Venezuela leader Maduro alleges Colombia assassination plot

[Eugene]

Source: BBC

4 May 2013 Last updated at 04:52 GMT

Venezuela leader Maduro alleges Colombia assassination plot

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has accused former Colombian leader Alvaro Uribe of plotting to assassinate him.

Mr Maduro said he had evidence that right-wing Venezuelan poluticians had been involved in the plot.

He has alleged conspiracies against him since taking over from the late President Hugo Chavez and winning disputed elections last month.

Mr Uribe - a fierce critic of President Chavez - dismissed Mr Maduro's accusation as "immature".

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Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22409549

[MADem]

1. Everyone's plotting and scheming... 'cept him.

He's got "evidence" of all sorts of bullshit.

This guy ain't gonna last long if he keeps this "Sky is Falling" bullshit up. People get sick of that nonsense fast.

And while Uribe is certainly no saint, "immature" sums the Bus Driver up perfectly.

[Arctic Dave]

2. How condescending of you.

What do you do? Probably something menial also.

[MADem]

3. What does "what I do" have to do with this discussion?

I am not the leader of Venezuela, now, am I?

In actual fact, if you must know, I do NOTHING. I am retired.

I know what YOU do, though--as you've demonstrated by your post in this thread!

[Catherina]

4. It has as much to do with it as your elitist remark that he's a "bus driver"

That you need to "put him back in his place" and sneer at his common origins speaks volumes about your idea of *democracy*.

This man successfully founded a Labor syndicate, despite a ban on them at the time, and did so well he was elected President of the
transportation workers’ union, before becoming a founding member and national co-ordinator of the national trade union body the Bolivarian Federation of Workers.

Maybe you could sneer at that? After all it's all lowly common people stuff too.

He also cofounded the Movement for the Fifth Republic (MVR), which was instrumental in Chavez' amazing, historical, victory in the 1990 elections. Maduro was elected as an MP on the same ticket despite lacking a fancy elite degree in manipulating numbers to bamboozle the poor, or how to lie your entire nation and the world into warS for profit. Maybe you can find something in there to sneer at. Or here:

Javier Corrales, a professor of political science at Amherst College in the US, says: "Maduro is the Revolution's most Janus-faced character. On the one hand, he is one of the PSUV's most convinced leftist, anti-imperialist radical, and, on the other, he can be soft-spoken and conciliatory. He is the architect of the remarkable turnaround of relations with Colombia in the last two years".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/12/hugo-chavez-heir

Despite his lowly origins, he worked on the draft of the New Constitution the Venezuelan people vote for, on their amazing labor laws and minimum wage which is one of the most impressive in Latin America.

What have all our MBA politicians done for us lately? Or Europe's fancy degreed SOBs?

In 2005 he was elected President of the National Assembly after successfully chairing various committees dealing with employment and social issues.

He was elected President of the National Assembly after a string of SOLID ACHIEVEMENTS. Brazilian President Lula de Silva credits him, the lowly bus driver, with making ALBA and MERCOSUR as strong as they are today.

I expected more from you.

Venezuela is a country of workers. It's most fitting that a worker and leader of social struggles should lead it.

The world is suffering immensely from the results of putting all those elitist Ivy School MBAs in charge. I'm ecstatic some countries are thankfully rejecting the dishonest *I feel your pain* politics of the elites.

[MADem]

5. Now I'm an "elitist?" Please.

You know nothing about me, and you're calling me an elitist.

That, right there, is a Major Fail. Names will never hurt me, and they won't make your arguments more forceful--in fact, they do just the opposite.

You're the one calling his origins "lowly." I just called the guy a Bus Driver--which is what he is, and was.

And he was also an enforcer/bodyguard and a thug. And a yes man for Saint Hugo, whose face he used more than his own in running his campaign. He called his opponent an offensive-in-the-extreme word connoting homosexuality, which makes him a bigot, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's afraid of Diosdado Cabello, which might account for some of his recent paranoid rantings.

I do know this--now that Hugo's dead, and the chickens of the shitty economy start coming home to roost, the "people" aren't going to blame dead Hugo (who, quite bluntly, owns most of the blame), they're going to blame the Bus Driver. He can't very well turn around and point a finger at Dead Hugo--so he's between an economic rock and a very hard place. And that's happening already.

Which puts either Diosdado or Caprilles in the catbird seat in future. It'll depend on which way the voters want to lean.

