A Day of Tears After Chavez Death in Venezuela

[Judi Lynn]

A Day of Tears After Chavez Death in Venezuela
By PAUL HAVEN Associated Press
CARACAS, Venezuela March 7, 2013 (AP)

By the hundreds of thousands, Hugo Chavez's tearful supporters carried their dead president through streets still plastered with his smiling image, an epic farewell to a larger-than-life leader remembered simply as "our commander."

In a display of raw, and at times, unruly emotion, generations of Venezuelans, many dressed in the red of Chavez's socialist party, filled Caracas' streets Wednesday to remember the man who dominated their country for 14 years before succumbing to cancer.

Chavez's flag-draped coffin floated over hundreds of thousands of supporters as it made its way atop an open hearse on a seven-hour journey to a military academy in the capital. Mourners followed the lead of a grim drum major, with some shouting out "nuestro comandante" as the coffin passed.

At the academy, Chavez's family and close advisers, as well as the presidents of Argentina, Bolivia and Uruguay, attended a funeral Mass before the president's open casket. Later, the public slowly filed past in a show of respect expected to go on late into the night.

More:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/day-tears-chavez-death-venezuela-18671970

[Warpy]

1. I'll bet. He did a lot for the working class and the farmers.

The middle class and rich people are delighted he's gone.

I just hope his reforms can be sustained by a technocrat who can iron out the kinks. Chavez had his heart in the right place but his follow through occasionally lacked efficiency.

They were lucky to have him. They will miss him terribly.

[naaman fletcher]

3. I agree

That he did a lot for the poor. That statistics make that clear. I am curious though why you think he was beneficial to farmers. Venezuela now has to import more food than ever.

[Warpy]

5. He did the land reform that was absolutely necessary

The cockup was that he didn't manage the paperwork that said the people who got the land actually owned it and the damned banks wouldn't lend them seed money. So now you have new landowners who can't afford to plant or build housing or buy even rudimentary equipment.

This whole thing would have been done smoothly had he realized the power of an entrenched bureaucracy.

[Catherina]

6. I find that misleading about the food imports

According to the World Bank, food imports were at 15.47% in 2010. I don't think that's a high figure. They seem to have gone up and down quite a bit in Venezuela over the last 3 decades. In 1983, they were at 21%.



The US imports http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/food-imports-percent-of-merchandise-imports-wb-data.html&sa=U&ei=suk8UeSkKMKC2AW8_oEQ&ved=0CCIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHpNPGF2ZSujvxbKvMXudYNNqAxUA" target="_blank">4.97%.

France http://www.tradingeconomics.com/france/food-imports-percent-of-merchandise-imports-wb-data.html&sa=U&ei=bOo8UZCEE8je2AXX8oHYDg&ved=0CB8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHAAaC_8HvcTBuUjzngrugbwvnKsw" target="_blank">8.49%.

Saudi Arabia imports 15.72%

Jordan 16.23 %

Spain 10.4 %

Denmark 13.5 %

See here for other countries http://www.tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/food-imports-percent-of-merchandise-imports-wb-data.html


But really, what should we care about food import figures? To me the important is that people are fed and more people than ever are eating in Venezuela and eating well. I don't see where these numbers mean much unless you're out to manipulate a country's economics as the World Bank constantly does. Bloomberg, the Economist and other rightwing organs love to harp about the food import numbers for Venezuela Food Shortages in Venezuela Bigger Worry Than Constitution

Who cares? Are the people eating? Come down here to Guatemala, where the food import numbers are lower than Venezuela's but malnourishment is obscene as the general population lives on tortillas and beans but that's ok I guess.

Let's flip the charts. Let's examine Oil imports and start pointing fingers at the US to *prove* how it can't manage itself. That picture's a lot grimmer no?

Social parameters

The country has also cut food imports from 90 per cent to 30 per cent of its consumption, and has reduced child malnutrition from 7.7 per cent in 1990 to 5 today; infant mortality has declined from 25/1000 to 13 in the same period, and the country now has 58 doctors per 10,000 people (as against 18 in 1996). As many as 96 per cent of the population now have access to clean water, and with school attendance at 85 per cent, one in three Venezuelans is enrolled in free education up to and including university.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/hugo-chvez-death-of-a-socialist/article4481169.ece

[naaman fletcher]

7. Interesting post, thanks

I will spend a little time re-thinking the food imports a bit.

