New Curriculum Will Teach Arab Israeli Children About Suffering of Jews During Holocaust

[shira]

Arab-Israeli children will be learning about the Holocaust this year, as part of the recent introduction of a new educational program into Arab-Israeli schools, Israel’s Walla news website reported.

The program, entitled “In Memory’s Lanes”, was launched last year by former Education Minister Shai Piron in Jewish schools, and has now been included in the curricula of junior high schools and high schools in the Arab, Druze and Circassian sectors. The program, which highlights Jewish suffering, and the atrocities and genocide that the Jewish People suffered during the Holocaust, will present the humanistic aspects of Zionism to these non-Jewish sectors.

As part of the curriculum, educators will send students from the Arab sector to lectures by Holocaust survivors, including twins who survived the Nazi genocide. They will also be shown photos of the Auschwitz death camp along with Arabic subtitles and explanations. Educators will direct the students to discuss the ethical issues raised by the Holocaust, with teachers being instructed to discuss concepts like genocide, concentration camps and scientific experiments conducted on inmates, the victims of the Nazi genocide, and racism....

...Prior to this, the subject of the Holocaust was not taught at all in the non-Jewish sectors of the Israeli school system. This began to change in 2010, when the State Comptroller’s report examined Holocaust education in the general education system and criticized the fact that it was not being taught to the Arab and other non-Jewish sectors, according to Walla.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/04/14/new-curriculum-will-teach-arab-israeli-children-about-suffering-of-jews-during-holocaust/

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

1. Will they be teaching these children about the Nakba, aka the Palestinian ethnic cleansing, as well?

[procon]

2. I was going to ask the same thing.

If the goal is to teach about humanity, then how can it be restricted to examples that include only those people of a particular religion?

[shira]

3. That's already taught in Israeli Arab schools. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

4. Just not to all schools...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/193318#!

Piron has stated during a speech at the Kibbutzim College of Education last week that he was "opposed" to 'Nakba Day' being taught to Arab students - and instead, is "all for teaching Nakba to all students in Israel."

Sa'ar, during his term as deputy Education Minister, removed the term "Nakba Day" from the educational system in 2009.

Former IDF Chief Rabbi Avichai Ronsky also criticized Piron for the remark.

"What ideas of 'narrative' and 'historical truth' are there in teaching 'Nakba Day' to school children when it is based on a complete lie?" Ronsky fired.

"After all, the simple truth is that the Arabs wanted to destroy us, and by the grace of God and the heroism of soldiers who fought for our Independence, we instead made thousands of them flee and become refugees in Arab countries."

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-education-minister-calls-for-nakba-studies-in-school/#!

Former education minister Shai Piron said Monday he believes students at Israeli schools should be exposed to varied and even opposing views regarding the establishment of the State of Israel, including the Palestinian “Nakba” narrative, according to which the founding of the Jewish state in 1948 is considered a national tragedy.

Speaking at a conference in Tel Aviv, Piron, a Yesh Atid party MK, said that “political education” requires of teachers to expose their students to a wide range of different narratives and opinions, according to Army Radio.

The statement by Piron broke a long-standing taboo in mainstream Israel, which has traditionally downplayed the Nakba narrative. Recent legislative efforts by nationalist lawmakers have attempted to pull funding from schools that mark the Nakba.

So teach Palestinian children about the Holocaust, but don't teach Israeli children about the Nakba? You do see the hypocrisy there, don't you?

Also poor use, on your part, of the bigoted term Israeli Arab.

[shira]

5. Please explain to all DU'ers here what the Nakba is in 2-3 sentences. n/t

[Scootaloo]

6. The ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Arabs from Palestine by Jewish militia then Israeli military

Followed by the failure of Arab states to successfully intervene in the cleansing, and the subsequent refusal by Israel to allow any of the refugees it had created return to their homes. For three generations now.

[krishnarama]

19. And why is it a "celebration"?

When most of them were ordered out by their own commanders and remained a "refugee" 70 years later?

[Scootaloo]

24. The word you are looking for is "memoralization," not "celebration"

[Little Tich]

38. Ugh, another one...

Do they breed you guys in vats or something?

