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Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:29 AM

A six year old boy accused me of grabbing him by the neck and choking him

Last edited Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

when I was a substitute teacher for his class last month.

My agency suspended me and I was investigated for "misconduct", until yesterday when I was interviewed.

On the day of my assignment, I was told before the class came in that there two boys were "problems" (by the principal, by the "money teacher", and by the nurse). And I vowed to stay on the other side of the room all day in that case. And I did.

They were disruptive, destructive, insolent, and more. All I could do was manage the rest of the class.

More problems: the class went to recess before lunch and these boys refused to climb off the jungle gym and come in. I had to send security out to get them into the building. At dismissal, they "locked" themselves into the coat closet in the back. I got the door opened 2 inches and they slammed the door shut on my hand, crushing my fingers.

So long story short, I was assaulted and I was the one accused of "misconduct".

The investigation found not one student to corroborate the accusation; the principal and teachers gave me stellar reports, and . . . . I had the prescience to leave behind a detailed report that specifically documented all the problems these boys caused that day.

Apparently the boy told his mother who reported the allegation to the principal who had no choice but to report this to the state.

While I have been exonerated, I faced losing more than a few more years of substitute teaching. I risked losing my teaching license and possible criminal prosecution/conviction. The charges could have included attempted murder.

I can't get over a six year old (and if not him, then his mother) could make such an accusation.

In any case, I don't have the stomach to return to teaching if I'm going to wonder which kid is going to report abuse when I was merely doing my job.

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Reply A six year old boy accused me of grabbing him by the neck and choking him (Original post)
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 OP
KarenS Feb 2022 #1
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #2
dixiechiken1 Feb 2022 #3
TygrBright Feb 2022 #61
FoxNewsSucks Feb 2022 #4
Texin Feb 2022 #15
FoxNewsSucks Feb 2022 #58
I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2022 #82
Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #5
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #6
Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #7
Rebl2 Feb 2022 #19
OldBaldy1701E Feb 2022 #39
Operaweeble Feb 2022 #44
LiberalFighter Feb 2022 #60
Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #63
LiberalFighter Feb 2022 #70
wnylib Feb 2022 #84
Evolve Dammit Feb 2022 #79
eppur_se_muova Feb 2022 #91
NellieStarbuck Feb 2022 #8
arlyellowdog Feb 2022 #41
GB_RN Feb 2022 #9
Samrob Feb 2022 #10
snpsmom Feb 2022 #32
Samrob Feb 2022 #78
Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #34
snpsmom Feb 2022 #36
Rabrrrrrr Feb 2022 #87
Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #89
keithbvadu2 Feb 2022 #77
KS Toronado Feb 2022 #11
rsdsharp Feb 2022 #66
Dan Feb 2022 #12
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #13
ShazzieB Feb 2022 #14
Lonestarblue Feb 2022 #16
arlyellowdog Feb 2022 #31
whathehell Feb 2022 #72
barbtries Feb 2022 #54
paleotn Feb 2022 #17
JohnnyRingo Feb 2022 #18
TNNurse Feb 2022 #20
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #22
TNNurse Feb 2022 #25
JudyM Feb 2022 #47
Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #35
dickthegrouch Feb 2022 #65
c-rational Feb 2022 #21
TexLaProgressive Feb 2022 #23
SouthernDem4ever Feb 2022 #24
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #26
SouthernDem4ever Feb 2022 #28
kimbutgar Feb 2022 #27
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #29
PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2022 #30
BadgerMom Feb 2022 #56
maddiemom Feb 2022 #76
arlyellowdog Feb 2022 #33
jg10003 Feb 2022 #37
XanaDUer2 Feb 2022 #38
Vinca Feb 2022 #40
LT Barclay Feb 2022 #42
MacKasey Feb 2022 #43
TeamProg Feb 2022 #45
SouthernDem4ever Feb 2022 #67
llmart Feb 2022 #46
TheBlackAdder Feb 2022 #48
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #49
Quakerfriend Feb 2022 #50
AnotherMother4Peace Feb 2022 #51
barbtries Feb 2022 #52
Martin68 Feb 2022 #53
perdita9 Feb 2022 #55
Karadeniz Feb 2022 #57
Lunabell Feb 2022 #59
SWBTATTReg Feb 2022 #62
I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2022 #83
Steven Maurer Feb 2022 #64
Joinfortmill Feb 2022 #68
LogicFirst Feb 2022 #69
BigmanPigman Feb 2022 #71
lkinwi Feb 2022 #73
raccoon Feb 2022 #74
questionseverything Feb 2022 #75
Evolve Dammit Feb 2022 #80
Skittles Feb 2022 #81
BradAllison Feb 2022 #85
Doodley Feb 2022 #86
brewens Feb 2022 #88
no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #90

Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:40 AM

1. what a terrible and sad story,,,,

just sending some ((hugs))

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Response to KarenS (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:45 AM

2. You know what made it worse?

I didn't know at all what I had allegedly done wrong until yesterday.