The topic isn't what others have done for USA or Europe, or heated comparisons about who did what where--the topic here is Maduro in VZ. Stick to it--or don't, I don't really care.

[Catherina]

6. I said "your elitist remark". The emphasis is on *remark*

I know your reading skills are better than. I've admired them too many times in the past, when we've been on the same side of an issue but also when we haven't.

I don't believe you're an elitist but that remark was elitist. Calling a man, with that many accomplishments, a bus driver, is an elitist tactic to denigrate and put someone back in their place. He hasn't been a bus driver for how how long now? But the sneering elites can only see him as a bus driver, the same way they sneeringly referred to President Jimmy Carter as a peanut farmer.

Shitty economy, coming home to roost... what are you going on about? The people are clothed, fed, medically cared for. The weep and doom forecasts about the shitty economy undoing the Revolution have been going on since 1999 and are all based on neoliberal metrics, the same ones we use here to convince people that highway robbery by bankers and corporations is just a *recession* that we can pay our way out of by giving those same thieves even more.

The real metrics, in my humble populist opinion, are:

- is there a roof over your head?
- is there food on your table?
- are your basic human needs respected as human rights? such as not-for-profit water and affordable food
- can you get medical care?
- can your children get an education?
- do you profit from the majority of your labor or does some leech?

etc... human metrics, not fancy charts and MBA word salads.

The *bus driver*, who too many people feel a need to sneer at for his origins, will do just fine. There are solid reasons the majority of the voters and most of the Latin American leadership are confident about his skills that than those who have long rooted, and are still rooting, for the Bolivarian revolution to fail.

[MADem]

9. Naaah. You then said I was sneering, and you're saying that again. You were making a point

and characterizing me as an elitist.

I'm not sneering, I am describing. And my description is accurate. Maduro doesn't have the background to be President. He doesn't have the intellect, either.

Jimmy Carter was a peanut farmer--it's not an easy job running a large farm. He was also a US Naval Officer in submarines, a VERY hard job, and Governor of Georgia, not a cakewalk, that job, either. There is no comparison between a bus driving bodyguard and Jimmy Carter.

Here's an article that describes, quite succinctly, the problems Maduro faces. Problem Number One is that he's not Hugo, and he doesn't have Hugo's style or charisma. That is a big problem for him and one that is not going away. It could prove to be a "stifling" legacy. The other salient issues include:

THE ECONOMY Chávez would sometimes announce the nationalisation of private companies on his television show Aló Presidente, exclaiming: “Nationalise it!”, recalls JP Rathbone. The leader’s popularity relied on his deep pockets. But the money is running out. “Even with the largest oil reserves in the world, Venezuela has turned to China for $40bn of loans to keep itself going,” Rathbone notes. As well as a yawning fiscal deficit, Venezuela suffers double-digit inflation, shortages of goods like flour, eggs, sugar and gasoline, and multiple exchange rates thanks to five devaluations since strict currency controls were introduced in 2003...And while Chávez was seen “as standing apart from the failings of his government” when it came to the country’s swelling tide of economic problems, Benedict Mander warns that “poor management of the world’s biggest oil reserves is more likely to haunt his successor.” Which brings us neatly on to problem number 3…

OIL PRODUCTION Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, but output has stagnated. PDVSA, the state-owned oil group, was “hollowed out” post-nationalisation, with Chávez sacking 20,000 PDVSA workers in 2002, “including many of its best engineers and managers”. With much of the oil revenue creamed off for Chavez’s social programs, investment and innovation within PDVSA shrank. “The cost to PDVSA’s operational ability has been huge,” according to Benedict Mander.

GOVERNMENT INEFFICIENCY The state’s mismanagement of PDVSA is an example of government incompetence across the economy under Chávez, writes Benedict Mander. “A decade ago, PDVSA was considered one of the best run oil companies in the Americas. Today, inefficiency and incompetence have led to a string of accidents, causing 77 deaths before the Amuay explosion since 2003. The company’s annual report admits a lack of funds has hurt maintenance.” In a damning comment piece for the New York Times, Rory Carroll describes Chávez as “in the final analysis, an awful manager”. He argues that Chávez not only failed to invest in state institutions, he also allowed the country to fall prey to “a new elite with government connections, the “boligarchs,” [who] manipulated government contracts and the web of price and currency controls to finance their lavish lifestyles.”

