Repost: Why Democrats Should Beware Sanders’ Socialism

[misterhighwasted]

Sanders’ portrayal of democratic socialism as nothing but the New Deal is a disingenuous sleight of hand that plays on foggy historical memories.


2016

Why Democrats Should Beware Sanders’ Socialism

He’s a socialist, not a liberal—and there’s a big difference.

By Paul Starr
February 22, 2016

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-2016-socialism-213667

OUTSTANDING READ

[Her Sister]

1. so far so good!

Thanks! Yes it's interesting about the difference between socialism and liberalism. Republicans like to act like it's the same.

[liberal N proud]

2. I think many BSER'S would be sorely disappointed if he were elected

Free stuff is attractive until you learn of the collateral costs.

[kennetha]

4. He'll never be elected

but even if he were, he'd have no backing for most of his pie-in-the sky proposals.

[RANGERMAN89]

32. "Free stuff" this is what democrats say now

I thought we were the party of critical thinking skills and understanding what public spending is.

[William769]

3. Excellent read.

This is what they don't want you to know about Sanders.

For me he can keep his Socialism out of my way of life! We have seen time & time again what his type of Socialism leads to.

[misterhighwasted]

7. Exactly William, keep it out of my life also.

[Agnosticsherbet]

5. I've tried explaining that a liberal can not be a socialist and a socialist can not be a liberal

Sadly, the vast majority of Democrats are as ignorant of what Socialism is as Republicans.

It is a great read.
Sadly, it will be ignored.

[SunSeeker]

9. Exactly. I love this passage in the article about that:

Since Republicans have been calling Obama a socialist for the past eight years, the label socialist may seem to many to be a synonym for progressive or liberal. But the differences between socialism and liberalism are fundamental. At its core, liberalism has a concern for liberty. While liberals have expanded public programs, they also have sought to strengthen rights that limit arbitrary power, both governmental and private. Liberals do not sanctify the free market, but they care about preserving the incentives that stimulate innovation and investment and make possible a flourishing economy.

Socialism and Sanders have their heart in a different place—economic equality before all else. Socialism is still the dream of those who don’t worry about concentrating power in the state or about the perverse effects of making goods and services available at a zero price. To bring socialism back from the dead wearing New Deal liberalism as a mask is no service to either. Socialists should know the difference, and liberals should too. After feverish right-wing accusations that every liberal proposal is tantamount to socialism, the last thing liberals need is a Democratic presidential candidate blurring that line.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-2016-socialism-213667#ixzz441sN0UqM 
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

It really explains Sanders' initial tone deaf response to BLM and why he does not have the support of African Americans.

[riversedge]

13. Good portrayal of the distinctions between the two.

[yallerdawg]

6. They call this 'red-baiting.'

It damn sure is!

State legislatures!



Governors!

[SunSeeker]

10. Yes, and this paragraph outlines how the GOP would eviscerate Sanders in ads:

Sanders’ program reflects his life commitments. In some respects, his biography recapitulates the journey of socialism itself. When he was in his 20s, Sanders worked on a radical kibbutz in Israel—the communal socialist phase. In 1979, he produced a video about the longtime Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs; on the soundtrack, released by Folkways Records, you can hear Sanders performing Debs’ speeches calling for an end to capitalism. In 1980, Sanders served as a presidential elector for the Socialist Workers Party, which supported the nationalization of industry and expressed solidarity with revolutionary dictatorships, including Iran (this at the time Iran was holding American hostages).

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-2016-socialism-213667#ixzz441rguMqu 
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[yallerdawg]

11. A 'socialist' Democratic nominee...

would put even Trump in the White House!

[DemonGoddess]

8. K&R!

[workinclasszero]

12. Great article!

"Far from embracing socialism, Roosevelt rejected it and ran against socialist opponents, who had no doubt that socialism and the New Deal were very different."

"In 1980, Sanders served as a presidential elector for the Socialist Workers Party, which supported the nationalization of industry and expressed solidarity with revolutionary dictatorships, including Iran (this at the time Iran was holding American hostages)."

[misterhighwasted]

15. yup, far from what his stump speech tells. Total sleight of hand, free stuff. This is is deception

His campaign from day 1 has been based on running on deception & to fool the uneducated into believing in his socialism .
No thanks, I'll stick with fighting to keep our Democracy. Not replace it.

[SunSeeker]

22. Perfect gif. LOL

[Her Sister]

24. this!

It feels disingenuous like the author says and we should take seriously when BS uses the words Socialism and Revolution. He really means it.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-2016-socialism-213667


HRC GROUP!