For three weeks, I agonized over what my accusation was.

I figured the kid got a bruise or scratch on the playground and conveniently ascribed it to me.

I was truly shocked when my allegation was revealed.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:52 AM

3. Jesus, that's pretty young to be that evil...

My in-laws were teachers, now retired. They were glad to get out when they did. They said so many of the kids were just getting worse & worse, becoming more emboldened and just being completely disruptive. There was nothing they could do about it for fear of the same kind of unwarranted blowback you faced. Nobody wins - the kids who are there to learn get overlooked because the "bad seeds" suck all the oxygen out of the room. That's got to be so frustrating for everyone involved. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

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Response to dixiechiken1 (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:51 PM

61. Kids don't get that way in a vacuum.

It's not always entirely the parents' responsibility (especially in the case of economically marginalized single parents who face serious time deficits for parenting due to working multiple jobs and dealing with impossible stresses). But often parents DO play a role, consciously or unconsciously, by demonstrating their own antisocial, oppositional, passive-aggressive, and/or blame-shifting dysfunctions as "clever" ways to handle those they are resentful of or angry at.

That sensibility in the home and/or among adults closest to them, combined with a large dose of our culture's current admiration for "strength" in the form of being able to manipulate or coerce other people, is a pretty strong influence.

Add that to the endemic terror among males suffering the slow-motion dissolution of their patriarchy-based privilege who provide many of the role models for youngsters (especially but not exclusively boys), which manifests in belligerence and machismo-oriented acting out, and why are we surprised so many of today's youngsters are finding toxic behavior patterns a "natural" response?

sadly,
Bright

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:02 AM

4. I agree w/ post 3

A kid that age doesn't come up with that on his own. Even a rotten brat of a kid.

Sounds like the mother is a real nasty Karen in every aspect of her life.

Too many people like that, and they shouldn't be allowed to breed. A few more years of learning from mama, and that kid will become just as bad.

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Response to FoxNewsSucks (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:00 AM

15. Well, apparently a "kid that age" could come up w something like that.

Look at the havoc caused by the two juvenile delinquents and all just in one day in that teacher's life! Imagine what their home environment must be like. What kind of parents allow children that age to act out like that?

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Response to Texin (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:34 PM

58. Lousy parents. That's what kind.

And that was my point. The kid didn't come up with that all alone. Either the mother taught that behavior by example, or by outright telling the kid to lie.

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Response to FoxNewsSucks (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:55 PM

82. I agree

Kens and karens need swift consequences to thier bad behavior.
When does the tolerance for intolerable behavior stop?

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:24 AM

5. I was not a teacher, but I worked in many schools for 20 years in a different capacity.

I had to maintain very close relationships with parents due to the nature of my work. I LOVED my job, right up until the end when we went remote and the parents became involved in every aspect of schooling.

99% of the parents were too wonderful to describe.

1% were vindictive crazy people who were out to get anyone they could. That 1%, I realized one day, had the power to ruin my reputation, make me lose my professional license, and fuck up my retirement.

I lasted 6 months dealing with one such parent, then decided to retire. The one who replaced me lasted 2 months before refusing to deal with the parent any more, and the one came next lasted 3 months. Each of them were told they had to continue to work with the parent, that it was the law, etc. Each documented the abuse and threats of violence and ruin and risked censure by refusing again. I don't know where it stands now.

I LOVED my career. It was a constant source of joy for me. Because of parents like this and the ridiculous amounts of power they have to dictate their ignorant wishes to trained professionals, I wouldn't do it again or advise anyone else to do it again, for any amount of money.

There is NO real protection for those who work with children in schools.



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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:28 AM

6. I'm so sorry that you went through that.

Those kind of parents do have an agenda and it isn't education.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:29 AM

7. You and I dodged a bullet. But I feel for you. It makes you loath the thing you used to love.

And there is grief in that.

Make sure you honor that. They have put you through something. Take care of yourself.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:11 PM

39. HEAR HEAR!

I was in the same boat, except it was a staff member who decided to hate me. He tried to twist everything I did and went out and lied to the boss, to the board, to the police, and to DCS (Dept. of Child Services). Once the word got out, I was done. And get this... the caseworker from DCS who I interviewed with (and who had ample evidence as well as testimony from the rest of the faculty there that the guy lied out of his ass) had the brass to tell me that I was mistaken when I pointed out that, despite the exoneration, the damage was done. She disagreed and said that her report would resolve the matter. Then, she informed me that they would be keeping a file on this incident. I basically exclaimed, "Like I said, eh?" and she got mad at me.

