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struggle4progress

(118,275 posts)
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:53 PM Aug 2012

Why Ecuador's Embassy Stand-Off With the U.K. Might Not Actually Be About Protecting Julian Assange

Max Fisher
Aug 16 2012, 12:42 PM ET

... Ecuador's decision to grant Assange asylum appears, on the surface, bizarre or even irrational, given the apparent costs. The small-ish Latin American nation has effectively blown up relations with the much more powerful United Kingdom just over Assange, whose only real interest in Ecuador appears to come from one Ecuadorian officials' late 2010 hints of asylum. But it's possible that the diplomatic stand-off itself, and not Assange's freedom, is precisely Ecuador's goal.

Though we can't know the Ecuadorian government's motivation for sure, engineering a high-profile and possibly protracted confrontation with a Western government would actually be quite consistent with Correa's practice of using excessively confrontational foreign policy in a way that helps cement his populist credibility at home. It would also be consistent with his habit of using foreign embassies as proxies for these showdowns -- possibly because they tend to generate lots of Western outrage with little risk of unendurable consequences.

In his May interview with Assange, one of the first things Correa did was make a joke about his controversial decision to refuse to renew the U.S. lease on an air force base in his country, thus effectively shuttering it, to American outrage. "OK, there isn't any problem with a U.S. base being set up in Ecuador. We can give the go ahead as long as we are granted permission to set up an Ecuadorian military base in Miami. If there isn't any issue, they will agree," he said. Assange laughed. "Are you having a lot of fun? Me too," Correa said, laughing with his host. "Yes, I am enjoying your jokes a great deal."

Correa's government first announced that it would not renew the U.S. lease in July 2008, and both his officials and he personally continued to insist as much, and to rebuff American requests otherwise, right up through Correa's April 2009 re-election, which he won handily ...

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/why-ecuadors-embassy-stand-off-with-the-uk-might-not-actually-be-about-protecting-julian-assange/261221/

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Why Ecuador's Embassy Stand-Off With the U.K. Might Not Actually Be About Protecting Julian Assange (Original Post) struggle4progress Aug 2012 OP
Mr. Fisher's scenario sure seems plausible. Cleita Aug 2012 #1
That's a pretty clueless comment. Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #4
I'll go along with the continent that roared analogy. Cleita Aug 2012 #5
Reading the Atlantic is like being a "fly on the wall" at Langley... Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #2
Had exactly these thoughts reading this unc70 Aug 2012 #3
Good comment. ocpagu Aug 2012 #6
Yes, quite a few talking points today. HooptieWagon Aug 2012 #8
The Atlantic was bought out by the rightwing several years ago, so it's predictable to find struggle4progress Aug 2012 #9
Sorry, I don't buy this argument on Chavez and I don't buy it on Correa and Assange. Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #11
Flaws and mixed motives? naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #12
No, you do it. I'll stick to the things that the Corporate Media doesn't report. Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #13
Right, you can't do it. naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #14
Of course I can do it. But I refuse to. Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #15
If the stuff that I post is misinformation naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #16
Your mis-dis-information is mostly in promoting ONLY negative reports about Venezuela. Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #17
Posting of negative information naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #18
The Corporate Media has the untoward power to blast their negative view of Chavez, 24/7... Peace Patriot Aug 2012 #19
"post are redundant" naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #20
Tnx for the link. I was wondering how the MIC was spinning events. HooptieWagon Aug 2012 #7
What a shame seeing yet another attempt to smear an excellent, well-elected leftist leader. Judi Lynn Aug 2012 #10

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
1. Mr. Fisher's scenario sure seems plausible.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:05 PM
Aug 2012

Reminds me of the old Peter Sellers'movie , "The Mouse That Roared".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse_That_Roared

The plot is about the tiny Duchy of Fenwick which declares war on the United States.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
4. That's a pretty clueless comment.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 02:13 PM
Aug 2012

Ecuador is a member of OPEC, has lots of oil and is strongly allied with Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Uruguay, Peru, Nicaragua and El Salvador (and including Honduras and Paraguay until the U.S.-supported/designed RW coups there)--a powerful new alliance that has challenged U.S. dominion over Latin America. This is not a matter of "the mouse that roared." It is a matter of "the continent that roared."

These countries have not only been very successful at defying Wall Street's and Washington's dictates, at spreading the wealth, at improving the lives of the poor majority, at creating an economic "level playing field" for foreign investment (anathema to U.S. transglobal monopolists), and at expanding human and civil rights and public participation, they are the movers and shakers in the new LatAm regional organizations--Unasur (all South American countries) and CELAC (all Latin American countries) that pointedly do not have the U.S. as a member.

