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UrbScotty

(23,980 posts)
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 02:22 PM Sep 2013

Alexander Calder's grandson dismayed as another artist uses sculpture for his own art

After hearing complaints about an ArtPrize entry that put flowers on Alexander Calder’s big red sculpture, the city sought an opinion from the late artist’s foundation.

The response: it’s awful.

In a scathing Sept. 23 reply to a city inquiry earlier that day, Calder’s grandson said ArtPrize entrant David Dodde’s “Fleurs et riviere” “reflects an utter lack of understanding and respect” for his grandfather’s original work.

Foundation President Alexander S. C. Rower also labeled public discussion about the Calder flowers – which the city highlighted as a success of Dodde’s work – a failure that “contributes nothing to humanity’s understanding” of Calder’s “La Grande Vitesse” or the role of public art in general.


http://www.mlive.com/artprize/index.ssf/2013/09/calders_grandson_calls_artprize_flowers_an_abomination.html

The flowers aren't supposed to be here:



UPDATE: Just to follow up on a couple of comments... to someone from outside the Grand Rapids area, it might not be much to look at, but in Grand Rapids, it's a well-known - and defining - landmark. I guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.
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Alexander Calder's grandson dismayed as another artist uses sculpture for his own art (Original Post) UrbScotty Sep 2013 OP
It looks like the artist who put the flowers on there punked the stodgy, pretentious art world. Skinner Sep 2013 #1
Hear, hear. Daemonaquila Sep 2013 #3
Well it's clear you've never seen it Skinner, nor are you aware of MichiganVote Sep 2013 #6
Hunh? Hissyspit Sep 2013 #7
Next time you visit an art installation, spose' MichiganVote Sep 2013 #13
Except this isn't a case of someone slapping stickers on a work of art without permission. Skinner Sep 2013 #19
And it is bad Art. If the guy wanted to make a flower child MichiganVote Sep 2013 #27
I'm not incensed by the letter. Skinner Sep 2013 #30
:) Yes, good discussion. But no, Alexander Calder will never be part of MichiganVote Sep 2013 #39
You can be thrown out of some museums for pulling out a little bottle of water... CTyankee Sep 2013 #22
My son is an archivist, he could tell you stories. MichiganVote Sep 2013 #40
I always like to talk to the guards, too. I often ask them if they have many people who break down CTyankee Sep 2013 #43
Ah! That is interesting. Sometimes the stories about art or artists surpass MichiganVote Sep 2013 #45
Oh, I'm retired. I'm just obsessed with art. CTyankee Sep 2013 #46
That's awesome. If money were no object, I would visit as many great museums as I could. MichiganVote Sep 2013 #48
I live pretty modestly, drive an old car, stick to a budget, don't buy many clothes... CTyankee Sep 2013 #49
Someday Europe...I have been to Boston and NY. MichiganVote Sep 2013 #52
Try www.roadscholar.org if you are 45 or older... CTyankee Sep 2013 #53
Thanks! n/t MichiganVote Sep 2013 #54
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that this temporary installation was an improvement... Skinner Sep 2013 #8
Protecting Art is not as simple as it sounds. Given the MichiganVote Sep 2013 #15
I dunno, Skinner...I kinda think once a work has left the hands of an artist, it has its own CTyankee Sep 2013 #20
I agree about the word "provincial". Skinner Sep 2013 #31
Actually, you'd be surprised how petty sounding some of the sniping in the art world gets... CTyankee Sep 2013 #32
I once learned that in the 17th century, the last act of Shakespeare's "King Lear" was rewritten CTyankee Sep 2013 #21
And the Bible has been re written how many times? Never thought about MichiganVote Sep 2013 #29
