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Mika

(17,751 posts)
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 11:48 AM Feb 2014

Genesis Carmona (Ven beauty queen) shot from behind by opposition.

Looks like the Popular Will/ Lopez thugs needed a martyr for the press to frenzy over...


On Tuesday Genesis Carmona, a student and former beauty queen, was shot during an opposition march in Valencia. According to national newspaper Ultimas Noticias, witnesses said an armed pro-government group attacked the march. However authorities say ballistic investigations show the woman was shot from behind “from within opposition ranks”, and claim that witnesses on the scene have confirmed this.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10382



43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Genesis Carmona (Ven beauty queen) shot from behind by opposition. (Original Post) Mika Feb 2014 OP
Whose experts? Perhaps there should be a truly independent examination of the facts. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #1
I'm surprised that Venezuela Analysis COLGATE4 Feb 2014 #2
OMG!!!! springchick Feb 2014 #3
OMG!!!!! You actually believe what the Right Wing puppets of the wealthy Western sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #5
So I'll put you in the catagory of believing what the govt. investigators tell you. springchick Feb 2014 #7
You can put me in the category of never believing paid-for, violent Right Wing puppets sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #9
It's not the RW saying that the opposition shot this woman, springchick Feb 2014 #11
I believe what her friends who went with her to the demonstration say ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #18
Hi there springchick. I'm happy to know that you don't salivate for a coup, delrem Feb 2014 #22
I'll watch it, springchick Feb 2014 #23
Why do you believe anything, springchick? And with such vehemence? nt delrem Feb 2014 #24
I believe them over the right wing media. SolutionisSolidarity Feb 2014 #28
Posting BS, I see? And from a very well-known propaganda site? Marksman_91 Feb 2014 #4
Got something from a non-Right Wing propaganda source to sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #6
Do you have something to prove that the opposition shot this poor woman? springchick Feb 2014 #8
I believe my question has not been answered. Do you believe anything coming sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #10
About as much as I believe that the opposition shot and killed this woman. springchick Feb 2014 #12
Do you have something proving that the opposition shot and killed this poor woman? springchick Feb 2014 #13
Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #14
It would seem so, springchick Feb 2014 #15
Do you have anything to prove that this poor woman was shot by sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #35
Projectile entered the skull from behind. rdharma Feb 2014 #16
So what? It's quite logic when you're running away from people who are shooting at you ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #17
And the RW golpistas use the front line protesters as cover from return fire....... rdharma Feb 2014 #19
There are no security forces involved in this killing, just PSUV militants ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #20
OR... RW golpistas were responsible...... rdharma Feb 2014 #21
I believe her family and her friends who were with her ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #25
So give me the link to find out what "friends and family" said about shooting...... rdharma Feb 2014 #26
How about a link from an Uruguayan site? That unbiased enough for you? Marksman_91 Feb 2014 #29
Where does it say they saw who shot her? rdharma Feb 2014 #30
Perhaps you didn't read well, his brother says: ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #36
Cheap sarcasm, no dharma ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #37
People also run away in a straight line. joshcryer Feb 2014 #32
That other student was also shot in the back. joshcryer Feb 2014 #33
Not surprising. SolutionisSolidarity Feb 2014 #27
The only people seen shooting are chavistas. joshcryer Feb 2014 #31
Very appropriate statement from President Maduro quoted in the article: Judi Lynn Feb 2014 #34
"Hugo Chavez Battle Units prepare for the fulminant counter-attack. ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #38
The fucked up part is we'd condemn it instantly if we saw it. joshcryer Feb 2014 #39
Imagine an opposition leader calling "battle units" for a "contreataque fulminante" through twitter ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #40
'Plotters inside the government'. Does anyone doubt that at this point in Venezuela's sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #42
'Plotters inside the government'. Does anyone doubt that at this point in Venezuela's sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #42
Who can forget that sweet law student, leader of LUZ opposition activists at Maracaibo, Judi Lynn Feb 2014 #41

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
2. I'm surprised that Venezuela Analysis
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 12:46 PM
Feb 2014

didn't decide to print that she probably shot herself in order to become a martyr for the cause. Venezuela Analysis - the Fox News of Venezuela.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
5. OMG!!!!! You actually believe what the Right Wing puppets of the wealthy Western
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:38 PM
Feb 2014

Global Oil Cartels have to say? Truly, to quote you, 'unfuckingbelievable'.

