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Climate science believers compared to mass murderers (Original Post) Dragonbreathp9d May 2012 OP
Hitler was an atheist! (He wasn't) longship May 2012 #1
Sadly, arguments don’t necessarily need to be logical in order to be successful OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #2
Humans are a story telling species. longship May 2012 #4
The Death Of Facts In An Age Of 'Truthiness' OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #5
Damn! What are we doing? longship May 2012 #6
See also… OKIsItJustMe May 2012 #3

longship

(40,416 posts)
1. Hitler was an atheist! (He wasn't)
Fri May 4, 2012, 05:43 PM
May 2012

This is creepy, illogical, fallacious bullshit.

Both the Bad Astronomer, Phil Plait, and biologist, PZ Myers in his blog, Pharyngula, have utterly destroyed this argument.

When the Repukes go to these extremes it is apparent that they have nothing intelligent to offer. The problem is, and make no mistake that this is a very real problem, not many people can discern the difference. After all, evolution is only a theory. If you believe that, you probably believe that the Unabomber supports global warming, or that even if he did that it would be a significant revelation.

See what PZ and the Bad Astronomer have to say.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,937 posts)
2. Sadly, arguments don’t necessarily need to be logical in order to be successful
Fri May 4, 2012, 06:15 PM
May 2012

Of course, this is why those of us who accept the science have latched onto iconic images like this:


Does this make any real argument? Well, no, not really.

However, it communicates to us at a primal level. It prompts a sympathetic feeling of terror, and that is motivational.

longship

(40,416 posts)
4. Humans are a story telling species.
Fri May 4, 2012, 06:56 PM
May 2012

Jacob Bronowski made that fact clear in his BBC/PBS series The Ascent of Man. In spite of the early 1970's misogyny in the title, Bronowski's argument was a humanist one.

One of the arguments against science these days is a postmodernist one. That, for instance, scientists created the atomic bomb. These arguments inevitably ignore the extent to which the very scientists who first came up with the idea (specifically Leo Szilard -- the person who patented nuclear chain reaction and attempted to keep it secret) abandoned nuclear weapons after the war.

Both Szilard and Bronowski ended up at the Salk Institute in CA. Both abandoned their previous disciplines for biology, one that helps, rather than kills.

The Ascent of Man is one of the most important humanist documents in our history. Granted, since the early 70's science has moved on. Nevertheless, it paints a portrait of human cultural advancement. That what is important in Bronowski's essays. His sole focus is culture as much as it is science.

I cannot watch episode 11 without tears coming to my eyes. It is a profound humanist statement connecting quantum theory, and its inherent fuzzy causality, with philosophical and political movements of the 1930's.

I will leave you with Bronowski's final words in this essay:

It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

I owe it as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, I owe it as a human being to the many members of my family who died here, to stand here as a survivor and a witness. We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people.


Jacob Bronoski (1908-1974)
A mathematician and humanist of some note.


Gees, I cannot even post this without tears coming to my eyes. It is a profoundly true document.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,937 posts)
5. The Death Of Facts In An Age Of 'Truthiness'
Fri May 4, 2012, 07:07 PM
May 2012
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/29/151646558/if-a-fact-dies-in-the-forest-will-anyone-believe-it
[font face=Serif][font size=5]The Death Of Facts In An Age Of 'Truthiness'[/font]
by NPR Staff

April 29, 2012

[font size=3]According to columnist Rex Huppke, there was a recent death that you might have missed. It wasn't an actor, musician or famous politician, but facts.

In a piece < http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-talk-huppke-obit-facts-20120419,0,809470.story > for the Chicago Tribune, Huppke says facts – things we know to be true – are now dead.

Huppke says the final blow came on Wednesday, April 18, when Republican Rep. Allen West of Florida declared that about 80 members of the Democratic Party in Congress are members of the Communist Party.


"That was the death-blow for facts," Huppke tells weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz.

…[/font][/font]
Depressing audio for this story available at the link…

longship

(40,416 posts)
6. Damn! What are we doing?
Fri May 4, 2012, 07:28 PM
May 2012

Your post is precisely what my post was about, and of what Bronowski's essay focused.

These are very important issues. But people in the USA are so fucking ignorant that they think that idiots like Bachmann, West, and the universe of the teabaggers and the the universe of the galactically ignorant Protestant fundementalists have in anyway the facts. What sets all these people aside from those here at DU is one question. What if I am wrong?

This is a question that none of the Republicans ever ask of themselves. And this is the core of the problem.

That is the core of Bronowski's essay. I highly recommend it to understand what the fuck is happening in our country.

This is probably the most important issue in the whole political spectrum.

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