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Tansy_Gold

(17,856 posts)
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:17 PM Jan 2013

STOCK MARKET WATCH -- Tuesday, 22 January 2013

[font size=3]STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday, 22 January 2013[font color=black][/font]


SMW for 18 January 2013

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON 18 January 2013
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Dow Jones 13,649.70 +53.68 (0.39%)
S&P 500 1,485.98 +5.04 (0.34%)
[font color=red]Nasdaq 3,134.71 -1.29 (-0.04%)


[font color=green]10 Year 1.84% -0.01 (-0.54%)
30 Year 3.03% -0.01 (-0.33%) [font color=black]


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[font size=2]Market Conditions During Trading Hours[/font]
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[font size=2]Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold[center]

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[font color=black][font size=2]Handy Links - Market Data and News:[/font][/font]
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Economic Calendar
Marketwatch Data
Bloomberg Economic News
Yahoo Finance
Google Finance
Bank Tracker
Credit Union Tracker
Daily Job Cuts
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[font color=black][font size=2]Handy Links - Essential Reading:[/font][/font]
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Matt Taibi: Secret and Lies of the Bailout


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[font color=black][font size=2]Handy Links - Government Issues:[/font][/font]
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LegitGov
Open Government
Earmark Database
USA spending.gov
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[font color=red]Partial List of Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 [/font][font color=red]
2/2/12 David Higgs and Salmaan Siddiqui, Credit Suisse, plead guilty to conspiracy involving valuation of MBS
3/6/12 Allen Stanford, former Caribbean billionaire and general schmuck, convicted on 13 of 14 counts in $2.2B Ponzi scheme, faces 20+ years in prison
6/4/12 Matthew Kluger, lawyer, sentenced to 12 years in prison, along with co-conspirator stock trader Garrett Bauer (9 years) and co-conspirator Kenneth Robinson (not yet sentenced) for 17 year insider trading scheme.
6/14/12 Allen Stanford sentenced to 110 years without parole.
6/15/12 Rajat Gupta, former Goldman Sachs director, found guilty of insider trading. Could face a decade in prison when sentenced later this year.
6/22/12 Timothy S. Durham, 49, former CEO of Fair Financial Company, convicted of one count conspiracy to commit wire and securities fraud, 10 counts of wire fraud, and one count of securities fraud.
6/22/12 James F. Cochran, 56, former chairman of the board of Fair, convicted of one count of conspiracy to commit wire and securities fraud, one count of securities fraud, and six counts of wire fraud.
6/22/12 Rick D. Snow, 48, former CFO of Fair, convicted of one count of conspiracy to commit wire and securities fraud, one count of securities fraud, and three counts of wire fraud.
7/13/12 Russell Wassendorf Sr., CEO of collapsed brokerage firm Peregrine Financial Group Inc. arrested and charged with lying to regulators after admitting to authorities he embezzled "millions of dollars" and forged bank statements for "nearly twenty years."
8/22/12 Doug Whitman, Whitman Capital LLC hedge fund founder, convicted of insider trading following a trial in which he spent more than two days on the stand telling jurors he was innocent
10/26/12 UPDATE: Former Goldman Sachs director Rajat Gupta sentenced to two years in federal prison. He will, of course, appeal. . .
11/20/12 Hedge fund manager Matthew Martoma charged with insider trading at SAC Capital Advisors, and prosecutors are looking at Martoma's boss, Steven Cohen, for possible involvement.



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[font size=3][font color=red]This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.[/font][/font][/font color=red][font color=black]


53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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STOCK MARKET WATCH -- Tuesday, 22 January 2013 (Original Post) Tansy_Gold Jan 2013 OP
I never heard "Stan, the Musical" Fuddnik Jan 2013 #1
I know what's important in this world. n/t Tansy_Gold Jan 2013 #2
There's no crying in baseball! Demeter Jan 2013 #3
Obama defends entitlements in speech Demeter Jan 2013 #4
Full text: Obama’s second inaugural address Demeter Jan 2013 #5
The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public Demeter Jan 2013 #6
Electronic warfare, oh how I hate that stuff siligut Jan 2013 #38
Is it Facism yet.... AnneD Jan 2013 #40
It's Fascism Demeter Jan 2013 #41
Post em.... AnneD Jan 2013 #45
It could be a folie a deux Demeter Jan 2013 #48
Tim Geithner, the King of Cloud Cuckoo Land Demeter Jan 2013 #7
The Legacy of Timothy Geithner By SIMON JOHNSON Demeter Jan 2013 #10
All I can do is hang my head. I wonder often how far along this.... Hotler Jan 2013 #31
No peace, no mercy Demeter Jan 2013 #32
NEW STAND-UP ECONOMIST VIDEO Demeter Jan 2013 #8
HIS WEBSITE: BOOKS, TOUR SCHEDULE, ETC Demeter Jan 2013 #9
Necro-economics! tclambert Jan 2013 #11
House Republicans seek vote to extend debt limit to May 19 Demeter Jan 2013 #12
Gold above $1,690/oz after BOJ policy call Demeter Jan 2013 #13
Wait until the information... AnneD Jan 2013 #43
I predict Demeter Jan 2013 #49
well -- i'm dressed and ready for the week xchrom Jan 2013 #14
You are missing about 3 layers, there Demeter Jan 2013 #18
YIKES! that is cold. xchrom Jan 2013 #22
Working like it never had a problem Demeter Jan 2013 #24
Brrr! 'Dead Of Winter' Sets In; Coldest Air In Nearly Two Years Demeter Jan 2013 #25
I, for one, am getting tired of picking tomatoes. Fuddnik Jan 2013 #30
Look for a bumper crop... AnneD Jan 2013 #46
Just keeping you on your toes. Fuddnik Jan 2013 #52
yeah - never seems to work that way though -- when it rains it pours. nt xchrom Jan 2013 #27
Meanwhile, we got only about two weeks of winter here in the desert. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #35
2pm and it's only 12 DemReadingDU Jan 2013 #51
Just talked to a friend of mine in Cleveland. It was 7 degrees there. Fuddnik Jan 2013 #53
ILO: Global Unemployment to Rise Again {pretty big news} xchrom Jan 2013 #15
Look, Jobs and Income not longer correlate Demeter Jan 2013 #20
A job that just keeps you fed.... AnneD Jan 2013 #47
Depends on how you define slavery and who you ask Demeter Jan 2013 #50
PM orders “exhaustive” audits into PP’s finances xchrom Jan 2013 #16
Executives convicted of offenses will be allowed to head up Spanish banks xchrom Jan 2013 #17
Obama Channels Eisenhower With Anemic Government Spending Growth xchrom Jan 2013 #19
German Investor Confidence Increases to 2 1/2-Year High xchrom Jan 2013 #21
Obama’s goals are Mission Impossible Demeter Jan 2013 #23
Jack Lew Retained Citigroup Foreign Investments After Joining State Department; Public Kept In Dark Demeter Jan 2013 #26
{i shoulda been a prelate} How the Vatican built a secret property empire using Mussolini’s millions xchrom Jan 2013 #28
Charity obviously begins at home Demeter Jan 2013 #29
Davos Shows Army Ready for Worst in War Game Operation xchrom Jan 2013 #33
Because it worked so well last time... Demeter Jan 2013 #34
11 AM and 5F Demeter Jan 2013 #36
Sales Of Existing Homes Hit Five-Year High In 2012 Demeter Jan 2013 #37
I keep reading that it won't last siligut Jan 2013 #39
With the Big Banks getting Big Bribes to Keep their Foreclosed Properties off the Market Demeter Jan 2013 #42
Big banks made so much money, that is what got us into this mess siligut Jan 2013 #44
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
4. Obama defends entitlements in speech
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:19 PM
Jan 2013