[SunSeeker]

14. It's so dishonest of Sanders to liken his socialism to the New Deal.

As the article explains:

During the mid-20th century, the United States was fortunate to avoid the program that socialists were calling for at that time. While Roosevelt experimented with different strategies in the New Deal, he did not undertake any large-scale nationalization, and the primary legacies he left behind were Social Security and regulatory agencies that not only maintained capitalism but also saved it from self-destructive excesses. Far from embracing socialism, Roosevelt rejected it and ran against socialist opponents, who had no doubt that socialism and the New Deal were very different.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-2016-socialism-213667#ixzz441qDkQy3 
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook


And it also explains why Sanders' "Democratic Socialist" label and claims he just wants what Denmark has is dishonest:

As the old socialist program of state ownership and planning became harder to defend in the era after World War II, “social democrats” and “democratic socialists”—terms intended to emphasize they weren’t Bolsheviks—championed expanded social-insurance programs and progressive taxation. These redistributive policies have been at the heart of the northern European model Sanders invokes, except that he misses one key aspect of it. Based on a “class compromise,” that model includes trade and tax policies sought by business. The northern European countries tax labor and consumption heavily, but they have open-trade policies and lower taxes on capital to foster growth.
...
The Vermont senator calls for increasing the top marginal tax rate on capital gains to 64.2 percent, which would not only be nearly triple the current rate and a peacetime record in the United States but also far higher than in any of the countries Sanders admires. In contrast, Denmark’s tax rate on capital gains—the highest rate in Europe—is 42 percent; France’s, 34.4 percent; Sweden’s, 30 percent; and Germany’s, 25 percent. Under Barack Obama, the U.S. rate has risen from 15 percent to 23.8 percent, a significant increase but well within both recent U.S. experience and current patterns abroad.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-2016-socialism-213667#ixzz441qnYmO0 
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[RANGERMAN89]

30. Really? He hates democracy?

You have to admit with this post you went very far off the deep end. Also expressing ones ideas is the very definition of democracy with the pathetic way you are acting it seems way more likely you hate democracy.

Also all this the evil reds are going to destroy our democracy makes you all look like republicans.

[misterhighwasted]

31. I'll take Democracy over Socialism any day. How can one love Democracy yet fight to replace it

Re read the article at the link.
You are missing the reason why people are concerned about Sanders campaign which aims to replace democracy.

This is the Hillary group.

[RANGERMAN89]

33. I'll choose critical thinking and not acting like a republican

From the 50's worrying if dem dang dirty reds will steal my freedoms and guns. Sorry but the notion that Sanders wants to "destroy" democracy with public spending is just ridiculous. when has he made this promise to destroy democracy? While he was suggesting all citizens be registered to vote or was it when he suggested we allow prisoners to be allowed to vote after the end of their sentence? Or is he advocating for the destruction of democracy by wanting campaign finance reform?

[misterhighwasted]

35. Why are you stalking my post in the Hillary Group?

If you don't agre with what we post here. Then simply stay out of the Hillary Group.
Thanks

[Cha]

40. If you're such a big "critical thinker" then you'd know no one is "acting like a repub".. sounds to

me like you're swallowing the propaganda. How "critical thinking" is that?

[Her Sister]

17. Chris Matthews vs. Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "What's The Difference Between A Democrat & A Socialist

Chris Matthews vs. Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "What's The Difference Between A Democrat And A Socialist?"

video

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/07/30/chris_matthews_to_debbie_wasserman_schultz_whats_the_difference_between_a_democrat_and_a_socialist.html




Chris Matthews vs. Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "What's The Difference Between A Democrat And A Socialist?"
Posted on July 30, 2015

On MSNBC's Hardball Thursday night, host Chris Matthews stumped DNC Chairwoman Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) when he asked her what the difference is between a Democrat and a socialist.

"What is the difference between a Democrat and a socialist?" Matthews asked, leaving Wasserman Schultz at a loss for words.

"I used to think there is a big difference. What do you think it is?" Matthews tried again. "A Democrat like Hillary and a socialist like Bernie Sanders."

Wasserman Schultz again was unable to answer and instead tried to tell Matthews what the difference between a Democrat and a Republican is.

"The more important question is what is the difference between being a Democrat and being a Republican," she said.

"What's the big difference between a Democrat and a socialist?" Matthews again asked.

"You're chairman of the democratic party. Tell me the difference between you and a socialist," Matthews reminded her.

