Weird News
Related: About this forumAlexander Calder's grandson dismayed as another artist uses sculpture for his own art
After hearing complaints about an ArtPrize entry that put flowers on Alexander Calders big red sculpture, the city sought an opinion from the late artists foundation.
The response: its awful.
In a scathing Sept. 23 reply to a city inquiry earlier that day, Calders grandson said ArtPrize entrant David Doddes Fleurs et riviere reflects an utter lack of understanding and respect for his grandfathers original work.
Foundation President Alexander S. C. Rower also labeled public discussion about the Calder flowers which the city highlighted as a success of Doddes work a failure that contributes nothing to humanitys understanding of Calders La Grande Vitesse or the role of public art in general.
http://www.mlive.com/artprize/index.ssf/2013/09/calders_grandson_calls_artprize_flowers_an_abomination.html
The flowers aren't supposed to be here:
UPDATE: Just to follow up on a couple of comments... to someone from outside the Grand Rapids area, it might not be much to look at, but in Grand Rapids, it's a well-known - and defining - landmark. I guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)The response from the Calder Foundation couldn't have been more condescending and arrogant.
I am not surprised to hear from you, as we too have received dozens of messages surrounding this controversy.
The history of art has been enriched on multiple occasions by temporary interventions or responses to masterpieces by fellow artists; however, its success rests on the intellectual rigor of the dialogue and the intervener's deep understanding of the original work. I regret that neither applies to this unfortunate example.
The addition of poorly rendered imitation Warhol flowers to Calder's magnificent La Grande Vitesse contributes nothing to humanity's understanding of Calder, Warhol, or the role of public art. The public "discussion" surrounding this abomination, which you mention as an element of the project's success, fails to address these issues.
We had chosen to remain silent about this provincial happenstance, as the initiative is luckily temporary and reflects an utter lack of understanding and respect of Calder's genius.
Sincerely,
Alexander S. C. Rower
President
If this had been a permanent change to the sculpture, or if it somehow harmed it, then it would have been an "abomination". But putting some temporary stickers on a piece of art that has been outside in the elements for decades is hardly going to cause any damage.
I bet this is the most attention that sculpture has received in the four decades since it was installed.
I can't help wondering if this had happened to a public sculpture in New York, if the reaction might have been different. In New York it would be seen as an important work by an edgy up-and-coming new artist, but in Grand Rapids it's the work of a hayseed in flyover country who displays "an utter lack of understanding and respect of Calder's genius".
Maybe he doesn't understand Calder. But he sure understands the douchebags that hold sway in the art world.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)There is no damage done here, except to arrogance and pride. I'd call that great performance art via stickers.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)it's history in the city of Grand Rapids. Perhaps we should dress the
Mona Lisa in a house dress too?
Or let's just Target over the entire Art landscape so some witless artist and a committee of stupid people can just re invent the artists true intentions. In fact lets just plant daisy's all over DU and make everybody happy.
No one should wallpaper over an artist's original work. Unless of course you'd care to rewrite the great novels in homie talk or take the inspiring poems of poets who surely write far better than you and I and turn them into wrapping paper. After all we all know how tiresome real music by the Masters is compared to the elevator drivel we're forced to listen to all the time.
This is a hayseed idea in or out of NY. Sorry you can't appreciate the difference between the real thing and a tablecloth.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Did you miss the part about it's temporary?
And yes, you just discussed most of the issues and questions the artwork is about. Apparently it is successful.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)You take a bag full of stickers or some other temporary thing and plaster them all over the art. See how well that works for you.
You'll be an artist! Or not, to the people who came to see the original Art for its value to them.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)When I wrote my previous posts, I assumed that the artist asked permission. I was wrong. It turns out that he was invited to do it. Furthermore, this is not the first time that an artist has been invited to do an installation on the Calder piece. They asked another artist to do it in 2012.
And, for what it's worth, the letter does not give the impression that the Calder Foundation is objecting to the fact that the installation could have somehow damaged the piece. Nor are they objecting to the idea of another artist doing an installation involving Calder's sculpture. Their objection is that they think it is bad art.
(By the way, in my reading, I learned that the flowers are attached with magnets. Presumably this was done in order to avoid harming the Calder.)
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)out of the Calder, he had the option of making his own replica Calder with some tacky plywood and tempura paint and attaching his own flowers to that with or without the magnets. And hey, maybe he could have hired some local preschoolers to help him.