THE MILITARY Closely linked to the Chavismo factor. While Chávez was a former tank commander who came to power in a military coup, Nicolás Maduro does not enjoy the same relationship with the army, according to Benedict Mander.

“There are concerns in the military high command about Maduro,” says Antonio Rivero, a retired general who left the army in 2010 in protest at Cuban influence, and is now affiliated with the opposition. Some question Mr Maduro’s legitimacy, others his competence, while others are suspicious of his status as a civilian.

CRIME The murder rate in Venezuela tripled in the time Chávez was in office....

http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2013/04/venezuela-six-challenges-for-chavezs-successor/?

Time will tell. I don't think Maduro will last. He will be lucky to make it through one term. He'll crumble under the corruption and waste and mess, or, if he tries to fix it (and I think that's unlikely--he's too busy making what sound like increasingly paranoid pronouncements which will likely be followed by accusations and blame), the Boligarchs will find a way to shuffle him out of power, because they are intent on sucking that place dry. Or maybe the military will push him out of the way...

The only people who truly see him as the "successor" to Hugo are the people who did what Hugo told them to do, which was vote for Maduro. The people in power, I suspect, see him as a tool, a place-holder, a whipping boy, the guy to take the blame when the thing all goes to shit (You--you RUINED Hugo's fabulous legacy!!!) even though most of the blame belongs with poor management that predates his assumption to office.

When Maduro can't trade oil for doctors with Cuba, that medical care is going bye-bye. When he can't pay the state's bills and loans, the "government subsidies" to the poor will take a hike. So will schools, because teachers like to get paid. When the shelves are bare, and people are griping about more than not being able to buy a chicken at the store, there will be some serious discontent, and Maduro will be the guy they blame. VZ's spending has been exceeding their income for some time, eventually, something's gotta give.

[ocpagu]

11. You've just confirmed your elitism, imo...

...by saying "Maduro doesn't have the background to be President. He doesn't have the intellect, either."

The same kind of argument the right-wing used against Lula, former metalworker, in Brazil too.

Now, the "illiterate" metalworker has dozens of degrees honoris causa in the best universities around the world and is praised as the best president of Brazil ever, also internationally recognized as one of the greatest leaders of the 21st century.

[MADem]

12. Well, your opinion and a couple of bucks will buy you a cup of coffee.

It's not "elitist" to note that someone is unqualified for the job.

And it's not the same kind of argument at all. But now you're trying to characterize me as a "right winger" on top of being an "elitist" by suggesting a false association between me and people who criticized a leader of a completely different country (one who was not "illiterate," but largely self-educated, and who wasn't just a "metalworker" but who was a union president of one of the world's largest unions--but never mind those pesky but rather salient facts).

Try being a bit less obvious when you fling that personal shit around--it doesn't help your argument or your standing. I get it, you have a different POV, there's no need to call me names or suggest that I have a bad character to illustrate your disregard for my opinions. A simple "I don't agree with that" will do. Leave the namecalling in the schoolyard.

Time will reveal all, and Maduro's talents--or lack of same--will become evident as the months and years unfold. I can wait. I think my opinions will be proven accurate.

[Catherina]

14. And yet Lulu endorsed him as the better qualified, well qualified, candidate, go figure

"one who was not "illiterate," but largely self-educated, and who wasn't just a "metalworker" but who was a union president of one of the world's largest unions "

THIS ^^^ applies to Nicolas Maduro as well. This ^^^ precisely.

Why do you think this man, Lula, went out of his way to endorse Nicolas Maduro over the eminently better diploma'd Capriles?

Merida, April 3rd 2013 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Luiz Lula da Silva, president of Brazil from 2003 to 1 January 2011, recorded a video message “to the people of Venezuela”, lending his support to candidate for the Venezuelan presidency, Nicolas Maduro, while opposition candidate Henrique Capriles continued to argue for the “Brazilian model”.

“I don’t want to interfere in Venezuela’s internal affairs, but I can’t help making this declaration for the future of a country that is so dear to the Brazilian people,” Lula said

“In the eight years that I was president of Brazil I had the opportunity to spend time with Nicolas Maduro while he was minister for foreign affairs. Maduro stood out brilliantly in the struggle to define Venezuela to the world and in the construction of a more democratic and solidarious Latin America,” he said.

