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Related: About this forumNSIDC: Are scientists conservative about sea ice?
Guest post by Dr. Walt Meier on NSIDC Icelights:
Are scientists conservative about sea ice?
Scientists by their nature tend to be conservative when viewing new evidence. While the recent years have been surprising, most scientists are not willing to accept that ice-free conditions are imminent. But that is not because theyre being too conservative. The Arctic sea ice system is complex and there are many aspects that are not yet well understood.
A variety of feedbacks promote ice growth or ice loss. For example, sea ice has a high albedo, meaning it reflects the suns energy back into space. Darker ocean water has a low albedo, meaning it absorbs more of the suns energy, and thus more heat. As sea ice extent decreases, the change in albedo spurs a well-known feedback that enhances summer melt because the ocean absorbs more of the suns energy than the ice.
Likewise, there are also negative feedbacks that will slow the loss of ice. One of these results from the fact that ice grows more rapidly when there is no ice or thin ice than when thick ice is present under the same air temperatures. Thus in fall when the sun goes down and the atmosphere gets cold, open water areas grow ice quickly allowing such regions to catch up to thicker ice regions. These feedbacks and many other factors, such as ocean and air temperatures, wind, and weather patterns, prevent an easy assessment of a complex system.
One thing that all scientists who study sea ice agree upon is that under increasing temperatures, the overall long-term declining trend will continue and some summer in the future, we will look down on the North Pole and see a blue Arctic Ocean. Its not a matter of if, but when
.Scientists by their nature tend to be conservative when viewing new evidence. While the recent years have been surprising, most scientists are not willing to accept that ice-free conditions are imminent. But that is not because theyre being too conservative. The Arctic sea ice system is complex and there are many aspects that are not yet well understood.
A variety of feedbacks promote ice growth or ice loss. For example, sea ice has a high albedo, meaning it reflects the suns energy back into space. Darker ocean water has a low albedo, meaning it absorbs more of the suns energy, and thus more heat. As sea ice extent decreases, the change in albedo spurs a well-known feedback that enhances summer melt because the ocean absorbs more of the suns energy than the ice.
Likewise, there are also negative feedbacks that will slow the loss of ice. One of these results from the fact that ice grows more rapidly when there is no ice or thin ice than when thick ice is present under the same air temperatures. Thus in fall when the sun goes down and the atmosphere gets cold, open water areas grow ice quickly allowing such regions to catch up to thicker ice regions. These feedbacks and many other factors, such as ocean and air temperatures, wind, and weather patterns, prevent an easy assessment of a complex system.
One thing that all scientists who study sea ice agree upon is that under increasing temperatures, the overall long-term declining trend will continue and some summer in the future, we will look down on the North Pole and see a blue Arctic Ocean. Its not a matter of if, but when
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NSIDC: Are scientists conservative about sea ice? (Original Post)
GliderGuider
Aug 2013
OP
NickB79
(19,224 posts)1. I think their negative feedback example is very weak
We saw what happened to all that new ice that formed last fall and winter when exposed to repeated Arctic cyclone hits this year. It did not last long.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)2. I agree. The new ice is very vulnerable.
the positive feedbacks are overwhelming all other processes, as far as I can tell.
That third paragraph is incomprehensible. How does the negative feedback have an effect when the new ice formed melts faster and replaces multi year ice?.
hatrack
(59,574 posts)4. Exactly - and it's not as if the overall surface area of the ocean has changed
Given that the areas freshly denuded of ice are at the same latitudes, uh, yeah, they're going to freeze up fairly quickly, assuming the sam solar angle and similar seasonal weather.