In short, Ecuador is not alone. Latin America's leftist leaders have succeeded at creating collective strength in an historic movement for social justice. And, believe me, this is what U.S. policymakers are studying (and plotting against) right now--not Ecuador, but Ecuador and its allies.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
5. I'll go along with the continent that roared analogy.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 02:25 PM
Aug 2012

The USA has been afraid of this for a very long time, which is why we have a practice of supporting corrupt elected officials in those countries. They are so much easier to manage so our American and British pillage interests can continue uninterrupted. It's why our government has a white hot hatred of Venezuela's Chavez.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
2. Reading the Atlantic is like being a "fly on the wall" at Langley...
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:50 PM
Aug 2012

...or at some secret CIA/Pentagon reconciliation ('let's get on the same page') party arranged by Leon Panetta.

I just want to laugh. It's such fun seeing the "talking points" against this huge, historic Leftist movement in Latin America in formulation and getting hints of how big a worry it is to our transglobal corporate rulers and war profiteers. For instance, this...

--

"Correa, along with the more famously anti-American rulers of Venezuela and Nicaragua, is one of what the Washington Post recently called 'Latin America's new authoritarians.' They are nationalistic, populist, and 'increasingly undemocratic.'" --from the OP

--

Here you get a dizzying loop-de-loop--CIA/Pentagon "talking points" to the Washington Psst, published and then cited by the Atlantic--a more portentous outlet for the same "talking points"--as some sort of authority on the Latin American Left. It's like the Washington establishment looking in a mirror and nodding in agreement with itself, to itself, and smiling at itself for its cleverness at being "in the know."

The truth is nowhere to be found in this article--if you want to know anything about Correa or democracy in LatAm, I mean for real. The mirror metaphor comes to mind again. WHO is "authoritarian"? The new presidents of LatAm countries chosen by the people, by big margins, in honest, transparent, internationally monitored elections and devoted to serving the interests of the poor majority, and who have greatly expanded the human and civil rights and public participation of the poor majority--or the leaders of the U.S. and the U.K. and their secret agencies and vast arsenals, who serve the transglobal super-rich? The Atlanticia, the Psst and those whom they serve are projecting when they talk about "authoritarianism." There are no entities more authoritarian than Exxon Mobil, BP, Chevron-Texaco, Chiquita International, Dyncorp and the rest of the bad actors who are dictating U.S. and U.K. government policy. They hate it, with a remarkable viciousness, when real democratic leaders arise to challenge their dominion over countries, resources and people.

Though there are some cool, calculating and very cynical minds behind this propaganda, what strikes me about this article is its emotional projection onto Correa of our Corporate Rulers' own crimes and anti-democratic activities.

unc70

(6,110 posts)
3. Had exactly these thoughts reading this
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 02:01 PM
Aug 2012

I'm old and cynical. Usually right.

Agree with your assessment.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
6. Good comment.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 04:06 PM
Aug 2012

It's interesting how some people will always find reasons to call a leftist government "populist" for practices that would never be called that way in other countries.

Ecuador is a sovereign nation. They can give asylum to whoever they want. Period. The idea of comparing this to "the mouse that roared" implies that Ecuador should OBEY the will of another country for the solely reason of this other country being more powerful.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
8. Yes, quite a few talking points today.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:53 AM
Aug 2012

Its dang hard to rack up 65,000 posts without posting on "company" time. Its a good thing there's no astroturfers or psy-ops on DU, or there might be numerous threads bashing Assange and Ecuador.

struggle4progress

(118,275 posts)
9. The Atlantic was bought out by the rightwing several years ago, so it's predictable to find
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:07 AM
Aug 2012

rightwing spin within its pages

We should, of course, be glad to see the left make strides in Latin America

In particular, there have been some good reasons to support Correa, including standard solidarity after US destabilisation policy towards Ecuador during the Bush II years, and including Correa's williingness to close the US base in Ecuador -- a move towards a better international regimen that could benefit everyone

There are also some potential grey areas

The traditional control of media by the oligarchy tempts us to say that absolute free speech may not be appropriate for Ecuador -- but it is important to recognize we ought not lightly discard principles for political expediency or because our favorites seem currently in control. Developing new consciousness is a ever-continuing goal, but that consciousness needs to have a strong basis in ethics

Moreover, there is no substitute for accurate analysis based on the facts. Knowing what is on-the-ground, and having some realistic expectations of it, does not guarantee success -- but not knowing what is on-the-ground, or having unrealistic expectations of it, will almost always guarantee failure. So it is just as important to assess those we might prefer to have as friends, as those we might prefer to have as enemies. And the most accurate assessments may not always come from those who share our political views

So I say you should be interested in Correa's motives, which might be mixed. For the same reason, you might want to be interested in Assange's motives, which also might be mixed

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
11. Sorry, I don't buy this argument on Chavez and I don't buy it on Correa and Assange.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:18 AM
Aug 2012

The Corporate Media bias against Chavez, for instance, is so strong, so long standing and so total--when, with only a little research you can find out, from alternative sources, all that they are failing to report--that the "balance" that is needed is to see that the achievements of the Chavez government ARE reported, to the best of one's ability. We can safely leave criticism of the Chavez government to the Corporate Media and the U.S. State Department. That's all that they do. They never tell us the other side of it--the amazing achievements of the Chavez government...