“He played a decisive role in the formation of [regional blocs] UNASUR and CELAC...and his deep bond with our dear and memorable Hugo Chavez was always visible, the two of them shared the same ideas about the future of our continent and the big problems of the world... [and] the challenges that Venezuela is facing...in defence of the poor”.

“Chavez’s great work was the transformation of Venezuela into a more just country...and I’m sure that Maduro as president will be capable of fulfilling the goals of Chavez,” he continued.

“One phrase that sums up everything I feel: Maduro as President; it’s the Venezuela that Chavez dreamed of,”

...

Last year, when Capriles also talked of emulating the Brazilian model in the lead up to the October elections, Valter Pomar, one of the secretaries of the governing Brazilian Workers Party (PT), in power since 2003, rejected Capriles’ comments and said the Brazilian government supported, and identified with the Chavez government.

He said it seemed “funny that the rightwing [of Venezuela] tries to say that it wants to make itself seem similar to what we’re doing in Brazil”.

This work is licensed under a Attribution Non-commercial No Derivatives Creative Commons license


How can you say he's not qualified for the job when, on top of his other accomplishments, he was the Vice President and Chavez right-hand man? His peers leading other countries, who worked with him for years, think he's well qualified. The only people harping on his alleged non-qualification are the opposition


http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/8476

[MADem]

17. Just because a person is NOT illiterate, and NOT 'just a metalworker,'

doesn't make them infallible in all proclamations. The very suggestion that he should endorse the other guy is as stupid as suggesting that Margaret Thatcher might possibly have endorsed Bill Clinton. Her best pal was Reagan, and Bush One was the "heir" to Saint Ronnie, after all. People do tend to stick to their own political territory--left stays left, right stays right--it's not a surprise.

To think otherwise suggests a rather profound lack of understanding as to the political philosophies of the involved individuals in this endorsement and election--we're not talking primary candidates, here.

Ed McMahon couldn't do Johnny Carson's job, either--and he was Johnny's sidekick for many years. The bus driver is no Hugo, and he never will be a Hugo. He's not charismatic enough, he's not smart enough, he doesn't have the loyalty of the military, and he is out of his league. And he's also saying some crazy stuff lately.

If I were a Machiavellian type, I would wonder if Maduro is being set up to be the patsy--that a coup is on its way, with Diosdado Cabello being "installed" for the "good of the country" to restore the Principles of Chavismo that were squandered by Maduro. Of course, they'd have to leave him in place for a while, and let things get even worse, with more violence, more unrest, more shortages... so they can blame what is really Chavez's bad economy on him.

Then, if the rumors are true, that Chavez actually died earlier than was admitted, they could also bring all that up, show proof of it, get a few witnesses to come forward, accuse Maduro of lying to the people, and further blame Maduro as someone who unduly influenced el commandante when he was in a weakened state, and essentially negate his claim as heir to Hugo's crown.

Who knows? It's a wild scenario, but we've seen this kind of script play out before--and Maduro has been babbling about poisonings and people trying to kill him. The kind of shit that frightened, paranoid guys say....one has to wonder who has been whispering in his ear, scaring the crap out of him, and why they're doing that.

The crazier Maduro starts to sound, the more whiney and complaining he comes across, the less he'll be missed if they decide to shove him off the national stage.

[Catherina]

21. None of that explaining how the *bus driver* is not qualified for the job

And of course, left stays left, right stays right. That's how it is and supposed to be here too no? Except that when it comes to foreign countries, all of a sudden it's ok to support neoconservative/neoliberal elites whose biggest backers are the neoconservatives and neoliberals who destroyed our own country.

Maduro has already started quite well though you wouldn't know it by the soundbytes the US media cherrypicks and amplifies. Latin America is more united than ever with even right wing countries telling us to mind our own problems instead of agitating for our own interests. Simon Bolivar's dream is marching on as they wrestle free of our interference and Maduro will be instrumental in that.

[MADem]

24. What part of 'Ed McMahon was no Johnny Carson' wasn't clear to you?

Jesus, must everything be spelled out in nitpicky fashion? You can't be that obtuse.

Maduro has neither the charisma nor the political skill to succeed Hugo Chavez. He is a dullard of a speaker, a whiny paranoid guy who thinks everyone is out to get him, and he does not have the confidence of the military. He didn't even have the roaring endorsement from his regional neighbors--he got the "Oh well, close enough" endorsement.

