Hugo Chavez’s legacy

[Judi Lynn]

Hugo Chavez’s legacy

philg - April 13, 2014 @ 8:41 pm · Filed under Uncategorized

I’m reading Comandante: Hugo Chávez’s Venezuela. The book contains an interesting perspective on this leader, from an executive at the Venezuelan national oil company:

Sansó defended Chávez’s energy policy, saying the comandante had helped revive OPEC, sending prices rising even before the Iraq war, and had had the vision to recognize Venezuela’s oil was not just around Lake Maracaibo, in the west, but also in the center of the country along the Orinoco in a smiling arc known as the Faja. The same wilderness that had swallowed gold-seeking conquistadores contained enormous deposits of extra-heavy crude. The black ooze had long been written off as tar, a costly-to-extract type of liquid coal, and the old PDVSA gave foreign oil companies a virtual free hand to develop it. Chávez insisted it was oil, and eventually even the U.S. Geological Survey agreed. The zone contained an estimated 220 billion barrels—making Venezuela’s total reserves vaster than Saudi Arabia’s. Chávez partly nationalized the Faja in 2007, taking majority shares in the operations, an audacious decision that infuriated the foreign oil companies working there. “For that alone Chávez was worth it,” said Sansó. “He was crazy enough to do it. Any reasonable guy wouldn’t have had the guts. He would have said it’s not possible. A century from now Chávez will be remembered and thanked for this, no matter what else happens.”

The book could use some editing. It jumps back and forth in time. There is some redundancy. But it is highly relevant right now when politicians and newspapers worldwide are trying to get people excited about “income inequality” (e.g., see this New York Times op-ed from yesterday). Chávez did not just talk about income inequality but took action.

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2014/04/13/hugo-chavezs-legacy/

[MindMover]

1. There are too many issues related to Chavez and his megalomaniac rein to get into here, however ...

to rely upon basically one source of income (energy related) and let your crony friends run everything (without even the slightest oversight) and then trust with virtually no verification .... and when you basically give away land to grow produce to sell at costs lower than production costs ...

I could go on .... but you are probably getting the idea by now ...

and then he relied on some really terrible advisers ... mainly crony friends who only wanted to enrich themselves ... again at the expense of the people ...

[Matilda]

2. You may know much more than I do about Chavez,

but do you have links to verify your assertions?

I always had the quaint idea that Venezuela's poor supported Chavez because he was trying to lift them out of poverty, but perhaps I misunderstood, and they were really being ripped off..

[Marksman_91]

3. A lot did get lifted off

Last edited Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:10 AM - Edit history (2)

But that was only in the short-term. In the long-term it was not going to matter much because of the government's poor handling of the economy. Now's when the people's pockets are starting to suffer, especially the poor ones. An out-of-control inflation rate has brought Maduro and co. to devalue the bolivar to ridiculous levels, and now barely anyone can buy a weeks worth of groceries if they have only one job. Not to mention that they have to do line-ups of up to 3 hours just to buy a rationed amount of milk or chicken or Harina PAN or what-have-you. It's the kind of shit that happens when you put a bunch of nepotistic uneducated homophobes with no experience of managing anything in charge, especially in the President's seat. All Maduro had accomplished prior to being included in Chavez's government was being a bus driver, and didn't even get a formal education, barely even making it through high school. Not saying there's anything wrong with a bus driver's job, but when that's all the work experience someone's ever had in their life, you wouldn't even want that person to be manager even of a small business.

[Peace Patriot]

5. Your elitist knickers are showing, Marksman_91.

Ever drive a bus? Or organize a union? Or manage a family with a poverty wage? Or, um, serve as Foreign Minister for a country under CIA siege?

Your attack on Maduro is ...well, just silly--and so personal.

[Flatulo]

6. Mr. Maduro may have passion and loyalty, but I thought that after the debacle

of the George W. Bush presidency, most thoughtful people were of the opinion that it took an extraordinarily bright person, you know, like Mr. Barack H. Obama, to effectively lead.

I don't need to see Mr. Maduro's IQ scores or high school transcripts to deduce that he's at best of only average brightness, and believe me, I'm being very kind. You, PP, are vastly more intelligent than he is. You're deluded by ideaology, in my opinion, but still vastly more intelligent.

The very nature of reality in VZ right now is plenty of indication that Mr. Maduro is in way over his head. He may be a champion of the poor and a swell guy to have a beer or two with while cranking some Zeppelin tunes, but he's as far out of place as a head of state as GWB was.