The fact that he was invited to place them on the original Calder merely highlights the stupidity of the people who gave the permission in the first place. Hence, the letter from the Calder Foundation. So what? Isn't it their job to mind the integrity of the works of Art by their guy? Here is an Art Prize competition that proposes to play stick em' up with a world class piece of Art. Wow. What a way to advance the cause of Art in GR, let alone any city.
Frankly Skinner, that letter is nothing. Why you are so incensed by the letter is beyond me. My arguments may be useless to you but your point of view of equally superfluous to me. The "history" that you are missing in your research is the fact that the Calder has been a source of contention forever in this city between the heads who view art only as fully clothed Athenian figures and those, like myself, who view Art as progressive, moving, and powerful. That is Calder and that is this sculpture. To reduce it to the likes of a bus poster is unbelievable. And I don't need a letter from any foundation to tell me that. But if that is what got the job done (which I highly doubt), so be it.
The only thing that is offensive in this flap is the very artist who thinks his magnetized flowers are the only thing to call people's attention to the Calder. No ego there. No, not at all.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)I just think the strong whiff of condescension makes the Calder Foundation look kinda like those people "who view art only as fully clothed Athenian figures." After all, Calder is part of the canon now.
On a related note, this is one of the better discussions I've had on DU in a long time. I don't know if the credit goes to the dude with the magnetic flowers or to the Calder Foundation. But somehow I managed to get drawn into an extended conversation about a topic (art) that I don't often discuss.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)the older, less 'new' Athenian crowd to those who read about him and his work. His art is about spirit and industry and strength. Its about movement and power. If the Foundation is not about protecting that then they have no reason to represent Alexander Calder. Calder never would have imagined the hippie flowers. Probably would have laughed and then he would have sued to have his sculpture removed. You can be sure of one thing, artist's will be putting in even more little clauses in the sale of their art going forward that prevent commercialized attempts to distort their vision.
Art Prize, like most things, has become very political. I have no doubt the DeVos family is mixed up in this debacle in some way. This was intended to call attention to the Art Prize venues. The sad part is, the families in Grand Rapids have been enjoying and honoring the sculpture far longer than any of these fools-which Calder would have approved of.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)I've had guards tell me to put away my magnifying glass in a museum. My travel involves lots of museum visits and they are all very serious about potential threats to art works...
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)CTyankee
(63,902 posts)and cry in front of pictures.
And then there's the famous story of Stendahl getting overwhelmed and having to be helped out of Santa Croce. Florentine physicians call it "stendahlismo" and report about a dozen or so of such incidents in Florence each year...
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)the works themselves. Sounds like you have a very interesting occupation.
Sometimes in a museum or in places with public art, I just don't want to leave the art. I want to stay and think and watch it longer. Or watch the people watching it.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)I had the hardest time pulling myself away from "View of Delft" in the Mauritshuis in The Hague. I couldn't figure out what mesmerized me so much. Found out later that Vermeer mix ground glass in his paint and it had the effect of catching the light and making it glisten. It is said that when Dali visited it, he sank to his knees...
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)My family was in DC this past summer and we saw a fantastic photo display of war at the Corcoran Museum. It was amazing.
How wonderful for you to have enjoyed so much of the art of the world or in the world.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)I'm fortunate to be able to drive up to Boston for the MFA and the Gardner and hop on a train to NYC for a day trip. I save like crazy for those trips to European museums...
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)CTyankee
(63,902 posts)I get some pretty good bargains with their trips...I've done my own, but theirs are pretty wonderful. I'm doing a trip to Tuscany on the Piero della Francesca Trail in March...looks great!
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Skinner
(63,645 posts)...over the original. That would be absurd. My point was that the Calder Foundation could not possibly sound more arrogant and condescending.
The artistic merit of the installation itself is one thing. Completely separate from that is the completely over-the-top reaction which the installation elicited from the Calder Foundation, which makes them look like a snooty caricature of how people expect the art world to be. The response to the installation is better than the actual installation itself. Makes me almost wish the artist had created the installation intending for it to happen.
For what it's worth: Whoever gave the green light to this installation made a huge blunder by not clearing it with the Calder Foundation first. That was dumb. But as long as the installation does not harm the original, I think the Calder Foundation does itself -- and Alexander Calder -- a disservice with their ridiculous response.
(By the way: I have been to Grand Rapids and I have seen the original.)
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Completely unnecessary butchering of this piece that has meant so much to this city for the sake of of a "discussion" about Art clearly shows the need of protection. Fine art is not beyond the understanding of anyone.