What do you think about the purported food shortages on the grocery store shelves?

[Catherina]

8. Not much

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Thanks for considering my point. I'm not much of a charts person, especially after working with corporations who paid people to make the charts say whatever they wanted.

I went to Venezuela several times in the last 2 years and never noticed any food shortages but my needs are very different than most Americans.

I remember being in Germany and listening to my fellow Americans moan that the Germans were backwards because they didn't stock this or that. Naaman, I lived all over the world growing up and several of those places were poor. Some were poor in everything, where people starved on the streets and others were *poor* in luxury goods but everyone was housed, clothed, fed and happy.

In the wealthier places, you could find Bloc of Goose Foie Gras on the supermarket shelves. In the places where people were well-fed and happy, such a thing was unheard of but you could find plenty of chicken, rice, pork....

So can you clarify what you mean by a food shortage on grocery store shelves?

If you're thinking of empty shelves with nothing on them, I assure you that's not the case in Venezuela. If you're looking for shelves stocked with caviar and other imported goods, then you would be in trouble but those are luxuries, not basic food items. Imported yoghurt and Skippy's Peanut Butter aren't basic food needs in my book either.

Plenty of plantains, rice, chicken, pork, beans, corn, beef (Evo Morales pays for his oil in beef believe it or not & Nicaragua sometimes paid for their oil with beef, sugar, coffee, mil). I suggest that if you need more than staples like that, the problem is with you and you're part of the reason this modern world, that flies water in pretty little bottles from Mount Fiji to California, is so messed up right now (I'm using "you" generally there).

Additionally, an often used tactic to destabilize countries and their economies in Latin America is to affect the flow of goods in and out so that a right-wing military coup can take place to "save" the country. That's how Pinochet got put into power in Chile.

Chavez found a way to get around all that and feed his people despite the business community's tricks. Read this article about the way they'd hoard food stuffs.

Think of all the shortages we have in our country. Most of them aren't even real but just a tactic to raise the prices. Remember the oil shortages in the US? The sugar shortages?

So basically, I don't buy the big hullaballoo about food shortages on grocery store shelves because it just wasn't there, the shelves were full when I went (see this article too http://www.democraticunderground.com/11089768) and most importantly, people were well fed. The poor were totally unconcerned with shortages of imports like Skippy's peanut butter. Instead, they bought peanuts at the market and ground them up themselves, cutting out the middleman and his profits.

Malnutrition has been eradicated in Venezuela. All the people crying about food shortages are crying about lost money making schemes, they want to go back to a time where they could squeeze the last drops from the little guy and point to their full shelves. Which would you prefer? Full shelves of fancy stuff you can't afford or real food for your children to grow healthy in a political system where they have a real say?

[Catherina]

11. I live in Guatemala City now? and in an elite community?

Did you pull that out from under your right armpit or your left armpit.

We've already established that you can't read, but thank you for confirming that the problem is even deeper than that.

The things you either assume or make up, you should be ashamed but I know you won't be.

[naaman fletcher]

12. Yes you live in an elite community

Although perhaps it's not Guatemala City. In any event, it's nice to have a Latin American 1 percenter on the list, it adds to the diversity

[Catherina]

13. You really have no idea what you're talking about

but that's been established many times before. Carry on with your fantasies; they only make you look more ridiculous so I encourage you to continue.

[naaman fletcher]

14. You live among

Rios Montt's children and near a former president. No wonder you think crime and inflation are right wing talking points.

[Catherina]

15. I live "among" them? News to me.

Please. Keep digging. I'd post more information about where I live but it's none of your smarmy business and I'm enjoying watching you make an even greater fool of yourself too much. Like I said, do carry on and please do work on your understanding of Latin American towns while you're at it.

[naaman fletcher]

16. LOL

You already admitted you live by his children and by a former president.

[Catherina]

17. We've already established you have a reading comprehension problem and no knowledge of Latin America

Thank you for this little exchange. This latest display of snark and lies naaman fletcher-style has now become tiresome, like swatting at a fly. Let everyone know when you've grown up and have something meaningful to contribute.

