See how much Bernie's tax plan would affect you...Vox Tax Calculator

[workinclasszero]

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you
Updated by Alvin Chang on March 25, 2016, 8:30 a.m

Donald Trump and Ted Cruz propose massive cuts that would greatly reduce federal income taxes on everyone, especially the wealthy, while cutting a wide host of government programs. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders proposes virtually the opposite: tax increases on everyone, with hikes on the wealthy especially, while adding comprehensive government programs. And Hillary Clinton proposes much smaller tax increases, all focused on the rich.

But what do their plans mean for your federal tax liability?

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016

Make sure you scroll down and enter your info into the calculator

[mcar]

1. Increases my tax burden by $5700

And we aren't even close to being 1%ers; we're very definitely in the "middle class but just getting by" category.

[workinclasszero]

2. Crazy ain't it?

Why doesn't Bernie admit hes coming for us all and not just banks and wall street?

[mcar]

4. Terrifying

I'm all for raising taxes on the rich but leave what's left of the middle class alone!

[VMA131Marine]

5. But, you would not pay health insurance premiums anymore.....

For most people the savings on that would far outweigh the tax increase.

[stopbush]

17. Thos savings are already figured in to the Vox calculator.

Your argument is invalid.

[VMA131Marine]

19. You are wrong!

The Vox calculator only estimates the change in Federal taxes. It doesn't know anything about your current health insurance costs; but it is easy enough for you to compare them to your change in taxes.

[obamanut2012]

93. My premium is $62 a month for Cadillac insurance

I would pay $4,250 more a year.

This shouldn't be funded by ANY added burden on the middle class until years later, when we have much higher wages and protection. The wealthy and corps should fund this.

It is appalling to me a Socialist thinks this is a good way to fund any type of social net.

[stopbush]

101. My employer pays 100% of my premium.

So I'd really get killed under BS' plan.

[shadowandblossom]

33. People below the poverty line can't afford that.

They don't have enough for food.

[littlebit]

35. Not me

I would still be paying a little over 4,000 more.

[Yavin4]

71. I don't pay them now.

My company does.

[workinclasszero]

8. A bit more from the article...

What we learned from our calculator

In short, what you'll see is:

Clinton proposes keeping things mostly the same.

Sanders wants to implement massive increases across the board, including on the poor.

Cruz and Trump propose big cuts for everyone — but the wealthier you are, the more you keep in your pocket.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016

[workinclasszero]

3. Its 6830 more for I and my wife.

21.4 tax rate...OUCH!

[Mika]

9. How much is your annual health insurance for you and your family? eom

[stopbush]

16. That doesn't matter as the calculator Vox has devised

already accounts for healthcare expenses.

You can't use the argument that you'd save money by not paying health premiums because that "savings" is already figured in.

"Update 2: To calculate the tax rate, we originally used adjusted gross income (AGI), but we decided to switch over to expanded cash income (ECI), because this measure includes income that is not subject to income tax, like health insurance premiums paid by employers. This allows the calculator to provide a more accurate view of your tax rate. For a longer explanation, read this Q&A."

See here for cited Q& A: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11306130/tax-calculator-q-and-a

[VMA131Marine]

23. This adjustment only accounts for changes in tax rate

It does not account for savings that would accrue from not having to pay for health insurance. Read update 2 again more carefully.

[handmade34]

57. even not paying health care premiums

I would still be out about $3000... some would personally benefit, some would not... I am a Hillary Supporter but if I knew all people would have access to good health care and decent education... I would gladly pay it...

[Newkularblue]

78. I would also

What about offsetting savings in taxes for state managed health care plans

[VMA131Marine]

18. Most employers that provide health insurance will see a reduction in costs for insurance.

My current employer contributes over 12% of my income to my health plan. That would drop to 6.2% under Sanders universal health plan and I would expect to see some of that savings in increased pay.

[stopbush]

26. Using Bernie's 6.2% rate to say the needed increase would be covered by a 6.2% rate

is like using the Bible to prove what the Bible says is true.

[still_one]

51. It will be more than that also. When they tried to implement single payer in Vermont

"Shumlin became the most visible trailblazer. Until Wednesday, when the governor admitted what critics had said all along: He couldn’t pay for it.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711#ixzz44339J6AF

[handmade34]

59. the problem as I see it...

single payer is possible, doable and affordable... if...., everyone working on it is of the same mind... we didn't have that in Vermont and Bernie (as President) would not have that in Washington

Bernie supporters and all passionate should be working much harder at the local level to get progressive local and State people into office and spend more energy on positively educating neighbors and friends... putting all energy into just one man is not going to get us anywhere at this point...

