Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumCould Fuel Cells Solve the Emissions Problem for Coal Plants?
The 'hydrogen economy' in action?
FuelCell Energy is developing a novel carbon-capture technology with support from the DOE.
Julia Pyper
September 8, 2015
With a little extra engineering work, some researchers believe fuel cells could become one of the most affordable ways for coal plants to keep their doors open as pollution regulations tighten.
The Department of Energy selected FuelCell Energy Inc. (FCE) last week as one of eight funding recipients to pilot low-cost carbon dioxide capture and compression technologies. The $23.7 million project (with $15 million coming from the DOE and $8.7 million from FCE) will see a 2-megawatt fuel cell deployed at a coal-fired power plant designed to capture about 60 tons of CO2 per day, while simultaneously producing about 40,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity per day.
This first-of-its-kind application is a modification to FCEs existing Direct FuelCell technology, which the company says has already generated more than 4 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity. Researchers have been exploring the use of fuel cells for carbon capture since the early 1990s, but only recently has the technology declined enough in cost to be seriously considered as a solution.
Carbon capture only works with a molten carbonate fuel cell, a chemistry that relies on CO2 to operate. Flue gas from a coal plant contains 5 percent to 15 percent CO2, with the remainder made up largely of nitrogen, as well as other gases. In FCEs application, the flue gas is routed into the fuel cell at one electrode, where the cell selectively takes up the CO2 and releases it in a concentrated stream at the other electrode. During this process, approximately 70 percent of the smog-producing nitrogen oxide is destroyed.
Once the CO2 is captured, its cooled and compressed utilizing standard refrigeration equipment. The purified carbon can then be sequestered or used for enhanced oil recovery...
More at http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Could-Fuel-Cells-Solve-the-Emissions-Problem-for-Coal-Plants
Nihil
(13,508 posts)Bonus #1 = Keep those fossil fuel plants open despite (heavily delayed) pollution laws:
> With a little extra engineering work, some researchers believe fuel cells could become
> one of the most affordable ways for coal plants to keep their doors open as pollution
> regulations tighten.
Bonus #2 = Get government funding for another CCS scam:
> The Department of Energy selected FuelCell Energy Inc. (FCE) last week as one of
>eight funding recipients to pilot low-cost carbon dioxide capture and compression technologies.
> The $23.7 million project (with $15 million coming from the DOE and $8.7 million from FCE)
Bonus #3 = Keep the smoke (literally) & mirrors going for the CCS scam in general:
> Once the CO2 is captured, its cooled and compressed utilizing standard refrigeration equipment.
> The purified carbon can then be sequestered or used for enhanced oil recovery...
And it's all being provided by that wonder-"fuel" Hydrogen Scam Industry!
Surprised that this wasn't posted as a plus point by our resident H-H-Hyper ...
Maybe it didn't have enough pretty photo-op pictures to illustrate it?
(There again, that has never stopped him spamming the usual crop of press releases
on any unrelated topic in the past.)
Thanks Kristopher!
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)broad brush.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 10, 2015, 08:49 AM - Edit history (1)
No need for a broad brush when the source for the hydrogen is clearly stated
at the start of the thread as being from coal.
(Edited to make it perfectly clear that I am accusing the hydrogen in the
project reported in this thread of originating from fossil fuels rather than
being a broad-brush swipe suggesting that *ALL* hydrogen comes from
fossil fuels.)
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Hydrogen energy is being produced from solar, manure, water, landfill gas.
This OP is in re: to coal, and most hydrogen fuel currently is being produced from natural gas, however new technology is creating hydrogen energy without fossil fuels. This is the future.
And with all methods, there is less CO2 emission. Its all good.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)There is no solar, manure or landfill gas involved in the subject of this thread, just coal.
I am fully aware that hydrogen can be created from water using solar energy
having done it myself. Good clean fun.
I am also aware that it can be created from manure & landfill gas and agree that
this is a good thing - converting a high-GHG emission into an intermediate level usable
material (albeit emitting CO2 in the process). (It would sometimes be better to burn
the CH4 directly but sometimes better to convert to H2 to burn elsewhere.)
None of those (solar/manure/landfill) sources cause me any problem with the
hydrogen industry and I am fully supportive of such projects.
Unfortunately, none of the above have anything to do with this DU thread which is
purely about adding "hydrogen" & "carbon capture" as a disguise to enable BAU
for the fossil fuel industry. It even states that this project will allow coal plants
that should (and would otherwise) close to remain open 24x7.
> And with all methods, there is less CO2 emission. Its all good.
In *this* case, there isn't "less CO2 emission" and so it is not "all good".