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined
(Le Monde Diplomatique, December 1997)

(paragraph 12: snip)
In the opening pages of “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem”, Benny Morris offers the outlines of an overall answer: using a map that shows the 369 Arab towns and villages in Israel (within its 1949 borders), he lists, area by area, the reasons for the departure of the local population (9). In 45 cases he admits that he does not know. The inhabitants of the other 228 localities left under attack by Jewish troops, and in 41 cases they were expelled by military force. In 90 other localities, the Palestinians were in a state of panic following the fall of a neighbouring town or village, or for fear of an enemy attack, or because of rumours circulated by the Jewish army - particularly after the 9 April 1948 massacre of 250 inhabitants of Deir Yassin, where the news of the killings swept the country like wildfire.

By contrast, he found only six cases of departures at the instigation of local Arab authorities. “There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.
(end snip)

Read more: http://mondediplo.com/1997/12/palestine

[shira]

43. It's funny you say you're against revisionist history, but that's pretty much....

....what you're all about.

Benny Morris revised his account:

Revisiting the Palestinian Refugee Issue
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/reviews/Morris.html

This one is even more damning when you see who acknowledges that Arab leaders called on Palestinians to GTFO...

MYTH: “Arab leaders never encouraged the Palestinians to flee.”
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFrefugees.html#6

As to Deir Yassin, your quote mentioned >250 dead. The problem is Israel bashers have been claiming for decades 254 killed. That finally had to be revised to 100...
http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/FAQ/yassin2.html

If your sources cannot even get that right, and they were off by a long shot, what else did they get wrong?

See more here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#Propaganda

And here are excerpts from a BBC program also calling everything into question regarding Deir Yassin:

[Little Tich]

46. Please note that I was quoting an article from a respected french magazine,

that based its content on the well researched findings of the two Israeli historians that Israel currently has. The quote I gave was based on Benny Morris findings as detailed in his book “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem”. Benny Morris went on later to improve on it with his “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited”.

The other Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe, is also quoted in the article, and he’s at odds with Benny Morris for being to cautious in his assessment that Plan Dalet may not have been a “master plan for expulsion”.

While these two bicker a lot, it’s more about interpretations and methods rather than factual proof.

Now to counter my sources, you put up links which try to misinterpret and distort the findings of authoritative research by any means possible, and then put up the conclusion as the Gospel of truth. These Truths are then used to make further claims that simply are untrue.

I first encountered your kind of argumentation when I read the book “The Rudolf Report” by Germar Rudolf and Wolfgang Lambrecht, about the Leuchter Report. The problem was that I pretty quickly realized it was all lies, and the methods used were quite simple to figure out. I recommend that you read this book to see the similarities between their method argumentation and yours.

I really don’t recommend anyone else to read it, it’s crap.

[shira]

47. Again, you say I'm dishonest. How's about you back that up?

What did I write or cite that was dishonest or false?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

56. Nobody really wants to waste that much time with you on that.

[shira]

59. What u really mean is that when anti-Israel revisionists are proven wrong...

....rather than own up to it & move on, they deflect, continue denying they're wrong, and resort to personal attacks.

[Little Tich]

66. The reason I simply bail is because I consider the refutal already made.

You put up an argument, and I refute it to my ability. Instead of bothering to understand my argumentation, you just put up the exact argument again.

This is one of the methods I have hinted at before; when you don’t like the answer, you just answer the exact same question again, although slightly rephrased. Then the answer might be a little different the next time, and this difference in the answering will be pounced upon as proof of goalposts being moved, or will be cherry picked as being better to refute than the first one, or the second answer will be used as if it was the answer to the first version of the question, etc.

I expect at least a cool down period of sorts between putting up arguments that are essentially identical.

Hmph.

[shira]

67. When u can justify your view w/ facts & logic, you'll have something...

Simply accusing me of lying is no refutation.

[Little Tich]

69. But is it ever possible to prove you wrong?

If I'm wrong I will stop promoting an argument that I know is faulty. It might not always be that I admit I'm wrong, but I will always promote the better argument, even if I was against it at first.