Suggest you return to GR again one day as you clearly did not see the sculpture for its true intent.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)individuality and should be protected. As for the Foundation's response, I think art biographer Peter Robb described the art world best: "high stakes and bitchy" (I would rephrase it in the non-sexist "high stakes and pissy." . A red flag went up with me with its term "provincial," so I understand what you are saying. Since I do a lot of art research, this kind of (as you put it) "snooty caricature" seems typical to me (and throughout the ages!). It's just the way they are.
And in other news, Yale was beating Cornell 24-17 when I left the Bowl two minutes before the game was over today...
Skinner
(63,645 posts)Seems kinda like a "tell" to me.
I like the phrase "high stakes and pissy". I suspect it may have something to do with the subjective nature of art. To succeed, one must be able to create the object and also create the myth surrounding the object.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)even among the geniuses! Brunelleschi pissing off Donatello over his wooden crucifix, Bernini and Moschi bickering at the newly redesigned St. Peter's Basilica, Turner publicly spiting Constable at the
Royal Academy...and over some of the most transcendent, beautiful and important works of art in the Western canon...
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)because English audiences of that day couldn't bear the thought of Cordelia dying. I forget which major writer of that era did it, but evidently, it was considered okay then. That kinda makes you wince...
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)putting Hippie Flowers on the hand printed inks the monks labored over for generations. They probably didn't either.
They created their own art. This guy should too.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)"I'd rather apologize than ask permission" type...but maybe they really wanted to go forward with the flower thing and thought the Foundation might try to stop them...it was a dumb move...
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)CTyankee
(63,902 posts)What I wonder is why they didn't encourage an artist to do a separate rendering of his/her own vision of La Grande Vitesse? After all, Picasso did his own cubistic version of Manet's "Dejeuner sur l'Herbe and Delacroix's "Women of Algiers."
Not to mention Velasquez' Las Meninas:
http://www.artnews.com/2012/10/10/contemporary-artists-redo-old-master/
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)was a huge controversy about repainting the Calder, (sorry, just in the habit of saying that). And I think they did paint it a color that was more orange than red and that led to a lot of discussion. If remember correctly, they did repaint the sculpture its original hue.
I ran across this article which from the sounds of things you could probably comment on better than I, but it seems to hit on all the important points.
ANOTHER LOOK AT
LA GRANDE VITESSE
Jennifer Geigel Mikulay
Public Art Dialogue, Vol. 1, Issue 1, March 2011, 523
http://www.academia.edu/648844/Another_Look_at_La_Grande_Vitesse
"Alexander Calders La Grande Vitesse(1969), the first public artwork commissioned by the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA), today stands at the center of a dynamic social surround. Unfortunately, scholars have not yet adequately addressed the festivals, rallies, protests, weddings, and myriad quotidian uses that activate the sculpture. However, this social life surrounding La Grande Vitesse is what demonstrates its lasting vitality and,more generally,the power of public art as a form of address."
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)I did a Friday Afternoon Challenge recently on "pro publico" art. It is a fascinating subject in art history, is it not?
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)for anything new in GR unless it had the name of G. Ford on it somewhere. He was what he was but he was a good public servant to the town. Over the last twenty years money has come into town and there are many more recreational venues than in days gone by.
During my youth, I used to skip class at the local Catholic High School to watch the whores on Division St., eat lunch at Herpolshiemers Department Store with the older blue haired ladies or cruise over to the local library and look at books or talk to the bums in the lobby. The whores are uptown now, Herp's is long closed and the bums have a Hotel and Homeless Shelter they hang out in now.
Maybe the cave men/women or the Egyptians had some "protective" art issues at one time too.
MADem
(135,425 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)and a lot of the statuary around London was "modified" temporarily for the games.
And those are also original works of art.
No harm, no foul, is my POV.
People who never heard of Calder now know who he is. People who thought that thing was an abandoned eyesore now know it's a sculpture.
A win - win, to my mind.
Response to Skinner (Reply #1)
Post removed
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Art Prize comes from Amway pyramid scheme money, the same people who finance the hardest right of American politics. Erik Prince's sister married into the clan.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Basically, this letter is saying "You dumbass rubes don't know nuttin!!!!!"
One of my ancestors was a well known architect. Another was a famous-in-his-time actor. I would not, ever--not even for a moment--presume to speak for them, as though I knew their mind, their goals, their purpose. I'm just thrilled to be related to them, even if it was a long time ago.
I think anyone who presumes to speak for the dead are....what's the phrase? Full of shit! Yeah, that's the ticket!!!
