Latin America
Related: About this forumGenesis Carmona (Ven beauty queen) shot from behind by opposition.
Looks like the Popular Will/ Lopez thugs needed a martyr for the press to frenzy over...
On Tuesday Genesis Carmona, a student and former beauty queen, was shot during an opposition march in Valencia. According to national newspaper Ultimas Noticias, witnesses said an armed pro-government group attacked the march. However authorities say ballistic investigations show the woman was shot from behind from within opposition ranks, and claim that witnesses on the scene have confirmed this.
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10382
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)didn't decide to print that she probably shot herself in order to become a martyr for the cause. Venezuela Analysis - the Fox News of Venezuela.
springchick
(137 posts)You actually believe what the govern. investigators say?
Truly unfuckingbelievable.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Global Oil Cartels have to say? Truly, to quote you, 'unfuckingbelievable'.
springchick
(137 posts)You actually believe the investigators saying that the opposition shot this poor woman?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in that part of the world. See, I remember when they tried to claim that Chavez 'stole' his elections and I remember their spokespeople on right wing forums here in the US working hard to push their agenda. Then I remember their lies being completely debunked by extremely credible, International election observers, which only made their lies look foolish. Because contrary to their claimed 'expertise' Venezuela's elections were declared to be the most free of corruption, certainly way more than our own right here, of any democracy putting the liars to shame.
So forgive me if I reject right winger 'reports' on anything that has to do with Venezuela or any other oil producing nation.
Surely you, I'm assuming you are not a right winger since you are posting here, do not support the well known right wing puppets in Latin America. I've never known a democrat who was not fully informed of the history of that region of the world.
springchick
(137 posts)it's the government investigators saying this.
What I support is fair elections in Venezuela, which have been the case in recent history and if the people of Venezuela elect someone from the opposition fairly, then I have no problem as long as it's a clean and open process.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)The students are constantly shooting themselves by behind without nobody never being able to see who shoots... right.
delrem
(9,688 posts)and that you respect the democratically elected gov't of Maduro.
But given that, why do you automatically assume the worst, expressing "OMG!!!!" incredulism that others don't?
I ask you, again, to watch the documentary "The Revolution Won't be Televised", recently posted to this group -- or easily found on the net. It gives the clearest evidence that *anyone* could ask for, even the most skeptical anti-Bolivarian contra type, for why pro-Bolivarian leftists find these kinds of inflammatory reports dubious, at best. Why not watch the documentary, study the facts about Latin American right-wing tactics? What could you lose?
springchick
(137 posts)but I don't believe a govt investigated report claiming she was shot from behind by the opposition.
delrem
(9,688 posts)SolutionisSolidarity
(606 posts)I've already seen how they manipulate the truth.
Watch The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. There was an Irish documentary team there when the last coup was attempted 12 years ago. The RW media showed images making it look like Chavez aligned protesters were firing at opposition protesters. The Irish team caught the other angle of that, proving conclusively that they were returning fire at snipers who had first opened fire on them first, and that there were no protesters in the vicinity of where the Chavez protesters were firing.
[link:
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)I honestly thought you'd know better.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)prove THEIR claims regarding this tragic death, or are we supposed to just believe Venezuela's version of right wing teabaggers?
springchick
(137 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)from right wing puppets of the Western Global Cartels?
springchick
(137 posts)springchick
(137 posts)Response to springchick (Reply #13)
Post removed
springchick
(137 posts)but I'm more that willing to listen to her if she has proof that the opposition was responsible for her death and not govt. forces or those aligned with those same forces.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)government forces? I haven't you post anything from a credible source to prove that.
Like you, I do not know who shot her. But you are ready to believe anything told to you by questionable sources. I know this, I am more likely to believe ANYONE over Right Wing puppets.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)And that is clear to see.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)Bassil Dacosta too was shot from behind.
That's the cowardice of these PSUV militias.
They pretend to defend the "revolution" by shooting unarmed people in the back.
rdharma
(6,057 posts).... to shoot at security forces from behind "human shields".
They could have accidentally shot Carmona while shooting at security forces...... or they could have shot her in order to blame it on the security forces.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts).... which is highly likely!
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)Believe the Minister if you like.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)I'd like to see those "eye-witness" accounts.
TIA!
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)All her family and friends say it was the madurista colectivos who started shooting at protesters that got her. And she was shot in the head. A close friend of hers who was protesting alongside tweeted the whole thing as her condition got worse, and he mentions the bullet in her head quite a few times.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)I thought eye-witnesses (including family members) saw it happen and could identify the shooters. Evidently not so.
Just as I thought...... "shots were fired and she was hit in the head"....... but who fired the shots?
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)Jorge Alberto Carmona dijo también a TN que su hermana fue asesinada por enviados del Gobierno: "Es la misma gente que sale a la calle mandada por el Gobierno, apoyadas por ellos, que salen a hacer de las suyas. Mi hermana nunca salió a la calle a marchar por temor a que sucediera lo que finalmente sucedió. Pero ayer salimos en familia porque no aguantábamos más" dijo.
Everyone could identify the group of shooters, they were even filmed by the neighbors. But precisely who fired the killer shot out of the 10 gunmen who were shooting against the demonstrators that day, it's impossible to say. Many were wounded.
Obviously, the PSUV party-state-government-judiciary system will "show" once again that the shot came from the demonstrators' side. Nothing surprising, they have ALWAYS done the same. All I can say is what a coincidence! This (people getting shot) always happens precisely at the same moment that PSUV militias start shooting.
So what do you think? That the PSUV shooters have such bad aim that they never manage to hit a demonstrator while, at the same time, the opposition shooters hide in the students' march waiting for the first shots to start from the side of the PSUV militias in order to commit their useful murders?