That explains the weather around here...Hell must have frozen over.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-defends-entitlements-in-speech-2013-01-21

President Barack Obama on Monday used his inaugural address to put Republicans on notice that he’ll fight for robust entitlement programs and against climate change, digging in ahead of what will prove to be a blistering fight over U.S. government spending and deficits.

In a nearly 20-minute address from the U.S. Capitol, Obama hit high notes of unity and took pains to stress Americans’ common heritage and obligations. See MarketWatch's live stream of the inauguration.

At the same time, however, the 51-year-old former senator laid out goals for his second term that are certain to provoke the partisan wrangling that both sides were careful to avoid on Monday.

“The commitments we make to each other through Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, these things do not sap our initiative, they strengthen us,” Obama said. “They do not make us a nation of takers, they free us to take the risks that make this country great,” he said...

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
5. Full text: Obama’s second inaugural address
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:21 PM
Jan 2013
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/full-text-obamas-second-inaugural-address-2013-01-21

Vice President Biden, Mr. Chief Justice, Members of the United States Congress, distinguished guests, and fellow citizens:

Each time we gather to inaugurate a president, we bear witness to the enduring strength of our Constitution. We affirm the promise of our democracy. We recall that what binds this nation together is not the colors of our skin or the tenets of our faith or the origins of our names. What makes us exceptional – what makes us American – is our allegiance to an idea, articulated in a declaration made more than two centuries ago:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”

Today we continue a never-ending journey, to bridge the meaning of those words with the realities of our time. For history tells us that while these truths may be self-evident, they have never been self-executing; that while freedom is a gift from God, it must be secured by His people here on Earth. The patriots of 1776 did not fight to replace the tyranny of a king with the privileges of a few or the rule of a mob. They gave to us a Republic, a government of, and by, and for the people, entrusting each generation to keep safe our founding creed.

For more than two hundred years, we have.

Through blood drawn by lash and blood drawn by sword, we learned that no union founded on the principles of liberty and equality could survive half-slave and half-free. We made ourselves anew, and vowed to move forward together.

President Barack Obama is sworn in by Chief Justice John Roberts to begin his second term in office.

Together, we determined that a modern economy requires railroads and highways to speed travel and commerce; schools and colleges to train our workers.

Together, we discovered that a free market only thrives when there are rules to ensure competition and fair play.

Together, we resolved that a great nation must care for the vulnerable, and protect its people from life’s worst hazards and misfortune.

Through it all, we have never relinquished our skepticism of central authority, nor have we succumbed to the fiction that all society’s ills can be cured through government alone. Our celebration of initiative and enterprise; our insistence on hard work and personal responsibility, are constants in our character.

But we have always understood that when times change, so must we; that fidelity to our founding principles requires new responses to new challenges; that preserving our individual freedoms ultimately requires collective action. For the American people can no more meet the demands of today’s world by acting alone than American soldiers could have met the forces of fascism or communism with muskets and militias. No single person can train all the math and science teachers we’ll need to equip our children for the future, or build the roads and networks and research labs that will bring new jobs and businesses to our shores. Now, more than ever, we must do these things together, as one nation, and one people.

This generation of Americans has been tested by crises that steeled our resolve and proved our resilience. A decade of war is now ending. An economic recovery has begun. America’s possibilities are limitless, for we possess all the qualities that this world without boundaries demands: youth and drive; diversity and openness; an endless capacity for risk and a gift for reinvention. My fellow Americans, we are made for this moment, and we will seize it – so long as we seize it together.

For we, the people, understand that our country cannot succeed when a shrinking few do very well and a growing many barely make it. We believe that America’s prosperity must rest upon the broad shoulders of a rising middle class. We know that America thrives when every person can find independence and pride in their work; when the wages of honest labor liberate families from the brink of hardship. We are true to our creed when a little girl born into the bleakest poverty knows that she has the same chance to succeed as anybody else, because she is an American, she is free, and she is equal, not just in the eyes of God but also in our own.

