Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumBig Oil’s War on the Sun
Remember Peak Oil?
Neither does anyone else.
Thats because the operational theory of why, at the turn of the century, Big Oil tightened its grip on the political system and used it to acquire as much of the dwindling resource as possible, often through proxy imperialism, has suddenly become irrelevant.
Its not as if the fear of an impending, precipitous decline in oil production wasnt an effective tool to massage markets, influence decision-makers and pique oil-thirsty populations into supporting petroleum-based wars, even if only subconsciously.
It was effective.
Rather, the planet is suddenly awash in oil. New discoveries in Africa, the long-awaited Caspian Sea oil and gas pipeline, expanding reserves in the US and the possibilities of the South China Sea have turned the earths ecosystem into a fountain of youthful exuberance for Big Oil.
http://www.laprogressive.com/big-oil-solar-power/
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The only people that want you to remember peak oil are the people who are selling you gold, silver and other overpriced commodities ....
Archaic
(273 posts)Ask the folks near the train derailment, or downwind of the flares in North Dakota. Or the ring of mercury around the Canadian tar sands.
Peak oil is not the end of oil. It's the end of cheap and easy to get oil. The oil we're "producing" now is subsidized by world governments not protecting their citizens from the pollution and future water issues.
Ask the folks in Lagos how well all this great oil wealth is helping them.
How many farmers couldn't irrigate this year because the oil companies used the money they should be paying to be clean, to buy water rights for fracking?
MindMover
(5,016 posts)You are correct in your estimations, however if the greedy bastards that owned these companies were to care about the people and the planet, they could, would, and should use current technology to keep there filthy greedy carbon hungry business practices from ruining, yes, I said RUIN inspector clouseau... the planet ... in other words they could and should spend more MONEY to keep there mining of these carbons as clean as humanly possible ....
Archaic
(273 posts)I agree that they should be forced to do what they do cleanly. I think that's what I said in my previous post. If they had to be clean, it would be expensive. If it were expensive, it wouldn't be done, and the cleaner alternatives would be where the investments focused.
So I'm not sure where the Inspector Clouseau shot comes from.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)So your "expensive" rhyme is quite annoying and really makes me a little red in color ... see one of my previous posts for an explanation of red in color ...
The inspector shot comes from a very weird sense of humor that I inherited from a very dusty American GI .... sorry if you are tooooo young to enjoy it ...
Archaic
(273 posts)It's like you've had 3 conversations before I walked in and am mad that I'm not up to speed on what you're talking about.
Go shit on somebody else.
Have a nice day.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)Big Oil cannot hide from the Sun.
It turns out that Old Sol not only provides the essential energy that powers all life on earth, butthanks to the ingenuity of some particularly troublesome human beingsits reliable light can be transformed into usable electricity through a miracle device called a photovoltaic cell!
Just imaginewhat if people could stop burning oil and gas and even coal, and just use these miracle devices to transform Old Sols sunny disposition into the power needed to run just about everything?
Well, if you are one of the masters of the oil universe, youve probably lost a lot of sleep worrying about that very question. But worrying is not enough. Big Oil is taking action to stop the Suns onslaught on their energy monopoly. Big Oil is working hard to counter market-driven innovations that are not only making solar power more and more affordable, but also making solar power a progressively more attractive investment to Big Oils heretofore reliable benefactors on Wall Street.
In fact, Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) recently issued a report touting the future of renewable energy as an investment. Suddenly, this is not about tree-hugging ethics. Now this is about the bottom line.
solar energy 408 Big Oils War on the SunAccording to BNEF, annual investment in new renewable power capacity is going to rise significantly between now and 2030. The report states: The likeliest scenario implies a jump of 230%, to $630bn per year by 2030, driven by further improvements in the cost-competitiveness of wind and solar technologies relative to fossil fuel alternatives .
But wait, theres more...
http://www.laprogressive.com/big-oil-solar-power/
'Alternatively, we could go this route:
Combining nuclear with artificial geothermal, shale oil, or hydrogen production could help slow climate change, study shows.
David L. Chandler, MIT News Office
Many efforts to smooth out the variability of renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power have focused on batteries, which could fill gaps lasting hours or days.