I really don't know what the folks in Grand Rapids were thinking...maybe they were of the CTyankee Sep 2013 #33
Somebody's idea of a way to call attention to Art Prize. MichiganVote Sep 2013 #38
Well, I wondered that, too. But that seems like a pretty crass thing to do. CTyankee Sep 2013 #41
I don't know how many years ago it was, but I recall that there MichiganVote Sep 2013 #47
That is an interesting piece. I loved it. CTyankee Sep 2013 #50
Glad you liked it. I used to call it Bland Rapids. It was impossible MichiganVote Sep 2013 #51
Mona Lisa is a popular subject for art parody, so that's probably not a 'best' example... MADem Sep 2013 #63
And so has the Calder. But not the original work of art. That's just wrong. MichiganVote Oct 2013 #71
Well, the statues in Trafalgar square were dressed up for the Olympics, MADem Oct 2013 #72
Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #14
Absolutely correct. But of course he wouldn't be stodgy about it. Right? MichiganVote Sep 2013 #16
+1 Octafish Sep 2013 #36
Wow--- this provincial happenstance!!!!!!!!! MADem Sep 2013 #42
Looks pretty ugly with or without flowers. nt valerief Sep 2013 #2
To hear the guy talk, those flower stickers JoeyT Sep 2013 #4
If somebody calls it an abomination, it must be great art. tclambert Sep 2013 #5
yes. mopinko Sep 2013 #25
well, then, the art world has always sucked. CTyankee Sep 2013 #34
it has become a bit of a joke that mopinko Sep 2013 #35
color is so important to the human palate (just as it is to the artist's palette). CTyankee Sep 2013 #37
LOL WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #56
I miss reading Royko almost as much as Terkel. IrishAyes Sep 2013 #58
and to replace him with john cass- mopinko Sep 2013 #61
I think that the flowers are gaudy and ugly. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #9
sounds like most of you... Vestigial_Sister Sep 2013 #10
The flower at the bottom right looks like a penis. Flying Squirrel Sep 2013 #11
Flaccid art! MsInformed Sep 2013 #24
Seems it reached its goal. Mass Sep 2013 #12
Calder’s “La Grande Vitesse” was the first public sculpture funded by the National Endowment Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #17
+1 MichiganVote Sep 2013 #18
One can do a single good thing, and then do a very stupid thing---nearly forty years later. MADem Sep 2013 #44
The Calder foundation was protecting its "franchise" which it has every right to do... CTyankee Sep 2013 #60
The derivative artist had permission from the city, though, according to the article. MADem Sep 2013 #62
The city did a dumb thing. They should have known better, but, ah, the follies CTyankee Oct 2013 #65
The guy put a few magnetic flowers on an ugly ass sculpture, with permission of the people who MADem Oct 2013 #66
I think that's great! But again, you realized these are Photoshopped, right? CTyankee Oct 2013 #67
But he's using the essential essence of the work--the thing that makes the statue special MADem Oct 2013 #69
these are fun, I agree! CTyankee Oct 2013 #70
I think it's hilarious when they put him in a speedo, or what-have-you.... MADem Oct 2013 #73
Hawaiian shirt Friday? MsInformed Sep 2013 #23
Looks like shit. Iggo Sep 2013 #26
It's not permanent and it was Tien1985 Sep 2013 #28
So bad in so many ways. WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #55
Calder and his pal Duchamp are chuckling. sofa king Sep 2013 #57
I'm with you!!! nt MADem Sep 2013 #64
Can't say I approve altering masterpieces at all. IrishAyes Sep 2013 #59
I had the same experience with Vermeer's View of Delft... CTyankee Oct 2013 #68
I remember some a-hole... sofa king Oct 2013 #74
Well, there was one later alteration by the artist himself that I appreciated on one occasion. IrishAyes Oct 2013 #75

