Tesla Co-founder: What the hell did you do to my Porsche?

[Fumesucker]

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/12/26/co-founder-tesla-starting-tesla-video/

This quote from a guy they were initially trying to get as an investor, who had just driven away in his Porsche after test driving a Tesla engineering prototype, and angrily called a few minutes later, is classic: “What the hell did you do to my Porsche? I just spent a quarter of a million dollars on this thing, and it sucks now!“

Best quote from this informal talk by Marc Tarpenning, a co-founder of Tesla Motors. I found it the most interesting talk I've heard about Tesla, the audio isn't very good though so you have to listen carefully in some places.

Another good quote:

“It turns out that Priuses were selling really well in 2003. Now, Lexus… they were a little shocked. The Prius was a little bit of a publicity stunt. They brought it out to California for a variety of political reasons. They didn’t expect it to sell very well. And it sold pretty well…. But what freaked them out is that it cannibalized their Lexus sales. People were trading in their Lexuses and getting a Prius, which was built on their absolute cheapest possible platform that Toyota made at the time. So, again, Toyota thought that Priuses would only be for people that wanted to save money on gas. And instead, it was for people who had discretionary money that wanted to make a statement — you know, cars are all about statements…. Cars are all about making a statement. These people bought Priuses to make a statement to do the right thing — for whatever reason they wanted to do the right thing, they were doing the right thing. So, near where I live, in Palo Alto, it was a cliche: I mean, every driver had a Prius and a Porsche.”

[Marie Marie]

1. If I had the money...

I'd own a Tesla in a heartbeat.

[kristopher]

2. That's a really good post.

K&R
Thanks.

[Fumesucker]

3. After thinking it over a bit more there's another point or two from the talk I thought worth sharing

Marc said that the car companies that are using rare earth magnet motors are doing so in order to save a little effort on software. The Tesla motor is an induction motor that does not have any magnets in it, however the control algorithm for a variable speed induction motor is more complex than that for a permanent magnet motor to do the same job. Tesla deliberately chose the induction motor in order to avoid using the rare earth magnets that seem to be sourced almost entirely in China.

Also, when designing their first product, the Roadster, they started with the batteries and designed the rest of the car around the best battery performance they could find (which happened to be 18650 laptop cells). My own experience in building electric assisted bicycles is completely consistent with that, forget the motor(s), control electronics and so on, the battery is the heart of an EV.

And the major car companies are incompetent to an almost shocking extent in some ways, Marc told the story of trying to get a two speed transmission designed and built by a major auto supplier. After the prototype transmissions failed in a variety of interesting ways the contract ended up in court where the suppliers final legal defense was "Everyone knows that we are so incompetent that expecting a properly functioning product from us is unreasonable".

[phantom power]

4. and I'm going to make a point about your point

Also, when designing their first product, the Roadster, they started with the batteries and designed the rest of the car around the best battery performance they could find (which happened to be 18650 laptop cells). My own experience in building electric assisted bicycles is completely consistent with that, forget the motor(s), control electronics and so on, the battery is the heart of an EV.

This is a manifestation of the fact that energy storage is the problem we least know how to solve. It's the limiting reagent, as it were.

[Fumesucker]

6. Marc points out in the video that Li battery performance is increasing at about 7% per year

Either 7% more range with the same battery weight or 7% less battery for a given range. That works out to roughly ten years for a doubling of performance. Doubling the performance of Li batteries will put EVs of smaller sizes into a far more practical performance and range regime than is currently practical.

At this time Tesla seems to be the major driving force behind further development of the 18650 Li cell, there are several new models out on the market that are much more specifically tailored to EV use than the cells Tesla originally put in the Roadster.

Five years from now I suspect a 450-500 mile range from the big Tesla would not be out of realm of possibility and 150-200 miles or so for a smaller and less expensive model would be within reach.

[phantom power]

7. doubling battery performance would make a lot of things nicer

[packman]

5. Tesla makes a beautiful car, BUT

as I was listening to this talk all I could think of was, "Couldn't they find a better room?". After all, blocking off the restrooms and giving an hour long talk probably with coffee and water being drunk.

[Lordquinton]

21. That was my thought

Giving a presentation on cars right in front of the "Boys" room did not look good.

[spooky3]

8. Those quotes about Prius are stupid marketing fluff.

I'm sure that some buyers buy ANY car to make a "statement." But when Consumer Reports, the bastion of sensibility, rates this car year after year as among the best performers on all its tests and reliability surveys, and this year shows it holds its value better than any other car, people are buying it because it's a good, smart buy.

