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Judi Lynn

(160,524 posts)
Fri Jan 27, 2012, 01:00 AM Jan 2012

In Honduras, a Mess Made in the U.S.

In Honduras, a Mess Made in the U.S.
By DANA FRANK
Published: January 26, 2012
SANTA CRUZ, Calif.

IT’S time to acknowledge the foreign policy disaster that American support for the Porfirio Lobo administration in Honduras has become. Ever since the June 28, 2009, coup that deposed Honduras’s democratically elected president, José Manuel Zelaya, the country has been descending deeper into a human rights and security abyss. That abyss is in good part the State Department’s making.

The headlines have been full of horror stories about Honduras. According to the United Nations, it now has the world’s highest murder rate, and San Pedro Sula, its second city, is more dangerous than Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, a center for drug cartel violence.

Much of the press in the United States has attributed this violence solely to drug trafficking and gangs. But the coup was what threw open the doors to a huge increase in drug trafficking and violence, and it unleashed a continuing wave of state-sponsored repression.

The current government of President Lobo won power in a November 2009 election managed by the same figures who had initiated the coup. Most opposition candidates withdrew in protest, and all major international observers boycotted the election, except for the National Democratic Institute and the International Republican Institute, which are financed by the United States.

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/opinion/in-honduras-a-mess-helped-by-the-us.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In Honduras, a Mess Made in the U.S. (Original Post) Judi Lynn Jan 2012 OP
Because of course Riftaxe Jan 2012 #1
violence shot up under Zelaya as well Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #2
meh.. I do think the US is mostly to blame naaman fletcher Jan 2012 #5
I don't think that's the point. ocpagu Jan 2012 #3
And sometimes a cigar is loaded with explosives by the CIA... Peace Patriot Jan 2012 #4
free pass for Obama naaman fletcher Jan 2012 #6
Where is the "free pass" for Obama? Peace Patriot Jan 2012 #8
Right. Negroponte's visits and Clinton's PR people were just coincidences. EFerrari Jan 2012 #7
Very interesting comparison (to Aristide/Haiti). Peace Patriot Jan 2012 #9
k and r for this amazing conversation roody Jan 2012 #10

Riftaxe

(2,693 posts)
1. Because of course
Fri Jan 27, 2012, 01:23 AM
Jan 2012

the Honduran people are to primitive to make their own messes?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar (a coup is just a coup?).

Honduras was hardly a utopia before the current administration.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
2. violence shot up under Zelaya as well
Fri Jan 27, 2012, 10:17 AM
Jan 2012

I don't think the US was responsible for that. and Venezuela 2011 had its highest rate ever and I don't think you can attribute that to US.

not that Lobo doesn't need to get things under control of course.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
5. meh.. I do think the US is mostly to blame
Sat Jan 28, 2012, 12:21 PM
Jan 2012

ultimately, the fuel to the fire in central america is our drug war

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
3. I don't think that's the point.
Fri Jan 27, 2012, 01:17 PM
Jan 2012

After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

Honduras is still an underdeveloped country, therefore they have a long way to go to solve historical issues.

That means they certainly didn't need a hand from the American government to make things more difficult, don't you think?

Of course, if we get to talk about issues like the right of self-determination, the American government position seems even more difficult in this case.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
4. And sometimes a cigar is loaded with explosives by the CIA...
Sat Jan 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
Jan 2012

...intended to blow up in the face of a leader they don't like.

Did you read the article?

--


"The current government of President Lobo won power in a November 2009 election managed by the same figures who had initiated the coup. Most opposition candidates withdrew in protest, and all major international observers boycotted the election, except for the National Democratic Institute and the International Republican Institute, which are financed by the United States." --from the OP (my emphasis)

--

And that ain't all the U.S. did. They also were funding the coupsters, while claiming otherwise, lying for the coupsters and allowing the Honduran military plane carrying the kidnapped president out of the country to refuel at the U.S. military base in Honduras, while failing to designate this coup as a military coup which would have triggered defunding and sanctions. This was followed by the phony, rigged election, arranged by the U.S. State Department--an election conducted under martial law. Now, the Pentagon is building new bases in Honduras!

It may well be that this coup, which unfolded only six months into the Obama administration, was of Bush Junta design, and it is certainly true that freshman senator Jim DeMint (SC-Diebold) blackmailed the Obama administration over the coup and was basically running U.S. foreign policy in Latin America, but it is also true that former Clinton hiree Lanny Davis was running the lie machine for the coup in Washington DC and that the Obama administration could not have reacted more badly to this situation, earning infamy throughout the region.

Again, that was likely part of the Bush Junta design--to prevent Obama from pursuing his stated policy of "peace, respect and cooperation" in Latin America. To sabotage Obama. The trouble is that Obama LET THEM--or rather Clinton did, in his name. This is why outgoing president of Brazil, Lula da Silva, said, in his last speech in office in 2010 that "The U.S. has not changed."

