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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Fri May 3, 2013, 07:03 AM May 2013

German bomber to rise from its English Channel grave

The only surviving German second world war Dornier Do 17 bomber is to be raised from the English Channel in an operation announced on Friday.

The plane's retrieval from the Goodwin Sands off the Kent coast more than 70 years after it was shot down during the battle of Britain will mark the biggest recovery of its kind in British waters, the RAF Museum said.

The existence of the aircraft became known when it was spotted by divers in 2008 at a depth of around 15 metres (50ft) on a chalk bed.

Sonar scans by the RAF Museum, Wessex Archaeology and the Port of London Authority then confirmed the identity of the aircraft as the Dornier Do 17Z Werke number 1,160.

Nicknamed the Luftwaffe's "flying pencil" bombers because of their narrow fuselage, the aircraft is said to be in "remarkable condition".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/03/german-bomber-rise-english-channel

Dornier 17

?height=214&width=444

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/things-to-see-and-do/dornier-17-conservation/dornier-17.aspx

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German bomber to rise from its English Channel grave (Original Post) dipsydoodle May 2013 OP
Said to be in remarkable condition, oldironside May 2013 #1
You can do wonders dipsydoodle May 2013 #2
In general you may be right, oldironside May 2013 #3
Do you think it will go to Germany dipsydoodle May 2013 #4
I was under the impression oldironside May 2013 #5
Its clear now - its going to RAF Hendon dipsydoodle May 2013 #6
So, good luck to the team. oldironside May 2013 #7
A video of the recovery frame. oldironside May 2013 #8
And they've got it up to the surface muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #9
Wow. oldironside Jun 2013 #10
Another picture here dipsydoodle Jun 2013 #11
Link with more text (and one more pic) ... eppur_se_muova Jun 2013 #12

oldironside

(1,248 posts)
1. Said to be in remarkable condition,
Fri May 3, 2013, 10:05 AM
May 2013

but that's very much an open question at the moment. The general consensus on the aviation forums I frequent is that sand and salt water are the worst possible things for preserving an aluminium airframe and that it's possible that what they've got there is not much more than an imprint in the sand. It could be that as soon as they try to lift it it will crumble away. That was the fate of the Focke Wulf 200 raised from a fjord a few years ago under seemignly more favourable conditions.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/restaurierung-die-tage-der-condor-1.590905

As soon as they got it out of the water it collapsed, and the restorers can only use 20% of the old airframe. Less a restoration, more a rebuild.

Still, it would be lovely to actually have an original Do17Z. It's the only one of the main Battle of Britain types that is extinct. this one is particularly important historically becuase it was actually shot down during the battle by the otherwise less than stellar Boulton Paul Defiant.

oldironside

(1,248 posts)
3. In general you may be right,
Fri May 3, 2013, 01:53 PM
May 2013

but I think they'll take a slightly more sophisticated approach. They ain't gonna go to B&Q.

This is a link to some photos of the Condor project. It looks pretty impressive, but they have been working since 1999.

http://www.dlbs.de/en/Projects/Focke-Wulf-Condor/index.php

oldironside

(1,248 posts)
5. I was under the impression
Fri May 3, 2013, 02:34 PM
May 2013

it was destined for the IWM collection at Duxford, but I've just had a quick check, and it's actually going to the RAF Museum at Cosford for preservation, and then probably to Hendon for display. The fashion these days is just to stabilise them so they can be displayed, rather than restored to pristine, factory new condition. Witness the Halifax here that sat in a Norwegian lake for thirty odd years. They started by restoring the nose turret and then had a sort of "Bollocks, leave it as it is" moment.



Some people argue that it's a fitting memorial to their crews, but I'd prefer to see something other than a pile of scrap on a pile of shingle. Still, what does my opinion matter?

Back to the Dornier. I'm sure there are German museums that would like it (the Luftwaffe Museum at Gatow and the Flugwerft at Oberschleißheim in Bavaria spring to mind) but it's not going to be returned to its former owners. Finders keepers, like the 109 at Duxford. This display could be described as insult to injury. They even went as far as adding Private Pike.


dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
6. Its clear now - its going to RAF Hendon
Sat May 4, 2013, 09:25 AM
May 2013

Work has begun to raise the only surviving German World War II Dornier 17 bomber from its watery grave at Goodwin Sands, off the Kent coast.

The aircraft has been lying in 50ft of water in the English Channel since being shot down more than 70 years ago during the Battle of Britain.

It was first spotted by divers in 2008 and the project will be the biggest recovery of its kind in British waters.

The salvage operation is expected to take about three weeks.

It is the start of a two-year restoration project by the RAF Museum in Hendon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22411430

oldironside

(1,248 posts)
7. So, good luck to the team.
Sat May 4, 2013, 04:26 PM
May 2013

I hope they get it up in once piece, but my head says it will be extremely unlikely.

The final example I'll give is a Blackburn Skua from another Norwegian fjord. It's about a third of the size of the Dornier, was in better condition, but still broke in two as they raised it.





Fingers crossed.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,294 posts)
9. And they've got it up to the surface
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:46 PM
Jun 2013
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22848117

They abandoned the idea of a frame, and just stuck a spar through the fuselage, and attached cables directly to the plane.

oldironside

(1,248 posts)
10. Wow.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:04 PM
Jun 2013

I'm amazed and delighted it came up in more or less one piece, given that they used the spar rather than the lifting frame. The last time I checked they'd pumped the sand out of the fuselage and engine nacelles, but the wing outer sections were still full. It's a bit of a tribute to the Dornier company that the wings stayed on and the fuselage didn't collapse. The fittings and what they are attached to have been immersed in salt water for a long time, and they took all the weight of wings, engines and sand filling as the thing was lifted. You can see how the wings are attached from this photo.



A really magnificent job from all involved, and two fingers up to the nay sayers who seemed to want it to fail. "It'll crumble into dust", "It'll collapse as soon as they get it out of the water". Err, no it won't.

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