--The Chavez government achieved a sizzling (10%!) economic growth rate for five straight years (2003-2008) amidst the most intense efforts of the U.S. government, the Corporate Media and Venezuela's rich elite to sabotage the economy and to overturn the voters' decision to elect the Chavez government.

--The wealth that the Chavez government created was shared with the poor majority, to such a substantial degree that the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean designated Venezuela "THE most equitable country in Latin America."

--The Chavez government has cut poverty by 50% and extreme poverty by over 70%. They have provided universal free health care. They have greatly expanded educational opportunities. They have greatly expanded human and civil rights and public participation.

--Venezuelans rate their country one of the highest in the world on the "happiness" index--their judgement of their own welfare and future prospects (as I recall, Venezuela was no. 5 in the world, above the U.S.) They consistently rate their satisfaction with their government in the 60% range. They have twice elected the Chavez government and turned back a USAID-funded recall election by 55% to 60% margins, in honest, transparent, internationally monitored elections.

--The Chavez government has overseen honest, transparent, internationally monitored and certified elections, which are characterized by high voter turnouts and high levels of public participation.

--Venezuela has now recovered from the Bushwhack-induced, worldwide Depression, and is back up to a 5% growth rate, with a 16% reduction in inflation, and with continued very low unemployment, and has done all this without any cuts to social programs. During the fat years, they saved money and so had high cash reserves to cushion the Venezuelan people against the 2009 drop in oil prices and this put them in a good credit position as well.

If you review the Corporate Media to answer the question, "WHY do the people of Venezuela so overwhelmingly support the Chavez government?, you will find NO answers--except for sneering references, now and again, to Chavez "buying" the support of poor with handouts. The general prosperity of the country, the economic growth, the shared wealth, the new opportunities and the opinions of the majority of Venezuelans are NEVER reported. But if something goes wrong in Venezuela--such as the unusual drought that caused power outages from the hydroelectric plants--you will find numerous headlines, articles and references to it, with NO follow-up on what the Chavez government has done about it (funny, no more outages since that time--guess why? They solved the problems!) Or if the Chavez government exercises its rightful, constitutional, lawful power in the way FDR exercised power--with strength and determination and with the interests of the poor majority in mind--and it steps on the toes of the rich or transglobal corporations, they call him a "dictator," just as the rightwing did to FDR in his day.

I don't need to add to this relentless diatribe against the Chavez government by trying to be "balanced" about Chavez. If he has faults, that's for the people of Venezuela to assess. What I feel responsible for is what MY country and its Corporate Rulers do in my name--which is to utterly slander and lie about this government while completely ignoring the people who elected it, as if they don't exist. Their absolutely false picture is that Chavez somehow elects himself!

They have also slandered Rafael Correa and, of course, Julian Assange. There is no need for me to criticize them. Sure, every leader has flaws. Every leader and every person on earth has mixed motives. And every government has failures. Why should I add to the unbalanced, hugely biased commentary on these two, when the CIA is so busy planting negative articles about them on my dime? I'm doing my part to criticize them by just paying my taxes. On my other dime and of my own free choice, I talk about the new stability and economic fairness in Ecuador, with the Correa government. I talk about the risks that Julian Assange has taken to get information to the rest of us, from our excessively secretive government. I point out the similarity to Daniel Ellsberg (which Ellsberg himself has pointed out). Those Wikileaks cables have substantially aided my understanding of U.S. behavior in Latin America. I would like more such documents to be made public. Assange truly is a champion of open government and has put his life at risk for it. I don't care if he has character flaws. Who doesn't? Gandhi had character flaws. So did Martin Luther King. So did Mother Teresa! What Assange has done for open government is remarkable and it is very clear to me that he is being hunted--and was set up in Sweden--to stop him from doing that.

I'll leave it to others to pile on.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
12. Flaws and mixed motives?
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:42 PM
Aug 2012

You said: " Sure, every leader has flaws. Every leader and every person on earth has mixed motives."

