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MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 06:02 PM Jan 2012

I could sure use some help here

The county is planning to rezone a huge mass of land, they are not saying how much and I can't tell by the map they sent for an "economic growth corridor" within 1000 feet of my farm. I don't need to go into all the reasons I do not wish to have 24/7 truck traffic and 24/7 lit up like the moon on the boarder of my farm. They are planning for my new neighbors to be warehouses and light industrial. My guess is they are getting way ahead of themselves but are reserving the land mass for this purpose anyway. I doubt any thought has been given to an environmental impact study and I am at a loss how to go about requesting one done by someone other than the people that are pushing for this. I know I can't beat them but if I can slow the process down I would like to try. This land is being used for farming. They do not own it yet but they want to rezone all of it so they can move in when they find someone to build on it. I am new to this kind of thing on a personal level so I could use any advice any of you might have.

We have a few information meetings coming up to "educate the landowners". I will be there but I would certainly like to be armed with real information rather than just stomping my foot.

The area now drains into my large pond, that is a concern and from previous projects the county has done those down stream from what they do end up in a mess both with pollution and little or no planning for water movement. This area floods, not my farm, but just a few hundred feet down the road they have been under water several times in the last 20 years simply from large amounts of rain.

I have a lot of migrating waterfowl that stop yearly. I also have Bald Eagles that sit in my trees and hang out around the ponds. Light pollution will be a problem. Noise as well.

Where do I start? Please help if you have ever done anything like this and at least maybe I can go in with my mind calm and with information.

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I could sure use some help here (Original Post) MuseRider Jan 2012 OP
I wish you well. Hope someone can help you. postulater Jan 2012 #1
Thanks. MuseRider Jan 2012 #2
Maybe if there are any native tribes postulater Jan 2012 #7
The tribes are North not here sadly. MuseRider Jan 2012 #10
Start visiting your county supervisors and planners. roody Jan 2012 #3
Good advice. MuseRider Jan 2012 #4
Call the city/county XemaSab Jan 2012 #5
Thanks to you too. MuseRider Jan 2012 #6
Find out if your state requires an EIA (Environmental Impact Assessment) wtmusic Jan 2012 #8
Thank you. MuseRider Jan 2012 #9
Suckage is everywhere. wtmusic Jan 2012 #12
Wow. MuseRider Jan 2012 #14
Rock on MuseRider. Keep us posted. nt wtmusic Jan 2012 #15
How do others in the area feel about this? caraher Jan 2012 #11
I will. MuseRider Jan 2012 #13
Is there a local Sierra Club there? trof Jan 2012 #16
Link to KS Dept. of Health and ENVIRONMENT: trof Jan 2012 #17
Thanks trof. MuseRider Jan 2012 #19
The second call should be to the county or city XemaSab Jan 2012 #24
Small update MuseRider Jan 2012 #18
You seem to be taking the right steps. NYC_SKP Jan 2012 #20
Thanks NYC_SKP MuseRider Jan 2012 #21
This all sounds like Army Corps jurisdiction XemaSab Jan 2012 #25
Good, thanks! MuseRider Jan 2012 #26
Get the documentation to support your position done in advance PuffedMica Jan 2012 #22
Oooh good ideas! MuseRider Jan 2012 #23

postulater

(5,075 posts)
1. I wish you well. Hope someone can help you.
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 09:26 PM
Jan 2012

Nothing like watching a bald eagle. No matter what it's doing.

If they nest anywhere nearby you may claim your property is needed to protect them. And you may get some bird or waterfowl people to help.

I'd also check and see if there's anyway of classifying parts as a wetland.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
2. Thanks.
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 10:31 PM
Jan 2012

I thought we were far enough out but there is the old Air Force Base, now used for National Guard only since we have no airlines here, and the RailRoad goes right through there and a highway. Who needs farmland anyway?

Sorry, I am so tired of all of this. This was the 3rd time I moved away from "progress" and I thought we were far enough out. I have cared for this land for almost 20 years, most of the time all by myself and have created both a place for my animals and crop and a lot of wildlife areas. Very slowly and painfully and carefully I have worked at this. I don't know how we can keep anything around without even a dark night.

Oh boo hoo, I need to stop this and get to work. I don't know if I can declare a wetlands but if I can will that stop Industrial Parks less that 1000 feet away? Time to stop pounding my head and gnashing my teeth and get to work. It isn't like they gave us a whole lot of time and I don't think many around here care much sadly.