For all we know, the sculptor might have looked at that addition and said "Shit--just what the tired old thing needs!"
valerief
(53,235 posts)JoeyT
(6,785 posts)apparently made the thing come to life and attack an orphanage. It's almost always funny when someone reacts that violently to something that trivial and transient. "Abomination" indeed.
tclambert
(11,085 posts)That's some kind of art rule, isn't it?
chicago's picasso was an abomination for several years before it became a beloved landmark.
the art world sucks. and runs on drugs and alcohol, for the most part, lest anyone think this stuff is all up and up. so glad to be a farmer.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)And yet there are folks like me who will travel all over whenever I can to see the stuff. I think it is the pursuit of beauty and truth. But there is beauty and truth in farming, IMHO. As a farmer, you are a creator of such beauty, along with nature which you cultivate even as a painter creates an image or a sculptor works a living, beautiful shape into being...
A lovely back story on Chicago's Picasso here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Picasso
mopinko
(70,077 posts)i pick vegetables to grow based on their color. party it is accidental. most hot pepper turn out to be beautiful, but i seem to have found an amazing number of pretty colored beans. and a dreamcicle orange watermelon.
it's keeping me out of trouble, anyway.
the art world always has sucked, tho. for every artist supported by the medici, lord knows how many starved. lord knows how deeply those artists bowed for their supper.
and from the wiki- this para nearly killed me-
Newspaper columnist Mike Royko, covering the unveiling of the sculpture, wrote: Interesting design, Im sure. But the fact is, it has a long stupid face and looks like some giant insect that is about to eat a smaller, weaker insect. Royko did credit Picasso with understanding the soul of Chicago. Its eyes are like the eyes of every slum owner who made a buck off the small and weak. And of every building inspector who took a wad from a slum owner to make it all possible.... Youd think hed been riding the L all his life.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)One of the great cuisines of the world to me is Turkish food. The food is absolutely gorgeous and the colors are vivid, combined beautifully and deliciously. The flavors are subtle and divine. We have two superb Turkish restaurants in a nearby town that has grown a vibrant Turkish community. I tutor many Turkish women as a literacy volunteer. I have learned a lot from these women about their culture.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)Right or wrong, they were always intriguing.
mopinko
(70,077 posts)the saddest part about that is that he was an interesting commentator before he joined the trib. and his commentary on the mob, and their influence in chicago was great. but now he is just a kneejerk toady.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I like the structure that Calder designed. The flowers don't belong there.
I suppose art is a matter of taste, but the flowers look cheap. The original sculpture looked interesting.
It's a shame that someone tries to pass adding these hideous flowers off as art. It's not.
Vestigial_Sister
(182 posts)would have no problem with some clown painting a puka shell necklace on the Mona Lisa either.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)That is all.
MsInformed
(48 posts)Harumph!
Mass
(27,315 posts)I cant say I like what he did, but it is TEMPORARY and I agree with Skinner that the answer from the Calder foundation shows a level of superiority that is bugging.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)for the Arts. In addition the Calder family, disliked on this thread, refused to attend the ceremony two months after Calder's death, to award him the Presidential Medal of Freedom as a protest to call for amnesty for draft resisters of the Vietnam era. Very bad people, some here say. Bad, bad anti war artists who spoke their minds when asked.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)That letter was over the top RUDE. For people with their noses so far up in the air, they've got no damned class, IMO.
The thing is exposed to the elements, the modification is temporary and designed to spur discussion, which it did quite successfully.
I put the stodgy art-farts in the "blowhard" category.
And the National Endowment has funded both hits AND misses...so they're hardly an arbiter in this business.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)but beyond that, doesn't a work of art by an artist have its own integrity?
And also, I have to laugh that so many are taking this in such a huffy way? C'mon...
MADem
(135,425 posts)If they're so worried about their franchise and their integrity, they should have been part of the selection process, and/or they should have kept a sufficiently tight rein on the use of the thing so this could never have happened in the first place. Frankly, if they don't want people to mess with it, maybe they should regard Grampa's art as "art," and not a business.
I think the huffy folks are the Calder Foundation clowns. I think the derivative artist's comments are probably closer to the mark, and I think all that "abomination" stuff sounds very "fundamentalist" and "assholish" frankly.
Works of art don't have their own integrity when they become part and parcel of pop culture. Frankly, though I know people regard it as "iconic," I think that sculpture is fug-LEEE, and the stupid little seventies-style flowers improve the thing--if only for a brief moment in time!
In any event, they're going to leave it up long enough for the artist's child to see it: http://www.mlive.com/artprize/index.ssf/2013/09/why_calder_flowers_now_will_stay_into_artprizes_final_week.html#incart_river_default
Examples of art that have entered the larger cultural mindset, and no longer have their own integrity (and no one asked permission or even cared what the artist's descendants might think, either):
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)in the art world! "Huffy"? All throughout the ages, artists and critics have been downright pissy toward each other. Art history is full of such sniping!