[Fumesucker]

9. He was talking about some time back when the Prius was first introduced

I know a lot of people who would like to have a Prius but not many who can actually afford to purchase one. The Prius is a great buy *if* you happen to have the cash or credit to purchase it but those who could most benefit from its frugal use of fuel are the least likely to be able to get one. Those people will be buying something like a fifteen year old Altima or Corolla like my friend in this post I put up some time back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021261268

[spooky3]

10. Agreed--though now there are more used

Priuses so they will become more affordable. And now there are more alternatives to help with that too.

My point is that they are and always have been primarily a practical car, not a "statement", good or bad, about the owner.

[ThomThom]

11. consumer reports is not reliable

pay them and they will say good stuff about your product
they are another mouthpiece for the corporate world

[spooky3]

12. you may be confusing them with other publications

They are a non-profit org and accept no advertising.

I have been a subscriber for many years and rarely found that using their ratings as a guide steered me wrong. A couple of misses involved a washer and dryer set they rated highly but turned out to be very unreliable.

[ThomThom]

17. I had similar experiences with their rating on things

like your washer dryer and have written them off

[hunter]

13. I don't consider myself a "consumer," I don't want to be a consumer, so I'm not their market.

Even neutral and non-profit, they are still part of the great U.S.A. marketing machine.

They still rate automobiles, they don't advocate an end to the automobile age or anything like that -- things that really would make the world a better place.

[spooky3]

18. Yeah, that's not their mission.

Their mission is to provide unbiased data based reports to help you choose, when you do decide to buy products. Since most of us have to buy some type of product at some time, they want you to have more info than corporate advertising. They have also done reports on problems in the health care system and how to protect yourself.

It's kind of a stretch to call them part of the marketing machine.

I wonder if you have actually read the magazine/online reports.

[hunter]

19. I have an insider's view of medical research and the health care system...

... so I'm not missing out on that.

And I'm quite serious, I don't buy many "consumer" products new, especially the sort Consumer Reports features.

I drive an $800 car with a salvage title and fix it myself when it's broken. My computers are salvage too, discarded by people when their computers got bogged down by Microsoft Windows updates, viruses, malware, and other kinds of crap. I wipe them and install Linux, usually Debian. I used to have this limit that I'd never spend more than $300 for a computer, or $35 for software, but it's dropped it to $25 for a computer (usually memory upgrades or a flash drive) and nothing for software but occasional donations to an Open Source software project.

I don't watch television just DVDs and tapes I mostly find in thrift stores or trade with friends and family, using video players I find in thrift stores. (My top-of-the-line VCR cost someone a lot of money new, hundreds of dollars. Maybe they chose it on the recommendation of Consumer Reports. It cost me $10.)

Seriously, the last major "consumer" item I bought was a Kobo e-book reader. I didn't do any research on that at all but Borders was closing and I had a fifty dollar gift card that I wanted to redeem before they did. I still have second thoughts about that, maybe I ought to have bought quality paper books instead, but I wanted an easy way to read books I download from gutenberg.org. Laptop computers are awkward for that purpose.

I did buy a Cree LED light bulb yesterday to replace a ten year old compact fluorescent that had given up, but that's how my life goes. I'm hopeful this bulb will last longer than it's predecessor.

I'm a hunter-gatherer-scavenger by nature, I don't enjoy "shopping" at all. It brings me joy to make something I need, or to find something repairable in a dumpster. Buying stuff, like a lot of things, is just something I'm occasionally pressured to do in this society. I won't chase the carrot or tolerate the stick.

[spooky3]

20. I think all of that is great.

I just think you have mischaracterized CR, probably because you have no need for it.

[father founding]

14. sweat equity

Tesla must be giving oil company ceo's and investors nightmares , which is a good thing.

[FrodosPet]

15. I kinda doubt it. Some are probably investing in Tesla.

Even if the consumption increase slows, we are at least 50 to 100 years away from a significant drop in consumption.

The sad reality is that petroleum has the highest energy density, and the easiest storage and distribution system, of any practical energy source.

[rafeh1]

16. used prius (prii?)

used prius (prii?) are very expensive because there is so much demand.

and if u do the long term numbers of prius at 50 mpg vs say another car at 25 mpg for 200K miles at $3.50 /gallon

prius needs 4000 gallons or $14000

other car needs $28000 or net savings of $14000 over the life of the car. And prii still run quite well at over 200k and many are being used as taxis nearing 300 to 400k miles