I think I will also repost this in the Rural forum. I do need ideas. Thanks, I will check out the wetland issue tonight and get that started. All in all I can probably count on nothing happening for a few years and maybe not until I am nearly dead. This worthless, pretentious backward city that is near me never does anything right and nobody in their right mind would want to be anywhere near here.

postulater

(5,075 posts)
7. Maybe if there are any native tribes
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 11:38 PM
Jan 2012

Nearby. They are very protective also.

I envy your twenty years of dark nights.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
10. The tribes are North not here sadly.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:28 AM
Jan 2012

It is an historical little village.

I have only been able to live here for the last 4 years, just owned and worked it for the previous years. I did come out at night to care for animals sometimes and it is indeed dark and I am sorry you have to envy that. Nothing is more beautiful or inspiring than the Milky Way and we can see it so thickly at times it seems almost, well, milky. Fireflies will give you hallucinations out here.

roody

(10,849 posts)
3. Start visiting your county supervisors and planners.
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 10:38 PM
Jan 2012

The only way to stop or slow it down is to learn about the decision-making process and follow through.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
5. Call the city/county
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 11:09 PM
Jan 2012

and ask where they are in the permitting process.

Ask if a wetland delineation has been done, and if you can see the report.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
6. Thanks to you too.
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 11:25 PM
Jan 2012

I am making a list. Freaking out, deep breathing then listing and looking around.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
8. Find out if your state requires an EIA (Environmental Impact Assessment)
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 11:56 PM
Jan 2012

and if so, demand a study on the impact on Bald Eagles and any waterfowl that stop at your ponds. In general, these are for federal projects but some states also have them for projects which may apply to your situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_assessment#United_States

The important thing is to learn what you have power over, and what you don't. Having been in your shoes, I think it's helpful to accept the changes in your environment you don't have power over. Sometimes the changes bring benefits you hadn't counted on.

Best of luck.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
9. Thank you.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:24 AM
Jan 2012

I do understand that there are some things you have to accept. This is a city with vacant everything. They just keep losing things they build for, abandon the space and move farther out into the country. Probably that is more normal than I think it is. What they are going to do is make my farm and the small village I live in surrounded by factories and industrial parks. The history here is going to be covered with concrete. It is hard to accept. Right now I am consumed with the fact I may have a landscape out my windows, my house was built so I could feel like we were outside at all times with no curtains and no need for them, of nothing but trucks and industrial park and lights. I waited for 15 years to get my house built here and have been here for only 4 years and now this. I am being very emotional about this and I need to get very unemotional about it like yesterday.

I will look into this as well. I will put it all together and see if there is anything to be done. The County Commission will do nothing for us. We are the perfect place I suppose. Maybe it will keep Keystone, when it happens, from coming through the center of it. At least it is not a huge fracking site. When one lives in Brownbackistan you can pretty much count on suckage any way you go. *sigh* Thank you.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
12. Suckage is everywhere.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:45 AM
Jan 2012

A year after I spent all my savings on my first house a developer built a three-story apartment building directly behind me - with views looking over my backyard and literally into my bedroom windows. The whole thing was illegal - 15 ft over the height limit. Someone got paid off. It was devastating.

About the same time a good friend stood up at his desk one day and fell on his face dead, heart attack. The next morning I woke up and I thought, "I don't have cancer. I have a woman who loves me. I can deal with a goddamn apartment building."

I don't mean to sound trite about acceptance, I know it's hard. I also know sometimes fighting can devour you, and then in essence you're letting them devour you - and I will jump off a bridge before that happens. In my case I planted Italian Cypress trees at the property line, and in a year or two I had a vertical wall of green and the apartment building had no view whatsoever.

The shit will work out.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
14. Wow.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 01:42 AM
Jan 2012

You don't sound trite, I figured your story was something like that. We do have a listing of trees that grow here quickly that we will employ if we must.

There is always a payoff somewhere I suspect. Lovely. I bet it broke your heart.