For me, it's not about winning or being right, it's about understanding more than before. I think that we use different ways to promote our arguments. Unfortunately, I think that all our arguments will prove to be inconclusive, as there never will be a clear winner.

Unless you happen to be right for once....

[shira]

70. Of course! And I don't mind admitting I'm wrong when I am...

I don't believe this is about winning either & anyone feeling they can lie or have to lie about their views on Israel (coming from a pro-Israel point of view) in my opinion is causing more harm than good.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

73. Nobody wants to waste that kind of time on you.

Nobody finds your spin cycle really wirth it any longer.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

72. What I mean is what I write. Nobody really wants to waste time on you.

[shira]

21. That's it?

Do you see the Nakba and Holocaust as comparable acts against an innocent population?

Why or why not?

[Scootaloo]

23. Yes, that's what the Nakba was.

I feel they are comparable in being acts and efforts to clear a particular territory of an undesired ethnic group. To that end they are both comparable with several such atrocities in the annals of history.

In terms of scale? No. Why?

[shira]

28. So a war that Palestinians & neighboring Arab states started against the Jews....

....is irrelevant to your notion of the Nakba. The Palestinians who fled due to Arab orders (please don't deny this) somehow demonstrates malicious intent on the part of Israel against innocents.

Fascinating.

We are to believe Israel acted purely out of malice, for no reason whatsoever, against an innocent population willing to live in peace with Jews?

Like the Nazis acted against the Jews? Seriously?

==============

Not even UNGAR's 181 and 194 go that far. They only call for refugees who should be permitted back in on the basis they're willing to live at peace with their neighbors.

They recognize the refugee situation was due to war. If they believed Israel acted in malice against innocents they would've order Israel to permit all the refugees back in.

[Scootaloo]

31. And how did they start that war, Shira?

[shira]

32. By rejecting the Partition Plan that the Jews accepted. They declared war on the Jews...

....because they didn't believe Jews have any rights to any land there.

[Scootaloo]

33. And why did they reject it, Shira?

[aranthus]

35. Irrelevant.

Asking why they rejected it is related to justifying the rejection. But by trying to justify it, you admit that they rejected the resolution, and started the war.

But to answer your question directly, it's important to understand that the Arabs rejected every prior compromise which would have allowed for the creation of a Jewish state. So the specifics of the Partition Resolution aren't particularly relevant either. The Arabs rejected it because they rejected any Jewish state in any part of Palestine. They started the war to deny the Jews of Palestine a state of their own.

[Scootaloo]

36. And why did they reject such?

[aranthus]

41. Mostly Arab/Muslim chauvinism and antisemitism.

Last edited Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:56 AM - Edit history (1)

The belief that the Jews were outsiders and therefore a threat was a part of that. Also the belief in Pan Arabism. But remember that the leadership was the Muslim clergy so that principles of Waqf and dhimiutude had important positions in their thinking. The bottom line is that they believed that all of the Middle East should be ruled by Arabs/Muslims, so that even if they didn't think of Palestine as a separate political entity (and most did not), they didn't want any part of it ruled by Jews.

[Scootaloo]

53. Mostly? What was the rest, then?

[aranthus]

54. I already listed them. Read the full post. n/t

[Scootaloo]

55. I did. You just added detail to the two concepts. Where was this Juewish State to be, map-wise?

[aranthus]

74. Somewhere in Western Palestine.

Beyond that the details don't matter, since the Arabs rejected any Jewish state in any part of Palestine.

[Scootaloo]

77. And who would rule in this state?

[aranthus]

80. Politicians.

Elected democratically. The problem was that such a state would have a Jewish majority. That is what the Arabs went to war to prevent. What's your point?

[Scootaloo]

81. How would the majority have been achieved?

[aranthus]

82. Legal immigration. n/t

[Scootaloo]

83. so there would not be a majority prior to the creation of the state?

[aranthus]

84. There was a majority prior to the creastion of the state. n/t

[Scootaloo]

87. How do you have legal immigration without a state to set immigration policy?

[aranthus]

88. You don't need to be a state. You need to have a sovereign.

A sovereign is the legitimate government of a territory. That territory does not itself need to be a state. Palestine was never a state. In the 20th century it was first a part of the province of Syria of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman government could, and did, allow immigration into Palestine. Then the British government ruled Palestine. The British government could, and did, allow immigration. It could also divide up the territory and give part of it exclusively to the Arabs, which is why there is a state called Jordan. Still waiting for your point.