I loved working at the school. I loved the kids, and I loved the majority of the faculty. But, it is not worth it to return to that work. Of course, word got out anyway, and as I said, the damage was done. Some parents actually discussed the matter with the boss, who defended me even as I could see he was actually defending the school. I was finally fired (long story short, boss was driven to extreme breakdown by a family of asshats over a matter that was witnessed by 40 students and five teachers as well as being recorded on the playground monitors. It did not matter, though, they went after him as if he had fired a pistol at their precious child. He finally got paranoid and decided that I was not 'loyal' to him. I was loyal to the school, faculty and staff come and go) and even then that bullshit came back to haunt me whenever I tried to find work in the field. Since no one would admit that the file sitting in the DCS office played any part (of course it did), I cannot sue the shit out of him or DCS for anything. SO, they get to ruin my reputation and deny me my third career attempt before I really got very far. So, fuck'em.

So to summarize, I agree completely. No protection means why bother trying to work in a field where any little whisper could ruin your entire life, not just your career. It is a sad example of just how deeply the rethug agenda of disrupting anything that detracts from the real 'Big Lie'. I sympathize with everyone who has posted on here about this matter. Our education system is in the dumps and this is why it will not get better until the entire thing is overhauled.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:36 PM

44. Yep. This happened to me as well.

My incident occurred in my sixteenth year of teaching. Suffice to say, if a parent or small group of parents decides to go after a teacher, it is probably a foregone conclusion that the teacher is toast. Yes, it is important to listen to parents, but not to the detriment of the public school system.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:45 PM

60. If isn't being done. The school and teachers assn need to educate teachers how to protect themselves

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #60)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 03:32 PM

63. The school and teacher's assn need to back teachers and staff once in a while when

parents are being vicious or ridiculous.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 06:28 PM

70. Agreed. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to recognize false reporting.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 01:59 AM

84. Maybe we need to take unmanageable kids

out of regular classrooms and place them in separate schools, not just in-school detention.

Schools for difficult students used to be called "detention schools" when I was a kid.

Mild, occasional behavior problems were handled between the regular school, the principle, parents, and teacher, maybe also the school psychologist.

But chronically, seriously unamanageable kids were expelled and placed in a school with staff trained for teaching students with behavioral problems. I have heard that those schools were sometimes abusive toward students sent to them, which might be why they no longer exist. Or they focused solely on discipline without any real learning.

But something has to be done to make schools safe for students and faculty.

Problem students from problem families definitely need help, but they are not getting help by letting them control classrooms, teachers, and schools while other students suffer the consequences.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:15 PM

79. Lowest common denominator. That's what drags us all down. I am sorry to hear, but glad you got out.

It's the same assholes who are driving ER nurses out as well as teachers. They are brainwashed, self-righteous and angry ingrates who actually think they are helping their kids by being mindlessly aggressive. No respect, just aggression. And the admin and law enforcement defends it. BS.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 06:56 PM

91. There needs to be a way to "fire" parents -- or at least tell them to find a private school.

Let them pay for the problems their child is causing.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:37 AM

8. These stories make my blood run cold.

My youngest has just embarked on a teaching career, a middle school Spanish teacher. She is only 23 and looks younger, gets asked for a hall pass sometimes. She comes home nearly in tears some days, has a group of boys who cause trouble in class, has been called a bitch. This she does with a master's degree and pay far lower than she is worth. I hope she can make it.

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Response to NellieStarbuck (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:17 PM

41. From teachers' Mom

The 1st year is hell most years. New teachers are so young they can still be intimidated by students. All first year teachers cry and all you can do is be a sounding board. The problem is my teacher kids say no other year in their decades long experience has been has horrible as this year. Kids are told they do not need to show respect for teachers, but teachers must show the students total respect. Hopefully, your daughter can get a good mentor and support from fellow teachers. Tell her to try to fly under to radar and survive.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:38 AM

9. Jesus...

My grandmothers were both teachers, my mom a high school vocational counselor and my dad was a med school professor. I'd NEVER have even thought of doing anything like that to a teacher, much less a sub.

If my son was a behavioral problem, the problem is with him - and/or with me...not the teacher.

I'd never make an accusation like that against a teacher without corresponding physical evidence, and there would be, IF it happened.

Sounds like the parent who made the accusation is a total dick.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:42 AM

10. Camera in classrooms and parents in court. Maybe that will stop these incidents? nt

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Response to Samrob (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:58 AM

32. I teach, and cameras in classrooms

are a scary thought.