He didn't start out "quite well." That's just bull. His neighbors agreed to support him for the sake of stability--not because they were thrilled and enthusiastic about the election result.

Let's start with some truths here, and that's a big one. This "rosy scenario" nonsense is just not accurate. http://news.yahoo.com/south-american-leaders-likely-back-venezuelas-maduro-emergency-200155271.html

Do read the whole article, each paragraph. We ARE "minding our own business." Pay particular attention to the paragraph that includes the prhase "avoid a pissing contest."

The only one shopping conspiracy theories about the Evil USA is Maduro, trying to distract from the reality of a shitty economy, an inefficient government, domestic strife, crime, a disaffected population in an effort to keep the sheeple focused on an outer "enemy" rather than the realities of the internal fuckup that is VZ these days.

[Catherina]

25. We're going to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that n/t

[Bacchus4.0]

26. probably a good idea since you've been thoroughly schooled n/t

s

[mecherosegarden]

28. I beg to differ.

He hasn't started quite well. He has insulted people from other countries, such as Peru , for example . If you read the Venezuela's newspapers, you would see how ill prepare he is . Today , he said that Sucre was born in Caracas. I don't expect you to know who Sucre was, this is knowledge that we acquire as a children .There is a state that bears this name. Not knowing where the Gran Mariscal de Ayacucho was born, saying things like" estado Cumana" ( which is a city and not a state), saying that he wanted his hear to be " examined by a telescope" , all the "burradas " that he say every day, are proof that he is not prepare to run a country. I do recognize that Chavez did good things for Venezuela, but failing to recognize that Maduro is no Chavez, is a mistake. It is a red flag to me to listen a congresswoman form Venezuela saying that " all the young people should be proud to be signing the Cuban National Athen." And all the irregularities with the elections that were labeled by some foreign observers as " clean". Please! People who has been dead for years "voting;" people who have several " cedulas" voting, foreigners voting, People who is alive and declared dead so they couldn't vote . ...and so on.

[reorg]

29. got any links?

for your allegations that

- 'people who has (sic) been dead for years voting'
- 'people who have several "cedulas"'
- 'people who is (sic) alive and declared dead so they could vote' (what the hell does that even mean???)

I'm not aware of a single case like any of the above that has been reported. Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me.

[Marksman_91]

31. Here's a video of him referring to certain places that are NOT states as states.

And here's one where he wrongly talks about Antonio Jose de Sucre.

And he posted on his twitter that over 100 million indígenas were exterminated by the "Indigenous Holocaust" after Columbus's arrival. While it's true that many of them were indeed killed by the Spanish settlers, they sure as hell were NOT over 100 million.

https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro

The man is an ignorant fool. I'm sure you wouldn't want an ignorant fool like him to be your president now, would you? And this is nothing against his profession as a bus driver. I'm sure there have been plenty of world leaders that started from the bottom and worked themselves up. Maduro, on the other hand, only stayed at the bottom, and got to where he is due to his close relationship with Chávez.

Let's not forget he admittedly showed up at a private performance of the Cirque Du Soleil show "Dralion" that was recently playing in Caracas. I'm pretty sure that's a show that only the rich (read, "burgueses&quot can afford to go to, so it's kinda hypocritical on his part to partake in "burgues" activities when he speaks so offensively against them.

http://globovision.com/articulo/presidente-nicolas-maduro-habria-asistido-este-martes-al-cirque-du-soleil

[Judi Lynn]

32. Thanks for setting everyone straight on what happened to the indigenous population

throughout the Americas after Columbus arrived.

All those people who populated the continents from sea sea, pole to pole probably got bad colds and didn't take care of themselves properly. Or maybe it was too much fast food. The stories of massacres upon massacres upon slavery, upon suicides, upon degredation, upon genocide throughout the Americas are probably anti-parasite lies.

[center][/center]

[joshcryer]

13. This is the same poster who thinks the bus driver influenced Chavez.

As if the idiot bus driver had even one iota of the intellect of Chavez. Chavez could do 8 hour eloquent speeches while this bus driver can barely mutter ten sentences without saying something insane. Chavez' ratings were steady his whole tenure even as crime went up and even as inflation exploded. Maduro's ratings are falling rapidly and he's already in the 40%, which is very bad news for him, he's another Bush, an illegitimate idiot moron. I just hope he doesn't go down in a coup but is recalled in 2 years when his ratings are in the utter shitter.

