New video on the potential dangers of the Trans-Pacific Partnership

[OrwellwasRight]

Please watch, sign the petition, and share!

The Administration is working hard to finish the negotiations for this trade & globalization agreement before the end of the year and yet most Americans have never heard of it. It is poised to repeat the mistakes of NAFTA (including too much corporate power--including letting foreign corporations skip US courts and challenge our democratically made laws in private tribunals; easing the way for offshoring more jobs; reducing worker bargaining power; giving further advantages to big biz over SMEs; restricting the use of Buy American policies) and possibly making more mistakes (putting more limits on allowable banking regulations, promoting overfishing, and making prescription drugs more expensive).

&feature=share&list=UU-vTWiQTFAG6Cvwsg6lk2iQ

We need to spread the word about corporate-driven trade agreements impact every aspect of our economy!

[antigop]

1. we also need to spread that word that Hillary played a "leading part" according to Business Week

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=67554

[OrwellwasRight]

2. As did many Ds

USTR Froman keeps going around saying this is Obama's top trade priority. And I doubt Kerry will be any less enthusiastic for it than Clinton was. He's voted for just about every free trade agreement that's ever come before him -- just like the vast majority of Democratic and Republican Senators. I don't understand the focus on laying the blame instead of taking action change the apparent course of the Administration on this. Can you explain?

[antigop]

3. because people need to know who is responsible for this sh*t nt

[OrwellwasRight]

4. People need to *ACT* on this sh$t

Not sit around and debate who's the worst Democrat. We don't have time for that, and I would never condone navel gazing while there is work to be done educating and mobilizing people about the TPP.

[antigop]

5. people need to know who is responsible. nt

[OrwellwasRight]

6. People need to ACT.

As Martin Luther King, Jr., said, complacency is just as much to blame as hate. Likewise, those who are complacent about the TPP and refuse to do anything about it will share the blame when it comes to pass. And then maybe others will sit around and debate whether it is helpful to blame you, who refused to take any action, or whether they need to get started on a repeal the TPP campaign. And I'll still be here, arguing that energy used to say one Democrat is more to blame than another is energy better used to fight the battle at hand.

[antigop]

7. and people need to know who is responsible so they can ACT -- make sure

those responsible are held accountable.

[OrwellwasRight]

8. Nope, they need to know what the TPP is and who they should contact now.

They don't need to hate Hilary Clinton to stand up for fair trade. I don't care if they blame George W. Bush (the idea started in his administration) or Obama (he picked up the ball and ran with it) or Hillary Clinton (she supported it). I do care that they sign the petition at:

http://aflcio.org/fair-tpp

http://act.aflcio.org/c/18/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=7025

the petition goes to the trade ministers in each TPP country. HRC is no longer in the Administration and contacting her would do ZERO good.

[antigop]

9. Nope. They need to know who is responsible so they can ACT by holding those responsible

accountable.

We want to stop this sh#t from happening again.

If you don't know who is responsible, you can't keep it from happening again.

Those responsible may run for office again -- or they may be appointed to some position in the future.

[OrwellwasRight]

10. You have taken no actions.

And you propose none. You refuse to do anything constructive because the petition in question doesn't "blame" Hillary Clinton. How about taking action NOW so the TPP doesn't become a corporate rights agreement? Why wait for "next time"? And what will you do then? More "bold" posts without accompanying action? I can hardly wait.

[antigop]

11. and how do you know that I "have taken no actions"?

I most certainly have done something "constructive".

[OrwellwasRight]

12. Yes, posting about how we should be more afraid of Hillary Clinton

than the TPP is "constructive." Keep telling yourself that as jobs keep flowing offshore.

[antigop]

13. Keep telling yourself that we shouldn't hold those responsible accountable.

Last edited Mon Sep 2, 2013, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

You have no idea what "actions" I have taken to stop the TPP and, more importantly, fast track.