Imagine the chilling effect on students who are victims of abusive homes. Imagine the invasion of privacy if your child is recorded every minute of every day in class.
Not to mention teachers who are already being micromanaged and de-professionalized could now be scrutinized for every word that came out of their mouths.

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Response to snpsmom (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:06 PM

78. You are right. Wasn't thinking clearly. I'll settle for parents in court. nt

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Response to Samrob (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:00 PM

34. Or maybe make it worse.

"You hate my child. You call on him less than that other child."

"You spent 10 minutes outside of camera range. What were you doing?"

"How dare you speak harshly to my angel?"

"You are not teaching right. I demand that you no longer use worksheets. You should be tailoring every lesson to every child. I'm reporting you."

"When you pulled my Johnny off that other child he was choking, you left a mark. I'm suing!"

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 07:25 AM

87. or the gossip potential:

"Did you hear Susie say her dad drinks too much? I knew it!"

"I can't believe that Nathan has come to school in the same shirt and pants for four days in a row... stupid poor people."

"Why does Bathsheba always look so tired, and why is her hair always such a mess?"

"I see the teacher has brought in a bag of sandwiches for Alex to take home again - that's like ten times in the last three weeks. Is she trying to groom the boy? We need to call the principal!"

"Wow, Aiden just told the teacher he's got a cousin in jail and his family is going to see him, so he'll be gone on Friday."

or perhaps even something like "Max just handed the teacher a note that his family is taking vacation april 4-20.We can break into their house then!"

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Response to Rabrrrrrr (Reply #87)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 08:00 AM

89. Or what snpsmom pointed out upthread: for some kids being abused at home, school

is a haven. This gives their abusers uninterrupted access to them, and more fodder for abuse. Takes away their only respite.

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Response to Samrob (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 08:57 PM

77. Repubs want cameras in classrooms but not to protect teachers.

Repubs want cameras in classrooms but not to protect teachers.

... to monitor them for 'wrong' political thinking.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:43 AM

11. Back when I was in grade school ('57-'65)

Every teacher had a paddle hanging next to the blackboard, few times I seen it used sure kept everyone
else from doing stupid stuff. Plus those who experienced the paddle learned how to behave.

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 03:41 PM

66. I was just behind you -- 59-66 -- K through 6.

Only one our our teachers had a paddle; in fact, she had two. She called them the “boards of education.” My brother (8 years older) and sister (4 years older) had proceeded me in her 4th grade class, and scared the hell out of me with their (largely) fanciful stories.

She did have paddles, and she did use them, but she was a helluva teacher. She was nearing retirement, and the end of a 40 teaching career. She was part of that generation of women who largely had two choices if they wanted a professional career; nursing or teaching. That particular barrier meant that the best and brightest women found their way into teaching.

She required discipline in her class, and all of the parents backed her. If she paddled you in school, you were going to get paddled again when you got home (I didn’t — at school, I mean). For all of this, she was beloved. Her last year was the year I was in fifth grade. The next year she came back to substitute teach our sixth grade class. She received a standing ovation when she walked into the room.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:46 AM

12. I think that the parents were planning to sue the school, and you, you were just

Collateral damage.

Sad, but I think that eventually those parents will accomplish what they wished for - no public education.

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Response to Dan (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:48 AM

13. I agree with you.

Make a complaint that survives a motion for dismissal and then take a settlement to keep the controversy quiet.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:55 AM

14. I definitely suspect some coaching took place here.

A six year old boy accused me of grabbing him by the neck and choking him


That's just a very weird thing for a little kid to come up with. It's not how 6 year olds talk.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:03 AM

16. Far too many conservative parents are teaching their children that they are privileged.

These are the kids who grow up to be bullies. If you see your parents bullying other, you’re more likely to be a bully. I imagine these are the same parents who are demanding that their children not be forced to learn any history that might contradict their white supremacy. We certainly have a bunch of whacked-out people in this country. I’m glad I’m retired. I don’t have the patience anymore to deal with people like this in the workplace.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:58 AM

31. Liberal parents also, sad to say

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Response to arlyellowdog (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 06:57 PM

72. Yes.I believe so. n/t

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:56 PM

54. for four years

the worst bully in the land held the highest office. a role model.

shit rolls downhill. republicans - fuck 'em all

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:09 AM

17. I'd bet dollars to donuts the parents are trumpers.

Anyone want that action?

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:09 AM

18. I see this as one of the most heinous offenses.

Because it demeans the legitimate claims of others.

It's like the minor league of those who accuse someone of rape when there was none.
The person who accuses an African American of a crime when there is no crime.
The claims of someone who identifies the innocent of police brutality.