As to your examples of "derivatives" of famous art, these were not done to TO an original art work. If the Grand Rapids folks had wanted such a thing, the artist could have done his own interpretation. After all, Picasso "redid" masterpieces of Velazquez and Manet cubistically and nobody fussed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)owned the thing. It's like putting clothing on well known statues, which someone did a while back (and he is making a fortune off of it, too):
http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/artist-dresses-classic-statues-hipster-clothing-8C11133474
But until that book is ready, prints are available of the existing images, ranging from $1,065 for a 24x36-inch piece to nearly $6,000 for a life-size copy. The art comes mounted in Diasec plexiglass, and is signed, numbered and ready to display.
"Hipster in Stone" will be on exhibit in Paris in October, and New York and London next year.
I think people need to lighten up. No ugly ass sculpture was harmed in the process, and the temporary installation actually got people to talk about and notice the piece. A lot like those statues, which, to me, are hilarious, and resemble some old hippies I used to know back in the day!
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)There IS a difference!
And again, as I've said earlier in this thread I believe that the actual work has its own individuality and, I might add, its own integrity. So leave the real thing as it is, as the artist intended it to be. While the sculpture, whatever your opinion of it, was not scratched or dented, its very being was violated. The offending artist could have used another medium to show what he would like to do with Calder's original. It would show some respect for Calder and still get his idea across.
MADem
(135,425 posts)is its iconic imagery. He's "pooping on" the artist's vision.
Also, the sculpture isn't a painting in a frame in a museum. It gets rained on, snowed on, and pooped on by birds. If it were sheltered in a museum up on a pedestal that would be one thing, but any old pigeon or bluebird is free to "violate" that thing all the live-long day.
If you want actual statues dressed, here's some that the City of London modified for the Olympics:
That's FDR on the left wearing a SPAM hat....Churchill on the right in a bowler...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180979/Hats-London-s-iconic-statues-2012-inspired-makeover-honour-Olympics.html
The world doesn't end if someone has a bit of fun with city art. It's not like someone painted the stuff blue and ruined it.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)I doubt if anyone would try it on the David (which was once outside), even tho I think I read somewhere that even that iconic sculpture once had a fig leaf placed over David's genitalia...
MADem
(135,425 posts)A flasher coat might be too much of a social commentary, these days...!
MsInformed
(48 posts)No such thing as bad publicity, especially for Grand Rapid's Calder.
Iggo
(47,549 posts)Tien1985
(920 posts)Done with permission. Eh. They sound like pretentious asshats, but if it makes them happy to be so, I guess they should carry on.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)sofa king
(10,857 posts)The two of them were at least as silly and mischievous in their own day.
I do not think either Alexander Calder or Marcel Duchamp would have taken offense to this gesture. Instead, they probably would have found it amusing and rather in keeping with their own whimsical approaches to art.
MADem
(135,425 posts)IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)Having been lucky enough to travel a bit and live for extended periods in both NYC and Los Angeles, I benefited greatly from exposure to art at some of the world's great museums, which I consider almost holy in nature.
The best interpretation of a Ruebens I ever heard, though, was uttered by my 2-yr-old son as we faced a huge painting of a nude reclining on a couch, only partly draped by white cloth. He took his thumb out of his mouth and announced, "Look, mommy - that lady's getting her diapers changed!" Brought the house down, he did.
But when the King Tut exhibit reached L.A., I experienced an epiphany. Of course I'd seen beautiful depictions of the mask all my life, and I knew it would be breathtaking. When I faced the real thing, however, it mesmerized me. Once the limited time was up, a smiling guard came over and gently took me by the arm to lead me away. I complied readily enough, but I walked backward at her side, staring as long as possible. It was like the thing had magical powers.
CTyankee
(63,902 posts)sofa king
(10,857 posts)...perhaps back in the '80s, tore up a Matisse sketch on video tape and presented it as performance art. If the point is to infuriate and disappoint, then mission accomplished, I guess.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)Sorry I can't call to mind the exact details, but it's either in San Francisco or Seattle (I think) where there's a tall bronze statue of a man meant to represent the workers of America and the rest of the world, really.
So one time after an especially odious GOP anti-union attack, the artist went back and hung heavy chains on the statue on Labor Day. The city removed them but his point had been made.
Anyone in possession of the true details is cordially invited to rap my memory. My West Coast days were back in the stone age of my youth.