We understand that outworn programs are inadequate to the needs of our time. We must harness new ideas and technology to remake our government, revamp our tax code, reform our schools, and empower our citizens with the skills they need to work harder, learn more, and reach higher. But while the means will change, our purpose endures: a nation that rewards the effort and determination of every single American. That is what this moment requires. That is what will give real meaning to our creed.

We, the people, still believe that every citizen deserves a basic measure of security and dignity. We must make the hard choices to reduce the cost of health care and the size of our deficit. But we reject the belief that America must choose between caring for the generation that built this country and investing in the generation that will build

its future. For we remember the lessons of our past, when twilight years were spent in poverty, and parents of a child with a disability had nowhere to turn. We do not believe that in this country, freedom is reserved for the lucky, or happiness for the few. We recognize that no matter how responsibly we live our lives, any one of us, at any time, may face a job loss, or a sudden illness, or a home swept away in a terrible storm. The commitments we make to each other – through Medicare, and Medicaid, and Social Security – these things do not sap our initiative; they strengthen us. They do not make us a nation of takers; they free us to take the risks that make this country great.

We, the people, still believe that our obligations as Americans are not just to ourselves, but to all posterity. We will respond to the threat of climate change, knowing that the failure to do so would betray our children and future generations. Some may still deny the overwhelming judgment of science, but none can avoid the devastating impact of raging fires, and crippling drought, and more powerful storms. The path toward sustainable energy sources will be long and sometimes difficult. But America cannot resist this transition; we must lead it. We cannot cede to other nations the technology that will power new jobs and new industries – we must claim its promise. That is how we will maintain our economic vitality and our national treasure – our forests and waterways; our croplands and snowcapped peaks. That is how we will preserve our planet, commanded to our care by God. That’s what will lend meaning to the creed our fathers once declared.

We, the people, still believe that enduring security and lasting peace do not require perpetual war. Our brave men and women in uniform, tempered by the flames of battle, are unmatched in skill and courage. Our citizens, seared by the memory of those we have lost, know too well the price that is paid for liberty. The knowledge of their sacrifice will keep us forever vigilant against those who would do us harm. But we are also heirs to those who won the peace and not just the war, who turned sworn enemies into the surest of friends, and we must carry those lessons into this time as well.

We will defend our people and uphold our values through strength of arms and rule of law. We will show the courage to try and resolve our differences with other nations peacefully – not because we are naïve about the dangers we face, but because engagement can more durably lift suspicion and fear. America will remain the anchor of strong alliances in every corner of the globe; and we will renew those institutions that extend our capacity to manage crisis abroad, for no one has a greater stake in a peaceful world than its most powerful nation. We will support democracy from Asia to Africa; from the Americas to the Middle East, because our interests and our conscience compel us to act on behalf of those who long for freedom. And we must be a source of hope to the poor, the sick, the marginalized, the victims of prejudice – not out of mere charity, but because peace in our time requires the constant advance of those principles that our common creed describes: tolerance and opportunity; human dignity and justice.

We, the people, declare today that the most evident of truths – that all of us are created equal – is the star that guides us still; just as it guided our forebears through Seneca Falls, and Selma, and Stonewall; just as it guided all those men and women, sung and unsung, who left footprints along this great Mall, to hear a preacher say that we cannot walk alone; to hear a King proclaim that our individual freedom is inextricably bound to the freedom of every soul on Earth.

It is now our generation’s task to carry on what those pioneers began. For our journey is not complete until our wives, our mothers, and daughters can earn a living equal to their efforts. Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law – for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well. Our journey is not complete until no citizen is forced to wait for hours to exercise the right to vote. Our journey is not complete until we find a better way to welcome the striving, hopeful immigrants who still see America as a land of opportunity; until bright young students and engineers are enlisted in our workforce rather than expelled from our country. Our journey is not complete until all our children, from the streets of Detroit to the hills of Appalachia to the quiet lanes of Newtown, know that they are cared for, and cherished, and always safe from harm.

That is our generation’s task – to make these words, these rights, these values – of Life, and Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness – real for every American. Being true to our founding documents does not require us to agree on every contour of life; it does not mean we will all define liberty in exactly the same way, or follow the same precise path to happiness. Progress does not compel us to settle centuries-long debates about the role of government for all time – but it does require us to act in our time.

For now decisions are upon us, and we cannot afford delay. We cannot mistake absolutism for principle, or substitute spectacle for politics, or treat name-calling as reasoned debate. We must act, knowing that our work will be imperfect. We must act, knowing that today’s victories will be only partial, and that it will be up to those who stand here in four years, and forty years, and four hundred years hence to advance the timeless spirit once conferred to us in a spare Philadelphia hall.

My fellow Americans, the oath I have sworn before you today, like the one recited by others who serve in this Capitol, was an oath to God and country, not party or faction – and we must faithfully execute that pledge during the duration of our service. But the words I spoke today are not so different from the oath that is taken each time a soldier signs up for duty, or an immigrant realizes her dream. My oath is not so different from the pledge we all make to the flag that waves above and that fills our hearts with pride.

They are the words of citizens, and they represent our greatest hope.

You and I, as citizens, have the power to set this country’s course.

You and I, as citizens, have the obligation to shape the debates of our time – not only with the votes we cast, but with the voices we lift in defense of our most ancient values and enduring ideals.

Let each of us now embrace, with solemn duty and awesome joy, what is our lasting birthright. With common effort and common purpose, with passion and dedication, let us answer the call of history, and carry into an uncertain future that precious light of freedom.

Thank you, God Bless you, and may He forever bless these United States of America.

VIDEO AT LINK
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
6. The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:23 PM
Jan 2013
http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5

The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed.

The amendment — proposed by Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) and Adam Smith (D-Wash.) and passed in the House last Friday afternoon — would effectively nullify the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbids information and psychological operations aimed at influencing U.S. public opinion.

Thornberry said that the current law “ties the hands of America’s diplomatic officials, military, and others by inhibiting our ability to effectively communicate in a credible way,” according to Buzzfeed.