 

springchick

(137 posts)
7. So I'll put you in the catagory of believing what the govt. investigators tell you.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:45 PM
Feb 2014

You actually believe the investigators saying that the opposition shot this poor woman?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
9. You can put me in the category of never believing paid-for, violent Right Wing puppets
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:55 PM
Feb 2014

in that part of the world. See, I remember when they tried to claim that Chavez 'stole' his elections and I remember their spokespeople on right wing forums here in the US working hard to push their agenda. Then I remember their lies being completely debunked by extremely credible, International election observers, which only made their lies look foolish. Because contrary to their claimed 'expertise' Venezuela's elections were declared to be the most free of corruption, certainly way more than our own right here, of any democracy putting the liars to shame.

So forgive me if I reject right winger 'reports' on anything that has to do with Venezuela or any other oil producing nation.

Surely you, I'm assuming you are not a right winger since you are posting here, do not support the well known right wing puppets in Latin America. I've never known a democrat who was not fully informed of the history of that region of the world.

 

springchick

(137 posts)
11. It's not the RW saying that the opposition shot this woman,
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:59 PM
Feb 2014

it's the government investigators saying this.
What I support is fair elections in Venezuela, which have been the case in recent history and if the people of Venezuela elect someone from the opposition fairly, then I have no problem as long as it's a clean and open process.

ChangoLoa

(2,010 posts)
18. I believe what her friends who went with her to the demonstration say
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:36 PM
Feb 2014

The students are constantly shooting themselves by behind without nobody never being able to see who shoots... right.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
22. Hi there springchick. I'm happy to know that you don't salivate for a coup,
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 04:15 PM
Feb 2014

and that you respect the democratically elected gov't of Maduro.

But given that, why do you automatically assume the worst, expressing "OMG!!!!" incredulism that others don't?

I ask you, again, to watch the documentary "The Revolution Won't be Televised", recently posted to this group -- or easily found on the net. It gives the clearest evidence that *anyone* could ask for, even the most skeptical anti-Bolivarian contra type, for why pro-Bolivarian leftists find these kinds of inflammatory reports dubious, at best. Why not watch the documentary, study the facts about Latin American right-wing tactics? What could you lose?

 

springchick

(137 posts)
23. I'll watch it,
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 04:19 PM
Feb 2014

but I don't believe a govt investigated report claiming she was shot from behind by the opposition.

28. I believe them over the right wing media.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 06:42 PM
Feb 2014

I've already seen how they manipulate the truth.

Watch The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. There was an Irish documentary team there when the last coup was attempted 12 years ago. The RW media showed images making it look like Chavez aligned protesters were firing at opposition protesters. The Irish team caught the other angle of that, proving conclusively that they were returning fire at snipers who had first opened fire on them first, and that there were no protesters in the vicinity of where the Chavez protesters were firing.

[link:

|
 

Marksman_91

(2,035 posts)
4. Posting BS, I see? And from a very well-known propaganda site?
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:27 PM
Feb 2014

I honestly thought you'd know better.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
6. Got something from a non-Right Wing propaganda source to
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:39 PM
Feb 2014

prove THEIR claims regarding this tragic death, or are we supposed to just believe Venezuela's version of right wing teabaggers?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
10. I believe my question has not been answered. Do you believe anything coming
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 01:56 PM
Feb 2014

from right wing puppets of the Western Global Cartels?

Response to springchick (Reply #13)

 

springchick

(137 posts)
15. It would seem so,
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 02:08 PM
Feb 2014

but I'm more that willing to listen to her if she has proof that the opposition was responsible for her death and not govt. forces or those aligned with those same forces.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
35. Do you have anything to prove that this poor woman was shot by
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 01:45 AM
Feb 2014

government forces? I haven't you post anything from a credible source to prove that.

Like you, I do not know who shot her. But you are ready to believe anything told to you by questionable sources. I know this, I am more likely to believe ANYONE over Right Wing puppets.

ChangoLoa

(2,010 posts)
17. So what? It's quite logic when you're running away from people who are shooting at you
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:33 PM
Feb 2014

Bassil Dacosta too was shot from behind.

That's the cowardice of these PSUV militias.
They pretend to defend the "revolution" by shooting unarmed people in the back.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
19. And the RW golpistas use the front line protesters as cover from return fire.......
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:45 PM
Feb 2014

.... to shoot at security forces from behind "human shields".