[Scootaloo]

89. And what grants the British such authority?

[aranthus]

90. Conquest from the Turks. n/t

[shira]

44. aranthus is right, it's irrelevant. Your attempt to justify....

....Arabs starting a war to massacre Jews is as repulsive as neo-Nazis trying to justify Hitler's war on the Jews.

Or is that not what you're doing? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Scootaloo]

52. I'm asking about your perspective on the events around the nakba, shira

Why did the Arabs reject 181?

[Little Tich]

39. Please look at my post #38. n/t

[cali]

71. 700,000 forced out. 6 million murdered. No, they aren't comparable.

They should both be taught, but why is there any need to compare them? The difference is NOT merely scale.

[Scootaloo]

76. As acts of purges of humanity, they are

All ethnocides bear comparison. Comparison does not translate into equality.

And in this particular case, one is often used to justify the other - you can see Shira doing it right here in this thread - so the comparison is actually forced by people who are striving to justify and belittle the Nakba.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. Scoot did a pretty good job of it, but here's a snippit from the Wik for interested DUers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

The 1948 Palestinian exodus, also known as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة‎, "al-Nakbah", lit. "disaster", "catastrophe", or "cataclysm&quot ,[1] occurred when more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Palestine war.[2] The term "nakba" also refers to the period of war itself and events affecting Palestinians from December 1947 to January 1949.

The very precise number of refugees is a matter of dispute[3] but around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (50 percent of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes.[4][5]

The causes are also a subject of fundamental disagreement between Arabs and Israelis. Factors involved in the exodus include Jewish military advances, attacks against Arab villages and fears of another massacre by Zionist militias after the Deir Yassin massacre,[6]:239–240 which caused many to leave out of panic; Arab evacuation orders; expulsion orders by Israeli authorities; the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes,[7] the collapse in Palestinian leadership,[8] and an unwillingness to live under Jewish control.[9]

Later, a series of laws passed by the first Israeli government prevented them from returning to their homes, or claiming their property. They and many of their descendants remain refugees.[10][11] The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been described by some historians as ethnic cleansing,[12][13][14] while *others dispute this charge.[15][16][17]

The status of the refugees, and in particular whether Israel will grant them their claimed right to return to their homes or be compensated, are key issues in the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The events of 1948 are commemorated by Palestinians both in the Palestinian territories as well as elsewhere on 15 May, a date now known as Nakba Day.

Ethic cleansing, exodus and the state of Israel was born from it.


Will that be taught to Israeli school children?

*others: zionists that won't admit what pre-Israeli terrorists had done.

[FBaggins]

18. Are the two comparable in your mind? nt

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

20. Two peoples. Two tragedies.

You really shouldn't teach one at the expense of the other.

[FBaggins]

22. Who says it's "at the expense of the other" ?

You really think there are any Arab children there who don't learn about it?

OTOH... there are plenty of them who know little to nothing of the Holocaust (including any number of kids who are intentionally taught incorrect information about it)

[cali]

78. It should be taught in all Israeli schools. Teaching it the Nakba in schools

legitimizes it in a way that teaching it at home doesn't. I won't hold my breath.

You're still flat wrong with your comparison. It's silly to claim that they're comparable.

[FBaggins]

79. I'm not the one saying that they are comparable

That's far beyond "silly"

[azurnoir]

7. interesting a couple of things -why are these courses being taught in Arabic?

Is the language barrier that high in Israel? Also we saw much outrage about 5 or 6 years ago over UNRWA schools allegedly not teaching Holocaust studies, while they were not being taught in Israel-fascinating and telling too

[King_David]

9. Clear to everyone that you have never actually been there,

such experts .

Haven't even been there...

LOL

[azurnoir]

10. I asked a question do you have an actual answer?

or just some more of your 'clever' come backs

[oberliner]

11. Arabic is one of the official languages of Israel and the one most commonly spoken among Israeli Arabs.

There was outrage from Hamas when a rumor circulated that the UNRWA might include mention of the Holocaust in a human rights course (Hamas, at the time, referred to the Holocaust as a lie created by the Zionists).