Name one flaw and mixed motive of:

A. Chavez
B. Castro
C. Correa
D. Morales


I don't think you can do it.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
13. No, you do it. I'll stick to the things that the Corporate Media doesn't report.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:59 PM
Aug 2012

Chavez: Clear support of the majority of Venezuelans, expressed in honest, transparent, internationally monitored elections, as well as in opinion polls. High levels of public participation. Great reductions in poverty and expansions of educational opportunity. General prosperity. Low unemployment. Successful efforts at re-starting economic growth and cutting inflation. Risked losing an election on constitutional amendments in order to support women's equality (and in fact lost that vote, by a narrow margin, probably because of Catholic Church opposition). Clearly committed to expanding human and civil rights. Offended Exxon Mobil by demanding a fair deal for the Venezuelan people on the oil profits. Represents the first leftist democracy revolution of the modern era in Latin America. The Venezuelan people themselves restored him to his rightful, elected office, after the abortive, U.S.-supported fascist coup in 2002.

Castro: Cuba is peaceful; Cubans have universal free health care and universal free education through graduate school, and one of the best medical systems in the world. Cubans have guaranteed food, clothing and shelter. All of Latin America (and most of the rest of the world) considers the Cuban government to be legitimate. Although the Castros wield untoward power (undemocratic), there are some good reasons why they have done so, chiefly the relentless hostility of the giant, armed behemoth to the north, and Cubans actually have a democratic process of governance below the level of national executive power.

Correa: President of the most stable government that Ecuador has ever had. Committed to social justice. Threw the U.S. military out, in obedience to the clear wishes of most Ecuadorans. Very smart. Educated as an economist in the U.S. but doesn't buy Wall Street's bullshit. Well understands the unity needed among countries that the U.S. Corporate Rulers would like to smash to pieces and dominate. Oversaw a re-write of the Ecuadoran Constitution which, for the first time ever, recognized the rights of the Indigenous to be consulted on use of their lands. (This didn't go far enough, in their view--they wanted a veto; Correa's position was that Ecuador's resources belong to all Ecuadorans, not just the Indigenous.) This Constitution--which was overwhelmingly passed by the voters--also, for the first time ever--anywhere--recognized the rights of Mother Nature ("Pachamama&quot to exist and prosper apart from human needs and desires. Though Correa has nothing directly to do with it, an Ecuadoran court recently awarded a huge multi-million dollar judgement for Indigenous petitioners against Chevron-Texaco for their horrible toxic pollution of an area the size of Rhode Island. This court action reflects the rise of real democracy in Ecuador--where the poor now have as much chance in court as the rich and the corporate--of which Correa is the presidential expression. How dare Ecuador demand accountability and reparations from Chevron-Texaco! How dare they give asylum to Julian Assange! I like this rise of democracy and assertion of sovereignty by Ecuador--and in other LatAm countries. Correa is the most visible leader of this historic political movement in Ecuador.

Morales: The first 100% Indigenous president of Bolivia, a country where the Indigenous majority has been so oppressed that, as late as the 1960s, the Indigenous were forbidden to walk on the sidewalks! He is the Nelson Mandela of Latin America. He has led a peaceful revolution against vicious racism. The poor Indigenous housekeepers and maids and gardeners of the rich white elite now have pensions and labor protections. Morales, like his leftist allies in other LatAm countries, is committed to social justice, sovereignty and independence. In his rise to political leadership, he helped throw Bechtel out of the country (for trying to privatize a city water system, including charging poor people for collecting rainwater!). As president, he threw the DEA and the U.S. (Bushwhack) ambassador out of the country for their collusion with the white separatists who rioted and murdered and beat people up, in 2008. The white separatists were trying to split Bolivia in two and commandeer Bolivia's main resource, gas. Morales nationalized the gas works and is, of course, sharing the profits among all of the people. i love the provision of the new Bolivian Constitution which declares the coca leaf (traditional Indian medicine) sacred and makes it legal. (It is not cocaine.) (Bolivia's Constitution also has the Pachamama provision.) Like the other leftist leaders in LatAm, Morales was elected by big majorities in honest, transparent, internationally monitored elections.

Fire away, naaman fletcher! What are their flaws and mixed motives? Oh, wait, you've already posted plenty of anti-Chavez articles about everything that's wrong in Venezuela. We already know he's a dictator, increasingly dictatorial, a clown, incompetent, corrupt and unforgivably popular. Forget Chavez. Just do Castro, Correa and Morales. No, Castro's too easy. Forget Castro. Just do Correa and Morales. Oh, well, do whatever you want. We need to keep up with the latest slams against these leaders. Watcha got?

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
14. Right, you can't do it.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:27 AM
Aug 2012

My point is that you were being disingenuous when you said that every leaders has flaws and mixed motives. You don't actually believe that.