[naaman fletcher]

18. Ok

Enjoy looking down on the masses from your perch

[Rex]

30. Yeah and you enjoy getting shitcanned you fucking troll!

Please don't come back! Your love for Zimmerman was disgusting and it took way too long for you to get PPRd imo.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Thank you for your post. You've done many DU'ers a favor

in pointing out we're missing a troll, since many have tried to avoid reading its posts as often as possible, and wouldn't have known it was gone as soon as this.

It wore out its welcome so long ago.

Had no idea it supported Zimmerman, but that would have been exactly what we would have predicted, as it conforms to its other right-wing self-centered, race-hating hostility toward everyone else Republicans hate. (What a maverick!)

Thank you for going to the trouble to write this excellent post.

[Rex]

33. Thanks, that particular one went nuclear

on one of our regulars. Catherina put him in his place, but he would not relent. Creepy fella.

[Catherina]

35. Lol, I wear my only hidden post with pride now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1108&pid=16869

I feel so sorry (not) for his lil' rightwing buddy who alerted on that because they like spreading their lies but can't stand it when you tell the truth about them. Pizza, pizza and more pizza please!

[Judi Lynn]

36. That was a fantastic post you wrote which got hidden.

It showed the grotesque lengths the troll would go to in order to disrupt conversations.

What an incredible a-hole.

Astonishing lowness of character. I remember reading those posts you highlighted: really crappy moments of bottom feeding from that maggot.

You should wear it with pride, by all means! You nailed its slippery, smelly hide!

[Catherina]

37. Haha lol. Worn with incredible pride

and a *kiss my ass* to his troll friends.

[Judi Lynn]

20. I have read all the same posts the hissy fit pitcher has, never realized

you are a 1%'er!

Usually the 1% people are the ones he fights like a madman to support. Odd, isn't it?

Now he's attempting to hide out among the normal people of the world, not the hired keyboard champions of the amoral, greedy, and soulless.

Your secret concerning being a 1% is undoubtedly safe with us, no one else would attempt to discredit your presence here for being wealthy!

Fascists usually do all their character assassination to people they believe are supportive of the working man and woman. (He apparently unconsciously views you as supportive of the people!) They like to identify themselves with the goals of the "elite."

[Catherina]

24. He's just making stuff up as usual.

My whole town is about 10 blocks long both ways so it's quite humorous to watch someone who's never even been to Latin America deliberately misrepresent things, and not just once but so shamelessly persist.



Oh well, it only confirms more about how low certain Capriles' supporters will sink as they try to pretend that the same neoliberal policies that are destroying the US are the answer for Venezuela's poor. What an all-around joke.

[Judi Lynn]

26. I was thinking the guy didn't have any idea of what he was trying to claim.

We all saw the same words you wrote, and no one else took away that bizarre interpretation.
Their rush to attack keeps them from using good judgment.

[center] [/center]

[Rex]

31. He can't reply, got tombstoned.

Wow, what a strange conversation he was trying to have with you. I wonder what prior troll it was? Nah, never mind I don't wonder...just glad they finally got troll stomped!

[Catherina]

34. Hahaha! Thanks my dear friend!

Him and his little crew run around repeating this lie without even realizing how many people here know me in person, know where I live and what I do. How are you this fine afternoon after bringing us this great news?

That's one one down. I missed his Zimmerman hate snark but it's no surprise. They're never very clever lol. I seem to have a little collection that follows me around with their childish snark. It only amplifies what little they have to contribute. *Troll stomped* lol, what a lovely term. I'm still waiting for your visit Next time bring the news in person lol so I can jump at your neck and hug you!

*Troll stomped*

[Rex]

38. It was cute, he tried to bend in with the legal crowd.

But it was that unhinged rant he went on toward you that I think takes the troll award for fastest meltdown.

You can hold me to that promise.

[Catherina]

39. You are such a dear friend!

That little meltdown was quite something lol. Can't wait to laugh in person

[sabrina 1]

23. Someone told me once to pay attention to the pronouns people who want to avoid facts generally

use. Ever since then I have found it very instructive. Reading the exchange above, I saw no constructive addressing of the actual issue, but a lot of use of pronouns for baseless and accusatory purposes 'you did this, you did that' kind of child-like behavior that is generally corrected before the age of four. Personal attacks tend to contain a lot of that sort of thing, but not much else.