Clinton's motive, I am quite sure, was to impose U.S. "free trade for the rich" on Honduras. (Zelaya, working closely with the labor unions, was fighting this U.S. policy.) The Bushwhack and Miami mafia motives were nothing short of furthering a war plan for LatAm (focused for now on the Pentagon's "circle the wagons" region of Central America/the Caribbean). The Miami mafia came into the Diebold Congress ('10) talking of war on Nicaragua and Venezuela, before they were even seated. And the Pentagon has been actively expanding its "Southern Command" in this region. Indeed, in another quote from Lula da Silva, he stated that the U.S. reconstitution of its 4th Fleet in the Caribbean was "a threat to Brazil's oil" (not just to Venezuela's).

Brazil was especially active in trying to undo this U.S.-backed rightwing military coup in Honduras, because its leaders understand exactly what it was about: more U.S. interference and bullying, and planned aggression. Honduras was the footstool for the Reagan Horrors in Central America in the 1980s.

Colombia is the model. $7 BILLION in U.S. taxpayer military funding. Result: A rogue military closely tied to rightwing paramilitary death squads and drug trafficking, which murdered thousands of labor leaders, human rights workers, teachers and other advocates of the poor and brutally displaced FIVE MILLION peasant farmers from their lands, with state terror. Lord, the Colombian military was murdering youngsters and dressing up their bodies like FARC guerrillas, to up their "body counts" and earn bonuses paid for by you and me!

Without that $7 BILLION and U.S. military on the ground and "School of the Americas" 'training,' Colombia's military and the criminal elements within it and tied to it might have committed some atrocities but NOT ON THE SCALE that U.S. funding and support made possible.

The SAME THING is going on in Honduras! This U.S.-backed coup has unleashed the death squads!

So, yeah, "a cigar is sometimes just a cigar" and sometimes it's a bloody-minded unleashing of fascist forces designed and funded in Washington DC!

--------------------------

The surprise about this article is not what it is saying, for it is largely the truth, but that the New York Slimes would print the truth about Latin America. They have been very bad on LatAm issues. And we have to wonder about their motives for this. It appears to be part of a rightwing/corporate/war profiteer campaign to fully saddle Obama with horrors and failures of the Bush Junta. The Obama administration has been helping them to do this, but still, it is an attempted memory wipe against the people of our country. The Bush Junta was just that, a junta, which came close to destroying this country in every respect. We may descry the Obama administration's failure to go after these fuckers and their furtherance of some Bush Junta mindboggling lootings and rippings up of the Constitution, and their lameness in fighting back but we must also be very wary of Corporate News 'narratives' that blame Obama for Bush Junta destructiveness.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
6. free pass for Obama
Sat Jan 28, 2012, 12:25 PM
Jan 2012

I a surprised at the free pass you are giving Obama. I would have thought that you understood that there is one elite political party in the US. They are all one and the same. Obama is a part of that. He might be better on gay rights and such than the Bush clan, but they are still one and the same when it comes to corporate control of our country.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
8. Where is the "free pass" for Obama?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:03 PM
Jan 2012

I am talking about the process by which the fascists and traitors on the far right blackmail, bully, sabotage and blame the corporate/war profiteer operatives of the 'liberal' 'center,' which willingly LET THEMSELVES be blackmailed, bullied, sabotaged and blamed, because their ultimate goals are the same. The one openly hijacks the U.S. military and murders a hundred thousand people to achieve their goals (say, stealing Iraq's oil); the other sets things up for them, or covers up for them after these crimes are committed.

My analysis is not a "free pass" for Obama. It is a realistic assessment of who designed the Honduran coup and how and why the Obama team (with two Bushwhack wars and U.S. bankruptcy on their hands, only six month into their term) reacted as they did.

THEIR plan for Latin America is perhaps more apparent in the case of Colombia. They removed the Bushwack mafia boss, Alvaro Uribe, and support the new rightwing president who sometimes sounds like Hugo Chavez (f.i., promising universal free medical to all Colombians by this year) and who immediately made peace with Venezuela. The Bushwhacks see to the decapitation of the labor unions and the murder and mayhem against the political left for eight years, and the Obamites then work on a better image for Colombia and arrange "free trade for the rich," sans a healthy labor movement and a strong, grass roots, leftist organizing force in Colombia. If this doesn't work to undermine and "divide and conquer" the big leftist movement in the region (of which Venezuela was the pioneer) and to reboot U.S./transglobal financial control of the region, then corporate news narratives and U.S. military bases have been all set up to take back the region in another way (Oil War II?), when/if Jeb is Diebolded into the White House.

The problem for U.S. policymakers, whether Democratic or Republican, is how best to serve transglobal corporate interests and war profiteers--for instance, whether to "shock and awe" the "cradle of civilization" with U.S. "smart bombs" (Iraq) or pretend not to have had anything to do with the tribes now battling over control of Libya's oil and their revolt against Gaddaffi's tribe (one of the phonier "Arab Spring" narratives I've seen) while drone-bombing the loyal Libyan military (with "collateral damage&quot and shifting the onus to NATO. The TRUE democratic leader of the revolt in Libya was assassinated early on. Now it's just mayhem and "our bastard" will eventually emerge from the chaos.