The vote came two days after a federal judged ruled that an indefinite detention provision in the annual defense bill was unconstitutional...

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5#ixzz2IewLKWfk

siligut

(12,272 posts)
38. Electronic warfare, oh how I hate that stuff
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:35 PM
Jan 2013
Lt. Col. Daniel Davis, who released a highly critical report regarding the distortion of truth by senior military officials in Iraq and Afghanistan, dedicated a section of his report to Information Operations (IO) and states that after Desert Storm the military wanted to transform IO "into a core military competency on a par with air, ground, maritime and special operations."

Davis defines IO as "the integrated employment of electronic warfare (EW), computer network operations (CNO), psychological operations (PSYOP), military deception (MILDEC), and operations security (OPSEC), in concert with specified supporting and related capabilities, to influence, disrupt, corrupt or usurp adversarial human and automated decision making while protecting our own."

IO are primarily used to target foreign audiences, but Davis cites numerous senior leaders who want to "protect a key friendly center of gravity, to wit US national will" by repealing the Smith-Mundt Act to allow the direct deployment of these tactics on the American public


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5#ixzz2IirvLPtY


Actually explains that crazy RW who act in complete opposition to their own interests, but understanding the problem in this case doesn't offer the solution.
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
41. It's Fascism
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:12 PM
Jan 2013

Time for masks. Theirs to come off. Ours to go on. I've bookmarked a site that tells how to foil infrared detection and ccomputerized face recognition...

AnneD

(15,774 posts)
45. Post em....
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:41 PM
Jan 2013

if you got em.

Edited to add....thanks for confirming that I am not as paranoid as I thought.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
7. Tim Geithner, the King of Cloud Cuckoo Land
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:31 PM
Jan 2013
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/Finance/tim-geithner-the-king-of-cloud-cuckoo-land.html

On January 25, Timothy Geithner will step down as US Treasury Secretary. A lot of people will say and write a lot of things about him at that point, and it sounds like a good idea to be ahead of the game and provide some perspective. There are voices claiming (there will be many more, promise) that Geithner pulled us out of the recession and the crisis, and saved the economy. That seems presumptuous. It may just as well be true that Geithner has fooled us into thinking that. Just because the stock markets are pulling through so far doesn't mean, let alone prove, that the economy has recovered or been saved. You would need something better, more substantial than that. While acknowledging that relatively strong stock market numbers are at least in potential a great way indeed to fool people about the economy. And going forward we can wax nostalgically about everything Tim has done, and about where the economy is now compared to 4 years ago, but when all else is said and done, there is still just one question that counts: what happened to the debt? What has Geithner done when it comes to debt? As long as you don't know what happened to the debt, you won't know the true state of the economy.

Well, Americans still have higher personal debt levels than they ever had before (in fact, the best anti-gun law would be to ban paying for them with credit) and government debt has grown exponentially. Those things at least we know to an extent; when it comes to bank debt, we don't know much of anything. Tim has made sure of that. He's handed trillions of dollars in our money to Wall Street and we haven't received anything in return. Well, yes, we have the semblance of a somewhat stable stock market, but is that worth all that extra debt? Moreover, we still don't know what happened to the debt that caused the crisis in the first place, because Tim made sure it has been kept hidden from view. And how's that a good thing again?

Look, you can save banks that are in deep debt trouble, and perhaps that's not necessarily such a bad thing, since letting them fail outright would have been a risky proposition. But you can't make the choice to save banks and not at the same time restructure those debts and expose and prosecute the bankers who put their firms into a situation that necessitated saving them in the first place, and were paid big bonuses for doing it. That is not alright by any stretch of the imagination, either ethically or economically. Because the money used to save them comes from outside of the financial system; it comes from the taxes that everybody pays. And that means it has to be accounted for. But it never was.

The only reason the policy - if you can call it that - of handing banks trillions in cheap credit appears to work is because its consequences cannot be felt immediately, but are pushed forward into the future. That doesn't absolve us from having to ask what happened to the debt, though, but we still have no answer to that question, and Tim Geithner carries a substantial part of the blame for that...If you're interested only in yourself, and you're just looking to make a quick buck, sure, things may look good. And if you think you can best achieve your goals by things staying the same, by keeping the system going as it is, yeah, you're likely to think that Tim Geithner has done a swell job, because from that point of view he has saved you. But if you care about anything that goes beyond just today, and beyond the few square miles that make up your world, if you care about your family, your friends, your kids and their future, Tim Geithner is not your man. He set up the system so it would continue to provide fast money for the horses with blinders, but he's done it with money that everyone else is on the hook for. Just not today, not right away.


The main problem from a purely technical point of view with the way Geithner has gone about business is that it's to a large extent zombie money that drives markets today, money that would not have existed if debts had been properly restructured.

MORE DIRE PREDICTIONS AT LINK
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
10. The Legacy of Timothy Geithner By SIMON JOHNSON
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:57 PM
Jan 2013
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/the-legacy-of-timothy-geithner/?ref=business

Simon Johnson, former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is the Ronald A. Kurtz Professor of Entrepreneurship at the M.I.T. Sloan School of Management and co-author of “White House Burning: The Founding Fathers, Our National Debt, and Why It Matters to You.”

************************************************************

“Too big to fail is too big to continue. The megabanks have too much power in Washington and too much weight within the financial system.” Who said this and when?

The answer is Peggy Noonan, the prominent conservative commentator, writing recently in The Wall Street Journal.


As Timothy F. Geithner prepares to leave the Treasury Department, most assessments focus on how his policies affected the economy. But his lasting legacy may be more political, contributing to the creation of an issue that can now be seized either by the right or the left. What should be done about the too-big-to-fail category of financial institutions?