Yeah, he was democratically elected, but look at what the voters are stuck with - rampant inflation, shortages, declining oil output (and income), and a toxically divided electorate.

I also find it very interesting that the lingering economic woes in the USA are consistently laid at the feet of GWB, while the same voices never, ever mention the 15 year rule of Hugo Chavez as having laid the foundations of poor economic times in VZ. Isn't that fascinating? Instead, you hear the steady drumbeat of blaming the CIA for all their troubles (which, ironically don't even exist, according to the Chavista/Madurista crowd).

[Matilda]

7. The key words in your post are "democratically elected".

Maduro was elected by a fair and honest vote, but the elite simply can't accept that.

I'll grant one thing - Maduro lacks the charisma of Chavez, but the policies are the same. Not perfect, but at least trying for a measure of equality. The elites had it their way for hundreds of years, and they don't like their privileges being eroded.

And given their past record all over the world, do I think the CIA is in there somewhere? You bet I do!

[Bacchus4.0]

8. two democratically elected opposition mayors were deposed by the chavista regime

Leopaldo Lopez is in jail for speaking out. He was a governor but is banned from public office because he is a pain in the ass to chavistas. Funny how the same standard of democratic primacy doesn''t seem to apply to chavistas.

[Flatulo]

11. Not only are their policies 'not perfect', they're disastrous.

Since Hugo Chavez took office, their oil production is down 25%, despite willing buyers in the Far East. No respectable international oil company will lend them cash or invest in their production capacity because of their record of expropriation. The word is out - the Chavistas are not to be trusted.

With inflation over 50% and shortages of basic goods, please tell me how the poor are being served. And it wasn't the CIA that wrecked their oil sector (their primary source of income) - it was the Chavistas. Over 20,000 skilled workers and managers have left for greener pastures while loyalist stooges replaced them. Tell me again how the CIA was responsible for that.

Every single thing the Chavistas touch instantly turns to shit.

[Marksman_91]

12. Democratically "elected" is hard to believe when it's clear the government controls all institutions

Including the electoral center. Tibisay Lucena has appeared in many pro-government rallies, clearly demonstrating she's a sympathizer of the PSUV, and the Supreme Court ruled it wasn't necessary for Hugo Chávez to give up his seat of power to another when he'd been absent for weeks with no sure sign of life, when the Constitution clearly states that after a head of state's health has not been confirmed to be well enough to maintain office after 30 days, the role of acting president had to be passed to the president of the National Assembly. And like Bacchus said, 2 mayors of the opposition have been arrested and given sentences absurdly quickly by the same Supreme Court (as in a matter of a couple of days) for God knows what idiocy. And they are mayors which enjoyed a much higher level of voting percentage than Maduro ever had even on a good day in the polls. And not only that, but back on the elections of last year, they clearly did not go ahead with the vote recount as the opposition requested, which was to revise the paper ballots in some major voting entities, and instead the CNE opted for a partial recount which didn't even include the conditions that the opposition requested, obviously because they didn't want the final results to be verified. And of course we have all the methods the government is trying to implement to keep the people from knowing anything about opposition rallies such as censoring all TV stations and using proxies to buy off privately owned channels that were vocally critically of the government, most notably Globovisión.

As for the economy, well, what can I tell you that hasn't been explained by all others in this forum that are also not supportive of the chavista government? But what's the point anyway, you're only just gonna blame all of the economic ailings of Venezuela on secret US/CIA/Alvaro Uribe-backed saboteurs, even though there's no solid proof to confirm any of that bullshit, and all it seems that's needed to convince the chavista lot in this website that the CIA is secretly plotting every bad occurrence in the country are historical examples of the US intervening in other Latin American governments from more than 40 years, even though the PSUV pretty much controls all institutions and most of the transportation and food production and military and energy and tourism. Add that to the fact that the generation that was ruling over 40 years ago in the US has nothing to do with those in the seat of power today, especially since, you know, you have a Democrat president like Barack Obama, and that whole argument falls apart after 15 years of Chavista rule that have steadily concentrated more and more power under its domain to the point of controlling almost everything in the country.

[Judi Lynn]

15. The same CIA which was able to "make the economy scream" for Richard Nixon in Chile?

You imagine they applied that program to Chile once, and never used it again?

[Flatulo]

16. Entire wealth generating sectors of the economy have been purged of any of questionable loyalty

and replaced with regime supporters. Chavez sent 20,000 PSVDA workers packing after the oil strike and replaced them with his supporters. So can you explain how the CIA has been able to cripple the chief revenue generating entity of the entire state?