This is a subtler transglobal/war profiteer policy (which I credit mostly to Leon Panetta, a Bush Sr crony)--similar to the "clean up" operation in Colombia (also Panetta), coordinated with Clinton, of course--and illuminates the Honduran coup.

I don't think Panetta/Clinton would have designed and implemented this coup. It was too crude. It OBVIOUSLY alienated leaders like the former and current presidents of Brazil, with whom the Obama/Clinton team would like to have had good relations (not to support the social justice/independence movement in Latin America but to "divide and conquer" it by touting the more corporate-friendly Brazil as the model). The Honduran coup--which I believe was implemented by Bushwhack elements in the State Department (which Jim DeMint was trying to prevent from being replaced, by holding up all Obama appointments in LatAm in an open blackmailing of Obama to force him to support the coup and U.S. belligerence in the region) and the Pentagon (in collusion with the U.S. funded/trained Honduran military)--was NOT how Obama would have proceeded in Honduras. The goal would have been the same--to defeat the left and prevent social justice and independence in Honduras--but the methods would have been markedly different (as they are in Colombia).

It's quite interesting how Clinton immediately tried to place a phony 'democratic' veil over the Honduran coup (trying to fool savvy leaders like Lula da Silva). The Bushwhacks wouldn't have bothered. They would have gone with a Pinochet-like, bloody, fascist military dictatorship (for instance, IDing the leftist political forces and exterminating them directly with pogroms)--for quick profits of all kinds (including further consolidation of the huge cocaine revenue stream) and in furtherance of the war plan against Venezuela--rather than the sneaky "death squad" war of attrition against the left that is unfolding in Honduras under a U.S.-installed, phony 'democratic' regime.

Same goals. Different methods. And part of this "dans macabre" of the Democratic/Republican leadership is the phony political narrative here--by which the left is lopped off of the political spectrum and the fascist/corporate right accuses the 'liberal'/corporate 'center' of being "soft" on this and "soft" on that, and the 'liberal'/corporate 'center' acts all scared that they are not being fascist enough. This "narrative" (and other points of collusion) is likely laying the ground work for the comeback of the Bush Junta (Bush Junta II--Jeb) for more wars and looting. Another outcome is that the entire cost of the Bushwacks' wars and mindboggling looting falls on the backs of the U.S. poor and is blamed on the broken progressive movement in the U.S., in order to dismantle the remaining elements of the "New Deal."

In summary, my analysis is by no means a "free pass" for Obama, et al. It is an attempt to explain how this particular event worked. I think Obama/Clinton wanted to proceed in a subtler fashion and were sabotaged, early on, by this coup--but then didn't mind capitalizing on the event, as it unfolded, to install a U.S. transglobal/war profiteer government in Honduras. (important note: Panetta was not in place yet at the CIA when this coup was triggered. He is the architect of what I would call the anti-Rumsfeld, anti-Cheney plan for U.S. world domination.)

EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
7. Right. Negroponte's visits and Clinton's PR people were just coincidences.
Sat Jan 28, 2012, 03:12 PM
Jan 2012

just like the plane that kidnapped Zelaya refueling at our base was a coincidence. Where do people get these bad ideas about America? Whiners.

It was nearly identical to the coup that removed and kidnapped Aristide, but that's a coincidence, too. Go figure.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
9. Very interesting comparison (to Aristide/Haiti).
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:25 PM
Jan 2012

Aristide/Haiti was obviously of Bushwhack design. Honduras--six months into Obama's term--was also Bushwhack-designed, and Obama/Clinton's response was almost (but not quite) as crude as the Bushwhack-designed coup, sans tutoring and behind-the-scenes machinations by Panetta, who was not yet in place at the CIA. The upshot of the coup and of Obama/Clinton's lame, collusive response was to lay U.S. policy in LatAm naked before the world. The Bushwhacks prefer this "big boot" image and never bother to disguise it. Panetta (Bush Sr), Clinton & Co. have a different methodology but with the same goals. (And of course there are crossover figures like Negroponte.)

In Haiti, the (Bill) Clintonites let Aristide take office (after he was elected in a landslide) but shackled him with "free trade" restrictions, which of course, caused turmoil. The Bush Junta then took advantage of (and no doubt fomented) the turmoil and orchestrated the coup (flying the kidnapped president out of the county, just like their plan in Honduras).

How anybody can DENY that the U.S. has--repeatedly, historically AND currently--ripped up democracy and social justice movements in these countries and has FOMENTED rightwing violence in both--is beyond me. The state that these countries are in--abject poverty, and fascist and drug network violence--is the DOING of the USA in collusion with the worst elements in these societies.

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