They could have accidentally shot Carmona while shooting at security forces...... or they could have shot her in order to blame it on the security forces.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
26. So give me the link to find out what "friends and family" said about shooting......
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:37 PM
Feb 2014

I'd like to see those "eye-witness" accounts.

TIA!

 

Marksman_91

(2,035 posts)
29. How about a link from an Uruguayan site? That unbiased enough for you?
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 06:58 PM
Feb 2014
http://www.elpais.com.uy/mundo/genesis-carmona-hermana-asesinada-marcha.html

All her family and friends say it was the madurista colectivos who started shooting at protesters that got her. And she was shot in the head. A close friend of hers who was protesting alongside tweeted the whole thing as her condition got worse, and he mentions the bullet in her head quite a few times.
 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
30. Where does it say they saw who shot her?
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 07:14 PM
Feb 2014

I thought eye-witnesses (including family members) saw it happen and could identify the shooters. Evidently not so.

Just as I thought...... "shots were fired and she was hit in the head"....... but who fired the shots?

ChangoLoa

(2,010 posts)
36. Perhaps you didn't read well, his brother says:
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:34 AM
Feb 2014

Jorge Alberto Carmona dijo también a TN que su hermana fue asesinada por enviados del Gobierno: "Es la misma gente que sale a la calle mandada por el Gobierno, apoyadas por ellos, que salen a hacer de las suyas. Mi hermana nunca salió a la calle a marchar por temor a que sucediera lo que finalmente sucedió. Pero ayer salimos en familia porque no aguantábamos más" dijo.

Everyone could identify the group of shooters, they were even filmed by the neighbors. But precisely who fired the killer shot out of the 10 gunmen who were shooting against the demonstrators that day, it's impossible to say. Many were wounded.

Obviously, the PSUV party-state-government-judiciary system will "show" once again that the shot came from the demonstrators' side. Nothing surprising, they have ALWAYS done the same. All I can say is what a coincidence! This (people getting shot) always happens precisely at the same moment that PSUV militias start shooting.

So what do you think? That the PSUV shooters have such bad aim that they never manage to hit a demonstrator while, at the same time, the opposition shooters hide in the students' march waiting for the first shots to start from the side of the PSUV militias in order to commit their useful murders?

Seriously?

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
32. People also run away in a straight line.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:32 PM
Feb 2014

People provoking tend to jump around, back and forth, making them a hard target. But once they start to run they just bee-line it out of there.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
31. The only people seen shooting are chavistas.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:29 PM
Feb 2014

There are videos in spanzas thread. Simply being shot in the back of the head proves nothing.

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
34. Very appropriate statement from President Maduro quoted in the article:
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:16 AM
Feb 2014
President Maduro repeated his stance tonight that armed opposition groups, armed pro-government groups, and state security forces that fire weapons during protests will not be tolerated. “I won’t protect anyone in this country who fires during protests,” he said.

Maduro appeared to refer to an incident on 12 February in Caracas, with video evidence suggesting that several intelligence service (SEBIN) officers fired at a group of opposition protesters. All SEBIN officers were under presidential orders to remain indoors that day.

“I asked that no one go out onto the street, less so with guns. And they went out with guns. Ah, it looks a lot like the format of the state coup [of April 2002]. I’m investigating all of this, and if elements [of an inside plot] appeared I’d say it to my country…that there are plotters inside the government or that an officer has been bought. I’d say it with all of the willpower I have,” he stated.
Put the remaining scum into a catapult and launch them all off to South Florida to ooze into the pond with the others.

It has been noted for years and years that the right-wing offal of the Americas sooner or later digs in in Florida, all the death squad killers, torturers, brutal child murderers, village burners, vicious little murderous US-supported Presidents and Vice Presidents and cabinet members, etc., etc., etc. Without a doubt the slime which burned down homes in Venezuela with the residents still in them during the April elections should be running there soon, too, if their repeated efforts finally fail them.

They should ALL have been imprisoned so long ago, but many of them find haven here, unfortunately.

Thank you for this helpful information, Mika.

ChangoLoa

(2,010 posts)
38. "Hugo Chavez Battle Units prepare for the fulminant counter-attack.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:56 AM
Feb 2014

Diosdado will give the orders"

No one says Maduro the puppet was behind the killings. The one we're pointing at in this particular case is called Ameliach and he's the PSUV governor of the state where Genesis Carmona got killed. He called the shooters who were there shooting against the demonstrators - the battle units of his party - to prepare for a fulminant counter-attack. What more do you need to understand?