Seriously?
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)Sad...
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)People provoking tend to jump around, back and forth, making them a hard target. But once they start to run they just bee-line it out of there.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Again, video in spanzas thread.
SolutionisSolidarity
(606 posts)Different decade, same dirty tricks.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)There are videos in spanzas thread. Simply being shot in the back of the head proves nothing.
Judi Lynn
(160,516 posts)President Maduro repeated his stance tonight that armed opposition groups, armed pro-government groups, and state security forces that fire weapons during protests will not be tolerated. I wont protect anyone in this country who fires during protests, he said.Put the remaining scum into a catapult and launch them all off to South Florida to ooze into the pond with the others.
Maduro appeared to refer to an incident on 12 February in Caracas, with video evidence suggesting that several intelligence service (SEBIN) officers fired at a group of opposition protesters. All SEBIN officers were under presidential orders to remain indoors that day.I asked that no one go out onto the street, less so with guns. And they went out with guns. Ah, it looks a lot like the format of the state coup [of April 2002]. Im investigating all of this, and if elements [of an inside plot] appeared Id say it to my country that there are plotters inside the government or that an officer has been bought. Id say it with all of the willpower I have, he stated.
It has been noted for years and years that the right-wing offal of the Americas sooner or later digs in in Florida, all the death squad killers, torturers, brutal child murderers, village burners, vicious little murderous US-supported Presidents and Vice Presidents and cabinet members, etc., etc., etc. Without a doubt the slime which burned down homes in Venezuela with the residents still in them during the April elections should be running there soon, too, if their repeated efforts finally fail them.
They should ALL have been imprisoned so long ago, but many of them find haven here, unfortunately.
Thank you for this helpful information, Mika.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)Diosdado will give the orders"
No one says Maduro the puppet was behind the killings. The one we're pointing at in this particular case is called Ameliach and he's the PSUV governor of the state where Genesis Carmona got killed. He called the shooters who were there shooting against the demonstrators - the battle units of his party - to prepare for a fulminant counter-attack. What more do you need to understand?
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)But they can't condemn it when we have video proof. High definition video proof at that.
They can't condemn willful murder of someone. It's beyond imaginable how deeply they believe in the chavista line.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)The worshipers here would applaud if he'd get life in prison for high treason. That's why these people have no credibility whatsoever outside their own little chappel. Because they talk about justice but act unfairly. They fill their mouths with equality but constantly use a double standard to judge people and events. Otherwise, wouldn't they strongly condemn Ameliach for such a fascist murderous twitt? They are like a cancer for the left.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)history? First thing that occurred to me frankly due to the pattern of these attempted coups.
So he gave orders NOT to fire on protesters and his orders were violated. Well, who would ignore orders from Maduro? It's not difficult to answer that question.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)history? First thing that occurred to me frankly due to the pattern of these attempted coups.
So he gave orders NOT to fire on protesters and his orders were violated. Well, who would ignore orders from Maduro? It's not difficult to answer that question.
Judi Lynn
(160,516 posts)the enduring sweetness of Julio Soto?
His name was thoughtfully provided here by a right-winger hoping to convince DU'ers that this lad had been assassinated by the Chavez administration because he had been active in opposition anti-Chavez violence at the university there, like cornering pro-Chavez students in a building, cutting the electricity, water, surrounding the building, and setting fires outside the window.
Yes, that brave law student, Julio Soto.
At some point it became clear he had been involved with a gang of professional criminals, had been selling on the black market lots of the government-subsidized bus tickets meant to be used by the students to allow them cheaper transportation, since many are on budgets. He had also been connected to drugs, and the sale of stolen cars. When they investigated the numbers on his cell phone, the numbers led them directly to some rogue cops, and various other P.O.S.'s, whom they scooped up and took to jail, and prosecuted.
During the time immediately after Julio Soto, right-winger trolls here got right to work throwing their usual lies and other fecal material at Hugo Chavez, working away on their pile of lies. The opposition students in Maracaibo had a procession in the streets, even dragging out Julio Soto's dear old dad to join them, and they all had their pathetic signs mourning the lost of Soto at the hands of the Chavez government. Apparently they never had a correction march with their signs reading "Oops!"
The right-wing troll here didn't miss a beat in blaming Chavez for the death by switching immediately to blaming Chavez for not controlling crime in Venezuela. Crime and criminals like Julio Soto.
Not a word seemed to be written in English in the corporate media here about the findings of the investigation. Quelle surprise.
Here's one thread regarding this pathetic ass-holery:
Investigations Reveal Illicit Business of Murdered Venezuelan Student Leader
October 7th 2008, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com
Mérida, October 6, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com)-- ... According to CICPC investigators, the call history and number directory in Soto's cell phone reveal that Soto had contacts with members of the Zulia state police who are also involved in the illicit production and sale of government-subsidized student transportation tickets ...
Moreover, on his personal blog, Soto had written that he received death threats a week before his murder, a fact confirmed by his fellow student leaders.
The blog also showed Soto's ties to two opposition parties, COPEI and Un Nuevo Tiempo, which have been in conflict over party candidates and political agendas for the upcoming regional and local elections.
It is suspected that Soto was killed by a hired assassin involved in the mafia that regulates illicit business activity within the university ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x8763
There are other threads for anyone who wants to see other articles.
[center]
~click for photo~
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ReVEcAnCs2o/SZHCsQg40PI/AAAAAAAAB_c/4nsWd8x68RU/s320/Julio%2520Soto.preview
Julio, we never knew ye! Rest in peace.
Julio Soto's car, after it was NOT shot by an assassin working for the Venezuelan President.
Students driven mad with grief over the loss
of glorious, and loved of God LUZ leader, and
law student entrepreneur, Julio Soto. [/center]