This is the kind of person these delinquents will become without intervention. These kinds of people need punished beyond the norm.

Sorry you were victimized. You deserve compensation for the attempted attack on your character.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:18 AM

20. If not a bodycam, a phone in your pocket to record such behavior

seems to be the only safe defense. It should not be shared online but in the school office with parents present.

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:22 AM

22. 1. I had no idea that the kid was going to make this accusation while I was there.

It was reported days after the assignment.

2. I couldn't have anticipated being accused that day. I just considered it a "rough day" and that's why I didn't record anything.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:32 AM

25. I was thinking of going forward by learning from your experience.

Absolutely no criticism of your behavior.

As a retired hospital RN, I think maybe nurses should consider being able to record the out of control behavior of family members especially. Actually anyone who has to interact with the public...waitresses, store clerks, the list is long, might benefit.

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:00 PM

47. Nurses have had it so tough with Covid patients and their families: bad behavior as with 6 year olds

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:02 PM

35. This is what teaching has come to.

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 03:35 PM

65. Make certain that recording is legal

At least in California recording requires active consent of all parties.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:18 AM

21. So sorry you had to deal with this. May I suggest you hold on any final decision. Discuss this

with the school administrators or others you trust, and remember that the majority of your students appreciate you.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:23 AM

23. I feel your pain.

I am not a teacher in regular schools, but have about 15 years in religious education of just barely teenagers. My last year, I was confronted by the department head (grandmother of one problem child) about my mistreatment of the grandson and his cohort in crime. These two boys had a record in both the church and public school going back to kindergarten. They delighted in disrupting the class, so that nothing was accomplished.

Grandma, said, "How about I teach a class with you?" I had had enough, "Here's my lesson plans and books, why don't you teach them?" And I quit. That was 3 years ago, and I miss it. The present class is wonderful by all reports and has a very good teacher. I don't feel so badly since they are in good hands. You know this age group can be a handful at best, but with a pair of purposeful disruptive, it is nearly impossible.

I wonder about the administration turning a blind eye to the histories of these two, who injured you and your reputation. It's like they took the path of least resistance, rather than facing the problem that should've been dealt with years ago.

My Dad a few years out of the battlefields of WW II was teaching a 6 grade class. They gave the male teacher, combat vet, all the trouble makers who were a year from aging out at 16. They thought it great fun to torment their teachers. One day, one of these, threatened Dad with a knife. He took it away from the thug, with that 1,000 mile glare in his eyes, stepped on the blade and snapped it. He handed it back calmly saying, "You or your friend try that again, it won't go well." Fortunately it wasn't witnessed by adults and the those who saw it were impressed. He had no more trouble with that lot. Except he was sad, that one he saw improving turned to heroin.

Good teachers are heroes. I hope you don't give it up. I think if that one kid had gone on to high school, Dad would've continued teaching.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:29 AM

24. It's sad that it will take 2 or more adults in the room at school

If they had seen other adults they have been more reluctant to lie. When my son was in early elementary school, if he had trouble with other kids in his class that he could not handle, I would go to class and sit with them all for a day, paying particular attention to the trouble makers.. That usually stopped the issues which to me meant they needed more attention from their parents.

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Response to SouthernDem4ever (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:33 AM

26. As a corollary, you know what scared me the most?

No adults, but getting just one other kid in the classroom who was either a playground BFF or scared of the accuser to corroborate the allegation.

I could have been arrested, tried, perhaps convicted of aggravated assault and/or attempted murder of a six year old.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:37 AM

28. Exactly. I am a proponent of classroom cameras or 2 adults

Some kids just aren't trustworthy and will say anything for attention or control.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:33 AM

27. I'm a substitute teacher also had a problem boy who said I hit him

I never touched him but stood in front of him to keep him from hitting another boy. He was a bully towards kids all day and they were afraid of him. The teacher told me if he became disruptive to give him his work in the hallway. Anyway he told his mother I hit him. The principal investigated and the kids in the classroom confirmed that I only stood in front of him. Turns out he was a fourth grader and this was his third transfer to a new school and that he had accused other teachers at his previous schools. I got exonerated.

That said, fight this. There are so many children like those boys that lie like that.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:42 AM

29. The State cleared me.

I don't know what else I can do. I probably have the option of returning to substitute teaching, but why?

