking, murderous sociopath" when he clearly isn't a sociopath? He loves his family and has always tried to protect them. Skyler has done some horrible shit over the course of the show, too. But I have to love her and Marie or I'm sexist? Please.

[theHandpuppet]

46. The fact that the same posters who glorify Walter White...

... meth cooker, murderer, liar, poisoner of children, kidnapper et al seem to be the same ones who completely trash the women characters of the show. Coincidence? I think not. Shameful? Yeah, sadly.

[Goblinmonger]

48. Nobody on this thread is black and white

Nobody thinks Walt is "glorified" and the women are "complete trash." Walt has a shit ton of faults but he also has very many things about him that are admirable. That's why he's a fantastically crafted character and the show is so successful. Skyler and Marie are two different characters. There is much more that is positive about Skyler than Marie, in my opinion. But that makes sense because Skyler is a major character and Marie is not. Marie is much more flat and is there, primarily, to push the plot along. Skyler has plenty of her own sins.

But, again, like the show, nobody here is black and white. No character on the show is completely evil and completely good. Nobody here is saying that Walt is 100% wonderful and Skyler should just shut up and make Walt a pie.

But, hey, if it helps you to make it through the day to think that, I'm not going to stop you.

[Howler]

55. GoblinMonger

My main beef with Skyler Is her unwillingness to fully commit to anything. If she truly felt that Walt and his business were a danger to those children (which it most definitely was/is) when she first found out about Walt's criminal activities was the time to take the kids and leave. Period! Enough said. Full commitment. I would respect that decision fully. Instead she willing spent the money from the drug enterprise and showed herself to be quite adept at criminality herself. I respected that and if she had fully committed to it, had Walter's back, and helped run the business I would have more respect for her decisions. But No!!!!! She thought she could keep one foot in the drug business and one foot out. This attitude quite literally added even more unnecessary danger to herself, Walt, and her family. She could have really been a decent partner to Walt once she accepted what he was doing. I really wanted her to go all in with Walter. She was really good at it. And I think, on some level, she found it exhilarating to be able to unapologetically express that side of herself. There in lies the human paradox of Skyler's character and the frustration for me. Which does not mean I don't like Skyler. Thats just not true. The White Family has gone beyond The Garden Of good And Evil They are now navigating Existential territory where taking responsibility for decisions and actions is prime. Its beyond Social Morals and Judgements

[Howler]

43. Oh Please What A bunch of Marlarky!!

HOOOWWWLLLL! Lets see now Who exactly called out the thugs to hurt Ted? You remember Ted Don't ya?
The Guy Skyler Slept with and helped Hide his criminal Thievery from the I.R.S..
The same Guy she Gave a sizable amount of Cash that Walter had Earned And Didn't tell Walter she was doing it. And Unfortunately Has it turned out Walter Needed that cash to get her and the Kids Out To safety when Walter And Gus Were Having their Final Show down.
Also Who went to Visit Ted in the Hospital After he was Paralyzed By the thugs She Sent out to beat him up and Threatened Him!!! Yeah! That was All Skyler Handpuppet. So Don't even Try to Assert that I'm judging Skyler by her gender not her Actions! That's so weak! Rofl!!! Here! You don't have to believe me. HHHHOOOOWWWLLLL!

"There is a growing perception that Skyler is beginning to enjoy her new life as a criminal accomplice, becoming much more confident in her abilities to carry out the money laundering operation and becoming less concerned about his criminal transgressions. Skyler and Walt's relationship also begins improving as they make love for the first time since Skyler learned of Walt's meth cooking ("Shotgun&quot . They buy the car wash from Bogdan Wolynetz, which they use to launder Walt's money, and establish a gambling addiction story to explain their rocky relationship and newfound wealth to the other members of their family.

After the IRS catches on to the fraud at Beneke Fabricators, Skyler secretly gives Ted the $615,000 he needs to pay the IRS debt to avoid jail time. She fears that if the IRS digs any deeper into his business, they'll start digging into hers and could discover Walt's unreported drug money ("Salud&quot .