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
1. It looks like the artist who put the flowers on there punked the stodgy, pretentious art world.
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 02:44 PM
Sep 2013

The response from the Calder Foundation couldn't have been more condescending and arrogant.

Dear Ms. White,

I am not surprised to hear from you, as we too have received dozens of messages surrounding this controversy.

The history of art has been enriched on multiple occasions by temporary interventions or responses to masterpieces by fellow artists; however, its success rests on the intellectual rigor of the dialogue and the intervener's deep understanding of the original work. I regret that neither applies to this unfortunate example.

The addition of poorly rendered imitation Warhol flowers to Calder's magnificent La Grande Vitesse contributes nothing to humanity's understanding of Calder, Warhol, or the role of public art. The public "discussion" surrounding this abomination, which you mention as an element of the project's success, fails to address these issues.

We had chosen to remain silent about this provincial happenstance, as the initiative is luckily temporary and reflects an utter lack of understanding and respect of Calder's genius.

Sincerely,

Alexander S. C. Rower
President

If this had been a permanent change to the sculpture, or if it somehow harmed it, then it would have been an "abomination". But putting some temporary stickers on a piece of art that has been outside in the elements for decades is hardly going to cause any damage.

I bet this is the most attention that sculpture has received in the four decades since it was installed.

I can't help wondering if this had happened to a public sculpture in New York, if the reaction might have been different. In New York it would be seen as an important work by an edgy up-and-coming new artist, but in Grand Rapids it's the work of a hayseed in flyover country who displays "an utter lack of understanding and respect of Calder's genius".

Maybe he doesn't understand Calder. But he sure understands the douchebags that hold sway in the art world.
 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
3. Hear, hear.
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 04:22 PM
Sep 2013

There is no damage done here, except to arrogance and pride. I'd call that great performance art via stickers.

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
6. Well it's clear you've never seen it Skinner, nor are you aware of
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 10:03 PM
Sep 2013

it's history in the city of Grand Rapids. Perhaps we should dress the
Mona Lisa in a house dress too?

Or let's just Target over the entire Art landscape so some witless artist and a committee of stupid people can just re invent the artists true intentions. In fact lets just plant daisy's all over DU and make everybody happy.

No one should wallpaper over an artist's original work. Unless of course you'd care to rewrite the great novels in homie talk or take the inspiring poems of poets who surely write far better than you and I and turn them into wrapping paper. After all we all know how tiresome real music by the Masters is compared to the elevator drivel we're forced to listen to all the time.

This is a hayseed idea in or out of NY. Sorry you can't appreciate the difference between the real thing and a tablecloth.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
7. Hunh?
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 10:40 PM
Sep 2013

Did you miss the part about it's temporary?

And yes, you just discussed most of the issues and questions the artwork is about. Apparently it is successful.

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
13. Next time you visit an art installation, spose'
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:21 AM
Sep 2013

You take a bag full of stickers or some other temporary thing and plaster them all over the art. See how well that works for you.

You'll be an artist! Or not, to the people who came to see the original Art for its value to them.

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
19. Except this isn't a case of someone slapping stickers on a work of art without permission.
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 02:26 PM
Sep 2013

When I wrote my previous posts, I assumed that the artist asked permission. I was wrong. It turns out that he was invited to do it. Furthermore, this is not the first time that an artist has been invited to do an installation on the Calder piece. They asked another artist to do it in 2012.

And, for what it's worth, the letter does not give the impression that the Calder Foundation is objecting to the fact that the installation could have somehow damaged the piece. Nor are they objecting to the idea of another artist doing an installation involving Calder's sculpture. Their objection is that they think it is bad art.

(By the way, in my reading, I learned that the flowers are attached with magnets. Presumably this was done in order to avoid harming the Calder.)

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
27. And it is bad Art. If the guy wanted to make a flower child
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:27 PM
Sep 2013

out of the Calder, he had the option of making his own replica Calder with some tacky plywood and tempura paint and attaching his own flowers to that with or without the magnets. And hey, maybe he could have hired some local preschoolers to help him.

The fact that he was invited to place them on the original Calder merely highlights the stupidity of the people who gave the permission in the first place. Hence, the letter from the Calder Foundation. So what? Isn't it their job to mind the integrity of the works of Art by their guy? Here is an Art Prize competition that proposes to play stick em' up with a world class piece of Art. Wow. What a way to advance the cause of Art in GR, let alone any city.

Frankly Skinner, that letter is nothing. Why you are so incensed by the letter is beyond me. My arguments may be useless to you but your point of view of equally superfluous to me. The "history" that you are missing in your research is the fact that the Calder has been a source of contention forever in this city between the heads who view art only as fully clothed Athenian figures and those, like myself, who view Art as progressive, moving, and powerful. That is Calder and that is this sculpture. To reduce it to the likes of a bus poster is unbelievable. And I don't need a letter from any foundation to tell me that. But if that is what got the job done (which I highly doubt), so be it.

The only thing that is offensive in this flap is the very artist who thinks his magnetized flowers are the only thing to call people's attention to the Calder. No ego there. No, not at all.

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
30. I'm not incensed by the letter.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:50 AM
Sep 2013

I just think the strong whiff of condescension makes the Calder Foundation look kinda like those people "who view art only as fully clothed Athenian figures." After all, Calder is part of the canon now.

On a related note, this is one of the better discussions I've had on DU in a long time. I don't know if the credit goes to the dude with the magnetic flowers or to the Calder Foundation. But somehow I managed to get drawn into an extended conversation about a topic (art) that I don't often discuss.