I think those who engage in that kind of personal attack still believe it is effective. Someone needs to tell them it was only effective for a very short time when honest people actually thought they were simply uninformed. Now that we know it is a tactic designed by some moronic think tank somewhere, it could not be less effective, other than to destroy the credibility of anyone still falling back on what was always an idiotic way to try to 'win' something on the internet. I have a feeling the failure rate of those tactics must be in the 90% ratings.

[Catherina]

25. Nor shall you ever

I regret having given the benefit of the doubt for a few weeks and thinking certain behavior was the result of being uninformed.

I'll be ignoring those childish posts, that are only meant to derail and distract, from now on because acknowledging them serves no productive purpose.

Thank you my friend.

[Catherina]

9. Here's more for you. Protecting the poor

February 2007

President Hugo Chavez's administration blames the food supply problems on unscrupulous speculators, but industry officials say government price controls that strangle profits are responsible. Authorities on Wednesday raided a warehouse in Caracas and seized seven tons of sugar hoarded by vendors unwilling to market the inventory at the official price.

Major private supermarkets suspended sales of beef earlier this week after one chain was shut down for 48 hours for pricing meat above government-set levels, but an agreement reached with the government on Wednesday night promises to return meat to empty refrigerator shelves.

Shortages have sporadically appeared with items from milk to coffee since early 2003, when Chavez began regulating prices for 400 basic products as a way to counter inflation and protect the poor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/08/AR2007020801240.html

I think you already know I'm as left as they come. I don't believe middlemen should be able to speculate and profit on necessities for basic needs of life such as food, shelter, water, health. A huge turning point in my life was when someone asked me "Where does the profit come from?". When you keep that question in mind and look at all the homeless and hungry, it helps you see how obscene and exploitative our capitalist model is. I finally got my answer, not from books, but from traveling and watching and reading- the profit comes on the backs of the poor.

[spanza]

21. You're showing the wrong indicator. You're looking for food imports over food consumption

Not food imports over total imports. What you put here is not related to the point you're trying to show. Concerning the article by The Hindu, you should find another source for stats. Especially when the author applauds reducing children malnutrition from 7.7% to 5% (almost nothing) in 23 years (!) Talk about a complete failure if that was also true...

[Judi Lynn]

22. Nice try in your attempt to harrass Catherina. You need a hobby.

Her position is far, far closer to the truth than you are attempting to portray.

Here's a quick grab from Wikipedia:

Infant malnutrition in children below five years of age decreased from 7.7% in 1990 to 2.9% in 2011.[69]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela

That's an impressive difference.

[spanza]

27. Maybe you should relax and then read

Please read again Catherina's post, the Hindu's numbers (which are false... my point) and then my post.

Also, since English isn't my first language, I went to look for the verb "harass" in the dictionary:

Definition of HARASS

1
a : exhaust, fatigue
b (1) : to annoy persistently (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct
2
: to worry and impede by repeated raids <harassed the enemy>


You know I write here very sporadicly, I don't see how I could harass anyone. The same isn't true for you apparently...

[Judi Lynn]

28. Really? "The dictionary" says the following:

[center][subject to aggressive pressure or intimidation [/center]

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/harass

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
The fact you "write here very sporadicly" doesn't allow you special privilege.

[spanza]

29. Hahaha, yes, really, I don't see any "aggressive pressure or intimidation" coming from my side

On the other hand, I'm glad that you understood The Hindu's numbers were worth nothing in this case.

[polly7]

2. Thanks Judy Lynn.

http://www.demotix.com/lightbox/venezuela-mourns-hugo-chavez

[Judi Lynn]

4. Such great images. Thank you for posting this link here.

Clearly there never has been, and never will be a figure from the right-wing, a man of the haters, who will EVER generate so much much affection and respect as this one man and his courageous efforts to bring change.

Is it any wonder they have embedded themselves in this message board like tumors to try to disrupt the normal chances of communication among democratic voices here?

Very glad to see the photos. Saving them for keeps. Wonderful.