Next time, I may not be so lucky and I'll have a criminal trial to deal with.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 11:53 AM

30. And to think that the regular teacher puts up with that behavior

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:26 PM

56. I have been a substitute. I have taught in my own classroom for many years.

There is no comparison, in my experience. I realize my experience is now a couple of decades old, decades that saw conditions for education professionals deteriorate, but classroom teachers have a number of things on their side that subs do not. First, the administration is more invested in them in that they have been through more rigorous interviews and credentialing. They have more faculty support because they are part of the faculty and they all deal with the same community, administration, parents and students. Full time classroom teachers also benefit from the goodwill of the students, current and former. A well thought of teacher with years of experience who has parents and younger siblings clamoring to be assigned to that instructor’s class has far fewer issues. When you have a class for a full year, you have rules in place that in the best circumstances are decided upon in the first few days of classes by the teacher and students. They have buy-in. The bullies don’t get as far when the entire group of people in that room have made the rules the troublemakers are breaking. All of that is to say I have immense respect for substitutes. They are so very necessary to the full time teacher. Many times a full time teacher will request a particular sub with whom they try to work so each knows the other’s ways and the makeup of various classes. The sub knows the class rules which are best posted somewhere.

These are all ideal circumstances though. As a sub, I was terrified every time I stepped into a classroom with which I was unfamiliar. The phone rang early. The job was described. It could be AP physics in a stable school or a special ed class with an uber-competent aide and few students. It could be a pe, choir, drama, band or shop class, subjects in which I have little to no knowledge. It could be a class in which the full time teacher had little control him- or herself and which became chaotic regularly even with the regular instructor. The kids could be terrific or ready to target the sub.

Substitute teachers get paid less than teachers, already not a well-paid group. Yet they face immense challenges and receive little respect, sometimes not even from the full time staff. They deserve SO much better.

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Response to BadgerMom (Reply #56)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 08:11 PM

76. I, too, have been both a full-time teacher and a sub.

I went back to sub, after having been full time and then staying home for some years to raise a family. I was one of a couple of subsi in the area at the time who were often requested' (once having been called from one district while subbing at another). i was also willing to go into classrooms out of my own fields (English and reading specialist}, which many inexperienced teachers were not, at the time. BELIEVE ME, it is much easier to sub, once you've been a "regular" teacher. However, I must confess to going into new situations MUCH MEANER than I really was as a regular teacher. I agree completely with what you posted. So true! My one complaint: After two weeks for the same teacher , you were paid MORE as a "long term" sub. If you were going in for more than two weeks unexpectedly for the same teacher, most districts would put you in for ANOTHER teacher and call a new sub for the teacher you'd been covering. Disrupting for the students, as well maddening for you.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:00 PM

33. It's really really really really rough this year

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Response to jg10003 (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:06 PM

38. That was my thought

For all the fear and anguish the teacher went through.

No one should be able to make a false allegation this serious without accountability.

To the op

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:15 PM

40. OMG - what a horrible story. No wonder there's a shortage of teachers.

You have to wonder what the hell kind of family those kids come from.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:18 PM

42. Feeling for you, we adopted 3 from the foster system and while the oldest is the worst,

They’ve all done similar things and we have them in our home.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:30 PM

43. The school knows these are problem children

There should be cameras in class room to provide evidence.

If there are 2 kids working together causing problems, separate them in different class rooms

Have teachers aides in those class rooms

Just telling subs to watch out for the problem child is not enough

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:38 PM

45. Some Psychiatrists say you can see a child's future by the time they're five yrs old.. This kid is

heading for a life of poverty and crime in dirt-bag central or in prison for armed robbery or fraud - if he's even clever enough to try.


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Response to TeamProg (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 04:05 PM

67. or it might earn him a spot in the repuglican party

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 12:41 PM

46. Probably some really bad parenting in that household.

A child doesn't become that mean and learn how to lie in a few short years prior to going to school. They're barely out of toddlerhood.

I was a substitute teacher for one year - sometimes in the elementary school, sometimes in middle school or high school - wherever I was needed. The other women in my substitute teacher training classes only wanted to do elementary school because they had children of their own that age and they didn't think they could handle high school. A friend of mine and I volunteered to take the high school classes because we had both already raised our children. Neither one of us was intimidated by older kids. I never had one problem at the high school level. I did have one class in middle school where the list of instructions left for me by the regular teacher about the students in the class was god awful. "Johnny, who sits in the front row and has the red hair has severe anger issues. Try not to set him off." WTF? "Joey is allergic to peanuts and Sarah has to make multiple trips to the bathroom, blah, blah, blah." I quit substituting once I found a full time job and swore I'd never do that again.

Bless you for even taking on this job to start with.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:08 PM

48. First issue is why the coat closet can be 'locked' from the inside. Second, it can happen anywhere.

.

Assholes can report people anytime and anywhere, in a park, on the street, at a coffee shop.

Don't live in fear that someone else will do this to you.