[OrwellwasRight]

14. I have never said anything about not holding people accountable.

But:

a) there is nothing to hold anyone accountable for -- the TPP is not over. We still have time to act, and your misguided and pointless blamestorming pretends otherwise and does nothing to fix the TPP.

b) how is getting in a fight with me on DU holding Hillary Clinton "accountable"? I'm sure she is quaking in her boots about all the "accountability" she will have to take. Um, no. she wasn't even an elected official. The only people we can truly hold "accountable" are those who can choose not to re-elect when they enact and implement bad, corporate-centered trade policy. And I don't see anything in your posts that points to a campaign to do that.

c) Fast track is not more important than the underlying trade policy. It is a means to an end. If the trade agreements were good, then Fast Track wouldn't be blamed. And there has not been a trade agreement since 2005 where the vote was even close and where it even mattered that Fast Track was in place. they all would have passed anyway.

d) if you have taken actions, or have ideas for actions, or even understand what "actions" are, then say so? Otherwise, keep flinging pointless criticism to people who aren't even public servants anymore and putting words in my mouth. Cuz those are great uses of time. Super productive.

PS: "pointing the finger" ≠ "holding someone accountable." Those two things are VERY different. A lot of people pointed the finger at Dick Cheney over the Iraq War. No one held him accountable.

[antigop]

15. excuse me? You're the one who keeps trying to pick a fight. I told you I've taken "actions". nt

[OrwellwasRight]

16. Yes, I can see that you have.

Anti-Hillary posts are super productive in fighting for a better TPP. Thank you for your excellent work.

[antigop]

17. yes, people need to know who is responsible for this sh#t. How many times do I have to tell you

that I have taken "actions" to stop the TPP, and more importantly, fast track?

[OrwellwasRight]

18. Yes, you have taken so many "actions." Clearly.

Can't be bothered to sign one damn petition, but a total activist. Yes, I get it. As I said, I can only aspire to be as great an activist as you.

And if people "need to know who is responsible for this sh#t," perhaps they should know several other things, like:

1) this sh#t isn't over; there is still time to impact it. And they can do that by learning about the TPP (not Hillary Clinton) and signing the petition at the end of the video above

2) Hillary Clinton isn't solely responsible for Obama's trade policy; and anyone who says she is either doesn't understand trade policy or has an agenda.

So I don't care what you think or anyone thinks about Hillary, but as I said, blamestorming on DU is a complete and total waste of time.

Taking action (like joining the TPP Twitterstorm, signing the petition, reposting the video and teaching new people about the TPP, visiting a Congressional office) will have much more of an impact than your blamestorming, which is getting really old.

[antigop]

19. And what makes you think I haven't done any of those? I've told you several times now that I have

"taken action".

[OrwellwasRight]

20. Yes, you have. I keep agreeing that yes, you keep repeating yourself.

And yet you can't do something simple like sign this petition since it's not anti-Hillary. You provide no evidence for your claims of activism. So no, I don't find them credible. It's your right to post no evidence. And it's my right to find you unconvincing. You seem to care about nothing but being anti-Hillary. I'm sorry, you lost me on your first post. Repetition has done nothing to bolster your argument.

[antigop]

21. And you just keep repeating yourself that I haven't "taken action" -- I have. nt

[OrwellwasRight]

22. Yes, because I don't believe you have. I have made that clear.

You have provided no evidence that you have taken action so my opinion won't change as a result of your repeated claims. I am entitled not to believe you just as you are entitled to think that blamestorming is more productive than actually signing the petition.

[antigop]

23. I really don't care what you think. I've told you I've taken actions to stop the TPP. nt

[OrwellwasRight]

24. If you don't care,

why do you keep responding? I don't care if you don't care.

[antigop]

26. keep kicking the thread...more people are reading the article! THANKS!

4356 views! WOOHOO!

[OrwellwasRight]

27. Why wouldn't I kick my own thread?

How do you think this is some kind of coup for you? I STARTED the thread. Helllooooooo.

[antigop]

28. and people link to the Business Week article from post #1 in the thread. Got it?

nt

[OrwellwasRight]

29. What's with "got it?"

It's somewhat repetitive. And I'm not the one in this conversation who has misunderstood anything. Um . . . got it?

