Protesters fight police, burn Maduro puppets in Venezuela

[Zorro]

Masked youths battled police, protesters burned and hung from lamp-posts effigies of President Nicolas Maduro and marchers demanded the "resurrection" of democracy on a volatile Easter Sunday in Venezuela.

Though millions of Venezuelans have headed for Caribbean beaches and family gatherings over the Easter period, student demonstrators have sought to keep a nearly three-month protest movement going with religious-themed demonstrations.

After a barefoot walk and a "Via Crucis" march in the style of Jesus' tortured walk towards crucifixion earlier in the week, hundreds of demonstrators began Sunday with a rally denominated "Resurrection of Democracy."

Easter marks the day Christians believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead after being crucified.

http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelan-protesters-hold-easter-rally-plan-burn-maduro-182954817.html

[RobertEarl]

1. Hmmm

So I have been reading about the violence and how high the murder rate has been in Venezuela. Are the people there just prone to violence? Too many guns?

[Flatulo]

2. Venezuela banned private gun ownership in 2012.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18288430

Their per-capita gun ownership is lower than ours, but the murder rate is much higher, tho' ours is nothing to be proud of.

Most of our gun violence is poverty related, with the majority of shooting victims minority males shot by other minority males.

Something different is going on down there. As far as I know, they don't have the racial tensions that we have; the Euro and Mestizo populations live in peace side by side.

Gun deaths are rarely investigated, let alone prosecuted there. My own theory is that Chavez looked the other way, figuring that if it was the poor shooting the bourgeois, no big deal.

[RobertEarl]

3. So who is supplying the guns and ammo?

Do you think banning guns there is a good idea?

[Flatulo]

4. What I think about gun ownership there is not important. I do support

private gun ownership here, with restricted access to high capacity semi autos and magazines. I think a magazine capacity of 5 to 7 rounds is reasonable for hunting or home defense. Round up all the 30 round clips and melt them down.

We have constitutional protections, I don't know if they do. Regardless, Chavez banned them all, 'tho obviously people aren't turning them in.

Banning guns won't accomplish anything. I think you need a non-corrupt police force and judiciary to enforce the laws, or they're meaningless. VZ has become so utterly corrupt that there is no effective policing, and civil society is just breaking down.

[RobertEarl]

5. Civil society is breaking down.

I've seen you take many numerous positions on Venezuela, mostly opposing the elected government. But now you say the real truth? That what you think ......is not important? You realize the break down, you know its guns doing the dirty work, yet you beg off taking a position? Hmmmm. Does not say much for your integrity.

Lets try again.... who is supplying the guns and ammo? The people in S. Florida maybe?

People can't get toilet paper, but they can get guns and ammo? You see the problem, yet?

[Flatulo]

6. Did you read the article I linked to?

VZ has their own state-owned gun industry. Prior to the ban, anyone could buy a piece from them at state-owned stores.

I think you see conspiracies everywhere, and you seem to be hinting that VZ ex-pats living in Florida are sending guns down there to make trouble, but there's no need for that, as millions of guns are already in circulation, legally bought before the ban.

[Marksman_91]

8. Most of those weapons are supplied by the government and military itself

Did you forget about all those recent mutinies that have happened in many jails under this regime? Where a bunch of military-grade weaponry was confiscated from the prisoners themselves? Many dirty national guard and police have done deals with thugs and the Prans of prisons to exchange weapons for a quick buck since they have such miserable salaries. Or in some cases it's just thugs killing police or military officers to steal their weapons. There's also a LOT of drug trafficking activity that goes unaccounted for in the country, especially with the FARC terrorists. That right there is another big source of illegal weaponry. If those weapons were being supplied from the US, I'm pretty sure there'd be full-blown coverage regarding that, but alas, there isn't so your argument kinda falls flat.

[RobertEarl]

10. Dirty Nat guard, police?

Lots of drug running? Pretty corrupt at the core, eh?

Now you can see what the elected government of Venezuela is up against?

FARC terrorist that the US has given billions to Colombia to counteract. Drug running that the US can hardly control even here. Corrupt police selling weapons.

And some of you here harp on the elected government that has ended the weapons trade, is educating kids, housing the homeless and fighting the corruption all at the same time while our f'n CIA kidnaps their president?

Man, if that's what so many members of the Democratic Party of the US does for fun, all I can say is that explains how republicans walk free with your money.

[Marksman_91]

11. Your tin-foil hat is a bit tight

Keep saying "Venezuela's problems are caused by the CIA and right-wing elitists" over and over again. I'm sure if you say it enough times it'll become true

[RobertEarl]

12. Eh?

You are the one saying the whole country is corrupt.

I've been asking questions is all. And your answers have been illuminating. Sorry to turn the tables on you and show you for being on the wrong side, but that's how it goes. But, you kinda, sorta, shot yourself in the foot, eh, Markman?? Truth does that to those just exposed to it.

Do you deny that we kidnapped the elected president?

Do you deny that we spend billions in Colombia, even sending troops there to fight the drug runners, who you have just claimed are part of the problem in Venezuela?

[Flatulo]

13. '...the whole country is corrupt' /= 'the CIA did it', but nice try putting words in his mouth.

I'm wise to your games, having watched you play them, with great amusement, in the Creative Speculation forum with your tortuous, twisted il-logic. You've made incoherent gibberish an art form. You spew garbage, attribute it to your opponent, then smugly declare him/her as confused and claim victory. You've absolutely no interest in honest discussion, and it's quite obvious.