Mr. Geithner came to Treasury in the middle of a severe financial crisis, a set of problems that he helped to create and then worked hard to prevent from worsening. As president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, starting in 2003, he watched over – and failed to defuse – the buildup of systemic risk. In fact, the New York Fed was relatively on the side of allowing large, seemingly sophisticated financial institutions to fund themselves with more debt relative to their thin levels of equity. This was a major conceptual mistake for which there still has not been a full accounting. In fact, blank denial continues to be the reaction from the relevant officials. Mr. Geithner was also in the hot seat as more explicit government support for large financial institutions began in earnest in early 2008. The New York Fed brokered the sale of failing Bear Stearns to relatively healthy JPMorgan Chase, with the Fed providing substantial downside insurance to JPMorgan, against potential losses from assets they were acquiring.

Mr. Geithner also acquiesced to Jamie Dimon, the chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, allowing him to remain on the board of the New York Fed even as his bank was suddenly the recipient of very large additional subsidies (the insurance for his acquisition of Bear Stearns). This was the beginning of a deeper public realization that there had come to be too little distance between some parts of the Federal Reserve and the big banks. For some senior officials within the Federal Reserve System, the appearance of this potential conflict of interest was a cause for grave concern. Unfortunately, their concerns were ignored by the New York Fed and by leadership at the Board of Governors in Washington. The result has been damage to the Fed’s reputation and an unnecessary slip toward undermining its political independence.

From March 2008, when Bear Stearns almost failed, through September 2008, very little was done to reduce the level of risk in the financial system. Again, Mr. Geithner must bear some responsibility. In fall 2008, Mr. Geithner worked closely with Henry Paulson – Treasury secretary at the time – in an attempt to prevent the problems at Lehman Brothers from spreading. They were unsuccessful, in fairly spectacular fashion. The failure to anticipate the difficulties at American International Group must stand out as one of the biggest lapses ever of financial intelligence – again, a responsibility in part of the New York Fed (although surely other government officials share some blame). As the problems escalated, Mr. Geithner came to stand for providing large amounts of unconditional support for very big banks – including Citigroup, where Robert Rubin, his mentor, had overseen the dubious hiring of a chief executive and more general mismanagement of risk. (While a director of Citigroup, Mr. Rubin denied responsibility for what went wrong.) Rather than moving to change management, directors or anything about the big banks’ practices, Mr. Geithner favored more financial assistance – both from the budget (through various versions of the Troubled Asset Relief Program), from the Federal Reserve (through various kinds of cheap loans) and from all other available means, including insurance for private debt issues provided by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.

In official discussions, Mr. Geithner consistently stood for more support with weaker (or no) conditions.... (See “Bull by the Horns,” by Sheila Bair, former chairwoman of the F.D.I.C., for the most credible account of what happened.) Mr. Geithner’s appointment as Treasury secretary in January 2009 allowed him to continue to scale up these efforts. In retrospect, what helped stem the panic was the joint statement of Feb. 23, 2009, issued by the Treasury, the F.D.I.C., the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the Office of Thrift Supervision and the Federal Reserve, that included this statement of principle:

The U.S. government stands firmly behind the banking system during this period of financial strain to ensure it will be able to perform its key function of providing credit to households and businesses. The government will ensure that banks have the capital and liquidity they need to provide the credit necessary to restore economic growth. Moreover, we reiterate our determination to preserve the viability of systemically important financial institutions so that they are able to meet their commitments.


AMAZING ACCOUNT OF RECENT HISTORY AND ANALYSIS OF IT CONTINUES AT LINK

Hotler

(11,420 posts)
31. All I can do is hang my head. I wonder often how far along this....
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:24 AM
Jan 2013

country could be for the better had there been some justice served to the fuckers on Wall St. Have a good week my friends, peace to you.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
32. No peace, no mercy
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:29 AM
Jan 2013

Justice will come for the evildoers, because failure to do so is impossible. I don't know how long it will take, though.

The problem is justice will not come for their victims. Ever. Unless a miracle occurs.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
12. House Republicans seek vote to extend debt limit to May 19
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:55 AM
Jan 2013
http://news.yahoo.com/house-republicans-seek-vote-extend-debt-limit-may-001505215--business.html

Republican leaders in the House of Representatives said they aim to pass on Wednesday a nearly four-month extension of the U.S. debt limit, to May 19. The measure does not specify a new dollar amount but allows the government to borrow what is needed to meet its obligations during the extension period, according to legislative language released on Monday. The proposed extension is a strategic move by House Republicans to back away from a fight over the federal debt ceiling and shift their demands to other fiscal deadlines that would not risk a devastating default on U.S. debt. These deadlines include a March 1 launch of automatic spending cuts and a March 27 expiration of funding for government agencies and programs...



The strategy shift, agreed last week by House Republicans at a retreat in Williamsburg, Virginia, also aims to draw the Democratic-controlled Senate into taking action to cut deficits by requiring it to pass a budget resolution by April 15. Under the proposed legislation, if either the House or Senate fails to meet the April 15 budget deadline, lawmakers' pay would be withheld under the measure until their chamber passes a budget. If none is passed, they would eventually get paid, but not until next January 15.

The Senate has not passed a budget in nearly four years, drawing Republican complaints that it is unwilling to make tough decisions to reform costly government healthcare programs.

...The U.S. Treasury expects to exhaust current authority to borrow money, now at $16.4 trillion, sometime between mid-February and early March...There is also some wiggle room in the extension to May 19, because the U.S. Treasury would be able to replenish its sources of emergency borrowing capacity. This could allow it to keep borrowing for six to eight additional weeks, pushing back a final day of reckoning to perhaps mid-July...


WOULD HARRY REID PLEASE EXPLAIN TO THE NATION WHY THE SENATE HASN'T PASSED A BUDGET IN 4 YEARS?
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
13. Gold above $1,690/oz after BOJ policy call
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:20 AM
Jan 2013

LOOKS LIKE ALL COMMODITIES ARE CREEPING BACK UP...AFTER ALL, WHERE ELSE CAN ONE SPECULATE WITH ABANDON?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-above-1690oz-after-boj-policy-call-2013-01-22?siteid=YAHOOB

Gold futures climbed above $1,690 an ounce on Tuesday, buoyed by weakness in the U.S. dollar and the Bank of Japan’s decision to loosen its monetary policy.