What you possibly could do is possibly try to file a civil suit against the parents for lost wages.
It's an unsubstantiated claim brought about by a kid with a past history of troublemaking.


Perhaps check with the school district to see how it will be closed, if they keep it as unsubstantiated,
get an attorney involved to see about changing it to unfounded.

Typically, CPS goes by substantiated, unsubstantiated (can't prove either way) or unfounded.


====


When these wacko righties want cameras in classrooms, this is the double-edged sword that can apply.

While they want to use it for parents and pervy parents to skeeve on the classroom, it also exposes their darling children to public display, so when they act like assholes all will know about it. Somebody could side record those videos, against TOS, and then 10 years later leak them out when their kids are applying to college or if they are established in a job. Then 30 years later to TMZ or the National Enquirer if they become public figures.

.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:14 PM

49. The closet doors weren't locked literally.

It's an old paneled doors built in the 1920's, very heavy and have the effect of being locked as they don't slide open and shut.

When they're closed, it takes great effort to move them sideways to open again.

Obviously it was dark inside and I worried about either or both of them poking out their eye(s) on the coat hooks which are eye level.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:27 PM

50. My god! How on earth have we gotten to this

point!?

Remember when kids could be punished by having to write “ I will treat others with respect and never tell a lie” over and over 500 times…. Is that even a thing anymore?

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:38 PM

51. I'm so sorry this happened to you. The child's parents should be held

accountable, and you should be awarded monetary damages. There needs to be protection for those that take on the tough job of teaching, especially substitutes who some kids view as fair game. I knew a wonderful kindergarten teacher who was accused of sexual abuse by a little girl in her class. After much angst and stress, an investigation showed that the allegations were false, initiated by the mother who was looking for a monetary settlement.

My son once subbed in a primary class. A little boy in the class had a 1 on 1 attendant. That person was absent that day. Well, the boy created an unteachable situation, and my son called the office several times, and eventually the boy finished out the day in the principal's office. AND my son left copious notes for the teacher.

Substitutes are often hesitant about calling the office/principal because they don't want to be viewed as unable to handle the class and student behaviors. Subbing can be a wonderful profession (with precautions).

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:49 PM

52. it's terrible.

you did everything right and still you were put through all that. I am so sorry this happened to you.

If you really love teaching, perhaps you could consider a different age range? I've never taught, but always thought that if I did, I would want to teach college level elective courses. Then all the students there would be there eager to learn something they chose to.

If not, here's to finding a different occupation that you will love.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 01:50 PM

53. I had a similar experience teaching Middle School. I was called into the principal's office to face

a student and his mother after the student lied about an interaction we had. I resigned a month later and never returned to classroom teaching.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:01 PM

55. My deepest sympathies

I left a 15 year teaching career because I didn't trust the students anymore. A few too many false accusations and one exceptionally obnoxious student who dragged me all the way through a committee hearing which she unanimously lost. I was expecting her to sue me in court but thankfully that did not happen.

Teachers get no benefit of the doubt when it comes to these accusations and too often the administration fails to back them up.

In the end, that's what drove me out--the failure of the administrators to have my back.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:26 PM

57. Kids like this, after an investigation that incriminates them, should have to be accompanied by a

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 02:39 PM

59. Wow, I am am sorry!

I am a private duty nurse and I noticed there was an unused nanny cam. I asked the parents to put it up for everyone's safety. I do not want to be accused of any impropriety.

I'm so sorry you were falsly accused of such a heinous act. They need nanny cams in classrooms.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 03:09 PM

62. It's a shame w/ these out of control students (and parents)...granted, not all of them are

bad, etc., but as a taxpayer, I'm kind of disturbed that my tax dollars are being abused by not caring parents who don't give a hoot if their kid does good or not, is a troublemaker, etc., and literally causes my tax dollars to go running out the door w/ their idiotic ways.

And ironically, so many kids and others are having such a hard time in paying for college. They want to go to college.

Why then, do we continue to support these kids and parents who are constantly dragging everybody else down? To be in a proper teaching mode, the surrounding environment should be carefree and free of distractions, not this kind of garbage and / or nonsense.

Permanently ban the parents and kids from that school system and report them to an overall state registry to (1) protect the teachers (a most precious resource otherwise you're going to lose them all); (2) get the kids who are a danger to other kids (and other people too) out of the school system and put them somewhere else. Period.

Why should the rest of society deal w/ the failures of the parents? The kids need to go elsewhere other than a school for the schools aren't normally equipped to handle such violent individuals.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #62)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 10:32 PM

83. I was relentlessly bullied

From 1st. Grade until I got a home tutor when I was 15. I asked the teacher why are bullies never kicked out of school?
Why not have a bully school where the teachers are police.