But MITs Charles Forsberg has come up with a much more ambitious idea: He proposes marrying a nuclear powerplant with another energy system, which he argues could add up to much more than the sum of its parts. Forsberg, a research scientist in MITs Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering, describes the proposals in a paper published in the November issue of the journal Energy Policy.
<snip>
The paper outlines three concepts, which Forsberg says could have potential in the coming decades. They involve pairing a nuclear plant with an artificial geothermal storage system, a hydrogen production plant, or a shale-oil recovery operation.
The last of these ideas would locate a nuclear plant near a deposit of oil shale a type of deposit, technically known as kerogen, that has not been used to date as a source of petroleum. Heated steam from a nuclear plant, in enclosed pipes, heats the shale; the resulting oil can be pumped out by conventional means.
<snip>
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/hybrid-nuclear-plants-carbon-emissions-1105.html
MindMover
(5,016 posts)when they use the word expensive ... just highlights there addiction to the neo-liberal agenda ...
Archaic
(273 posts)I read the first one, and am great with it. I did read it before, and was great with then as well. I just re-read it and see clean power, and less oil, less natural gas.
When I read that 2nd one, I'm seeing let's build nuclear so we can produce oil. Which is absurd.
So I'm going to go to bed. Because I think I agree with both of you, but am getting a lot of negativity for doing so.
hunter
(38,309 posts)We're cruising along on difficult-to-extract-oil, natural gas liquids, and fuels largely synthesized from natural gas and tar using large inputs of coal generated electricity. Aren't we not clever monkeys to build things like tar sand mines and deep sea oil-platforms that cause catastrophic environmental damage and dump more carbon into the atmosphere per gallon of gasoline, diesel, or jet fuel than "sweet" oils ever did.
This is classic peak oil, as predicted.
Just because you are wealthy enough to own a car and fill the tank with gasoline every once and while doesn't mean peak oil isn't happening.
Hell, when I was a young man, gasoline was almost free. I was making $10 an hour and gasoline was less than a dollar a gallon. I could drive anywhere without thinking about the price of gas. My own young adult kids sure as hell don't live in that world. Why? Peak oil.
Unfortunately our addiction to fossil fuels has only made the fossil fuel industry more powerful.
As an aside, the natural gas industry loves the greenwash of solar and wind energy because these sources are intermittent and lucky to be producing their nameplate energy 15% of the time. The 85% (or more) gap in production is filled by conventional sources.
Efforts to replace fossil fuels or nuclear power with "alternative" energy have been spectacularly unsuccessful in the greater scheme of international economics.That numbers look good in one place, say California, is mostly a consequence of high energy heavy industry (steel mills or aluminum smelters, for example) moving elsewhere in the world, for example China.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)I will just say you are obfuscating for a purpose or you have been misled by your own lack of cognitive abilities....
Alternative energies and storage for these technologies have been increasing in there capabilities every day and will overtake conventional sources in due time .... and all your pooo poooing these advancements will not stop it ...
I will only question how long peak oil proponents will say we have reached peak oil ... is it 5 yrs, 10 yrs or 30 yrs ... because as long as I can remember (and I am an old bastardo) you guys have been saying we have reached our limit of oil, we have finite resources. .. now your line is whether we have reached the end of easy to reach oil, gas, coal or whatever, whats next ??... we have reached the end of fossil fuels ... ridiculous ... our planet will continue to replenish these supplies (FYI = human beings are a carbon based life form)... the obligation we have, is to have the willpower and strength to limit our usage and eventually stop altogether ... which we will accomplish ...
By the way, you forgot to mention Hawaii and most of the rest of Europe which is miles ahead of the USA in alternative energy production ...
hunter
(38,309 posts)Hawaii is a place I know a lot about, I have family living there. It's no kind of miracle. The electric power company is as regressive as they get, actively hostile toward solar energy. And all those cars and jet airliners swarming about the islands are powered by imported oil.
Germany replaced their nuclear power with coal, and greenwashed the mess in solar and wind, exempting giant corporations from the cost of these alternative energies, dumping much of the cost on those who could least afford it.
I do my best to "walk the walk." My wife and I have avoided commuting since the mid 'eighties, a combination of planning and and good fortune.
I am not a "consumer." I pretty much boycott everything. I'm posting this on an old Pentium III laptop that was trash. Total cost (not my labor) maybe $20. LXDE and Debian are awesome. Fuck Apple, Microsoft, and Adobe. I'm not buying their crap.