... Tuesday’s gains came as the Japanese central bank said it would continue its asset purchases on an “open-ended” basis to further expand its monetary stimulus. It formally adopted a 2% inflation target, replacing its previous target of a 1% inflation level. See: Bank of Japan to adopt 2% inflation target

A softer dollar also provided support for gold prices, as commodities traded in the U.S. currency got cheaper for other currency holders.

Gold investors, however, seemed to shrug off news from India, where the government on Monday with immediate effect raised duties on gold imports to 6% from 4% to reduce the country’s high current-account deficit...

AnneD

(15,774 posts)
43. Wait until the information...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:38 PM
Jan 2013

about Germany repatriation of a large percentage of their gold starts to sink in and the fall out begins.


The biggest gold market news in recent days was undoubtedly the announcement by the German central bank that they will repatriate some 674 tonnes of the nation's gold reserves currently held in central bank vaults in Paris and New York.




http://seekingalpha.com/article/1122531-german-gold-repatriation-and-surging-silver-etf-holdings-drive-precious-metals-higher?source=google_news



Jim Sinclair: German Gold Repatriation is the Most Significant Gold Event in 50 Years, Beginning of the End of the US Dollar As Reserve Currency


Posted on January 15, 2013 by The Doc| 21 Comments
Legendary gold trader Jim Sinclair has sent an email alert to subscribers today regarding last night’s news that Germany will begin repatriating it’s gold held on deposit at the NY Fed back to the Bundesbank, as well as all 374 tons held at the Bank of France.
Sinclair states that history will look back on this salvo fired across US war financing as being the beginning of the end of the US dollar as the reserve currency of choice, and that under normal circumstances, no major central bank would insult another major central bank in the way that the Bundesbank just has.

http://maxkeiser.com/2013/01/15/jim-sinclair-german-gold-repatriation-is-the-most-significant-gold-event-in-50-years-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-us-dollar-as-reserve-currency/


The last time some one suggested that they wanted their gold, they (Gaddafi) ended up being carpet bombed. What"s next, are we going to bomb Dresden again, nix the knockwurst and have freedom dogs?

Just a heads up for you guys. YMMV.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
49. I predict
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:09 PM
Jan 2013

a stealth buying effort by Treasury to get enough unencumbered, real gold together to deliver. And it will shoot the price to the moon, or alternatively, trash the dollar.

Chavez already brought his country's gold home. Aside from the continual badmouthing and circling of vultures, he's relatively unscathed.

I can't believe the whining about his going to Cuba for medical treatment. Like he's going to go into surgery where the CIA can get at him?

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
18. You are missing about 3 layers, there
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:32 AM
Jan 2013

but the style is appropriate for the schedule....

It was -5F when I got up to take the trash out...now it's -7F.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
24. Working like it never had a problem
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:40 AM
Jan 2013

I should be grateful...but couldn't it have waited until March, during regular business hours?

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
25. Brrr! 'Dead Of Winter' Sets In; Coldest Air In Nearly Two Years
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:51 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/22/169956301/brrr-dead-of-winter-sets-in-coldest-air-in-nearly-two-years?ft=1&f=1001

It felt like -51 degrees Fahrenheit in Langdon, N.D., on Monday and brutal wind chills like that are going to continue across northern states as winter really sets in.

Even in the "warmer" places, it's not going to feel like it's much above zero for the next few days. And "lake effect" snows are expected to pile up around the Great Lakes.

Weather Underground's Jeff Masters says this big freeze is bringing some of the coldest temperatures the nation has seen in nearly two years. And the low, low readings will continue through the week from the upper Plains to New England and down into the mid-Atlantic.

The Weather Channel puts on its mom hat to tell folks that "scarves, stocking caps, long underwear — all of it will come in handy for millions of you this week."

MORE

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
30. I, for one, am getting tired of picking tomatoes.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:19 AM
Jan 2013

I pulled about two dozen off the plants yesterday morning.

And the peppers. I picked them clean about 10 days ago, getting ready to get the beds ready to re-plant in a couple of weeks. I went out yesterday morning, and they were loaded down again. I picked a ton of them yesterday, and I'll have another load in a couple of days. And more tomatoes.

AnneD

(15,774 posts)
46. Look for a bumper crop...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:50 PM
Jan 2013

of fleas ticks and other bugs this summer. Just a heads up for your hairy butt children. Hey and I saw that comment you made about me.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
35. Meanwhile, we got only about two weeks of winter here in the desert.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:31 AM
Jan 2013

There were 3 nights that got really cold (for us) and a couple of weeks of cool and overcast. It's getting into the 60s here now and the 80s in AZ.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
53. Just talked to a friend of mine in Cleveland. It was 7 degrees there.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:59 PM
Jan 2013

Wind chill -10.

He's headed down here for the rest of the winter on Sat. He kept saying, "Why the hell didn't I leave yesterday"?

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
15. ILO: Global Unemployment to Rise Again {pretty big news}
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:27 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.voanews.com/content/unemployment-world/1588243.html

GENEVA — The International Labor Organization reports nearly 200 million people worldwide are without jobs, and it forecasts higher unemployment this year. The ILO’s “Global Employment Trends 2013” report warns the high level of youth unemployment is of particular concern.

The International Labor Organization reports the number of unemployed worldwide rose by 4.2 million in 2012 after falling for two straight years. It says one-quarter of that increase is in the advanced economies, while three-quarters is in developing economies in East and South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa.

The report finds a further 39 million people around the world have dropped out of the labor market and are not counted in the jobless rate. It says the average duration of unemployment has increased significantly, with one-third of all job seekers in developed countries being unemployed for one year or longer.