[fleabiscuit]

99. "... I would expect to see some of that savings in increased pay."

That's a joke, right? Cuz your experience is employers pass along lower expensed to employees? Never mind.

[George II]

102. Probably your employer would dash your expectations. They would consider the health insurance...

....savings as a "cost reduction".

So it appears that Sanders' plan would cost the employee more in taxes and cost the employer less.

That's "progressive"?

[Her Sister]

6. Holy-Cow-Bernie-Would-Raise-My-Taxes-HOW-MUCH ~dailyKos

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/25/1506130/-Holy-Cow-Bernie-Would-Raise-My-Taxes-HOW-MUCH

As someone who loves Bernie’s lofty goals, and would happily vote for him if he won the nomination, I guess I was a little shocked to discover how much he was going to raise my taxes according to the Vox.com calculator.

Bernie’s “Free” Healthcare and “Free” College is going to cost me around $9,000 EXTRA in taxes per year.

Hillary’s plan will cost me about $40 extra.

Donald Trump wants to give me a $4,500 per year TAX BREAK.

So that’s a $13,500 difference in my yearly taxes between Sanders and Trump.

With Bernie, by the time my son goes to college, I’ll have paid $162,000 in advance for that education… plus another $36,000 while he’s there.

Obviously, that wouldn’t change who I’ll vote for because I vote (D) no matter what these days, but holy cow.

I’ve been told by MANY Bernie fans that he would go after unfair Corporate tax breaks, the big banks and their sneaky way of avoiding taxes, the big oil cartels and their absolutely insane tax breaks, and millionaires and billionaires to pay for his plans.

I am not a corporation, a big bank, an oil cartel, or a millionaire or certainly not a billionaire!

Even worse, as someone who can afford this tax increase if I stretch my budget but who cares about those who CANNOT, I am shocked at how much Bernie is going to ask the poor to pay.

A single mother making $20,000 per year who has one child will be asked to pay $2,300 MORE in taxes.

A married couple making $40,000 per year who have one child will be asked to pay $4,830 MORE in taxes.

If more than 50% of Democratic voters in the primaries aren’t buying into this idea, I don’t see how this can be sold to the general population, especially Republicans who will be screaming “TAX AND SPEND, TAX AND SPEND!” until their throats are raw.

Any thoughts on how you would explain this plan to regular Americans who will only hear “tax increase” and tune out?

Edited to add:

I forgot to mention, my wife and I make more than $75,000 per year but less than $100,000 per year and have one child. So, yes, we can afford this tax increase, but how do we sell MOST Americans on it? That was my question, which some folks have tried to help answer while others have been busy flagging the Tip Jar because they don’t like facts. The fact is, Bernie will raise taxes. People don’t like their taxes to go up. How do you get past that to sell his plan to the average American?

[SaschaHM]

7. And this is why...

every poll showing Sanders beating republican candidates are BS. All the republicans have to do is make an ad with a link to a calculator and replay footage of his promise to raise taxes. Even someone making 30,000 a year would pay more in taxes to pay for his programs. That's unacceptable and the whole promise of increased benefits i.e. universal healthcare/free college for others is not going to be enough for most people.

[workinclasszero]

11. You nailed it

The republicans are still praying that Bernie can get the democratic nomination because he is the real tax and spend leftist of their dreams!

And there's so much more ammo he gives them. It would be a rethug landslide OMG!

[SharonClark]

85. K&R - Excellent reply!

[redstateblues]

10. $6400. for me under a Sanders Administration. I am very much middle class-breaking even

No thanks. No Democrat will win the GE running on raising taxes on the middle class. Last to try-Walter Mondale-he won one state. His home state MN

[stopbush]

12. Bernie's plan increases my taxes $7700. Hillary, $80.

Yeah, I'm voting for Hillary.

[Godhumor]

13. My burden would increase 12.5k

That would be quality of life altering. In a bad way.

[Lucinda]

14. Ouch!

Not good.

[jmowreader]

15. $2630 increase for me

[jmowreader]

20. So what he's really saying is...

We have to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour so you can afford all Bernie's tax increases.