Ted instead decides to not pay off his debt immediately, possibly in an attempt to blackmail Skyler, so Skyler calls Saul Goodman who sends his "A-Team" to force Ted to pay off the IRS. Walt, unfortunately, was unaware that Skyler had used the majority of their money, so when he returns home to find he no longer has enough to transport his family, he temporarily breaks down in fear of what Gus may do to them ("Crawl Space&quot .

Skyler was until then unaware of the danger she was in, so when the DEA collected her and her family in response to Walter's anonymous warning, Skyler knew Walter was involved. After Walter's confrontation with Gus, Walter returned home to find Skyler still worried and confused. When Skyler asked Walter what happened, he simply replied "I won." ("Face Off&quot

[theHandpuppet]

47. So now that you've made a laundry list of Skyler's transgressions...

... I'm assuming you want her to "get away with it all" just as you wish it for Walter White?

I thought not.

[Howler]

49. I absolutely want Skyler

To come out of this O.K. And want her to get away with it. I like Skyler. I am just very aware of her Hypocrisy.
I hope that Walt is Successful and His family ends up with the Money.
I really want Walt to survive But I just don't see that Happening but Hopefully I'm wrong.
You need to quit reading things that just are not there in my posts the Handpuppet.
I am a 54 year old Woman who is also a housewife.So I can most definitely relate to Another Housewife.

[theHandpuppet]

51. So?

You'll have to pardon me if I say that the very notion of wanting a murdering, lying, kidnapping, child poisoner, meth dealer to "get away with it" escapes me. How many more people will have had to die or suffer for Walt to achieve "success" and get away with his drug money? You and I will NEVER see eye to eye regarding Walter White.

If you can "relate to another housewife" I wonder just what that truly means, considering how well you relate to Skyler in your complete trashing of the two women characters of the show.

I don't have to read anything into your posts. They speak for themselves.

[Howler]

54. LMAO!!!

Whatever.
Yes! I stand by all my posts and Yours represent you quite well too. sigh.

[Howler]

8. LOL!

I am so rooting for Walter!!! I hope he gets away with it all!.
I am so pissed at Skyler. Once Again I wish she would show some loyalty to someone besides herself and her delusions of grandeur.
She has shown that she has a very criminal heart and mind her damn self. Laundrering the meth money She even had the nerve to give a large amount of Walters drug money to a man she was cheating on him with. Grrrrrrr! And When she asked Walter to please kill Jessie because he represented a "Threat" the White Family She lost all right to judge ANYTHING Walt has done or going to do.She has been NOTHING but a hypocrite! And Don't get me started on her sister Marie! You talk about Two Controlling Women Sheesh! Marie Is a clypto who wants her own sisters kids! Period!! You better believe if Hank had survived and Skyler had to depend on marie for support it was going to be AWFUL!!! Marie would constantly be reminding and punishing Skyler for her past actions and Marie would have taken over total control of the White kids! IMO. LMAO Hell just look at the damage she did in the short interim of Walt being arrested by hank and Hank "Disappearing"!!! Has far has "Poor" Jessie PLEASE!!!! He was a loser destined to kill himself before Walter even entered the picture! His Family had kicked him out! He was Already cooking inferior Meth and street dealing it. OMG!When he hooked up with that junkie girl If Walt hadn't let her die on her own volition They both would have ended up dead from an O.D. Anyways!! Jessie was Always self destructive and was going to take himself out one way or the other! Walt Very well may have prolonged Jessie Sad little life if anything!
I agree This is the best program I have Ever seen on or off T.V. I would never have pictured the Actor playing Heisonburg has a big time drug dealer! ROFL!!!! He always played bumbling but loveable character's before this role. The writing is genius! All the actors are absolutely Sublime!! The New cop show they are trying to replace BB with is Flat and colorless in comparison though I really wanted to give it a chance I just can't get into it. I think it was a big mistake to put it on after the last episodes of BB. They should have waited till after the BB Series Finally. LOVE LOVE Love this Show!!!! Sigh. Thank goodness for "Sons of Anarchy" New season starting At least there will be at least one almost comparable program to watch still on T.V.