[MADem]

15. I think the bus driver is frightened of the military.

I have to wonder if Diosdado is jumping for joy...he has strong connections with the military, and he could probably persuade them to lock everything down for the "good of the country."

Let's hope Maduro has a food taster....

Maduro did, quite recently, put a bunch of senior military leaders "under investigation" for suspicion of disloyalty. He does have something to be worried about from that sector, I think.

"We have a Chavista armed forces, which is to say patriotic, Bolivarian, revolutionary, anti-imperialist," Maduro said Tuesday.

But cracks also have appeared on the facade of unity.

Maduro revealed in the same remarks that "a small group of military officers is under investigation" for contacts with the opposition, which he accused of attempting to stage a coup d'etat in refusing to recognize his victory in Sunday's snap elections.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/130418/troop-loyalty-challenge-venezuelas-maduro

[joshcryer]

16. I think Diosdado would be a prime candidate for a coup.

But he'd have to blame it on the opposition somehow. Get a scapegoat from the opposition to act the fool. Have Maduro arrested, then, kill him in jail or something. Then, because he's second in charge, take over and run for the Presidency. Or better yet, since the Supreme Court is chavista, have them argue that the AN can be in charge for 6 years as opposed to the 30 days that the constitution says.

Of the 42 officers promoted to Brigadier General recently, 36 of them were in Diosdado's class of '87. This is no coincidence. Diosdado knows these guys, trusts theses guys, and has basically the military in his hands.

[MADem]

19. I came up with a script just upthread.

Foment a bit of violence, shortages, disarray...get people to say that Chavez died earlier than the published date, and Maduro ordered a cover-up...have people (and all his "people" are Hugo's, actually--not "his&quot tell him silly stuff like "Chavez was poisoned" and "Uribe is trying to kill you" so that he takes to the airwaves and repeats it, frantically, like a crazy person...

When daily life gets bad enough, and Maduro sounds crazy enough, the military pounces, removes him, and installs the next guy in line--Cabello. "SEE?" says the military...."We didn't want to seize power, we're letting the succession process go forward ...we just wanted to get that crazy guy out of the way, in honor of Hugo's legacy..." Then, Diosdado gets up and blames all the misery on Maduro. "Things were swell under Hugo, and Maduro ruined it. It'll take a while, and much sacrifice, but we'll get back to those days again." Anytime anyone says "Shit, I got a bigger dole check under Hugo" the answer will be "Blame Maduro."

It's like Turkey, only with a bit less due process.

[Catherina]

18. Benedict Mander, 2002 coupster Antonio Rivero, Rory Carroll all in one place

Benedict Mander, Rory Carroll, and 2002 coupster and current criminal agitator Antonio Rivero, all in one place. The same rightwing talking points they flooded the country with for over a decade. That article is the equivalent of AP's brilliant analysis

Chavez invested Venezuela's oil wealth into social programs including state-run food markets, cash benefits for poor families, free health clinics and education programs. But those gains were meager compared with the spectacular construction projects that oil riches spurred in glittering Middle Eastern cities, including the world's tallest building in Dubai and plans for branches of the Louvre and Guggenheim museums in Abu Dhabi.

He wasted money on the poor! Maduro's going to waste more on the poor! OMG, what kind of monsters have priorities like that?!

I really can't do this right now. We'll leave this one to time will tell.

[MADem]

20. It's not the money for the POOR that is the problem. Hello...????

It is the money going to the Boligarchs. It's the waste. The inefficiency.

The blatant thievery--tons of it. Waste, corruption, graft, greed.

[Catherina]

22. The poor know very well which party represented the bigger thieves

and they voted their interests. They're not stupid, they know which party has been providing housing, healthcare, education, food... and which party tells them they're not good enough to even live in the same districts.

[MADem]

23. When the poor stop getting their services because Maduro has run the joint into the ground,

you can be damn sure he'll hear from them--if he lasts that long.

You really are not taking the points I am making. Please read the excerpt from the article I provided above--the one that talks about THE ECONOMY and GOVERNMENT INEFFICIENCY.

That's where the shit will hit the fan--not with "the poor."

If the country were properly run, there'd be plenty of money for "the poor." But it's not properly run, and that is why they are going broke in a hurry.