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
39. The fucked up part is we'd condemn it instantly if we saw it.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:13 AM
Feb 2014

But they can't condemn it when we have video proof. High definition video proof at that.

They can't condemn willful murder of someone. It's beyond imaginable how deeply they believe in the chavista line.

ChangoLoa

(2,010 posts)
40. Imagine an opposition leader calling "battle units" for a "contreataque fulminante" through twitter
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:23 AM
Feb 2014

The worshipers here would applaud if he'd get life in prison for high treason. That's why these people have no credibility whatsoever outside their own little chappel. Because they talk about justice but act unfairly. They fill their mouths with equality but constantly use a double standard to judge people and events. Otherwise, wouldn't they strongly condemn Ameliach for such a fascist murderous twitt? They are like a cancer for the left.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
42. 'Plotters inside the government'. Does anyone doubt that at this point in Venezuela's
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:49 PM
Feb 2014

history? First thing that occurred to me frankly due to the pattern of these attempted coups.

So he gave orders NOT to fire on protesters and his orders were violated. Well, who would ignore orders from Maduro? It's not difficult to answer that question.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
42. 'Plotters inside the government'. Does anyone doubt that at this point in Venezuela's
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:49 PM
Feb 2014

history? First thing that occurred to me frankly due to the pattern of these attempted coups.

So he gave orders NOT to fire on protesters and his orders were violated. Well, who would ignore orders from Maduro? It's not difficult to answer that question.

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
41. Who can forget that sweet law student, leader of LUZ opposition activists at Maracaibo,
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:24 AM
Feb 2014

the enduring sweetness of Julio Soto?

His name was thoughtfully provided here by a right-winger hoping to convince DU'ers that this lad had been assassinated by the Chavez administration because he had been active in opposition anti-Chavez violence at the university there, like cornering pro-Chavez students in a building, cutting the electricity, water, surrounding the building, and setting fires outside the window.

Yes, that brave law student, Julio Soto.

At some point it became clear he had been involved with a gang of professional criminals, had been selling on the black market lots of the government-subsidized bus tickets meant to be used by the students to allow them cheaper transportation, since many are on budgets. He had also been connected to drugs, and the sale of stolen cars. When they investigated the numbers on his cell phone, the numbers led them directly to some rogue cops, and various other P.O.S.'s, whom they scooped up and took to jail, and prosecuted.

During the time immediately after Julio Soto, right-winger trolls here got right to work throwing their usual lies and other fecal material at Hugo Chavez, working away on their pile of lies. The opposition students in Maracaibo had a procession in the streets, even dragging out Julio Soto's dear old dad to join them, and they all had their pathetic signs mourning the lost of Soto at the hands of the Chavez government. Apparently they never had a correction march with their signs reading "Oops!"

The right-wing troll here didn't miss a beat in blaming Chavez for the death by switching immediately to blaming Chavez for not controlling crime in Venezuela. Crime and criminals like Julio Soto.

Not a word seemed to be written in English in the corporate media here about the findings of the investigation. Quelle surprise.

Here's one thread regarding this pathetic ass-holery:


Investigations Reveal Illicit Business of Murdered Venezuelan Student Leader
October 7th 2008, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com

Mérida, October 6, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com)-- ... According to CICPC investigators, the call history and number directory in Soto's cell phone reveal that Soto had contacts with members of the Zulia state police who are also involved in the illicit production and sale of government-subsidized student transportation tickets ...

Moreover, on his personal blog, Soto had written that he received death threats a week before his murder, a fact confirmed by his fellow student leaders.

The blog also showed Soto's ties to two opposition parties, COPEI and Un Nuevo Tiempo, which have been in conflict over party candidates and political agendas for the upcoming regional and local elections.

It is suspected that Soto was killed by a hired assassin involved in the mafia that regulates illicit business activity within the university ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x8763

There are other threads for anyone who wants to see other articles.

[center]

~click for photo~

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ReVEcAnCs2o/SZHCsQg40PI/AAAAAAAAB_c/4nsWd8x68RU/s320/Julio%2520Soto.preview



Julio, we never knew ye! Rest in peace.



Julio Soto's car, after it was NOT shot by an assassin working for the Venezuelan President.



Students driven mad with grief over the loss
of glorious, and loved of God LUZ leader, and
law student entrepreneur, Julio Soto. [/center]
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