[Howler]

13. OOO! Not Me Cali!!!

I hope he gets away with it All!!!! Was it Billy Preston or Doctor John who said in his song lyrics Can't the "bad" guy win every once and awhile!

[Duer 157099]

14. Did you hate Tuco Salimonca as much?

There have been some truly dispicable characters on this show. Including Skylar.

Walt truly is the protagonist here. In spite of all the "bad" things he's done, he's not an evil guy, unlike so many on the show.

[cali]

16. what???? Of course Walt is evil

and why on earth would you put "bad" in parentheses?

Vince Gilligan who created Walter says he's evil. Makes no bones about it. He says it's the journey of a man from "Mr. Chips to scarface". That's pretty unequivocal. Walt has no moral center at all.

[Goblinmonger]

18. But I think Mr. Chips is still in there

and makes frequent appearances. He tries to save Hank's life. If he were evil to the core with no moral center, he would have done what Scarface clearly would have which is ask to be uncuffed and shot Hank himself. He didn't. He was clearly crushed when Hank was killed and he clearly didn't want it. Did the Scarface switch come on after that? Yes. Absolutely. But that's what makes Walter one of the best characters on TV ever. He's not simple. If her were pure evil, we would hate him and nobody would watch the show to see the exploits of pure evil. There is a part of him that everyone should and does like. I think we can all identify with that on a much smaller scale (at least I hope so).

[Howler]

20. I agree Whole Heartedly GoblinMonger

None of the Characters are simple or all good and all bad. Walt Even is trying to clear and protect his wife in that last phone call in the episode just aired on Sunday Night.

[Goblinmonger]

21. Absolutely with that phone call.

He knows the cops are on the line and what he tells her is very calculated to make sure no scrutiny is place on her. That they think he is a controlling, abusive prick. She better be grateful for that.

[Howler]

22. Don't get me wrong.

I like Skyler but the minute she loses control of the people around her and the situation she goes off! She attacks Walt Turns on him 8 ways to hell and back so It's hard for me to gage her in this instance because EVERTHING is spinning out of her and Walts Control. Like You GoblinMonger I would hope But Who Knows!!! Her sister Marie Also Has Control issues too. The only difference is Hank Dismissed her frequently which may have caused the Clypto Stuff. LOL! In her session with her Psych. Seemed like she was a little obsessive Compulsive to me. ROFL! The thing I love about all these Characters are their moral Judgments passed on Walt but when faced with any threat or danger to their own families They do or fantasize about doing the same thing that Walt did, like Marie researching poisons to kill Walt With. I think its More About Human Nature then any real sense of evil people or persons written into the storylines.
Skyler Did it too when she first found out about Walt Cooking and selling Drugs OOOO! How Awful!!! Yet She goes to work for her x-boss To cover up his Criminal activity with her accounting skills, Has An Affair with him, Gives Him Walts money gotten by criminal means And still has the nerve to Judge Walt...????? Really! LMAO!!!

[Howler]

19. Actually Cali

Walt has Quit the drug business for his family and just working the car wash business.
This season has Walt just trying to retire and keep Hank off his Ass and Jessie from blowing both their lives to smithereens.