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
39. :) Yes, good discussion. But no, Alexander Calder will never be part of
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:16 PM
Sep 2013

the older, less 'new' Athenian crowd to those who read about him and his work. His art is about spirit and industry and strength. Its about movement and power. If the Foundation is not about protecting that then they have no reason to represent Alexander Calder. Calder never would have imagined the hippie flowers. Probably would have laughed and then he would have sued to have his sculpture removed. You can be sure of one thing, artist's will be putting in even more little clauses in the sale of their art going forward that prevent commercialized attempts to distort their vision.

Art Prize, like most things, has become very political. I have no doubt the DeVos family is mixed up in this debacle in some way. This was intended to call attention to the Art Prize venues. The sad part is, the families in Grand Rapids have been enjoying and honoring the sculpture far longer than any of these fools-which Calder would have approved of.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
22. You can be thrown out of some museums for pulling out a little bottle of water...
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 06:01 PM
Sep 2013

I've had guards tell me to put away my magnifying glass in a museum. My travel involves lots of museum visits and they are all very serious about potential threats to art works...

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
43. I always like to talk to the guards, too. I often ask them if they have many people who break down
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:44 PM
Sep 2013

and cry in front of pictures.

And then there's the famous story of Stendahl getting overwhelmed and having to be helped out of Santa Croce. Florentine physicians call it "stendahlismo" and report about a dozen or so of such incidents in Florence each year...

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
45. Ah! That is interesting. Sometimes the stories about art or artists surpass
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:56 PM
Sep 2013

the works themselves. Sounds like you have a very interesting occupation.

Sometimes in a museum or in places with public art, I just don't want to leave the art. I want to stay and think and watch it longer. Or watch the people watching it.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
46. Oh, I'm retired. I'm just obsessed with art.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:04 PM
Sep 2013

I had the hardest time pulling myself away from "View of Delft" in the Mauritshuis in The Hague. I couldn't figure out what mesmerized me so much. Found out later that Vermeer mix ground glass in his paint and it had the effect of catching the light and making it glisten. It is said that when Dali visited it, he sank to his knees...

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
48. That's awesome. If money were no object, I would visit as many great museums as I could.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:08 PM
Sep 2013

My family was in DC this past summer and we saw a fantastic photo display of war at the Corcoran Museum. It was amazing.

How wonderful for you to have enjoyed so much of the art of the world or in the world.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
49. I live pretty modestly, drive an old car, stick to a budget, don't buy many clothes...
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:37 PM
Sep 2013

I'm fortunate to be able to drive up to Boston for the MFA and the Gardner and hop on a train to NYC for a day trip. I save like crazy for those trips to European museums...

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
53. Try www.roadscholar.org if you are 45 or older...
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 07:28 PM
Sep 2013

I get some pretty good bargains with their trips...I've done my own, but theirs are pretty wonderful. I'm doing a trip to Tuscany on the Piero della Francesca Trail in March...looks great!

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
8. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that this temporary installation was an improvement...
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 11:10 PM
Sep 2013

...over the original. That would be absurd. My point was that the Calder Foundation could not possibly sound more arrogant and condescending.

The artistic merit of the installation itself is one thing. Completely separate from that is the completely over-the-top reaction which the installation elicited from the Calder Foundation, which makes them look like a snooty caricature of how people expect the art world to be. The response to the installation is better than the actual installation itself. Makes me almost wish the artist had created the installation intending for it to happen.

For what it's worth: Whoever gave the green light to this installation made a huge blunder by not clearing it with the Calder Foundation first. That was dumb. But as long as the installation does not harm the original, I think the Calder Foundation does itself -- and Alexander Calder -- a disservice with their ridiculous response.

(By the way: I have been to Grand Rapids and I have seen the original.)

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
15. Protecting Art is not as simple as it sounds. Given the
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:29 AM
Sep 2013

Completely unnecessary butchering of this piece that has meant so much to this city for the sake of of a "discussion" about Art clearly shows the need of protection. Fine art is not beyond the understanding of anyone.