[shadowandblossom]

34. LOL but it won't be enough...

[SaschaHM]

21. We should take bets..

on how quickly this gets hidden. I give it a day before someone tries to silence us.

[Treant]

24. 3...2...1...

[Treant]

22. $6,740 more

in taxes?!?!

Warranted, even if I'm very kind and assume that the health care program goes into effect the same day the taxes start (it won't and cant, just from an infrastructure standpoint), and that my health care drops to $0 (I pay for it myself), I'm still in the hole by close to a grand.

[VMA131Marine]

25. Probably not because deductibles and co-insurance/co-pays mostly go away.

[stopbush]

28. True, but only in Bernie Dreamland.

His numbers don't add up.

[Treant]

29. I don't pay

$900 in deductibles, co-insurance, and co-pays a year by a longshot.

And for those whose employers cover some of the load, I also expect them to take that as windfall to cover their own larger tax burden to pay for this.

The employee won't see more than a token to keep them from the pitchforks and torches.

[shadowandblossom]

27. It hits pretty hard even if you're well below the poverty line.

with 2 kids and living paycheck to paycheck, and not making it on what you have. I tried putting in 12k and it says that it would add $730.00 to their taxes. That's a junker car for somebody who may not even have one for themselves. For perspective, Clinton's plan charges that person $0.00 additional.

If you have no kids it's almost a thousand at 12k.


I'm going to go see what it charges if you're one of those evil 30k a year oligarchs...

[shadowandblossom]

30. If you earn 30k he want's over a third of your total income in taxes.

I don't think people would go for it.

[MANative]

31. Bernie's plan would add $11,700 to my taxes...

Hillary's, about $200 more, and I'd pay about $9000 less under Trump or Cruz. While I wouldn't mind paying less, I recognize that taxes are needed and I don't have a problem paying them. I wouldn't be happy about nearly $12K more, though. We don't pay even half that in health insurance premiums and co-pays/deductibles combined.

[VMA131Marine]

32. My taxes would increase $14,400 but..

Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2016, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)

I would save over $16,000 in annual healthcare expenses so it's definitely a win for me.

[SunSeeker]

36. Wow. We'd pay $17,000 more under Sanders. But only $140 more under Hillary.

[LoveMyCali]

104. I would pay about 4800 more under Bernie

and $40 more under Hillary.

[SunSeeker]

105. That Vox Tax Calculator has gone viral.

I saw it posted on Facebook with someone saying it would increase his family's taxes $14k, and then some Bernie fan said that he would save on healthcare since it would be "free." But the first guy then replied that his out of pocket healthcare costs for his whole family is only $6.9k and he is worried what such a tax increase would do to the economy if middle class families like his were hit with $14,000 tax increases.

[LisaM]

37. OMG

Last edited Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:47 AM - Edit history (1)

Mine would go up a lot. I don't have kids so I guess I have to pay for other people's kids to go to college! My question for Sanders' supporters would be whether he would compel employers to make up the difference with increased pay?

[obamanut2012]

94. Same for me

Single, $4,280 more a year.

[Kensan]

38. This calculator is spreading misinformation...

If you read the Q&A, you can see all the types of "income" they have added. The "ECI" concept they use is a total distortion. The tax code does not work this way, and results in a complete scare tactic. Even though Sanders' tax plan will increase people's total tax liabilities, the real impact is felt by those already in the top 10% of taxable incomes. That's also without recognizing any benefit from health costs (premiums, deductibles, medications), which they also mention in the Q&A.

I'm all for comparing the candidates' plans, but at least make the comparisons using a valid methodology.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

39. $6230 more

But think of all the freebies?

[Hoyt]

40. Too be fair, you'd supposedly get healthcare, college education for kids, jobs, etc.

for that increase in taxes. Also to be fair, assuming one could get it enacted, it will likely cost a bunch more than that and there are big risks shooting for Sanders' promises -- like a Republican landslide, a voucher system, etc. I think Clinton will move us closer to where most want to be.

[workinclasszero]

42. Picture the campaign ads.

Trump: I'm gonna give you a 4000 dollar tax break. Bernie Sanders will raise your taxes by thousands of dollars.

Who do you think will win the election? The republicans want Bernie to win the nomination really bad.

Bernie is the republicans only chance to win in the GE this year.

[Hoyt]

43. Clearly it's a loser, just look at how quickly Vermont abandoned single payer

when they realized how much they'd have to raise taxes.