Also Vince Gilligan the creator has a much more Nuanced view on Walter White then "He is Evil"
He says And I quote " I have kind of lost Sympathy For Walter" Or something very close to that.
Vince and the other writers in their interviews have talked about Walters Constant commitment to his family.
Its all in the three interviews Below Plus Vince drops a very interesting teaser about how Walt ends up.


http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/aug/18/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-walter-white

More Vincent Gilligan on his Characters.
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2013/09/breaking-bad-exclusive-vince-gilligan-teases-heart-attack-conclu/

Other Breaking Bad writers take on it.
http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/rian-johnson-moira-walley-beckett-breaking-bad-ozymandius-interview.html
Another Vince Gilligan Interview
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s166/breaking-bad/interviews/a510056/breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-talks-final-season-fan-theories.html

Here's the Teaser from the first article posted.
"Unlike in The Sopranos, there is "not much in the way of ambiguity with this ending … I feel like this ending represents on some level, however small, something of a victory for Walter White. Read into that what you will."
(((SHIVER)))) I wonder If Walt Still Dies But the Family gets the money he has left. And If he dies Does he go out in a hail of bullets or by his own hand or does the Cancer get him.

[trumad]

23. I think after this episode--

the I am rooting for Walt meme is dead.

Dude is flat out evil.

[cali]

24. he is flat out evil. that side of him won several seasons back

the show creator says so but people here are still in denial. it's interesting.

[Goblinmonger]

25. It's not denial.

And that's not what they said.

And if they were making him "flat out evil" why would he have tried to save Hank's life? Why would he have said to Skyler what he did to help her out with the police?

He's much more complex than that. And give the writer's credit. They aren't writing a flat character. There is much that is dynamic still in Walt. If he were just one-dimensional, the show would suck.

[cali]

26. Of course he's flat out evil or damned close to it.

It took a while for him to get there but he got there. And really, that is what Gilligan has said.

[Goblinmonger]

27. Here's what he said in May

But this is not a show about evil for evil’s sake. Walt has behaved at times in what could be regarded as an evil fashion, but I don’t think he’s an evil man. He is an extremely self-deluded man. We always say in the writers’ room, if Walter White has a true superpower, it’s not his knowledge of chemistry or his intellect, it’s his ability to lie to himself. He is the world’s greatest liar. He could lie to the pope. He could lie to Mother Teresa. He certainly could lie to his family, and he can lie to himself, and he can make these lies stick. He can make himself believe, in the face of all contrary evidence, that he is still a good man. It really does feel to us like a natural progression down this road to hell, which was originally paved with good intentions.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/05/vince-gilligan-on-breaking-bad.html

I ultimately think that how Walk reacted to Jesse was to save Jesse. He remembered what Hank said about the guy making up his mind to kill him. He knew Jesse was going to be killed. He thought the best way to save Jesse would not be to beg them to save Jesse. That failed miserably with Hank. Instead, he knew these Nazis needed a new cooker, young Nazi knew Jesse could cook, and if he made it seem like he was at odds with Jesse, then they would try to bring Jesse to their side and cook for them. At least that keeps him alive long enough for Walt to "finish some business" and get his money back and save Jesse.

He's a complex guy. He does a whole lot of shitty stuff for shitty reasons. But to just say he's pure evil is too easy and doesn't do justice to one of the best characters ever developed on television.

[Howler]

30. Hmmmmmm.....Very Intersesting Take GoblinMonger

Now I See That a little Different.
I think When Walt Stopped Jessie from Burning Down The House He still wanted Jessie To survive..... But Once Jessie started working with The DEA and Threatened Walt and his Family All Bets were Off.
Walt called the Nazi's to put a hit on Jessie and To meet him out in the desert When He thought It would Be Just Jessie That would show up. The Only Thing that changed his mind Is when Hank Showed up Too. Then And Only then Did Walt try to call off the Nazis from Coming And Surrendering to Hank. I think Now that Hank is Dead Walt Wants Jessie Dead in the Slowest Most Painful Way Because Hank Was Family. LOL! Now I could Be wrong And I think Its A very interesting Twist You have proposed. We shall both see. At this point I really don't see Walt Surrendering to the Authorities Do You? I also Don't see him Letting Someone else take him out. Do you? I gotta feeling I'm going to cry like a baby At the B.B. ending which is refreshing since I haven't done that since the Ending Of "Six Foot Under."