Isn't it more likely that the 20,000 people who were purged actually knew something about running an oil company?

Isn't it more likely that VZ's inability to refine heavy crude, instead having to import almost all of their gasoline (which they then give a way almost for free) using precious dollars that could be spent elsewhere, have strained their budgets to the breaking point?

There are perfectly reasonable explanations for their troubles without having to fantasize about CIA plots that can cripple an entire country.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Maybe you or one of your heroes could make a public speech to the people,

telling them what ignorant peasants they all are (due to the fact the oligarchs made sure no government money was used to educate the children of the country all these long, long years), and how stupid they are to want their own leader of their own country.

Maybe you can explain to the world why only your candidates are qualified to lead, even when it's already known where they will lead the country if they could only slime their way back into office.

[Bacchus4.0]

31. God forbid they are led back to having the highest standard of living in Latin America

plenty of food on store shelves, relatively low crime, a functioning judicial system, plenty of housing, low inflation, and a vibrant economy.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Led back? Really? How did that heaven on earth bypass the masses, anyway?

Those conditions you praise were available only for the whitest of the very white, while the rest of the country suffered silently, even more quietly after your favorite President's El Caracazo Massacre mowed down so many right in their own neighborhoods after he sent his troops in tanks up there to slaughter them. for protesting their bitterly hard living conditions, from which there was no escape.

[Bacchus4.0]

33. How would you know? no sabes nada chama.

anything seem familiar? You didn't know he was a leftist did you?


The election of Carlos Andrés Pérez in 1973 coincided with the 1973 oil crisis, which saw Venezuela's income explode as oil prices soared, while oil industries were nationalized in 1976. This led to massive increases in public spending, but also increases in external debts, which continued into the 1980s when the collapse of oil prices during the 1980s crippled the Venezuelan economy. As the government started to devalue the currency in February 1983 in order to face its financial obligations, Venezuelans' real standard of living fell dramatically. A number of failed economic policies and increasing corruption in government led to rising poverty and crime, worsening social indicators, and increased political instability.[37
---------------------------------------------

One of the most radical aspects of Pérez's program for government was the notion that petroleum oil was a tool for under-developed nations like Venezuela to attain first world status and usher a fairer, more equitable international order. International events, including the Yom Kippur War of 1973, contributed to the implementation of this vision. Drastic increases in petroleum prices led to an economic bonanza for the country just as Pérez started his term. His policies, including the nationalization of the iron and petroleum industries, investment in large state-owned industrial projects for the production of aluminium and hydroelectric energy, infrastructure improvements and the funding of social welfare and scholarship programmes, were extremely ambitious and involved massive government spending, to the tune of almost $53 billion. His measures to protect the environment and foster sustainable development earned the Earth Care award in 1975, the first time a Latin American leader had received this recognition.

In the international arena, Pérez supported democratic and progressive causes in Latin America and the world. He reestablished diplomatic relations with Cuba and submitted a resolution to the Organization of American States (OAS) that would have lifted economic sanctions against the country. He opposed the Somoza and Augusto Pinochet dictatorships and played a crucial role in the finalizing of the agreement for the transfer of the Panama Canal from American to Panamanian control. In 1975, with Mexican President Luis Echeverría, he founded SELA, the Latin American Economic System, created to foster economic cooperation and scientific exchange between the nations of Latin America. SELA was intended to offset the influence of the OAS, which was widely viewed to be subject to US domination.[2] He also supported the democratization process in Spain, as he brought Felipe González, who was living in exile, back to Spain in a private flight and thus strengthened the Spanish Socialist Workers Party (PSOE). Additionally, he negotiated a treaty with the USSR that called for the USSR to supply oil to Venezuela's Spanish market in exchange for Venezuela supplying the Soviet market in Cuba.[2]

Towards the end of his first term in office, Pérez's reputation was tarnished by accusations of excessive, and disorderly, government spending. His administration was often referred to as Saudi Venezuela for its grandiose and extravagant ambitions. In addition, there were allegations of corruption and trafficking of influence, often involving members of Pérez's intimate circle, such as his mistress Cecilia Matos, or financiers and businessmen who donated to his election campaign, known as the "Twelve Apostles". A well-publicized rift with his former mentor Betancourt and disgruntled members of AD all pointed to the fading of Perez's political standing. By the 1978 elections, there was a sense among many citizens that the influx of petrodollars after 1973 had not been properly managed. The country was importing 80% of all foodstuffs consumed. Agricultural production was stagnant. The national debt had skyrocketed. And whilst per capita income had increased and prosperity was evident in Caracas and other major cities, the country was also more expensive and a significant minority of Venezuelans were still mired in poverty. This malaise led to the defeat of AD at the polls by the opposition Social Christian Party. The newly elected president, Luis Herrera Campíns, famously stated in his inaugural speech that he was "inheriting a mortgaged country."