"The relevant debate that we'll be having this campaign is what's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican," Schultz said.

Schultz, however, was able to tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican.

"The difference between a Democrat and Republican is that Democrats fight to make sure everybody has an opportunity to succeed and the Republicans are strangled by their right-wing extremists," she said.

[Her Sister]

18. she was in tight spot

b/c had to be neutral in the subject.

[SunSeeker]

21. Correct. Sanders has a lawsuit pending against the DNC.

Everything she says can and will be used against the DNC by Sanders.

[Her Sister]

23. Fun times!

So she could not describe what the difference was between a Democrat and a Socialist.

[SunSeeker]

25. The other problem is Sanders now claims to be a member of the Democratic Party.

If DWS even so much as acknowledges Sanders' socialism, the GOP will hit Hillary over the head with it by pointing out that she belongs to "the party of socialists." Sanders has done damage to our party.

[quickesst]

19. ********

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.startribune.com/sack-cartoon-the-sanders-situation/370333731/&h=1515&w=2000&tbnid=-cXPPxP9j56rmM:&docid=uuvwKXEimKmiSM&ei=Ja_2VpDbOcbDmwGwtoeQBg&tbm=isch&client=tablet-android-lenovo&ved=0ahUKEwjQgbPQ2d7LAhXG4SYKHTDbAWIQMwhNKCkwKQ

[misterhighwasted]

20. Lol. That's a spot on rendering of bernie..like Ebeneezer S

Kudos to the Star Trib & the artist

[quickesst]

36. Thought it was pretty funny...

... and most of all, not a nasty shot.

[Gothmog]

39. Great cartoon

[Her Sister]

27. wikipedia

Democratic socialism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
This article is about the political ideology of democratic socialism. It is not to be confused with the political ideology of social democracy. The two terms are sometimes inaccurately used as synonyms in contemporary political discourse.
Part of a series on
Socialism
Red flag waving.svg
Development[show]
Ideas[show]
Models[show]
Variants[show]
History by country[show]
People[show]
Organizations[show]
Related topics[show]
Socialism portal
Economics portal
Politics portal
v t e

Democratic socialism is a political system wherein there is democratic control of a socialist economic system. It thus combines political democracy with social ownership of significant elements of the means of production. Sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is often added to distinguish itself from the Marxist-Leninist brand of socialism, which is widely viewed as being non-democratic.[1]

Democratic socialism is distinguished from both the Soviet model of centralized socialism and from social democracy, where "social democracy" refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[2] The distinction with the former is made on the basis of the authoritarian form of government and centralized economic system that emerged in the Soviet Union during the 20th century,[3] while the distinction with the latter is made on the basis that democratic socialism is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while social democracy is not.[4] That is, whereas social democrats only seek to "humanize" capitalism through state intervention, democratic socialists see capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of liberty, equality and solidarity; and believe that the issues inherent to capitalism can only be solved by superseding private ownership with some form of social ownership. Ultimately democratic socialists believe that reforms aimed at addressing the economic contradictions of capitalism will only cause more problems to emerge elsewhere in the economy, that capitalism can never be sufficiently "humanized", and that it must therefore ultimately be replaced with socialism.[5][6]

Democratic socialism is not specifically revolutionary or reformist, as many types of democratic socialism can fall into either category, with some forms overlapping with social democracy, supporting reforms within capitalism as a prelude to the establishment of socialism.[7] Some forms of democratic socialism accept social democratic reformism to gradually convert the capitalist economy to a socialist one using pre-existing democratic institutions, while other forms are revolutionary in their political orientation and advocate for the overthrow of the bourgeoisie and the transformation of the capitalist economy to a socialist economy.[8]

[Her Sister]

28. I sure like my Democrat Candidate!!

True blue!!

WITH HRC!

TRUST HRC!

[otohara]

29. K&R

Thanks for repost!

[Dawson Leery]

34. FDR and JFK were liberals, neither wanted the government to

take a massive role in ownership of the markets.

[ladym55]

37. Things Bernie Bots are missing

All show up in this article. Bernie has tapped into the discontent on the left because Obama so often was stopped in his tracks by obstruction. However, many of Bernie's supporters live in some sort of bubble, and they think that the socialism thing isn't going to be rammed down every voter's throat from the convention to election day if by some miracle Bernie pulls it off.

A local progressive I really respect who is a Hillary supporter said that he is with Hillary because Bernie has a very weak legislative record. He makes great speeches, but accomplishes very little.

[Gothmog]

38. The Kochs and Rove would use this against Sanders to great effect