Suggest you return to GR again one day as you clearly did not see the sculpture for its true intent.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
20. I dunno, Skinner...I kinda think once a work has left the hands of an artist, it has its own
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 03:29 PM
Sep 2013

individuality and should be protected. As for the Foundation's response, I think art biographer Peter Robb described the art world best: "high stakes and bitchy" (I would rephrase it in the non-sexist "high stakes and pissy.&quot . A red flag went up with me with its term "provincial," so I understand what you are saying. Since I do a lot of art research, this kind of (as you put it) "snooty caricature" seems typical to me (and throughout the ages!). It's just the way they are.

And in other news, Yale was beating Cornell 24-17 when I left the Bowl two minutes before the game was over today...

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
31. I agree about the word "provincial".
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:10 AM
Sep 2013

Seems kinda like a "tell" to me.

I like the phrase "high stakes and pissy". I suspect it may have something to do with the subjective nature of art. To succeed, one must be able to create the object and also create the myth surrounding the object.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
32. Actually, you'd be surprised how petty sounding some of the sniping in the art world gets...
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 07:45 AM
Sep 2013

even among the geniuses! Brunelleschi pissing off Donatello over his wooden crucifix, Bernini and Moschi bickering at the newly redesigned St. Peter's Basilica, Turner publicly spiting Constable at the
Royal Academy...and over some of the most transcendent, beautiful and important works of art in the Western canon...

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
21. I once learned that in the 17th century, the last act of Shakespeare's "King Lear" was rewritten
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 03:38 PM
Sep 2013

because English audiences of that day couldn't bear the thought of Cordelia dying. I forget which major writer of that era did it, but evidently, it was considered okay then. That kinda makes you wince...

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
29. And the Bible has been re written how many times? Never thought about
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:33 PM
Sep 2013

putting Hippie Flowers on the hand printed inks the monks labored over for generations. They probably didn't either.

They created their own art. This guy should too.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
33. I really don't know what the folks in Grand Rapids were thinking...maybe they were of the
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 07:51 AM
Sep 2013

"I'd rather apologize than ask permission" type...but maybe they really wanted to go forward with the flower thing and thought the Foundation might try to stop them...it was a dumb move...

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
41. Well, I wondered that, too. But that seems like a pretty crass thing to do.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:37 PM
Sep 2013

What I wonder is why they didn't encourage an artist to do a separate rendering of his/her own vision of La Grande Vitesse? After all, Picasso did his own cubistic version of Manet's "Dejeuner sur l'Herbe and Delacroix's "Women of Algiers."

Not to mention Velasquez' Las Meninas:
http://www.artnews.com/2012/10/10/contemporary-artists-redo-old-master/

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
47. I don't know how many years ago it was, but I recall that there
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:04 PM
Sep 2013

was a huge controversy about repainting the Calder, (sorry, just in the habit of saying that). And I think they did paint it a color that was more orange than red and that led to a lot of discussion. If remember correctly, they did repaint the sculpture its original hue.

I ran across this article which from the sounds of things you could probably comment on better than I, but it seems to hit on all the important points.

ANOTHER LOOK AT
LA GRANDE VITESSE
Jennifer Geigel Mikulay
Public Art Dialogue, Vol. 1, Issue 1, March 2011, 5–23

http://www.academia.edu/648844/Another_Look_at_La_Grande_Vitesse

"Alexander Calder’s La Grande Vitesse(1969), the first public artwork commissioned by the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA), today stands at the center of a dynamic social surround. Unfortunately, scholars have not yet adequately addressed the festivals, rallies, protests, weddings, and myriad quotidian uses that activate the sculpture. However, this “social life” surrounding La Grande Vitesse is what demonstrates its lasting vitality and,more generally,the power of public art as a form of address."

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
50. That is an interesting piece. I loved it.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 05:59 PM
Sep 2013

I did a Friday Afternoon Challenge recently on "pro publico" art. It is a fascinating subject in art history, is it not?

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
51. Glad you liked it. I used to call it Bland Rapids. It was impossible
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 06:17 PM
Sep 2013

for anything new in GR unless it had the name of G. Ford on it somewhere. He was what he was but he was a good public servant to the town. Over the last twenty years money has come into town and there are many more recreational venues than in days gone by.

During my youth, I used to skip class at the local Catholic High School to watch the whores on Division St., eat lunch at Herpolshiemers Department Store with the older blue haired ladies or cruise over to the local library and look at books or talk to the bums in the lobby. The whores are uptown now, Herp's is long closed and the bums have a Hotel and Homeless Shelter they hang out in now.