[workinclasszero]

46. Right

I hate how his tax plan nails low and middle class workers as hard as the rich.

If he somehow got a 15 buck an hour minimum wage passed, he would just turn around and take it back through taxes.

[Dawson Leery]

41. He and Trump have unworkable tax plans. I would pay $8,160 more.

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:40 AM - Edit history (1)

With Hillary I would pay $240 more.

Trump will turn us into Greece and Bernie will take alot of money out of the economy. Working people cannot afford
high taxes as the rich can.

[BlueMTexpat]

44. Keeping in mind that there are several

caveats and that each taxpayer's situation is different, still WOW, just WOW!

The "freebies" really aren't free, as we all knew. It's just that some of us thought it would be the one-percenters who would be gouged more. But this is across the board.

If something looks too good to be true, it is. I learned that a LONG time ago.

[still_one]

53. They never were

[Starry Messenger]

45. Why are his taxes so high on low earners?

In my world, you tax the rich for social programs.

"We adjusted your income for 2017 dollars, which puts you at $31,359. On average, people like you — whose income is between $30,000 and $35,000 and are married with no children — would pay about $4,910 in federal taxes in 2017 under the current tax code, or an effective tax rate of about 7.8% of your expanded cash income."

It says my taxes would be $3150 more. Yikes. Granted, I'm not living solely on my own income, my husband makes way more money than me, and we get health coverage through his job. When I did get the ACA, our combined income made me ineligible for subsidies (his work didn't have an affordable spouse plan that year, it does now, long story) so I paid $411 per month in premiums, which was a hefty bill that year. But still less than $4910+$3150.

Edit: Clinton's plan, $50 increase for me.

[Firebrand Gary]

47. If this is accurate, Sander's is out of his mind.

There is NO WAY the public would go for this! What this tax plan would do to my household is devastating. No, there's just no way in hell I could every vote for this. We were proud to accept the tax increase under President Obama, but this? There's absolutely no way!

[still_one]

49. You're absolutely right.

[still_one]

48. Increases my tax burden by 10K. That would go over real well in a general elections

[KewlKat]

50. a 25.7% increase for me..........

well lets hope others will run the numbers and see what to expect. I can't see where BS will get his promises fulfilled as I can't imagine the increases will pass?

[UMTerp01]

52. $7500 more for me

I need to see some additional details before I am ok with this. Why the fuck am I paying $7500 more?

[pnwmom]

54. Yikes! I've been asking how much all these increases would be ADDED TOGETHER

but the answer still is pretty shocking. Wow. A real hit on the middle class.

This would kill Bernie in the General Election.

[Adsos Letter]

55. $16,700 more.

[NastyRiffraff]

56. Additional $2000

under Bernie's plan. $20 under Hillary's.

Although I don't base my vote on one issue, and I don't mind paying taxes to benefit the country and its citizens (particularly the poor and middle class), this shows me how very unrealistic Bernie's tax plan is. It would never, EVER pass. It would do what seems to be impossible...actually bring Democrats and Republicans in Congress together.

No, it's not just the 1% and "Wall Street" Bernie is after. It's us.

[Stand and Fight]

58. $19,570 more? No, thanks! I'm glad we caucused for Hillary in the SAF Household! n/t

[George II]

60. I'd pay $7,500 more, with Clinton I'd pay $80 more.

[DemonGoddess]

61. mine is increased by $2000

my son's increases by $1680, and my daughter (who makes the most) increases by $3850

[MSMITH33156]

62. I'm fine

paying a little more in taxes, but he's increased my tax burden by over 11,000. Now, I'd be willing to take some hit to guarantee healthcare for everyone.

But the free college thing kind of upsets me. I took out student loans and ended up with a massive debt, which I just finished paying off...I just turned 34. That system is inherently unfair. I don't think anyone should have to go through that.

But there is a long distance between the current system and free college. That's why I like Hillary a lot better than Bernie.

There seems to be a narrative that all Democrats love Bernie's plan, but we settle for Hillary cause hers is more realistic and likelier to pass given the conservative make up of Congress.

Not me. I think his plan is stupid. I have no idea why college should be free. Current system sucks and is unfair? Absolutely. Reforms needed? Of course. College should be affordable? Yes! Free? Now hold on...

And that's why Hillary's plan of:

(1) reducing interest rates to the bare minimum so that when the government guarantees student loans they don't make a profit (which they do now)
(2) Having repayment be a percentage of income (so you aren't crippled by debt)
(3) Having an expiry date so that at some point, you've paid enough and the burden disappears

is not only more realistic, but makes sense.

