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Addison

(299 posts)
Mon May 20, 2013, 07:49 PM May 2013

Should Wealthier Students Get to Jump the Line For College Classes?

At one point, California State Assemblyman Das Williams was homeless, living in a Volkswagen van and getting pretty good grades at Santa Barbara City College.

“I was definitely a non-traditional student,” said the 38-year-old Democrat who now represents the 37th District, including Santa Barbara and Ventura counties, and chairs the Assembly Higher Education Committee.

“I had dropped out of high school and I was low-income” and still, he said in a recent phone interview, “it was easier for me then, than it is for kids today.”

Within “two years and a summer” Williams had taken all of the required courses and transferred from the coastal community college to U.C. Berkeley.

That has become an increasingly difficult path for students to follow as severe statewide budget cuts have lead colleges to eliminate nearly 100,000 class sections. The reduction in class offerings has caused a bottleneck for basic courses required for transfer to four-year universities, leaving students stuck for years in a wait-listed limbo.

Williams said that’s why he’s authored AB 955—a bill that would allow community colleges to offer high-demand courses over winter and summer sessions for students willing to pay higher fees.

It would more than quadruple the cost of each unit from $46 to about $200, which means most students would pay about $600 for each “extension” course. Those who qualify for the Board of Governors fee waiver would be eligible for financial aid paid for by a portion of the revenue collected from the new fees.

“I freely admit it’s not the best option, but it’s the only option at this time for students who can’t afford to wait four years to get through community college,” said Williams.

The idea to relieve overcrowding and compensate for funding cuts through two-tier course pricing has been controversial since it was first floated in a similar bill in 2011.

Jonathan Lightman, executive director of the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges, contends the fees are equivalent to privatizing public education.

“It’s an unequivocal threat to the idea of fairness and academic democracy that the community college system has held since its inception.”


Opponents say the bill establishes a fast-track system that gives an extra advantage to those with money. It makes “access to core classes dependent on students’ capacity to pay.”

. . . .

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/05/20/california-two-tier-college

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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
2. No.
Mon May 20, 2013, 08:05 PM
May 2013

The CA assembly should work to help repeal the corporate loopholes in Prop 13 (for example) so we can offer education to more students who need it. "Pay-to-play" shouldn't have a place in public education.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
3. What horseshit. Put more classes online. Lots of classes don't need teachers overseeing the
Mon May 20, 2013, 08:16 PM
May 2013

learning on a constant basis. Plenty of basic shit is pure memorization. Automate online classes where possible, use graduate student teaching assistants to oversee the basic classes and hire more teachers for the 'in demand' classes.

Making people wait longer, or charging them more, is wrong.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
5. it's community college. they don't have graduate teaching assistants. and the in-demand
Sun May 26, 2013, 05:12 AM
May 2013

courses are things like nursing and dental tech, so they're not the kind of classes that are pure memorization.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
6. Get the teaching assistants from the larger schools--an online course can originate from anywhere.
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:20 AM
May 2013

A community college may not have grad students, but the larger schools that are part of the state system will.

Plenty of basic courses are pretty much cut-and-dried...essential English, math, science classes--it's not like there are a dozen answers to a math problem.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
7. the high demand courses aren't the basic classes. and the teaching assistants from 4
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:36 AM
May 2013

year colleges have their own jobs to do.

how about just funding the classes, since you're taking tuition from students who want to take them.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
8. Yeah, but everybody has to take basic classes, and if you can shift your teaching dollars
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:42 AM
May 2013

to the high demand classes, and leave the basics to grad students overseen by fewer qualfied teachers, you can see some cost savings that way.

Funding the classes would be optimal, but we're talking about a situation where there is discussion of two tier pricing--obviously that wouldn't be under discussion if there was funding available.

I'm kicking around looking for solutions that don't give the wealthy preferential access.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
9. wealthy people don't go to community colleges. pushing more 'basic' courses to online just
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:02 AM
May 2013

gives the people who created the phoney 'problem' what they want.

the kinds of students who attend community colleges (not all, but many, and more these days) need teachers.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
10. Oh yes they do!
Sun May 26, 2013, 01:57 PM
May 2013

Not all wealthy people have smart kids, or kids who buckled down in high school. There are plenty of well-off, 'parents could afford private education' kids in the MA community college system, for the simple reason that they need an environment that is closer to two more years of high school in terms of the attention that is paid to them and the class/campus size.

The MA community college system does accommodate special needs students--those with math/reading dyslexia, etc. But a combination of student coaching and online classes isn't amiss.

You are arguing from a point that it is possible to make Porgie's pie higher. I am speaking to the situation as it stands--there's only so many assets, how can they be stretched?

Yes, wouldn't it be love-er-ly if more money could be tossed at community colleges from sea to shining sea, but realistically? Near term? I don't see that happening.

I am speaking pragmatically. Not thinking wishfully.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
11. no, you're accepting the frame of 'financial crisis'. once you do so, the only 'solution' is cost-
Sun May 26, 2013, 02:16 PM
May 2013

cutting, which leads inexorably to the policies of education deform.

but the financial crisis is self-imposed by government policy at both the federal and local level.

you are not speaking pragmatically, whatever you may think you're doing.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
12. As opposed to your solution...which is....?
Sun May 26, 2013, 02:22 PM
May 2013

Keep in mind that foot stomping isn't going to produce more money. You can't make that argument, so don't even try. It doesn't matter who "imposed" the budget--it is what it is. And don't try to characterize my comments as "anti-education" because if I had my way, I'd prioritize pre K- 16 on a national level. That said, if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

You've got to dance with the budget that brung ya...so whatchagonna do? Solve the problem with the outfit you've got on.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
14. Well, that wasn't terribly elucidative.
Sun May 26, 2013, 02:43 PM
May 2013

You aren't coming up with a plan. You're just being cryptic and hoping I'll stop asking.

Same budget, you have to deal with things as they are, not the way you want them:

What will you do?
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