I live in a house that requires neither heat nor air conditioning. I fill the tank of my thirty year old car maybe ten times a year and I feel guilty about that too. I'm wearing clothes I bought in a thrift store. My garden is organic. I'm mostly a vegetarian and I don't eat fast food. My wife and I are university educated, with science degrees. We can do the math. (At one point in her career my wife taught calculus and medical statistics. I was just a lowly science teacher and medical lab worker bee.)
Always do the math. That's where the realities are.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)...your efforts led to this conclusion:
"Germany replaced their nuclear power with coal, and greenwashed the mess in solar and wind"
Simply didn't happen; but it is a favorite line of bullshit from anti renewable crusaders.
As to peak oil being in the past, that too is bullpucky. We've been hearing that same refrain for decades. The only way you get to that conclusion is to redefine what "peak" and "oil" means. Now you have it so that all of the alternative sources of oil and alternatives to oil that the critics of the peak oil doomsday cult have always pointed to as the fundamental flaw in your claims just aren't part of your "math".
Great way to deal with the cognitive dissonance of dedicating your life to being so wrong for so long, I suppose.
hunter
(38,309 posts)I'm a Luddite without an answering machine and I hang up on machine calls, but persistent real people do eventually get through.
Let's see...
People I've known or met... Garett Hardin, Amory and Hunter Lovins, Helen Caldicott , slept on the floor of various prominent California anti-nuclear activists, hell, even slept with some in not-quite sexual ways, escaped with my virginity intact! I've worn a radiation badges as a temp worker, on my belt next to my gonads because as a young man I figured those were my most important parts. (My kids are healthy and awesome so I was probably right about this.)
I have funny stories about San Onofre, Humboldt, Diablo Canyon, Rancho Seco, UCLA research reactor (nice gemstones!), and dumpster diving General Dynamics and General Atomics.
The only way we're going to get rid of fossil fuels is to ban them. If you believe otherwise then you are just a shill for the fossil fuel industry, an industry which will be happy to "back up" the pathetically intermittent output of solar and wind energy.
Lovins is wrong. Efficiency doesn't matter at all, "smart networks" don't matter at all... Jevons paradox.
There are ways that alternative, non fossil fuel, non nuclear energy could work, especially in places like California or Hawaii that are very favorable for pumped water, off-natural-basin energy storage schemes, Salton Sea, anyone??? But these would be disruptive technologies so greenwash is currently the "most profitable" business. I won't do greenwash.
I don't "believe in" money or profits either, not within our current economic system, and I may die a homeless guy living on the streets in a cardboard box, but I'll always be myself. Not for sale, a very dangerous fellow when I don't know what I'm doing.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)In almost every single particular you are wrong. You were wrong about Germany replacing nuclear with coal and you are just as wrong with your litany of nonsense in the most recent post.
But hey, I'm sure that you have that special insight which is a seemingly ubiquitous gift of the hyper-qualified internet warrior. You know who I'm referring to; the ones that know those secret things everyone else is too stupid to realize - especially the people who actually have expertise in the field.
Jevons my ass.
I'm such a Luddite I don't even have caller ID.
Absolute minimal California PUC land-line service.
Good for dialing 911 when I have to call the cops.
Graffiti no, guns and blood, yes.
It's 2014. I've run out of patience.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)I have a Doctorate in Psychology and my wife has a masters in nursing ... We have been renewing before renewing was even a word ...
The reality is that the math adds up to more oil then we can even count the barrels, and ships offshore have got there holds loaded with oil they cannot sell ...
We are finding everyday more oil, gas and coal ... unfortunately ... I do not enjoy the fact that the world is awash in carbon fuels and will be for many more centuries ...
We all need to get off this carbon fix and do renewables before hyperbaric chambers are on every street corner so that you can do your shopping of the next new item from China ....
hunter
(38,309 posts).
MindMover
(5,016 posts)And renewables are coming faster than you think or at this point can imagine ....
hunter
(38,309 posts)I can live on the streets or in the wilderness and I have.
I win this game.
I don't feel good about that.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)Maybe you can move in with your parents and share some energy ... free at last ....lord almighty, we are free at last ...