[Judi Lynn]

34. Who on earth did you think would swallow that silliness, anyway?

Everyone who knows who Carlos Andres Perez was also knows enough to know NO ONE would believe he was a leftist. How wildly stupid.

A turning point in the Venezuelan struggle for real democracy occurred in 1989. President Carlos Andres Perez ran on a platform opposing neoliberalism and promised to reform the market during his second term. But following his re-election in 1988, he reversed himself and continued to implement the "Washington Consensus" of neoliberal policies - privatization and cuts to social services. The last straw came when he ended subsidies for oil. The price of gasoline doubled and public transportation prices rose steeply. Protests erupted in the towns surrounding the capitol, Caracas, and quickly spread into the city itself. President Perez responded by revoking multiple constitutional rights to protest and sending in security forces who killed an estimated 3,000 people, most of them in the barrios. This became known as the "Caracazo" ("the Caracas smash&quot and demonstrated that the president stood with the oligarchs, not with the people.

More:
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/14649-the-secret-rise-of-21st-century-democracy

This information has been available to any and everyone who even dreams of looking for it.

[center][/center]

[Bacchus4.0]

35. story sounds familiar doesn't it? Sounds like your kind of guy n/t

[ChangoLoa]

36. As an "Afro-descendiente" Venezuelan, I can tell you that what you say is not true at all.

Since I was born in this country, there have been poor "white" and rich "black". But most of all, 7/10 of the population is and feels "mestizo", which is more than any other country in the world.

Of course, we come from a colonial history and when you see rich classes, people are usually less dark than in poor classes. But there is a global racially-mixed identity that a country like the US will not have before at least a century.

As a "black" (actually dark mestizo or mulato, African, Indigenous and Mediterranean) Venezuelan, I can affirm that Venezuela is the least racist country I've ever been to.

Believe me if you like, but I really don't think that a white anglo-saxon protestant from Kansas like you are, should judge so hastily about racism in a country where, moreover, you have never been in your entire life.

[Bacchus4.0]

38. Chavistas here don't know much and bizarrely try to use that as some sort of advantage

They can project their naive and fantastical perceptions of Venezuela without ever having to be bothered by knowing reality. Without exception, chavistas that post here have never set foot in the country, nor will they. Ignorance is truly bliss for them. They really don't care for DUers who are knowledgeable of the country.



They count on other DUers who have less interest in the region to spew their lies and propaganda.

[Zorro]

39. What is witnessed all the time in this forum are perverse expressions of US exceptionalism

It’s the paranoid belief that every foreign disturbance is fomented by overt or covert US policies or agencies.

It’s most predominant in posts by the naive, the inexperienced, the manipulative, or the just plain ignorant.

[Judi Lynn]

14. They voted for his programs eighteen times. He must have done something they LIKED.

You're certainly on the right track, no doubt whatsoever.

[Peace Patriot]

4. "you are probably getting the idea by now"--what "idea" would that be?

That you don't know what you're talking about? Got that.

[Bacchus4.0]

9. the legacy of Chavez, by definition, is what Venezuela is today. The most corrupt and violent

country in the hemisphere with the highest inflation, shortages of basic goods, repressive and inept government, a housing shortage, no functioning judicial system, anti-free press nation in this hemisphere.


The legacy of hugo indeed.

[Judi Lynn]

13. Delrem got it right. The election produced the winner, there is no doubt about that.

Jimmy Carter, who has never been a dirtbag, has told the world these elections have been completely clean, regardless of what the grotesque, twisted, racist a-hole fascist right-wingers attempted to claim, as they did, time after time.

Clean elections, the leftists WON. Why? The people voted for them, and not the right-wing whores.

As we have also heard them say for years, the Presidents can leave office, and they will vote for new leftists, new REAL leftists to replace them. They want their government to represent THEM, not the diseased, greedy, morally depraved oligarchs.

[Flatulo]

17. The next election should be very interesting. If things don't improve, Maduro will be in trouble.

People vote their wallets everywhere. When the state was ladling out benefits to the poor, they had a lock on the electorate. But with rampant inflation and food shortages, as well as nearly useless currency, the good times are over. They can't produce the crude that China would be willing to buy, and western companies are now leery of doing business there after years of Chavez shitting on them.