Maybe the cave men/women or the Egyptians had some "protective" art issues at one time too.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
72. Well, the statues in Trafalgar square were dressed up for the Olympics,
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:28 PM
Oct 2013

and a lot of the statuary around London was "modified" temporarily for the games.

And those are also original works of art.

No harm, no foul, is my POV.

People who never heard of Calder now know who he is. People who thought that thing was an abandoned eyesore now know it's a sculpture.

A win - win, to my mind.

Response to Skinner (Reply #1)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
36. +1
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 11:06 AM
Sep 2013

Art Prize comes from Amway pyramid scheme money, the same people who finance the hardest right of American politics. Erik Prince's sister married into the clan.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
42. Wow--- this provincial happenstance!!!!!!!!!
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:42 PM
Sep 2013

Basically, this letter is saying "You dumbass rubes don't know nuttin!!!!!"

One of my ancestors was a well known architect. Another was a famous-in-his-time actor. I would not, ever--not even for a moment--presume to speak for them, as though I knew their mind, their goals, their purpose. I'm just thrilled to be related to them, even if it was a long time ago.

I think anyone who presumes to speak for the dead are....what's the phrase? Full of shit! Yeah, that's the ticket!!!

For all we know, the sculptor might have looked at that addition and said "Shit--just what the tired old thing needs!"

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
4. To hear the guy talk, those flower stickers
Fri Sep 27, 2013, 05:01 PM
Sep 2013

apparently made the thing come to life and attack an orphanage. It's almost always funny when someone reacts that violently to something that trivial and transient. "Abomination" indeed.

mopinko

(70,077 posts)
25. yes.
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:35 PM
Sep 2013

chicago's picasso was an abomination for several years before it became a beloved landmark.

the art world sucks. and runs on drugs and alcohol, for the most part, lest anyone think this stuff is all up and up. so glad to be a farmer.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
34. well, then, the art world has always sucked.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:06 AM
Sep 2013

And yet there are folks like me who will travel all over whenever I can to see the stuff. I think it is the pursuit of beauty and truth. But there is beauty and truth in farming, IMHO. As a farmer, you are a creator of such beauty, along with nature which you cultivate even as a painter creates an image or a sculptor works a living, beautiful shape into being...

A lovely back story on Chicago's Picasso here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Picasso

mopinko

(70,077 posts)
35. it has become a bit of a joke that
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:02 AM
Sep 2013

i pick vegetables to grow based on their color. party it is accidental. most hot pepper turn out to be beautiful, but i seem to have found an amazing number of pretty colored beans. and a dreamcicle orange watermelon.
it's keeping me out of trouble, anyway.

the art world always has sucked, tho. for every artist supported by the medici, lord knows how many starved. lord knows how deeply those artists bowed for their supper.

and from the wiki- this para nearly killed me-
Newspaper columnist Mike Royko, covering the unveiling of the sculpture, wrote: “Interesting design, I’m sure. But the fact is, it has a long stupid face and looks like some giant insect that is about to eat a smaller, weaker insect.” Royko did credit Picasso with understanding the soul of Chicago. “Its eyes are like the eyes of every slum owner who made a buck off the small and weak. And of every building inspector who took a wad from a slum owner to make it all possible.... You’d think he’d been riding the L all his life.”

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
37. color is so important to the human palate (just as it is to the artist's palette).
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:02 PM
Sep 2013

One of the great cuisines of the world to me is Turkish food. The food is absolutely gorgeous and the colors are vivid, combined beautifully and deliciously. The flavors are subtle and divine. We have two superb Turkish restaurants in a nearby town that has grown a vibrant Turkish community. I tutor many Turkish women as a literacy volunteer. I have learned a lot from these women about their culture.

mopinko

(70,077 posts)
61. and to replace him with john cass-
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 08:48 PM
Sep 2013

the saddest part about that is that he was an interesting commentator before he joined the trib. and his commentary on the mob, and their influence in chicago was great. but now he is just a kneejerk toady.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
9. I think that the flowers are gaudy and ugly.
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 03:06 AM
Sep 2013

I like the structure that Calder designed. The flowers don't belong there.

I suppose art is a matter of taste, but the flowers look cheap. The original sculpture looked interesting.

It's a shame that someone tries to pass adding these hideous flowers off as art. It's not.