Ask me to pay more in taxes to make sure everyone in this country has health care access, and I'll gladly do it. But after years of having the "hidden tax" of sending a percentage of income to banks to pay off my student loans, and just as I emerged from that debt, you're going to tax me 1k a month so that other people can go for free...it doesn't seem fair. Maybe I'm being selfish, but it really doesn't seem fair.

[DemonGoddess]

64. You're not being selfish

It ISN'T fair. Thing is, this tax increase hurts everyone. With Hillary's, my household, collectively, sees an increase of $60 between the THREE of us, whereas the increase with Bernie's is completely unaffordable to me. $7400+ collectively.

We already struggle. Tax increases of that nature would make us homeless. Given that we're also all FRUGAL by nature, one can see why I certainly would oppose such a plan.

[Thinkingabout]

63. In my situation I have health care as a benefit and pay the Medicare Part B

Premium so I will have to pay more in taxes and it does not offset my medical cost, it is a loss for me.

[nini]

65. 8700 more...

whoa.

[bluestateguy]

67. I can't afford Bernie's spending programs

Tax that guy behind the tree, and that means the wealthy, not me.

[Lisa0825]

68. $7400 more - that would set me back the equivalent of four years in my career ladder. ouch! nt

[blackdove78]

69. Wtf

At not quite $16000 and 2 kids at home,(including 1 that's special needs) I'm definitely poor. Sander's plan still has me paying $1760 more a year in taxes. Fuck that.

[fleabiscuit]

70. K&R

[Yavin4]

72. Bernie has not been hit on this at all, but he will be if he's the nominee

This is why his favorables are high. No one is calling him out on his policies.

[ericson00]

73. here's my take how it sounds:

[shenmue]

74. I'd pay $1,630 more. About 10% of my income.

I earn ten dollars an hour.

[Stand and Fight]

75. WARNING!!! Passed this around on Facebook to friends.

The majority of my Democratic friends to answer 9 out of 12 said they'd rather vote for Trump. Every one of my Republican friends (7/7) said they would not only vote for Trump, but actively work to defeat Bernie. These are people who are NOT ordinarily politically active.

[shadowrider]

76. I would pay $7,590 more

Holy cow.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. I ran our targeted income for this year

Then I ran us making 31K this year. If this is accurate we are far better prepared to take the Sanders tax plan than a couple in NJ making 31K - who will pay an additional 3K per year. Clinton they will pay another $50.00 per year.

I don't mind paying the additional money under Sanders but I take issue with his lack of small business/entrepreneur insight on his web site. March 14 Forbes ran a piece discussing this. 2017 I would like to walk into work in early January, ask for a package (we always have layoffs Q1) - then focus on my writing and offer myself up as an Import/Export/Hazmat Homeland Security Expert to Small Businesses. The package would pay for 60 Million records for OFAC/BIS list review in Bridger (LexisNexis system) in anticipation of the TPP allowing access to American Entrepreneurs who wish to export to the countries in the Agreement.

In Sanders plan - will my package be taxed at a rate that prohibits me paying the bill to LexisNexis? It's about $280K for the number of records I have to run. I also would have to pay for my IATA and IMDG certification training in 2017) expires then and pay for Homeland Security certification updates. I've got a feeling under Clinton I would fare better.

If I went strictly by "How much I get to keep" I'd have to consider Mr. Cuban Mistress Crisis or The Keeper of the Racists but those aren't options. No way. Shoot me now.

[Koinos]

79. Republicans know they can beat Sanders on the tax issue alone.

It is so obvious, I am surprised that this has gotten so little attention.

The elderly, on fixed incomes and Medicare, would be hit very hard.

Free college was a ploy to pander to young people. It really doesn't help anyone else. It certainly doesn't help those who have already graduated and are deep in debt.

[workinclasszero]

82. "Republicans know they can beat Sanders on the tax issue alone"

Easily.

The only way Trump can win the presidency is if the democratic party loses its collective mind and votes in Bernie the taxman.

Thank God I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

80. $14,190 more

Last edited Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:25 AM - Edit history (1)

for my husband and I and our two school aged children. I think that would be a lot of extra money for us. I know that we make more than some people, but we are still a middle class household. We have a pretty modest house. Our vehicles are both 10+ years old. We are still paying on college loans and mortgage while trying to save a little for kids.