You might fool a child, or the pre-fooled, but not anyone else. You're a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, and nothing more. There is simply no coil of bullshit sufficiently absurd that you will not devour with relish and come back for seconds as long as you can claim that da CIA or Boosh did it.

[RobertEarl]

15. Do you agree with Markman?

He clearly laid out the case that the police and soldiers are selling weapons to criminals. Do you think he was wrong?

Ya ever notice how some posters resort to personal attacks when they have nothing else?

My stance is that given the corruption and all the guns and ammo, and the hate of socialism, it is no wonder Venezuela is having so many problems.

To blame it all on the presidents of Venezuela is akin to how the bigots in this country blame all our problems on Obama. Yep, I am saying some of you sound just like teabaggers who blame Obama for everything.

[Flatulo]

16. What now? When did Marksman 'clearly make the case' that the police

were selling guns to criminals?

There you go again, making up things that people never said. It's a game you play but no one else wants to join in.

[Marksman_91]

14. The hell you talking about?

If you're referring to the 2002 coup (which I don't deny the CIA was involved in), news flash, that was 12 years ago, and that has been more than plenty of time for the government to have actually made some progress in fixing the real problems for Venezuelans, such as rampant crime and scarcity of many essential food products. But as it turns out, especially in the last couple of years, the Chavista regime has been incompetent in all aspects to tackle these problems. Hell, even the industries they've seized from private hands are in ruin. Pretty much all food products in Venezuela are all imported since national production is kinda non-existent. Even PDVSA is on the same path, since all the skilled and educated workers from before were replaced by a bunch of uneducated, unskilled fanatics. And it doesn't take a genius to notice that the government itself is full of nepotism. The vice president himself is married to one of Chavez's daughters, and the Mistress of Communication is sister to one of the most vocal Chavista mayors, Jorge Rodriguez. This only shows that these delinquents value loyalty more than the fact that the people they put in charge of many of these positions were not educated or prepared in fields that would be suitable for such roles.

You're trying to put words in my mouth, I never once said anything implying that I think the CIA is behind the problems that Venezuelans face today, especially after 15 goddamn years under Chavista rule. My God, even that hag Eva Golinger is in on the conspiracy bullshiting by claiming that the CIA somehow caused Chavez's cancer, as if the man was somehow some kind of demigod and was naturally immune to all kinds of disease and that the only way he could get sick was through artificial means. This shows the insane level of cult of personality that people have been associating Hugo with that is only going to create a group of blind radical fanatics, which isn't good news for anybody on either side. It's gotten to a point that anybody who spews the "the US/CIA is behind all the problems in Venezuela", especially without ANY proof to back those claims, can only be considered a crazy conspiracy theorist nut job.

[Judi Lynn]

17. A thought worth considering by people capable of it. Thanks. n/t

[RobertEarl]

19. All we can do is try

Pointing out what they appear to be thinking and how incongruous that thinking is, is the first step toward ameliorating the behavior.

[hack89]

23. Russia helped VZ build a factory to build AK-103s

which is a state of the art assault rifle. The VZ government also established the Bolivian Militia and armed them to the teeth.

VZ is awash with weapons.

[Marksman_91]

9. Once again you're showing your blatant ignorance regarding the situation in Venezuela

The burning of those puppets is a politically influenced variation of the Burning of Judas, which is an Easter tradition that many LatAm countries partake in. In recent years it's become a sort of form of protest in which prominent figures which people symbolically equate to Judas, in this case, Maduro and other officials of the government, are used for the burning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Judas

It's really nothing new

[Judi Lynn]

18. Did "they" (oligarchists) ever burn Carlos Andres Perez? That would prove it's nothing new. n/t

[Marksman_91]

20. Can't find anything about CAP

But chavistas most certainly did it with Capriles last year:

http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/03/31/organizaciones-sociales-realizan-la-quema-del-judas-capriles-en-caracas-2504.html

Oh, and please do note the site I'm citing is VTV, the most propagandist state-run channel, so you know I'm not bullshiting you.

[Judi Lynn]

21. The two men have shared their contempt for the poor of the world, and approval of violence

as the way to deal with them in getting control over the people's country.

I believe they are both deadly, despicably wrong.

[Marksman_91]

22. Stop trying to change the subject like you and the chavistas here always try to do

You were considering those who were burning Maduro puppets as violent and savage, but don't seem to care one flying fuck about those who did the same for Capriles. I decided to provide proof that the puppet burning is not something that only the opposition does, that it's something people do from any side during Easter, and proof is what I delivered to prove your point wrong. At least I provide materials to back up my claims, while you and the ideologically impaired lot that you and the rest of the Chavista camp in this forum represent only repeat the same BS over and over again without providing any actual raw and relevant numbers and/or material to at least maybe support your statements, but alas, all that you apparently need to prove your points true is the fact that the US intervened more than 40 years ago to sabotage another government.

[Bacchus4.0]

24. CAP was a fervant socialist. Ven hasn't had much success with them CAP, Hugo, Maduro

all their policies are based on oil production so its boom and bust. and even with prices moderately high they can't even provide food and toilet paper for their people. and just like CAP, we have the National Guard shooting at protesters.

Venezuela needs to look at Peru, Colombia, Chile, Brazil for sounder economic and social policies. Chavistas are destroying Venezuela.

[Marksman_91]

7. The burning of those puppets is a variation of the Burning of Judas that many LatAm countries do

It's a tradition during Easter, and in recent years it's become a sort of form of protest in which prominent figures which people symbolically equate to Judas, in this case, Maduro and other officials of the government, are used for the burning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Judas

It's really nothing new