Trying to imagine the true scale of the challenge humanity faces

[GliderGuider]

For those who don't think things are as bad as people like me keep saying they are, here's a link to a definitive compilation of the science behind the concerns over climate change. It details 36 climatic positive feedback loops that are either in play or potential candidates due to the science in each case.

However, once you absorb all those threats, you still need to add:

» Ocean acidification;
» Desertification and deforestation;
» Loss of fresh water aquifers;
» Loss of soil fertility;
» Loss of topsoil;
» Species extinctions on land and in the oceans;
» Increasing human appropriation of the biosphere's Net Primary Productivity - ~50% at the moment;
» Increasing soil and water pollution with chemicals and garbage;
» Increasing instability of the global financial system;
» Increasingly extended and fragile supply chains;
» Rising fuel and food costs;
» Loss of economic opportunities around the world due to slowing growth;
» Increasing disparity between rich and poor;
» Increasing disenfranchisement of the poor;
» Increasing authoritarianism by governments in order to suppress growing dissent (or the potential for dissent) due to the previous four points.

All these are the result of rising human activity on the planet, and are additive (or even multiplicative) to the climate problem. They represent a whole additional set of positive feedback loops that must be considered at the same time as climate change.

How many bullets can we dodge at once?

[2naSalit]

1. K&R

Thanks for posting!

[pscot]

2. I'm wondering when our elites will start to bail out

I expect them to start tunneling and gaining altitude and latitude any day now. Idaho, Montana and B.C can expect a population boom I betcha. And how long before Florida real estate goes into the tank permanently?

[tclambert]

4. I'm wondering when they will start building spaceships to leave the Earth behind.

Who wouldn't want to live in an Elysium-like habitat? Just leave the ruined Earth to the smelly poor people. Hey, maybe that's what that guy meant when he said, "The meek shall inherit the earth."

[pscot]

6. We aren't going anywhere

but I expect to see a migration toward the poles and the mountain tops. And I'll bet Texans are already digging.

[xocet]

3. Rather, how many bullets can the 99% dodge as the 1% serenely lives on, accumulates wealth, and

continues to purchase the Congressional votes necessary to ensure that their pristine income streams are not polluted by the toxic environmental concerns of the hoi polloi.

Furthermore, if disaster capitalism is seen by the 1% as a valid economic pursuit, why would they want to forestall one of the greatest money-making opportunities that can be foreseen? It would not make good business sense to avoid all that potential profit.

[hatrack]

8. It won't be all that serene for them for long - what do you pay guards w. when money's worthless?

Canned ham, bottled water and toilet paper? Sure, but the guards know where it is already, and probably have the access codes.

Besides, as society in general becomes more Praetorian, elite society will also become more Praetorian. Look for the descendants of private security forces hired by the 1% to come out "on top" - if only briefly.

[xocet]

10. How much capacity does the prison-industrial complex possess? n/t

[GliderGuider]

12. As much as the 0.1% decide they need, and want to invest in.

Private prison systems make expansion relatively straightforward. it's just a question of investment.

[silverweb]

5. Our youth are stepping up bravely.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]We should be rallying to their support by the millions!

"In an unprecedented federal court case that has made it to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, young people from California are suing the EPA and Departments of Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Energy and Defense under the historic public trust doctrine for failing to devise a climate change recovery plan. In their legal brief, they argue, 'Failure to rapidly reduce CO2 emissions and protect and restore the balance of the atmosphere is a violation of Youth’s constitutionally protected rights and is redressable by the Courts.'"

Predictably, the capitalist establishment is fighting back, but this will be a landmark decision drawing much public attention no matter how the court rules.

source article

[GliderGuider]

7. If wishes were horses...

Their hearts are definitely in the right place. But "restoring the balance in the atmosphere" - which I take means restoring CO2 concentrations to 300 ppm or so over a time scale meaningful to human beings - just isn't on. We can't do it, and Mother Nature is going to take up to 100,000 years to get that job done - a little too long for even the youngest of our youth to wait.

And at the same time as climate change begins to chew our ass, we also have to deal with that other list of accelerating, interlocking crises I mentioned.

By all means fight, but don't kid yourself about the outcome.

[silverweb]

9. It's getting them involved.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]It's making moral, educational, and career choices for them. It's giving them hope and making them think about how they should adapt their choices in life to stop further devastation and begin the healing.

It may be very late in the game, perhaps even too late, but our youth have to carry on and find a way to live in the world they're inheriting. This movement is helping them achieve the necessary motivation and mobilization to make the right choices.

[LouisvilleDem]

11. Climate Change is not much of a threat

...compared to the rest of your list. Those are the things we really need to be focusing on, and it is a shame that climate change is claiming all of the attention when the other things on your list are much more important. The bottom line is that climate change is a very immature science and we do not understand it well enough to be talking about how to best address it at this point in time. We could easily spend billions of dollars to reduce CO2 and see absolutely no benefit from doing so. In contrast, spending money on most of the other items in your list would result in well defined, predictable benefits.

[pscot]

13. 13000 climate scientists

disagree.

[LouisvilleDem]

18. Nice try

Unfortunately that poll is simply a count of how many scientist believe there is a connection between carbon emissions and global warming, not a count of people that believe that global warming will be catastrophic.

[Nihil]

14. Climate Change aggravates the rate and the effects of each item in that list.

Thus it *should* be claiming attention simply because the other items *cannot* be treated in isolation.

That makes your claim that "Climate Change is not much of a threat" a pretty pathetic prayer from
a confirmed denier.

Shove your head back where it came from and "Have a Nice Day!".

[LouisvilleDem]

21. Yes it does

...but trying to stop it is simply not cost effective and has severe side effects. You can help more people with less money by focusing on the other items on the list.

[hatrack]

15. Yeah, you keep plowing that furrow . . .

.

[GliderGuider]

16. It's interesting that you can accept the rest of that list without so much as a murmur

Yet you gag on the climate change part. Even though climate concern has the support of literally thousands of scientists around the world, while the rest of the list is just my say-so.

What does that say about the relative importance of fact and belief in your world-view?

[LouisvilleDem]

20. It says I'm a realist

Climate change prevention (accomplished by reductions in emissions) is expensive, has severe side effects, and makes no guarantees of actually doing anything to help. Given these facts, I recognize that pushing for it is a waste of political energy. Far better to address things that are well understood and have a chance of succeeding.

[Javaman]

17. it works like this...

until the right wing morons in congress are directly effected by climate change, meaning, their comfy bubble of bullshit they surround themselves with is burst, nothing will happen.

they will walk around with water up to their ankles and claim D.C. was always like this.

[hatrack]

19. Or, to quote Cold Mountain . . .

Every piece of this is man's bullshit. They call this war "a cloud over the land" but they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say "Shit, it's rainin'!"

[Javaman]

22. good one. nt