My home teacher said it was a good idea. She was so kind. For the first time I liked school. We would walk in the woods during Earth science and I pointed out all the plants I knew. Which ones you could eat and the stuff my family taught me.

When mom left the apartment we had and moved back in with her drunk abusive husband I was mortified when he was rude to her or was drunk and saying mean shit in front of her.

I suggested lets use my bedroom for class. We both sat on my bed. She noticed the bolt locks I put on my door asked why,I said him, pointed backwards to the kitchen.

When the weather was decent class was outside in the yard or the woods.

One day she saw blood running down my arm and I told her I cut it. I felt safe enough to just admit it to her. I just cant handle my life cutting helps. She just hugged me and I cried my eyes out.

A good teacher was all it took to keep me from killing myself back than because seeing her twice a week was like having the parents I never had. It was the one good thing I lived for .

After 2 years we had to quit class because I ended up in long term hospitalization for psych issues.

And I am 55 now and I still miss her.

I have nothing but respect for teachers that truly care about the good kids who get scapegoated.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 03:33 PM

64. A have a friend, a 55 year old lady school teacher, who went to jail...

...in Oregon over exactly this kind of accusation. She was convicted 10 to 2 (the 2 being the two women on the jury), in a trial presided over by a judge who later went to prison on an unrelated charge. Ever child in the class said it didn't happen, but they weren't allowed to testify because their testimony was considered unreliable, while the accusing child was.

Some prosecutors in Oregon are completely out of control, and even more than police, there are no systems in place to rein them in.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 05:16 PM

68. So sorry. What a nightmare.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 06:02 PM

69. All teachers must wear body cameras when teaching.

Sad, but true. Only a video will prove a teacher innocent.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 06:30 PM

71. I subbed 300 days in 2 years since I had to eat and pay rent.

I HATED it!!!! In one class their regular teacher instructed me to keep the report cards of the bad kids before I dismissed them. I did this and 2 boys pushed all the chairs off of the desks. I always left a detailed report (academic and behavior). I subbed at the same school the following day and their teacher came with them to apologize and they were punished. Another class passed around a note about keying my car (my dad's car actually). I took the note to the VP and they were punished.

And yes, 6 year olds are just as bad as 10 year olds. It is innate, "torment the sub". Since I am a small woman they really tried pulling shit.

My friend who teaches 1st grade in NYC was accused of hitting a student in her class. So the principal, parents and teacher all met together with the kid and it turned out that the kid "felt like she hit me with her words" and was lying. This is why I always had the student and parents at parent/teacher conferences. They rarely lie in the faces of the teacher and parent.

Always document EVERYTHING...I learned that lesson from a 4th grade teacher and I did (cover your ass). I was paid $100 a day in the 90s, now the pay is $123. Teachers' pay sucks! Now, due to Covid they have finally agreed to pay subs closer to what they should have been getting for the past 30 years. No wonder they can't keep subs and teachers. Low pay, no respect, teach to the test, no support staff, constant meetings, 10 hour days, etc...

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 07:13 PM

73. I subbed after retiring from teaching. The first few years were good.

I knew the kids and they knew me. After that, there was a definite change in behavior. A lot of disrespect and open defiance. Then Covid hit and I never went back. Smartest thing I ever did. They don’t pay subs enough for what they have to go through.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 07:39 PM

74. I'm sorry that happened. I hope you find a job you're happy in. Nt

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 07:50 PM

75. The worst part is those kids shouldn't be in the class to start with

They should be in a special class for students with behavioral problems

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:16 PM

80. Yes indeed. I had such a class and it worked.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sat Feb 19, 2022, 09:22 PM

81. any way you can dig?

I'm betting that kid has done this before.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 02:43 AM

85. These monsters should be removed from the school and placed in some program that can handle them n/m

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 06:28 AM

86. The answer is bring the parents in and give them two options. 1/ The kid is thrown out of

school. 2/ The mother has to sit in some classes to make sure her child behaves. The kid would be so humiliated that he would think twice before stepping out of line again.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Original post)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 07:43 AM

88. I was slammed up against a locker in the 8th grade, but kind of had it coming to

me. We were assholes to this new teacher. He was a big powerful dude and picked the biggest strongest kid in the class to retaliate against at least. I actually wasn't doing anything that time, but he had good reason to think it was me. If I would have told my mom, I would have been grounded for a month when she found out what was really going on.

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Response to brewens (Reply #88)

Sun Feb 20, 2022, 08:02 AM

90. Recapitulation: It was a *six year old* boy who reported me.

Don't you think that's a little absurd?

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