Also, you are lying. I have never said that Chavez is a dictator. Not once.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
15. Of course I can do it. But I refuse to.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:20 AM
Aug 2012

The vicious campaigns against these leaders in the Corporate Media, where never, ever, EVER is anything positive said about them, despite their significant accomplishments, where there is no balance whatsoever and not the least scrap of information to explain these leaders' popularity, compels me to list and detail their accomplishments and positive impacts on their peoples' lives, in my own small way here at DU, to bring a bit of objectivity and balance to the discussion here.

The Corporate Media's coverage of these leaders and their countries is appalling. And I won't play your stupid game by detailing what I may think of as these leaders' flaws or mixed motives.

You may never have said that Chavez is a dictator but you post nothing but negative news about Chavez, day after day, relentlessly, just like the Corporate Media. It amounts to the same thing. Their premise is that Chavez is a dictator when he's not an incompetent clown. You post their egregiously distorted disinformation.

Another premise of the Corporate Media coverage that you promote--a premise quite hidden beneath the surface--is that Venezuelans are bunch of stupid peasants who don't know who and what they are voting for and who don't really exist to the rich elite and therefore don't exist in the Corporate Media. Venezuela has undergone a social and political revolution led by its people and by many grass roots leaders who became fed up with fascism and its new incarnation, neo-liberalism. THEY elected Chavez. THEY saved him from a coup d'etat and restored him to his rightful office. THEY wrote their new constitution. THEY voted for their new constitution, by a big majority. They carry that constitution around in their pockets, and quote it and discuss it. During the 2002 coup attempt, the first thing on their minds was, "What about our constitution?" (when the rightwing coupsters kidnapped Chavez and suspended the constitution, the courts, the national assembly and all civil rights.) They REVERE the rule of law! They cherish their right to vote and exercise it in numbers that put our people to shame. They believe in democracy and live their democracy in ways that our people should study and imitate.

And they are never mentioned in the Corporate Press, which is too busy creating this phantom bogeyman, Chavez the Dictator Clown.

This bullshit sickens me. It is not journalism; it is propaganda. And a day hardly passes when you do not post yet another piece of this bullcrap propaganda campaign.

Every leader on earth has flaws and mixed motives, including the aforementioned. None are perfect. None are ideal. But there are two ways to distinguish the good from the bad (or the mediocre), and that is what they have done and what the people whom they represent think of what they have done. On the former--what they have done--we get black holes in the Corporate Media the size of entire galaxies, on Latin America's leftist leaders. NO information on the positive things they have done; excessive information on failures or missteps. On the latter (what their people think of their policies and actions), well, the people who support them don't exist. Their views don't count. They are never quoted. Their overwhelming endorsements of these leaders are hardly mentioned--and only when the Corporate Media is forced to, say, report an election result, and even then, it's often accompanied by snide and negative remarks.

Flaws? Mixed motives? Failures? Missteps? Yes, Venezuelans, for instance, have heard quite a lot about these things from the Corporate Media and have judged them to be unimportant or false. THAT is the judgement that is important to me--not what I think about Chavez, but what Venezuelans think. What has Chavez done to earn the continual and often enthusiastic support of this politically engaged and active citizenry?

NO information in the Corporate Media! NONE!

And you wonder why I won't treat you to some criticisms of Chavez, or Correa, or Morales? (I'm excluding Castro/Cuba from this reply. It is a separate case.) Sorry. Won't play.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
17. Your mis-dis-information is mostly in promoting ONLY negative reports about Venezuela.
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:04 PM
Aug 2012

I have never denied that there are problems in Venezuela. Every country has problems--especially Latin American countries, which have been relentlessly battered, robbed and controlled by the U.S. and its transglobal corporations and war profiteers for half a century. Exxon Mobil, for instance, was sucking 90% of the oil profits out of Venezuela with the other 10% going to the local rich oil elite who were running things and who utterly neglected the vast poor majority in Venezuela; couldn't care less about them; were guilty of major malfeasance, and, in the end, became violent and murdered hundreds of poor people who were protesting these conditions (the event that led to the re-writing of the constitution, its passage by a big majority in a national vote and in Chavez getting elected).

The Chavez government--at the insistence of the Venezuelan people--has achieved very significant reform on this (Venezuela's control of its major resource), on poverty reduction, on educational opportunities, on public participation, on clean elections, on public access to the broadcast media, on police response to political street demonstrations (both right- and leftwing), on fair taxation and tax enforcement, on establishing and preserving "the commons," on infrastructure development and economic growth, on unemployment, on labor rights, and other very important matters.