ILO Director-General Guy Ryder says future prospects are not good, as the forecast global economic recovery is not expected to be strong enough to bring down unemployment quickly.
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
20. Look, Jobs and Income not longer correlate
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:36 AM
Jan 2013

You can have a job that won't keep you alive economically or spiritually, but you eat.

You can have meaningful work that is unpaid but rewarding.

The real trick is to get a job worth having. As far as I can tell, there no longer are any.

You think Blankfein has a job? He has a Principality. He doesn't need the work or the money, but he's addicted to power and abusing people, depriving them of all the requirements for life.

AnneD

(15,774 posts)
47. A job that just keeps you fed....
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:05 PM
Jan 2013

meaningful work that is unpaid but rewarding?????

Maybe I am slow on the uptake, but didn't the Thirteenth Amendment do away with slavery?

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
50. Depends on how you define slavery and who you ask
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:11 PM
Jan 2013

I've seen meaningful arguments that slavery never ended, but was extended to the 80%...

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
16. PM orders “exhaustive” audits into PP’s finances
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:29 AM
Jan 2013
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/01/21/inenglish/1358798208_196919.html

Attempting to ward off an explosive situation inside his Popular Party (PP) over reports of illegal cash payments being handed out to top leaders, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy on Monday ordered “profound and exhaustive” audits of his organization’s finances and donations.

The first audit will be conducted internally by party treasurer Carmen Navarro and the results will be turned over to independent auditors from a firm that has yet to be identified, Rajoy told the National Executive Committee.

The PP has been jolted by allegations that many of its leaders since the 1990s received envelopes of cash from undisclosed sources as bonuses along with their regular salaries. According to the former PP deputy, Jorge Trías Sagnier, the money was handed out by former treasurers Luis Bárcenas and Álvaro Lapuerta.

The political establishment was rocked last week when Swiss officials told a Spanish court that they had traced some 22 million euros in cash in a secret bank account to Bárcenas. The former treasurer and ex-senator, who for 18 years was part of a team that handled the PP’s finances, has been indicted in the massive Gürtel kickbacks-for-contracts case on money laundering and tax evasion charges.

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
17. Executives convicted of offenses will be allowed to head up Spanish banks
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:30 AM
Jan 2013
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/01/22/inenglish/1358859650_374341.html

The government began a consultation process on Monday for a royal decree that would reduce the requisites in terms of integrity, experience and good governance for candidates wishing to head up the country’s banks. According to the draft legislation, the Bank of Spain would be responsible for making the judgment as to whether these conditions are met, paving the way for a large amount of discretion regarding the final decision.

For the first time ever, having been convicted for criminal offenses will not be sufficient cause to stop an executive from taking a senior role in a bank. The text of the decree states that “anyone who has been able to demonstrate that their personal, commercial and professional conduct does not throw into doubt their capacity to diligently and prudently manage a bank” will be eligible.

If a candidate happens to be involved at the time in a criminal trial, the Bank of Spain will analyze “whether the sentence or sanction is final; the severity of the sentence or sanction handed down; and the classification of the facts that led to the sentence.”

The text pays particular attention as to whether the offenses are related to money laundering, tax evasion, Social Security fraud or violations of the regulatory framework covering banking.

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
19. Obama Channels Eisenhower With Anemic Government Spending Growth
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:33 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-22/obama-channels-eisenhower-with-anemic-government-spending-growth.html

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell says it’s time for the president to “get serious about spending.” The budget numbers suggest Barack Obama already has, with beneficial effects on the deficit.

Federal outlays over the past three years grew at their slowest pace since 1953-56, when Dwight D. Eisenhower was president. Expenditures as a share of the economy sank last year to 22.8 percent, their lowest level since 2008, according to Congressional Budget Office data. That’s down from 24.1 percent in 2011 and a 64-year high of 25.2 percent in 2009, when Obama pushed through an $831 billion stimulus package.

“If you strip out the stimulus, discretionary spending over the last few years has been quite modest and is scheduled to go to levels we haven’t experienced in modern times,” Robert Reischauer, a former director of the CBO, said in an interview. “Obama signed on to that,” partly in response to Republican pressure.

The slowdown in government spending has helped bring down the budget deficit, especially when measured against the size of the economy. The shortfall fell to $1.1 trillion, or 7 percent of gross domestic product, in the 2012 fiscal year ended Sept. 30, from $1.3 trillion, or 8.7 percent of GDP in 2011. In fiscal 2009, it was $1.4 trillion, or 10.1 percent of the economy, the highest since World War II.

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
21. German Investor Confidence Increases to 2 1/2-Year High
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:36 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-22/german-investor-confidence-increases-to-2-1-2-year-high.html

German investor confidence increased to the highest in 2 1/2 years in January, adding to signs that Europe’s largest economy may gather momentum.

The ZEW Center for European Economic Research in Mannheim said its index of investor and analyst expectations, which aims to predict economic developments six months in advance, jumped to 31.5 from 6.9 in December. That’s the highest since May 2010 and the biggest gain in 11 months. Economists forecast an increase to 12, according to the median of 39 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey.

While Germany’s statistics office estimates the economy may have shrunk as much as 0.5 percent in the final quarter of 2012, the Bundesbank said yesterday there are indications that a recovery has already begun. Business confidence rose for a second month in December and the country’s service industries returned to growth. The European Central Bank predicts that the euro-area economy will exit its recession later this year.

“It gives reason for optimism,” said Jens Kramer, an economist at NordLB in Hanover, Germany. “We should see a considerable economic improvement toward mid-year with stronger momentum. The worst in the crisis seems to be behind us.”
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
23. Obama’s goals are Mission Impossible
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:38 AM
Jan 2013

WELL, THAT'S ONE WAY OF PUTTING IT

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamas-goals-are-mission-impossible-2013-01-22?siteid=YAHOOB

When it comes to the economy, President Obama is taking on conflicting objectives for his second term.

