Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hatrack

(59,583 posts)
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 12:20 PM Dec 2018

"The Denialists, In Other Words, Have Nothing Left" - Andrew Sullivan, New York Magazine

EDIT

I’m relieved, I suppose, that Trump officials didn’t actually suppress, censor, or doctor volume two of the Fourth National Climate Assessment. All they did was release it on the Friday after Thanksgiving, suggesting that somewhere deep in what passes for someone’s conscience in this putrid presidency, some residual shame might linger. One of the more innovative arguments of the report was even pitched to the bottom line: high projections expect to knock ten percent off U.S. GDP this century — more than two Great Recessions put together. And so the last teetering argument of the carbon polluters and their enablers — that preventing climate catastrophe will cost jobs and reduce growth — was proven void once again. Au contraire, it turns out. There have been more jobs in solar energy in the U.S. since 2015 than in oil or natural gas extraction. Maybe a decade ago, the expense of wind and solar was a major obstacle and expense for a non-carbon future. Not any more.

The denialists, in other words, have nothing left. The most striking thing about Bret Stephens’s inaugural column in the New York Times was not its banal defense of the principle of scientific skepticism, but its general lameness. Rereading it this week, it is striking how modest its claims were. They essentially came to this: “Claiming total certainty about the science traduces the spirit of science and creates openings for doubt whenever a climate claim proves wrong. Demanding abrupt and expensive changes in public policy raises fair questions about ideological intentions. Censoriously asserting one’s moral superiority and treating skeptics as imbeciles and deplorables wins few converts.”

And that’s it. But no serious scientist claims “total certainty” about the future of climate, just a range of increasingly alarming probabilities; no one is demanding “abrupt and expensive” changes in public policy, just an intensification of efforts long underway with increasingly reliable and affordable new technologies; and, yes, treating your opponents as evil morons is rarely a good political strategy and Al Gore was terribly supercilious — but, seriously, that’s the only substantive argument Stephens had or has? There’s not enough hay there for a straw ant. The same blather can be found in this week’s column by Jonah Goldberg, lamenting Max Boot’s sudden volte-face on the issue. Jonah has a point about Boot’s somewhat too instant makeover into a resistance icon (I’ve made it myself), but on the substance of climate change, what defense of the American right does Goldberg have? Zippo. He argues that “there are a lot of different views on climate change on the right.” I find that about as convincing as the argument that there are a lot of different views on race among Harvard’s faculty. Sure, maybe, in private, a few don’t subscribe to the idea that America is as ridden with white supremacy as it was in the 1920s. But you won’t get very far in the academy if you say that in public, will you?

More to the point, the hypothesis of carbon-created climate change doesn’t just have “some legitimate science” on its side, as Goldberg puts it, but a completely overwhelming majority of the science. You should, of course, retain some skepticism always. It’s possible, for example, that natural selection may be replaced as the core scientific consensus about how life on Earth evolved. Possible. But do we have to express skepticism every time new science based on that hypothesis emerges? Please. And I honestly can’t see how the science of this can be right or left. It’s either our best working hypothesis or not. And absolutely, we can have a debate about how to best counter it: massive investment in new green technology; a carbon tax; cap and trade; private-sector innovation of the kind that has helped restrain emissions in the U.S. already. And this debate could be had on right-left lines. But we cannot even have the debate because American conservatism has ruled it out of bounds.

EDIT

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/11/the-rights-climate-change-shame.html#comments

3 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"The Denialists, In Other Words, Have Nothing Left" - Andrew Sullivan, New York Magazine (Original Post) hatrack Dec 2018 OP
From Andrew Sullivan. Oh, my. Baitball Blogger Dec 2018 #1
The "treating denialists as imbeciles and deporables doesn't win converts" argument is frustrating D23MIURG23 Dec 2018 #2
Oh frack, we are fr%%ed. nt libdem4life Dec 2018 #3

D23MIURG23

(2,848 posts)
2. The "treating denialists as imbeciles and deporables doesn't win converts" argument is frustrating
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 03:23 PM
Dec 2018

Because denialists ARE imbeciles and deporables, and no amount of evidence will ever stop their denial.

How are we supposed to engage with a belief that has literally nothing behind it at this point? As a competing hypothesis? As anything other than nonsense? This would be dishonest, and it would cede ground to beliefs that have no basis in reason or evidence.

Its the same dilemma we have with flat earthers and creationists. These are people who believe moronic nonsense, often because of a willful refusal to think like adults. They don't deserve respect - they are a bunch of fucking rubes. They deserve to be jeered at and pelted with rotten vegetables. Moreover we aren't ever going to convert people who believe something this stupid anyway, so maybe the best approach is to ridicule them. Its not a perfect approach, but it's certainly better than legitimizing their bullshit.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»"The Denialists, In Other...