None of this is EVER reported by the Corporate Media, nor by you. They and you dwell exclusively on problems that have not been solved or on items that can be construed as Chavez being a "dictator" or (media cognitive dissonance) incompetent. They even used the catastrophic drought in Venezuela, that caused hydroelectric power outages, to dis Chavez and never reported that there are no more outages (why? because the Chavez government addressed and solved the problem). That he is simply a strong leader of the FDR type, using power for the 99%, rather than just for the 1%, is never considered. The premise of the Corporate Media, from the beginning, has been that any leader who uses power for the 99% must be a "dictator" and they go looking for, and exclusively publish, any item that supports that view.

They really had fun with the "free speech" issue and, of course, never considered the huge imbalance in the rightwing/corporate monopoly of the public airwaves in Venezuela, which was so bad that several corporate broadcasters supported the 2002 fascist coup attempt. Of course the Corporate Media is not going to fault their own. They used RCTV as an emblem of "free speech," when RCTV openly supported suspending the constitution, the courts, the national assembly and all civil rights, in a coup d'etat! This is the very thing that had inspired our own Fairness Doctrine (which the Reaganites dismantled)--fear of coup d'etat by private control of the public airwaves--a media coup d'etat. That is largely what happened in Venezuela in 2002, and the Chavez government, with the support of the vast majority of Venezuelans, has been trying to solve that problem ever since.

Private corporations have no inherent right to use the public airwaves. In every democracy in the world, including our own, they have to be licensed by the government. During our "Fairness Doctrine" era, they had to satisfy requirements of serving the public good to get that license. RCTV was obviously not serving the public good by leading the charge to overthrow Venezuela's democracy, and they therefore lost their license to use the public airwaves when it came up for renewal (though they retained cable broadcasting). Rather than taking the balanced, objective view of this situation that we should expect from real journalism, and faulting RCTV for its anti-democratic activity, the transglobal Corporate Media reacted with what can only be described as hysterical unbalance, ranting and raving about "free speech" (translation: corporate speech). There were no two sides to it, even. Chavez was a "dictator" suppressing "free speech."

A balanced response would include information about RCTV's role in the coup attempt--which, among other things, included refusing to broadcast anything by members of the Chavez government during the coup attempt. (The elected government of the country had no free speech rights!) (Is it any wonder that the Chavez government has stressed public access to the media, public broadcasting stations and a government channel?) A balanced response might also have included the information that the Chavez government had not addressed "Fairness Doctrine" issues in an orderly way at that time (though they have done so since then), so RCTV's license came down to a decision of the president, not by a commission (such as the FCC). That would be fair reporting, in the context of RCTV's gross misuse of its license.

The extreme unbalance in the Corporate reporting on this matter portrayed Chavez as "anti-free speech." Lordy, RCTV had silenced the elected government and had actively supported kidnapping of the president and suspending all civil rights! How about Chavez's free speech rights? Hard to exercise them with a gun at your head!

The Chavez government's efforts to expand the free speech rights of ordinary Venezuelans--and to expand other human and civil rights, and to encourage public participation--have also gone entirely unreported.

Democracy is working quite normally--and, in some ways, quite well--in Venezuela. You would never know this from the Corporate Media, or from your posts of Corporate Media articles. RCTV is just one example. The coverage is never otherwise--never! Not the slightest effort at balance. That is disinformation. That is "Big Brother." That is the "Big Lie." And that is the greatest irony of all. It is the transglobal corporations and war profiteers, who hate Chavez, who are the real "dictators." And their tools in the Corporate Media, really, have no interest in "free speech." Their purpose is to promote the enrichment of the 1%, and to monopolize public space for the purposes of greed and domination. The Corporate Media is, itself, supremely anti-democratic.

There are many ways that these powermongers manipulate public perceptions. The simplest--outright lying--is the easiest to refute. (The "miracle laptop" is a good example; "Chavez the terrorist.&quot But then there are half lies--lies of omission--telling only one side of the story. Or mixing fact and fiction (fact: Chavez is building homes and restoring a town that got hit with catastrophic floods, using powers of "decree"; fiction: Chavez is a "dictator" who "rules by decree"; full story: the elected legislature voted to give Chavez that decree power, which includes time limits and issue limits and this is a common practice in Latin America).

Or "Big Lie" techniques of constantly hammering on certain "talking points" (Chavez the dictator, Chavez the opposer of "free speech&quot and then switching memes to Chavez-the-incompetent (hasn't done this, hasn't done that) until the minds of their news consumers are mush. Never ever let them think for themselves or give them information that might lead to them thinking for themselves! Control is the point--not news, not discussion, not thinking.