[Catherina]

27. No thanks. I've read all that b4 and am familiar with the people hawking their interpretations n/t

[MADem]

30. These aren't "interpretations." The inflation rate, the crime rate, the lack of a money supply, the

absence of goods on shelves....these are quantifiable problems, not "opinions" or "interpretations."

[Marksman_91]

33. Those problems are all "fabrications" by the right-wing media.

Either that, or it's the Cuarta República's fault. That's how all these hardcore leftists think about this regime. They're too proud of their ideology to think that any government that (supposedly) implements purely left-wing policies can fail.

[MADem]

34. I have to wonder how they're going to fabricate dole checks,

and chicken, rice and beans for the market shelves!

The government would probably have had a good chance of success with some (not all, but many) of their policies if they had only not permitted all the graft and corruption, not nationalized every frigging thing and appointed either idiots or greedy thieves to oversee the industries, and watched their spending. They also need to stop being a vassal state to Cuba and stop handing over so damn much of their oil revenue without anything of equal value being provided in return--that "doctors" program is nice, and it does provide assistance to the poor in the countryside, but it's not worth what they are paying for it (plus, many of the doctors are forced to do it and they're not happy about it). Cuba is robbing them blind. They'd do better to set up a couple of medical schools IN VZ and grow more of their own doctors, nurses, and physician's assistants.

There's no auditing, no oversight, and they're too eager to placate on the one hand, and unwilling to tackle serious issues like crime and drug abuse and outright graft/corruption/theft on the other. It's a recipe for failure. One day the Chinese are going to say no, and then they'll be in a real fix.

It's just a shittily run outfit; that's the biggest problem. One's heart can be in the right place, but if one lacks the business acumen to realize one's goals, the thing is going to go all pear-shaped in a hurry. I do think Maduro is being set up to take the fall, and perhaps some of his paranoid rantings are because he's starting to feel that way, too.

[Bacchus4.0]

7. the Bus Driver is afraid of his own shadow n/t

s

[MADem]

10. I think he has reason to be--the military doesn't like him, and we know how that can end...

Even those bozos at the fawned-over Putin News Service (I can't understand why people love the stuff this propaganda outfit puts out, but whatever) are telling him he's got a short time to get his shit together or he'll be out on his ass:
http://rt.com/op-edge/maduro-president-venezuela-election-reaction-883/

The author of "The Enduring Legacy, Oil, Culture and Society in Venezuela" believes the man to substitute Hugo Chavez at the helm the South American country, Nicolas Maduro, will have little time to implement all the needed changes. Unless he fails to address the problems of corruption, crime and infrastructure he could be recalled from his post in three years.

...The team around Maduro is actually the most important issue, and it has been proven. They are part of the same team that has been around Hugo Chavez, they include military individuals, part of the coalition that was governing, part of the bureaucracy includes Gustavo Cabello, who was a member of Chavez’s group as well as other individuals who all come from the military and who now have important posts. I think we will see a continuation of that governing coalition and of that leadership body.

And that is the "sunny" assessment!

[Judi Lynn]

8. "Mr Uribe - a fierce critic of President Chavez - " knows very well

the rest of the world, or at least those who bother to keep up, know very well about the mob of Colombian death squad members which went into Venezuela, coordinated by plans partially concocted by Venzuelan oligarchs, as per testimony of the fighters, themselves, and lived in quanset huts on the estate of Cuban-Venezuelan-Miami-connected opposition member, Roberto Alonso. There they trained, organized for their plot to break into a National Guard armory, steal 2000 rifles, ammunition, prior to their assault on Miraflores where they intended to kill Hugo Chavez and secure the government for the opposition.

After follow-up on a tip-off, the Venezuelan government raided the place, arrested the members, interrogated them, and imprisoned them. At some point later, Chavez allowed many of them to return home, saying they were actually not responsible for the plot themselves.

There were protests in the streets by Venezuelan people against the reality foreign fighters actually had invaded their own country to murder their president.

At some point Uribe was obligated to meet with President Chavez, to be confronted in a six hour meeting with him and to apologize for what had happened.

Before and after that event, Colombian paramilitaries have been caught in groups inside Venezuela on their own missions to harm government officials in other areas, and others to make their way to Caracas, as well. In one case a number of them were found with stolen cars, phony I.D.,s, guns, ammunition, after securing housing inside the city.

This is NOT hard to swallow, not one bit, based upon PAST events already known to the Latin American public, not the propaganda-fed U.S. public, obviously.