[Goblinmonger]

33. I may very well be wrong.

But I'm not ready to think that Walt really wants Jesse dead. He has been like a father to him in so many ways. Yes, he's be shitty, too.

[Howler]

34. AWWWWW!

I can understand where you are coming from and even root for that to happen too Goblinmonger! And I completely agree That Walt Has Been a father figure to Jessie who so desperately needed one so was Mike.
One Of the many things I love about Breaking Bad it Has Been impossible to predict what was going to happen or even the outcome of any situation explored on the show. So many Programs are just the opposite being So easy to predict.

My guess is The Ricin cigarette Walt went back for is for himself. I just don't know if He is going to turn himself in to protect his family, Confess then fire up that cigg in a room full of cops or ........Is he going to fire that cigg up when he is in a room full of the Nazis That Killed Hank and took most of his money???? Either Way Wouldn't that Ricin Cigarette Kill Everybody in the Room?
Or I could be so completely Off the mark LOL! Ya just got to appreciate the writing on this show! It truly is phenomenal.

BTW Now I'm going to go Google The Poem Of the BB title Too.

[Howler]

35. OMG! OmG! OMG!!! ROFL!!!

GoblinMonger!!!! I went To read the poem You Pointed out WOW!!!! Thank You!!! That really Does Add Depth And Even More Soul To BB.
But What Really Got me going was they Mentioned "The Watchmen" Comic books Which was One I was Trying to remember but Couldn't to put on the list of Our Earlier posts about Comicbooks! HHHHHHOOOOWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

[Goblinmonger]

36. I'm a high school English teacher

and have taught that poem about a dozen times. I loved it way before BB. But the level that this show is written on is just amazing. Anybody who likes BB needs to read that poem to really understand this last episode.

[Howler]

37. I read Both Versions Shelly's And Smiths....

I think I like Shelly's better.
You know (Of Course you do. You're an English Professor) That another challenge that Shelly had made created Mary Shelly's Frankenstein Which is another controversial piece not unlike BB On Who Actually is the Monster.

This may surprise you but A lot of my friends are professors. They work At University of Dayton and a couple work at Wright state.

Ozymandias




I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away

It really does capture Walt.

[Howler]

28. LOL!

Its Not Denial to disagree with your assessment of Walter Cali. ROFL!!!
Or even your interpretation of what the creator and the writers have ACTUALLY said about Walter.
I don't need to box in Limit and label a character or a person As "Good Or Evil," Or complex situations has Black or White. Then dismiss it.If I did I could Watch Cartoons and read comic books for that. However I do not find Them interesting at all.

The funny thing about all this is you said you wanted Walt to have an "Epic Retribution" Which has Already happened in the last episode.
The only thing that mattered to Walt was his Family and he has lost All Of them completely. Hank is dead and Junior has turned against him, The Baby Needed her Mother and Walt can't go home again. For all intense purposes In Walts Mind and heart He is now a walking dead man. The only question left is How?.

[Goblinmonger]

29. 2 things

1. Do not lump comic books into black and white. (just a little give and take, not really getting pissy about this) I can give you titles to read some really great stuff.
2. I have a feeling that the last few episodes are going to be Walt trying to redeem himself. I mean even the title of the episode leads to a fantastic poem and makes it clear that this episode is about Walt being at the complete bottom and that his "empire" has crumbled around him into nothingness.

[Howler]

31. Snort!

I knew I was Going To Catch Heat For That! LOL! I actually Do Love some Comic Books Too And There Is A whole genre That is Very
Social and Political. "X-men" The Series that Sin City is based on. The Sand Man. And V for Vendetta. So Please Forgive me my Trespasses GoblinMonger.

[Howler]

32. WOW!!!

That Would be very cool Ending.... I can't wait to see GoblinMonger!!!.
I am Glad the Writers Are ending BB to Satisfy Themselves and Not The Audience. The Ride That they have Taken us on Was just Devine!! And I don't want The Storyline Cheapened By trying to appease the Audience.