There *is* CO2 collection but this is only "all good" if it is successfully transported
and sequestered forever in a guaranteed safe reservoir dedicated to that purpose.
That is not supported (much less guaranteed) by the OP article as it is stated
that here - as in nearly all of the so-called "sequestration" projects - it will not
be put underground for eternal storage but will be explicityl used to *extract*
further fossil fuels which will be burned and thus add far more CO2 to the
atmosphere than would be - even theoretically - removed by the technology
being hyped in this thread.
In addition, energy is required to maintain this capture process so that also needs
to be figured into the energy vs pollution equation but that isn't my main point.
My main point is that, yet again, the introduction of the "hydrogen" keyword and
the "carbon capture" key phrase is intended to obscure the primary goal: promoting
the continuation of large-scale fossil fuel combustion for profit.
Hope that I was clearer this time.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)Maybe it didn't have enough pretty photo-op pictures to illustrate it?
You and your "Fool Cell" buddies apparently don't understand that making this personal only motivates further posting. Thanks to this kind of juvenile drivel many thousands - or tens of thousands- of people have been introduced to Hydrogen fuel cells.
Fuel Cells took men to the moon. Lots of dedicated people have worked on this tech for many years. Musk will be sorry one day (sooner rather than later) that he said what he did. And Tesla will be lucky to survive until their "affordable" model comes out, at which point many many people are going to be very very tired of waiting for an empty spot at the super duper charger island to charge their batteries that are degrading and holding less charge every time.
That's funny but I'm pretty sure I haven't posted a press release here in months, if ever. Please post a link, if you've got one.
Can you not tell the difference between a news article and a press release?
Why are you making this personal? Do you have a poster of Elon above your bed? Anyway, thanks again for the encouragement. Time for a hydrogen news search. By the way, if the Boy Wonder Lithium Battery salesman told you to run head first into a brick wall, would you ask "How fast?"
hunter
(38,311 posts)Hydrogen can be made from f**cking gas, coal, other fossil fuels, nuclear power, and renewables.
And it will be, in that order.
Unless we explicitly ban fossil fuels then levels of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere will continue to rise.
Converting already "sequestered" coal into a much more difficult to sequester gas or very high pressure liquid is madness.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)Nuclear Energy. TIA
hunter
(38,311 posts)It's the only source of non-carbon energy that's capable of supporting a high energy economy such as we have now.
I'm not saying nuclear power is good.
Most of all I think our high energy economy (fossil fueled, nuclear, even fusion if that comes along) is harmful to the earth and our human spirit.
I don't like automobiles, and I deeply resent the fact that in most places of the U.S.A. I'm not considered a fully functional adult if I don't have an automobile.
My own car (yes I am functional to that extent) is a FUCK YOU to the automobile culture, it's a mid-eighties salvage title car with many dents and dings, including a bullet hole, none of the damage done by me. I only wash the windows. I buy gas for it a few times a year. My car has spider webs on it, and lichen.
I don't want a fuel cell car, I don't want an electric car, I don't want any new car.
I've been thinking about these things for a long time.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hunter/34
One of my mentors was a major supporter of "the hydrogen economy."
But I could never make the math work. I could not figure out why making hydrogen would be better than making electricity.
Hydrogen is a squirrelly fuel to work with. The big hope in those days was metal hydride storage. It's taken a lot of material science to make compressed storage acceptable, but the stuff still leaks out of most everything at some rate.
hunter
(38,311 posts)Production of hydrogen from methane without carbon dioxide emissions is the objective of a project in which KIT is a major partner. At KALLA, the Karlsruhe Liquid-metal Laboratory, researchers are setting up a novel liquid-metal bubble column reactor, in which methane is decomposed into hydrogen and elemental carbon at high temperature. In this project, KIT cooperates with the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies (IASS). Today, the initiator of the project and scientific director of IASS, Nobel Prize laureate Professor Carlo Rubbia, met KIT scientists working at KALLA, the Institute for Pulsed Power and Microwave Technology (IHM), and the Institute for Applied Materials - Material Process Technology (IAM-WPT).
--more--
http://www.kit.edu/kit/english/pi_2013_12783.php
This carbon could then be buried as coal for the next foolish civilization to burn.
This bothers me a bit about hydrogen:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hydrogen-house
Any hydrogen that leaks is lost to the earth. It's probably nothing to worry about until some fool uncovers the secret of cheap fusion. Then we humans will multiply further and eat whatever is left of the biosphere.
We will be Borg. The earth will be assimilated.
NNadir
(33,513 posts)It's also unsurprising that the avatars of the wasteful so called "renewable energy" scam wind up trying to put even more lipstick on the dangerous fossil fuel pig they perpetuate.