There are sly techniques, like "His critics say..." (an AP favorite) often with no attribution and no quotes. ("His critics say that he is increasingly authoritarian"--my favorite of the AP gems (which I tracked back to a rightwing Catholic cardinal, at the beginning of that meme)). (Now they are using it on Rafael Correa!) There are many sly journalistic tricks to pushing chosen "talking points" and distorting reality. I've seen them all in the Corporate reporting on Chavez. And they include exclusively negative headlines and stories, and NEVER mentioning WHY Chavez keeps getting elected, by big majorities, in honest, transparent elections.

I won't get into a dispute with you about what is misinformation and what isn't. You have adopted the Corporate technique of posting only negative information. It may contain facts. It is NOT the truth.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
18. Posting of negative information
Tue Aug 21, 2012, 04:15 AM
Aug 2012

Why is it ok for you to only post positive information but not ok for me to post only negative information?

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
19. The Corporate Media has the untoward power to blast their negative view of Chavez, 24/7...
Tue Aug 21, 2012, 06:55 AM
Aug 2012

...on all the broadcast frequencies, and in almost all news publications, and on the internet.

The State Department, the CIA, the USAID and other propaganda agencies, and the Pentagon and its propaganda arms, and all the private contractors that these entities employ, control billions of our tax dollars that are used to propagandize to and about Latin America, multimillions of which are used to blast their negative view of Chavez TO the Corporate Media, as well as to fund and train his rightwing opposition to create "talking points" that the Corporate Media can use, and to fund "think tanks" and seminars and fancy dinners at high-end hotels and God knows what-all, all for the purpose of defeating the Left in Latin America, with Chavez as the main target.

The transglobal corporations who are "suffering" loss of their monopolies, and curtailment of their greed and power, in Latin America, due in part to Chavez policies and Chavez's influence, the banksters including the IMF/World Bank and its super-rich investors, and "Wall Street" and its apologists, and other governments who are ruled by these entities, also do their parts, I'm sure, to create a negative picture of Venezuela and its government.

This very intense propaganda campaign to create a negative view of Chavez has become quite obvious to anyone whose pays attention. I wonder why it isn't obvious to you.

In your posts, you repeat this negative information that billions of dollars have been focused on developing and promoting--as if it needs repeating.

And none of the above contains even the slightest hint of why Chavez is so popular and why he keeps winning honest, transparent elections by big margins.

It's a mystery.

I try to solve this mystery.

Your posts are not needed in order to create a negative image of Chavez. Lots of people have been working on that, lots of resources committed to it. Your posts are piling on. They are redundant.

The information that I ferret out--from alternative news sources, from research, from studies and reports, from leftist groups, from travelers, sometimes from "reading between the lines" of Corporate news article (you can tell a lot from the angle of the bias on a subject, what Chavez and his government and Venezuelans have been succeeding at) and from analysis, is not generally known and is NEVER covered by the Corporate Media. Never!

Things like the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean designating Venezuela "THE most equal country in Latin America." Or Lula da Silva saying, "They can invent all kinds of things to criticize Chavez, but not on democracy!" Or Nestor Kirchner's reply to the Bushwhacks, when they told him that he must "isolate" Chavez, "But he's my brother!" Or Venezuela's poverty reduction stats. And on and on.

"Why is it ok for you to only post positive information but not ok for me to post only negative information?"

You can post whatever you like. And I can post what I think about it. That is not an issue (okay to post, not okay to post).

Your posts are redundant--a repeat of the Corporate viewpoint.

I am solving a mystery. Why is Chavez supported by most Venezuelans--consistently over the years? Why do Venezuelans score their country so high on the "happiness" index (their view of their own welfare and future prospects--5th in the world, as I recall)? Why such high levels of satisfaction with their government? Why is Chavez liked and supported by other Latin America leaders--especially those who have no need to do so--don't need Venezuela's help--such as Lula da Silva? What are the facts--the details--of Venezuela's election system and how does it stack up against our own? How did Venezuelans vote themselves a "New Deal" when much of the world has gone backwards to the "Old Deal" (the rich get richer)? Seems like that is impossible here now. Is it? Can we learn from Venezuela and from the leftist democracy movement that Venezuelans seemed to spark and inspire, that has spread all over the continent, how to do it here? How did the Chavez government achieve such spectacular economic growth amidst all of Venezuela's troubles (caused by the U.S. and the rightwing oil elite) in the 2003-2008 period? Is the Chavez government really economically irresponsible or incompetent (the Wall Street view)? Would Venezuelans keep voting for that government if they were? It doesn't make sense.

I have many questions like this, for which there is NO information in the Corporate Media. They say Venezuela's gone to shit, under Chavez. I keep finding information elsewhere that contradicts that.