Vestigial_Sister

(182 posts)
10. sounds like most of you...
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 03:40 AM
Sep 2013

would have no problem with some clown painting a puka shell necklace on the Mona Lisa either.

Mass

(27,315 posts)
12. Seems it reached its goal.
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:33 AM
Sep 2013
White wrote that “the purpose of the event is to spur discussion about art among members of the public,” and “to that extent, Mr. Dodde’s installation has been somewhat successful.” But “if the Calder Foundation views the work as inappropriate,” she continued, “the city of Grand Rapids does not intend to allow this temporary installation to diminish a valued partnership built over forty years.”


I cant say I like what he did, but it is TEMPORARY and I agree with Skinner that the answer from the Calder foundation shows a level of superiority that is bugging.
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
17. Calder’s “La Grande Vitesse” was the first public sculpture funded by the National Endowment
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:48 AM
Sep 2013

for the Arts. In addition the Calder family, disliked on this thread, refused to attend the ceremony two months after Calder's death, to award him the Presidential Medal of Freedom as a protest to call for amnesty for draft resisters of the Vietnam era. Very bad people, some here say. Bad, bad anti war artists who spoke their minds when asked.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
44. One can do a single good thing, and then do a very stupid thing---nearly forty years later.
Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:55 PM
Sep 2013

That letter was over the top RUDE. For people with their noses so far up in the air, they've got no damned class, IMO.

The thing is exposed to the elements, the modification is temporary and designed to spur discussion, which it did quite successfully.

I put the stodgy art-farts in the "blowhard" category.

And the National Endowment has funded both hits AND misses...so they're hardly an arbiter in this business.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
60. The Calder foundation was protecting its "franchise" which it has every right to do...
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 08:12 PM
Sep 2013

but beyond that, doesn't a work of art by an artist have its own integrity?

And also, I have to laugh that so many are taking this in such a huffy way? C'mon...

MADem

(135,425 posts)
62. The derivative artist had permission from the city, though, according to the article.
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 10:33 PM
Sep 2013

If they're so worried about their franchise and their integrity, they should have been part of the selection process, and/or they should have kept a sufficiently tight rein on the use of the thing so this could never have happened in the first place. Frankly, if they don't want people to mess with it, maybe they should regard Grampa's art as "art," and not a business.

I think the huffy folks are the Calder Foundation clowns. I think the derivative artist's comments are probably closer to the mark, and I think all that "abomination" stuff sounds very "fundamentalist" and "assholish" frankly.

Works of art don't have their own integrity when they become part and parcel of pop culture. Frankly, though I know people regard it as "iconic," I think that sculpture is fug-LEEE, and the stupid little seventies-style flowers improve the thing--if only for a brief moment in time!

In any event, they're going to leave it up long enough for the artist's child to see it: http://www.mlive.com/artprize/index.ssf/2013/09/why_calder_flowers_now_will_stay_into_artprizes_final_week.html#incart_river_default

Examples of art that have entered the larger cultural mindset, and no longer have their own integrity (and no one asked permission or even cared what the artist's descendants might think, either):







CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
65. The city did a dumb thing. They should have known better, but, ah, the follies
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:32 AM
Oct 2013

in the art world! "Huffy"? All throughout the ages, artists and critics have been downright pissy toward each other. Art history is full of such sniping!

As to your examples of "derivatives" of famous art, these were not done to TO an original art work. If the Grand Rapids folks had wanted such a thing, the artist could have done his own interpretation. After all, Picasso "redid" masterpieces of Velazquez and Manet cubistically and nobody fussed.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
66. The guy put a few magnetic flowers on an ugly ass sculpture, with permission of the people who
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:47 AM
Oct 2013

owned the thing. It's like putting clothing on well known statues, which someone did a while back (and he is making a fortune off of it, too):



http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/artist-dresses-classic-statues-hipster-clothing-8C11133474

Caillard currently has nine finished images for his "Hipster" series on his website, which he started working on nearly two years ago. He is still adding to the collection. "I would like to have 30 to 40 statues from Greek to the 17th century, with three different styles," including hipster and high fashion, the artist said. His goal is to be able to do a book about the concept behind the project, and feature a majority of the images.

But until that book is ready, prints are available of the existing images, ranging from $1,065 for a 24x36-inch piece to nearly $6,000 for a life-size copy. The art comes mounted in Diasec plexiglass, and is signed, numbered and ready to display.