I will fight as hard as I can, after all I am an equality activist with the LGBT community here in Kansas so I am used to getting devoured but I taste bad and give them indigestion so pay back is OK. Mostly if we do lose, and I am about 99% certain we will, I will mourn and plant more trees.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
11. How do others in the area feel about this?
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:30 AM
Jan 2012

I'd imagine many of them feel the same way. Stopping it may start with getting everyone really talking about what you want for the future of your community. If the landowners refuse to be "educated" I'm sure there are plenty of other places for warehousing and light industrial where people would embrace their presence.

Remember that you have a voice, and remind your neighbors that they do as well.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
13. I will.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 01:37 AM
Jan 2012

We started a FBook page since there are many of the people with a page but there are only 3 of us talking. I do not know everyone, I should but since I do not attend the church I am kinda out of the loop. My neighbor and I are going to try to get it really organized this week.

Thanks, they will be hearing more of my voice than they care to I think.

trof

(54,256 posts)
17. Link to KS Dept. of Health and ENVIRONMENT:
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 10:03 AM
Jan 2012
http://www.kdheks.gov/

They may be able to answer questions re environmental impact study, etc.
Best of luck.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
19. Thanks trof.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:30 PM
Jan 2012

Their number is the first I am going to call tomorrow since everything runs through them.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
24. The second call should be to the county or city
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 09:35 PM
Jan 2012

The fact that they're having public meetings makes me suspect that this project is pretty far along.

Try to find out if there is ANY federal money involved, and try to find out if a wetland delineation has been done.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
18. Small update
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:29 PM
Jan 2012

I looked around, followed links last night and read about what a wetland really is. I ended up at a US Fish and Wildlife site that maps and follows wetlands. It turns out that 4 of my 5 ponds are considered wetlands and have been classified. Most ponds around here are however but there is nothing in this area that is even close to the size of my biggest pond although we all do share as the migrating fowl look around for food during their short stays here.

I talked to a friend who does herpetology work all over the country and has some experience, his property borders mine but he is away from the direct impact of this thing except for the potential flooding issues and pollution. He told me that Ducks Unlimited does a lot of work to insure that there are protected places. While I am not a hunter and actually loathe hunting I see that their work can benefit those of us who feel that way but have the same end plan, a place for waterfowl to live or stop by.

There are some other statewide groups that I will contact starting on Monday. There is a state chapter of The Nature Conservacy and also a statewide wetlands project but I do not know if they still exist. I will keep looking.

I question the advisability of covering in concrete an entire mass of farmland that sits above a town that was totally engulfed and submerged by flooding in 2007. Shoot, we were on CNN as miles around this farm of mine all you saw was water and floating propane tanks. Rescue operations were launched from my driveway, that is where the fire department launched their boats, my drive. I had coastal land! So that is another thing to consider. It seems every time they have done this to an area they end up causing no small amount of flooding problems for people and the Wakarusa River Valley is very prone to flooding here in this spot.

So on I go with your suggestions and clicking any links I can find. I have about a week to prepare all of this.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
20. You seem to be taking the right steps.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 12:58 PM
Jan 2012

I can only speak for the way things work in my neck of the woods, but I have attended public sessions of the county board, city council, reclamation district, and other agencies groups to speak out about growth and zoning.

You are correct in that the plan looks toward future possible development.

Here, at least, EIRs are not conducted in establishing the plan, they come later when actual construction or changes become imminent or during the permitting process.

There are probably environmental groups that can and will help you, and if there aren't then maybe you'll be the pioneer who starts one.

You and a group of citizens can change the world, get out there and educate the kids and community, prevent irreversible damage to your environment.

Good luck!

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
21. Thanks NYC_SKP
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 02:23 PM
Jan 2012

I am or was unaware of the process but I would imagine this is the way it goes. They are simply rezoning right now. I am not in the rezoning area but am within 1000 feet. Perhaps my best allies here would be those who will be encircled by industry if and when it happens or having to leave land that means the world to them. I guess I should prepare something and go do a mailbox drop.

At the moment I simply can't imagine anyone anywhere coming to this god forsaken (or not depending on if you love the tea party and the governor) state but like all the other republican states we are taking from the poor and giving to the rich and paying corporations huge sums to locate their warehouses and supply depots here.

The plan is drawn up and sectioned off it is now for rezoning. As I said above I might be dead before any of this comes to pass.

Start an organization? Oh god not another one .