[antigop]

30. Because you don't seem to understand how posts get views. Got it? nt

[OrwellwasRight]

33. I do understand and I seem to understand.

I also think no one is interested in your silly little article, got it? Am I being clear enough? Or should I say it again?

[antigop]

34. 4377 views! WOOHOO! Nope, no one cares about it. nt

[OrwellwasRight]

37. Wow.

I think I will start using very tiny words because the world makes sense to me. You must assume all people have a hard of a time as you do understanding things. No, I "got it," I just think your posts are lame. Got it?

[OrwellwasRight]

31. They can. But you assume they are. Got it?

It's pretty narcissistic to assume they do. But feel free. I don't care if they link to your irrelevant article. I care if they sign the petition. So your remarks only serve to drive people to the petition you refuse to sign. Watch out, you might become an accidental activist.

[antigop]

32. Watch out...your thread might lead someone to read that disastrous Business Week article! nt

[OrwellwasRight]

35. How many times do I have to say I don't care? Which word is confusing to you?

Or maybe it's the fact that they are organized into sentences that's confusing for you. I'll slow down.

I. don't. care. about. your. irrelevant. article.
I. think. you. are. a narcissist. to think. that. people. click. on this. thread. to. read. your. article.
If. you. want. people. to. click. to read. your posts. you. might. want. to. start. your. own. thread. Or. can. I point. you. to. the. welcome. and. help. section. so. you. can. learn. to. do that?

[antigop]

36. Well, there are people who DO care about the article. People responded to it. nt

[OrwellwasRight]

38. Yay!

Did that just make your day? How awesome for you! You must be so proud.

[antigop]

39. Have a good evening! nt

[OrwellwasRight]

40. Don't worry, I already have.

Thank you.

[lunasun]

41. where was JQ Public years ago on this??

DWTS or sleeping??!!! This is a big screw and I know you
have posted earlier to alarm folks here

Perhaps just the finishing touches by now on TPP I'd imagine ?
This goes back years now with no big public push back and Congress do nothings from past petitions
I wish I felt anything could be done at this date but I will not give up and will sign the petition
Secret talks are not transparency
Some protests via Occupies occurred as with trade groups
WIKILEAKS
Public Citizen I know for a long time

and Citizens Trade Campaign alerted for example that leaked texts “reveal that the Obama administration has reversed reforms designed to enhance access to affordable medicines made during the George W. Bush administration and is instead demanding new rights for pharmaceutical firms to challenge pricing and other drug formulary policies used by many developed countries to keep down prices.” in 2011
Affects the health and welfare of billions of people worldwide, also environment laws and corporate tribunals over state all goes beyond trade and jobs

Oh and it will not just be Americans getting screwed and places like Vietnam winning it all in cheap labor
but rest assured a certain sector or 200 will profit imo

Look how the Columbian trade law 2012 (or even Mexico post NAFTA)
http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2013/08/colombia-uprising-is-this-what-free-trade-looks-like.html

now is hurting the people there
from the trade law and then the government's law in concert
Some of them type laws may be in our future ...
* Prohibition of the production, marketing and consumption of panela, a semi-refined sugar that is a Colombian staple (Resolutions 002546 of 2004 and 0779 of 2006)
* Prohibition of the sale of raw milk (Decree 2838 of 2006)
* Limits on the ability of small-scale farmers to raise and slaughter cattle (Decree 1500 of 2007)
* Prohibition of the production and marketing of heritage-breed chickens (Resolution 000957 of 2008)
* Controls on the production, use and marketing of all seeds in the country (Resolution 970 of 2010)
* Expansion of intellectual property rights to include seeds (Law 1518 of 2012).

*......oops too late some of those laws already here in US

[OrwellwasRight]

42. I feel the same.

I have been trying to raise the alarm, but many groups have (Public Citizen, Friends of the Earth, AFL-CIO, Sierra Club, etc.) -- it's just that the mainstream media isn't helping, and I guess it's "too complicated" for folks to get fired up about at this point -- not sure. I know NAFTA was not under the radar like this.

It is gaining more traction in Malaysia than here, at least that helps.

Ugh! Please do what you can to share the video and raise the alarm.