In my occasional replies here at DU, and a few OPs, I try to BALANCE the Corporate Media's 100% anti-Chavez viewpoint, which they broadcast all over the world, with some answers to questions that must puzzle a lot of people, especially those who have the Corporate Media as their chief or only source of information.

In summary, people don't need more negative information about Chavez. They get plenty of that already. What they need is the missing information--the information that is black-holed by the Corporate Media. That's what I try to supply in my own small way--what people don't know and have no hope of ever finding out from the Corporate Media (or from you and posters like you, who trumpet the Corporate Media line).

Judi Lynn does a much greater job of informing people about the things that they would otherwise never find out. I post and comment a lot less but I share her passion about this, and greatly admire her work here. Her posts are often truly extraordinary revelations, often with historical context. I open her posts to learn something. I open yours to find out what the latest anti-Chavez "talking points" are.

So, I'm not going to waste my time criticizing Chavez. He's not perfect. No one is. Their system is not perfect. No system ever is. 'Nuff said. Why is he so hugely popular, despite all the Corporate Media does to portray him as "dictatorial" or incompetent? What are his achievements?

One thing I've learned is that that is not exactly the right question. A more apt question: what are the achievements of the Venezuelan people with Chavez as their elected leader?

That's another thing missing from the Corporate Media coverage: the Venezuelan people (--except for a few rightwingers representing the rich elite). The Corporate Media is all 'Chavez, Chavez, Chavez.' That way they can inflate a bogeyman and then punch him out. The deeper story--the one they deliberately suppress--is that this is a political revolution from the bottom--the work of social movements, labor unions and the organizations of the very poor. The Corporate media fears, denies, ignores and loathes this broad base of political activism. They never credit the Venezuelan people with voting themselves a "New Deal" and defending it when it came under attack, and with all the work that went into re-thinking and reforming their political life--because they fear that happening here

You can use your time repeating all the stuff in the Corporate Media. That's up to you. I prefer to do something original and something that's badly needed to correct the really terrible imbalance in the Corporate coverage.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
20. "post are redundant"
Tue Aug 21, 2012, 07:48 AM
Aug 2012

OK, I see your point there. And here is the thing... I generally agree with you. However, I think that while you paint a 100% true picture of the US, UK, etc, and do an excellent job of it, however I think you are simply too "black and white" about things. I think you paint a picture where everything Chavez and Castro do is right. In reality, there are many, many wrong things that you do.

I think that, too, does a disservice. Hence, I add context to things.

For example, whereas Chavez has done much to help the poor and to help break the chains of dependency on and exploitation by the west, he also is TOTALLY FUCKING CLUELESS about running an oil company or maintaining an electrical grid. Does that mean that we should go back to the old ways? No. But perhaps Chavez should get some modesty and recognize he doesn't know everything.

Also, Chavez is TOTALLY FUCKING CLUELESS about the basics of supply and demand, agriculture, and what causes price fluctuations of basic goods. That's ok. But perhaps he should recognize that he has no idea what the price of chicken ought to be.

Third: There is massive corruption in Venezuela, and Chavez is either a part of it or oblivious to it.

I don't see how the "cause" is helped by ignoring these things.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
7. Tnx for the link. I was wondering how the MIC was spinning events.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:46 AM
Aug 2012

I'm sure they have a whole team working hard to spin their message all over social media and message boards. But of course, that wouldn't occur here... there's no astroturfers on DU.

Judi Lynn

(160,515 posts)
10. What a shame seeing yet another attempt to smear an excellent, well-elected leftist leader.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:05 AM
Aug 2012

It's an old, OLD dirty routine, so unwelcome, as nations struggle to escape the powerful trap the bullies operate in installing puppets who allow the US right-wing to dominate LatAm countries, exploiting, abusing the poor of the working class, keeping the infrastructures so depleted the people haven't had the chance to become educated, self-sufficient, and using the brutal powers of the puppet Presidents and their legal militaries, and their death squads (acknowledged or not) to keep the citizens in fear, making sure they stay there through torture, murder, assorted wickedness which has kept them silent for so long, as the stronger, determined people have gone to their graves in spectacular, public ways to serve as warnings to the others to be submissive or die.

Hideous. downright evil.

I respect the people who still make it their missions to do as much as they can for their people before assassins take them down.

The games played attempting to smear, taunt, terrorize them through the corporate whores of the "news" media simply sicken, disgust, horrify, and shame a large number of honest U.S. American human beings.

Latin America WILL triumph in the end, not scheming barbarians from outside who bond with the natural criminals in the Americas to sell the masses into hellish bondage year after year.

The monsters make it hideously painful to try to escape them to freedom, they make it seem impossible, but the righteous people of this planet are going to win, regardless. That's certain.

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