Like any president, Obama used his inaugural address to lay out his view of where we are and where he would like to take us. And like any president, he has to deal with politics as well as economics in order to achieve his goals.

When it comes to dealing with economic objectives, the 51-year-old former senator appears to have ambitious goals — which together are virtually impossible to achieve in today’s climate.

For example, his overriding mission is to grow the economy faster so that more jobs will be created. At the same time, he will be under pressure to trim government spending while finding new revenues in order to reduce the budget deficit...

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
26. Jack Lew Retained Citigroup Foreign Investments After Joining State Department; Public Kept In Dark
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 09:55 AM
Jan 2013

IN OTHER WORDS, HE'S ANOTHER OF WALL ST'S "MADE" MEN

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2013/01/treasury-nominee-jack-lew-retained-citigroup-foreign-investments-after-joining-obama-state-department-public-kept-in-dark/

It has been previously reported that President Obama’s Treasury Secretary nominee, Jacob (Jack) Lew, earned millions in salary and bonus from Citigroup in the brief two and one half years he worked there. That should not come as a surprise to anyone. Former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin left his post as Treasury Secretary in 1999 to join Citigroup and was paid $120 million over the next eight years for non-management work.

Citigroup is the mega bank the Securities and Exchange Commission charged with lying about its financial condition while Lew worked there in an executive position. Citigroup went from lying about its finances in 2007 to cumulatively requiring over $2.51 trillion in Federal Reserve loans, TARP capital and Federal asset guarantees to remain afloat during the financial crisis. During Lew’s stint at Citigroup, July 2006 through early 2009, Citigroup lost 85 percent of its shareholders’ value.

A review of documents submitted to the U.S. Senate Budget Committee for Lew’s confirmation hearing on September 16, 2010 to become Director of the Office of Management and Budget indicates Lew’s financial ties to Citigroup continued long after he joined the Obama administration. The public is being kept in the dark about the extent of Lew’s winnings at the Citigroup casino and its heads we win, tails you lose dealer tables.

One section of the documents (see link below) refers to “Business Relationships” and indicates that Lew had been a limited partner from 2007 through the date of the hearing on September 16, 2010 in the CVCI Private Equity Fund. There is nothing in these documents to enlighten either the Senators or the public that CVCI is an acronym for Citi Venture Capital International, a unit of Citigroup investing billions in foreign companies in hopes of making its limited partners very wealthy. (A limited partner in a private equity fund is synonymous with being an investor in the fund.) ....

MORE SLIME AND SLEAZE AT LINK

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
28. {i shoulda been a prelate} How the Vatican built a secret property empire using Mussolini’s millions
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:04 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/21/how-the-vatican-built-a-secret-property-empire-using-mussolinis-millions/

Few passing London tourists would ever guess that the premises of Bulgari, the upmarket jewellers in New Bond Street, had anything to do with the pope. Nor indeed the nearby headquarters of the wealthy investment bank Altium Capital, on the corner of St James’s Square and Pall Mall.

But these office blocks in one of London’s most expensive districts are part of a surprising secret commercial property empire owned by the Vatican.

Behind a disguised offshore company structure, the church’s international portfolio has been built up over the years, using cash originally handed over by Mussolini in return for papal recognition of the Italian fascist regime in 1929.

Since then the international value of Mussolini’s nest-egg has mounted until it now exceeds £500m. In 2006, at the height of the recent property bubble, the Vatican spent £15m of those funds to buy 30 St James’s Square. Other UK properties are at 168 New Bond Street and in the city of Coventry. It also owns blocks of flats in Paris and Switzerland.

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
33. Davos Shows Army Ready for Worst in War Game Operation
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:02 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-22/davos-shows-army-ready-for-worst-in-biggest-operation-as-in-1847.html

As snipers fan out over the rooftops of the Alpine resort and the Swiss army rolls miles of barbed wire through the town, officers have more than the security of Mario Draghi and Lloyd Blankfein in mind. They are also preparing for a worst-case scenario: European chaos sparked by a collapse of the euro.

At their annual exercise in September, the Swiss army drilled for a conflict between two fictitious neighboring states in crisis. The challenge was figuring out how to turn Switzerland into a fortress that could keep out the flood of refugees a conflict would send its way.

“Rising nationalism in Europe is a trend that needs to be monitored,” Major-General Jean-Marc Halter, 54, Switzerland’s second-highest ranking officer who took charge of the war game and is overseeing security at Davos, said in an interview at his headquarters in the Swiss capital, Bern. “It’s the army’s job to protect the country against all possible security threats.”

While Switzerland hasn’t seen conflict since the Sonderbund civil war of 1847, Davos has provided a chance to demonstrate military readiness ever since former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat attended the forum in 1985. About 3,300 troops will protect government heads this year, including Britain’s David Cameron and Italy’s Mario Monti, and secure the airspace in a 46 kilometer (28 miles) radius around the Alpine village.
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
34. Because it worked so well last time...
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:19 AM
Jan 2013

The only reason Switzerland escaped is the bribes they paid the Nazis...redeeming Holocaust survivors insurance policies to Hitler....and other despicable betrayals.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
36. 11 AM and 5F
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jan 2013

Not that I'm sitting here watching the thermometer and the clock, gnashing my teeth....

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
42. With the Big Banks getting Big Bribes to Keep their Foreclosed Properties off the Market
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:15 PM
Jan 2013

It will last for a decade, probably. But by then, the economy will be dead anyway, based on current policy and trends.

I was born an optimist. Sadly, it's been beaten out of me.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
44. Big banks made so much money, that is what got us into this mess
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:38 PM
Jan 2013

Money doesn't just disappear, it goes into pockets. OK, speculation in the stock market, that isn't real money, real value, but whoever sold when it was high, that was real money, that came from real value.

I have been beaten up too, made me mad, strong and a little crazy.

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