"Hipster in Stone" will be on exhibit in Paris in October, and New York and London next year.


I think people need to lighten up. No ugly ass sculpture was harmed in the process, and the temporary installation actually got people to talk about and notice the piece. A lot like those statues, which, to me, are hilarious, and resemble some old hippies I used to know back in the day!

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
67. I think that's great! But again, you realized these are Photoshopped, right?
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:28 AM
Oct 2013

There IS a difference!

And again, as I've said earlier in this thread I believe that the actual work has its own individuality and, I might add, its own integrity. So leave the real thing as it is, as the artist intended it to be. While the sculpture, whatever your opinion of it, was not scratched or dented, its very being was violated. The offending artist could have used another medium to show what he would like to do with Calder's original. It would show some respect for Calder and still get his idea across.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
69. But he's using the essential essence of the work--the thing that makes the statue special
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:51 AM
Oct 2013

is its iconic imagery. He's "pooping on" the artist's vision.

Also, the sculpture isn't a painting in a frame in a museum. It gets rained on, snowed on, and pooped on by birds. If it were sheltered in a museum up on a pedestal that would be one thing, but any old pigeon or bluebird is free to "violate" that thing all the live-long day.

If you want actual statues dressed, here's some that the City of London modified for the Olympics:



That's FDR on the left wearing a SPAM hat....Churchill on the right in a bowler...



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180979/Hats-London-s-iconic-statues-2012-inspired-makeover-honour-Olympics.html

The world doesn't end if someone has a bit of fun with city art. It's not like someone painted the stuff blue and ruined it.

CTyankee

(63,902 posts)
70. these are fun, I agree!
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 12:36 PM
Oct 2013

I doubt if anyone would try it on the David (which was once outside), even tho I think I read somewhere that even that iconic sculpture once had a fig leaf placed over David's genitalia...

MADem

(135,425 posts)
73. I think it's hilarious when they put him in a speedo, or what-have-you....
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:30 PM
Oct 2013

A flasher coat might be too much of a social commentary, these days...!

Tien1985

(920 posts)
28. It's not permanent and it was
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:32 PM
Sep 2013

Done with permission. Eh. They sound like pretentious asshats, but if it makes them happy to be so, I guess they should carry on.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
57. Calder and his pal Duchamp are chuckling.
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 01:44 PM
Sep 2013

The two of them were at least as silly and mischievous in their own day.



I do not think either Alexander Calder or Marcel Duchamp would have taken offense to this gesture. Instead, they probably would have found it amusing and rather in keeping with their own whimsical approaches to art.

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
59. Can't say I approve altering masterpieces at all.
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 07:31 PM
Sep 2013

Having been lucky enough to travel a bit and live for extended periods in both NYC and Los Angeles, I benefited greatly from exposure to art at some of the world's great museums, which I consider almost holy in nature.

The best interpretation of a Ruebens I ever heard, though, was uttered by my 2-yr-old son as we faced a huge painting of a nude reclining on a couch, only partly draped by white cloth. He took his thumb out of his mouth and announced, "Look, mommy - that lady's getting her diapers changed!" Brought the house down, he did.

But when the King Tut exhibit reached L.A., I experienced an epiphany. Of course I'd seen beautiful depictions of the mask all my life, and I knew it would be breathtaking. When I faced the real thing, however, it mesmerized me. Once the limited time was up, a smiling guard came over and gently took me by the arm to lead me away. I complied readily enough, but I walked backward at her side, staring as long as possible. It was like the thing had magical powers.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
74. I remember some a-hole...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 02:21 PM
Oct 2013

...perhaps back in the '80s, tore up a Matisse sketch on video tape and presented it as performance art. If the point is to infuriate and disappoint, then mission accomplished, I guess.

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
75. Well, there was one later alteration by the artist himself that I appreciated on one occasion.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:08 PM
Oct 2013

Sorry I can't call to mind the exact details, but it's either in San Francisco or Seattle (I think) where there's a tall bronze statue of a man meant to represent the workers of America and the rest of the world, really.

So one time after an especially odious GOP anti-union attack, the artist went back and hung heavy chains on the statue on Labor Day. The city removed them but his point had been made.

Anyone in possession of the true details is cordially invited to rap my memory. My West Coast days were back in the stone age of my youth.

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