The answer to your last statement is yes, we certainly can but it is a long hard battle. Is it worth doing? Yes it is. It may not change things for me but if it helps someone else or some other area then it will be worth it.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
25. This all sounds like Army Corps jurisdiction
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 09:49 PM
Jan 2012

both for the wetlands AND the floodplain.

Wetlands need not involve open water such as ponds or streams. Wet meadows and swales can be considered wetlands based on hydrology, plants, and soils.

There isn't a chance that there's native prairie there, is there?

Do your ponds drain to anywhere, or do they soak into the ground?

Do you know what your soil classification is?

This all may be helpful for wetland jurisdiction, as well as sodbuster laws and destruction of prime farmland.

When you call and talk to them, also ask if there's been a transportation study. Like I said upthread, federal funding may trigger NEPA. These people do NOT want to do a full EIS for this project.

I've seen projects stopped before by concerned citizens, but you HAVE to think beyond "this will destroy my property values" and more towards "this will destroy the regional ecosystem."

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
26. Good, thanks!
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:26 AM
Jan 2012

I have loads of little swales, my farm had berms for erosion control and unlike "serious" farmers I have let some trees grow up around them. They will stay wet for some time. Not large enough for waterfowl although I have flushed a few hanging out in them but there are other important things that certainly use and live in them when they are full, perhaps even when not.

Native prairie? You betcha. This farm was brome when I bought it, that poses it's own problems for someone wanting to stay as native as possible and as organic as possible. BUT, I do have lots of native, especially around the ponds and I created a native area with tons of native wildflowers and all kinds of native grasses. Where I am I am able to grow both tall and short grass prairie because we are kind of on the border of both of those areas. Plus, again as an independent farmer, I have allowed the areas with trees to expand and they are all native trees. It truly is a beautiful place.

The classification is Palustrine, semipermanently flooded, diked/impounded. I have one small area that does soak in. It was once a pond but sits at the low end of the property and was, by the time I bought the place just a very shallow area that holds water for a while when we get rain. My big pond gets it's water (and fish ) from other ponds higher up in the area proposed for rezoning and some small springs. It then drains into a creek that drains into the river about 1/4 mile down in the valley. What comes into my pond eventually ends in a reservoir. My pond is the cleanest around, I am exceedingly careful about the fertilizer I need to keep the brome grass. My fish are clean and without parasites.

I will ask about the transportation study. Do you think it would be a bad idea to request that all of these studies be done before they rezone all the area? I mean really, it would be a waste of time to rezone and cause the land owners in that area distress if they are unable to provide documents ahead of time that show that this is a doable project wouldn't it?

I really could not care less about my property value. This is our retirement. We saved for it. The land is all in my personal trust, paid for when the rest of my family died and I had some money to do my hearts desire. I am closing in on 60 so when I go it all gets transfered to my sons. They will most likely sell it anyway. It is all about the regional ecosystem for me, that is one of the main reasons I did this farm. I wanted to be out here, I wanted animals around (ask my neighbors who are still wondering where their traps are....answer: in the bottom of my pond) and I especially value the water out here. It is my church, my heaven and it will not be if altered the way they are planning. Bottom line, the damed town was destroyed by flood in 2007. All this concrete is going to be higher than I am and I am above the flood plane but just barely. The entire area is loaded with all the wonderful things you can find if you love the country. I do not want to see it altered. God knows there are fewer and fewer places like this all the time.

Thank you for your suggestions. I have been working on this off and on all day. I have a letter of inquiry out to the Nature Conservancy asking for their advice. They actually have an office close to me. I was thinking the Army Corps was also a good place to start. As you can see I have had many suggestions here. Thank you and thank all of you. We were not given a lot of warning so this has cut my searching time down by quite a bit.

PuffedMica

(1,061 posts)
22. Get the documentation to support your position done in advance
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 06:32 PM
Jan 2012

Test the water in your ponds and certify the results with your Agricultural Extension Office. Repeat periodically to demonstrate any change caused by runoff from the industrial area.

Drill several test wells along the edge of your farm next to the industrial area and have them registered with EPA and your state department of land management as “Official groundwater test wells”. Periodically have the wells tested and the results held on file at the EPA.

Get an air quality test done. See if you can also get a noise test done. Line up a lawyer.

At the first sign of water contamination, sue the pants off of them. File complaints that the noise is preventing your chickens from laying and the cow quit giving milk. Make no secret of your intentions at the ‘information meetings’.
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