[Judi Lynn]

19. "Chavez shitting on them?" Really? Another stimulating conversation bit from you. n/t

[Flatulo]

20. Chavez destroyed Venezuela's oil industry, VZ's primary source of income.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/03/06/hugo-chavez-death-oil/

Chavez chased away foreign investors by expropriating their capital equipment, and continually forcing them to renegotiate existing contracts. Plus, he endlessly raided PDVSA for his social programs, leaving them starving for capital to invest in oil production.

FORTUNE -- The death of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is no panacea for the nation's dysfunctional energy industry. Political and economic uncertainty will likely continue to deter foreign investors from fully committing the necessary cash, resources, and expertise that are desperately needed to effectively tap the nation's oil wealth. Whoever takes over the reins of the nation will need to dismantle the policies, structures, and rhetoric that have made investing in Venezuela a fool's errand.

It is not hyperbole to say that Hugo Chavez's death Tuesday rocked the energy industry. The "Bolivarian" strongman has been the oil industry's biggest villain for over a decade. In his tenure as president of Venezuela, Chavez not only trashed contracts and expropriated lands and equipment from foreign oil companies, like ExxonMobil (XOM) and ConocoPhillips (COP); he also managed to crush the national oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), by using it as a piggy bank to fund the programs and policies associated with his nebulously defined "21st Century Socialism" experiment.

.....

By the 1990s PDVSA and its foreign partners, which at the time included pretty much all the big U.S. and European oil giants, were pumping around three million barrels a day of oil from Venezuelan fields, making it the third-largest oil exporter in OPEC. PDVSA's long-term plan was to gradually increase its production capacity to around eight million barrels a day, which would have put Venezuela on par with oil exporting giants like Russia and Saudi Arabia.

But the ineptitude and corruption of the Chavez kleptocracy have contributed to a decline in overall Venezuelan oil output, which at last count came in at 2.4 million barrels a day, 25% less than what it was when Chavez took power 14 years ago. That would have been excusable if Venezuela's oil reserves were rapidly depleting, but that isn't the case -- not by a long shot. Indeed, in 2010, OPEC confirmed that Venezuela's Orinoco oil belt contained tar sand deposits equivalent to around 300 billion barrels of oil, enough to fulfill current world demand for 10 years. That would mean Venezuela would have the largest oil reserves on the planet, outstripping Saudi Arabia's 260 billion barrel oil stash.

You can't refute this, Judy, because it's the truth. Read the article at the link.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Fortune is so well known for its honest overview. Democrats worship materialism, don't "we?" n/t

[Flatulo]

25. I appreciate your passion for the poor and a more just society... I really do. But the history of

Venezuela's oil sector has been written. There's a strong consensus amongst oil industry analysts that the problems are of VZ's own doing. You can shoot the messenger if you like, but it won't change reality.

If you'd like to refute any of the points made in the article I cited, please do so.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Delrem could not have been more right.

I'm curious about which one of those would have alerted his post. There are several in the cluster#### who would do it. It's their obsession, their reason for being, their source of chump change, no doubt, trying to make trouble for progressives.

[Marksman_91]

23. He dug his own grave. Can't hold a civil conversation? Then he has no place here n/t

[Judi Lynn]

24. He clearly holds truthful conversations. n/t

[Marksman_91]

26. Insults and excessive cursing are signs of desperation due to a lack of valid arguments n/t

[Bacchus4.0]

27. chavistas are shell shocked. Their hope and dream of a communist anti-US country

is nothing short of a disaster. and that's Hugo's legacy.

[Zorro]

28. Why do you hate DU's alert and jury system?

The jury was obviously convinced -- by a 5-2 vote according to pottymouth's transparency page -- that his post deserved to be hidden.

Are those jurists who voted in the majority also "trying to make trouble for progressives"?

Why do you hate democracy in action on this site?

[Flatulo]

29. Gee, and right here you scolded me for what was not even a directed insult.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1108&pid=28853

Judi Lynn (83,704 posts)

11. How righteous do you feel using this degree of intense vulgarity against a DU poster?

If you aren't comfortable around Democrats, secede, by all means. Don't drag the place down to that level.

If you take the time to notice, it's only right-wingers who won't control themselves. They are angry because they've gone to the wrong message board and don't know where to go, even though we could tell them.

[Zorro]

30. Oh that's just another example from the big list of examples

that Little Latin Loopy Lynn doesn't even comprehend the hypocrisy of her own posts.

[ChangoLoa]

37. That's not what the Carter Center said and you know it.