[Gothmog]

81. Tax increases for everyone is not a great party platform

[Politicub]

83. Holy !@#$%^&* - My taxes under sanders would go up more than $10k/yr

And as a small business owner, I already pay the self-employment tax.

Hillary - a $200 increase. Her pragmatic set of improvements will make a big difference in my life and many others. While something like free college is a noble goal, I think it's through enhancing Pell Grants, fixing student loan issues, etc. that we'll see the most favorable cost/benefit.

[beaglelover]

84. I'm pay about $19K more in taxes under Bernie's plan and $400 more under Hillary's plan.

Wow! $19K more in taxes is a lot IMO.

[SharonClark]

86. $7590 more for me under Bernie and only $200 more under Hillary

The GOP would love this!

[Stuckinthebush]

87. 24,000 more

I can't afford that. No thanks, Bernie.

[Maru Kitteh]

88. $14,130 more. Hello beans and rice and more overtime. Sorry mom, we'll have to cut back on

things like expensive medications, compression stockings, medical devices, new clothes and shoes, and I'm sorry we won't be able to afford you any trips to be among your beloved mountains.

No thank you Bernie. I have a nice house but it's not extravagant by any means. I'm not rich. I work my fucking ass off to the tune of about 16-22 hours of overtime every 2 week pay period. We take care of my mom. Our vacations are spent here in our own county or very close by. What else does he want me to do? I guess I'm now one of his "fat cats." Sure, many days I don't have time for little luxuries like hygiene, lunch, or timely voiding - but HEY! it's a REVOLUTION right? Somebody's got to pay for it.

[Gothmog]

89. My taxes would go up a great deal

[workinclasszero]

90. Sadly everyones taxes would go up big

Not just the rich either.

[Gothmog]

98. Nancy Pelosi will not let members of congress run on Sanders platform

Trying to drastically increase taxes is not a good party platform

[obamanut2012]

91. Pay $4,280 more under Bernie

lolz

I barely make enough now, and I have a really good white collar job and Cadillac health insurance I get very cheaply. This would sink me, for real. Even with a roommate it would make it very difficult.

[Her Sister]

92. At first BS did not answer or mention the question of taxes till Chris Cuomo's

first CNN town-hall when he was on the spot. Funnee moment!

1st time!

HRC GROUP READY!

[fleabiscuit]

95. KICK! n/t

[DemonGoddess]

96. KICK!

[fleabiscuit]

97. This was cross posted was it not? eom

[fleabiscuit]

100. And taxes rise based on health care costs too? ouch n/t

[stopbush]

103. The big problem is with Bernie's phony numbers.

I don't see how he gets people to believe that they are going to pay only $500 a year for healthcare and get the same services they get now.

He's proposing Medicare For All. The current Medicare program is funded by payroll taxes paid by 100% of the workforce to fund healthcare for ONLY the over-65 crowd, which is only about 19% of the population. Those over 65-ers each pay an average of $1200 a year in Medicare premiums. Most of them are on Medicare for under 20 years because they die.

You now want to expand that program to 100% of the population and cover roughly 55 years worth of medical insurance and care for everybody. And all you need to do that is raise the current employee/employer contribution from 2.9% to 6.2%, while at the same time doing away with the $1200 a year paid by seniors today and all other medical premiums paid by under 65s?? Really? And this at a time when 85% of premiums paid to insurers MUST pay for actual services, not overhead. That means that TODAY a helluvalotta $ is being paid to insurance companies and spent on a lot of medical services, and we're going to fund that level of medical service for 350-million people by eliminating all premiums and charging everyone a measly 6.2% payroll tax, which is little more than double the current tax?

It boggles the mind that people buy such bullshit.

[SunSeeker]

106. Exactly right. That Vox calculator WAY underestimates what we'd pay to cover all of Bernie's stuff.

And Bernie has got to know his $500 estimate for healthcare is wrong. When Vermont tried to fund their single payer plan, they determined they would have to hit the middle class with a 12% tax hike. At that point, every Vermont politician gave up on Vermont single payer, including Bernie. They all knew that a 12% tax on the middle class would be politically toxic.

[stopbush]

107. I think the real number to fund Bernie's plan is 18%.

The best thing I read was the person who said if Bernie will save me $5000 in premiums in exchange for a tax hike of $500, how about I take $4500 in savings with no tax hike?