The UNRWA denied that this was ever going to happen and does not teach the Holocaust in any of its schools in the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon nor does it make mention of it in any of said courses.

[azurnoir]

12. The Holocaust is indeed being taught in UNRWA schools

In October 2009, John Ging told The Independent that he was "confident and determined" that the Holocaust would feature in the curriculum, saying, "no human-rights curriculum is complete without the inclusion of the facts of the Holocaust, and its lessons". At the time, the curriculum was expected to be completed within weeks and then put out for consultation with parents and the public. In November 2010, Ging confirmed in an interview that the Holocaust was being discussed in UNRWA schools in Gaza, noting "we enrich the curriculum with our human rights program, for all ages. We teach the children about the history of the human rights movement. We grounded our program in the universal declaration of human rights, which is borne out of the horrors of the Second World War. So we teach the children the horrors of the war, including the Holocaust. We are also teaching the kids about the unanimously adopted resolution on Holocaust remembrance, which is a 2005 UN resolution proposed by the state of Israel adopted in the General Assembly”.

This page was last modified on 16 March 2015, at 20:56.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas%E2%80%93UNRWA_Holocaust_dispute

[oberliner]

13. No, sadly it is not

The Holocaust is not taught in U.N.-run schools for Palestinian refugees in the West Bank, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, nor is it taught in Palestinian government schools in the West Bank or Gaza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas–UNRWA_Holocaust_dispute

[azurnoir]

15. Did you add –UNRWA_Holocaust_dispute yourself to make it appear to be the same link as mine?

oberliner (28,755 posts)
13. No, sadly it is not

The Holocaust is not taught in U.N.-run schools for Palestinian refugees in the West Bank, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, nor is it taught in Palestinian government schools in the West Bank or Gaza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas–UNRWA_Holocaust_dispute

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=100288


anyone who clicks on the link can see that for themselves Your supposed quote does not appear in the germane passages

In 2005, Khaled Mashal called Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's December 14, 2005 statements on the Holocaust that Europeans had "created a myth in the name of Holocaust"[285]) as "courageous".[286] Later in 2008, Basim Naim, the minister of health in the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority government in Gaza countered holocaust denial, and said "it should be made clear that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian government in Gaza denies the Nazi Holocaust. The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history. We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality."

In an open letter to Gaza Strip UNRWA chief John Ging published August 20, 2009, the movement's Popular Committees for Refugees called the Holocaust "a lie invented by the Zionists," adding that the group refused to let Gazan children study it.[288] Hamas leader Younis al-Astal continued by saying that having the Holocaust included in the UNRWA curriculum for Gaza students amounted to "marketing a lie and spreading it". Al-Astal continued "I do not exaggerate when I say this issue is a war crime, because of how it serves the Zionist colonizers and deals with their hypocrisy and lies."[289][290]

In February 2011, Hamas voiced opposition to UNRWA's teaching of the Holocaust in Gaza. According to Hamas, "Holocaust studies in refugee camps is a contemptible plot and serves the Zionist entity with a goal of creating a reality and telling stories in order to justify acts of slaughter against the Palestinian people."[291][292]

In July 2012, Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman, denounced a visit by Ziad al-Bandak, an adviser to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, to the Auschwitz death camp, saying it was "unjustified" and "unhelpful" and only served the "Zionist occupation" while coming "at the expense of a real Palestinian tragedy". He also called the Holocaust an "alleged tragedy" and "exaggerated".[
In October 2012, Hamas said that they were opposed to teaching about the Holocaust in Gaza Strip schools run by the UN Relief and Works Agency. The Refugee Affairs Department of Hamas said that teaching the Holocaust was a "crime against the issue of the refugees that is aimed at canceling their right of return".

This page was last modified on 10 April 2015, at 22:06.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. You should really edit your link to be accurate. Some might come to believe that you are acting

in an untoward manner.

[shira]

25. What is the evidence for this? Got any news articles reporting this UN success story? n/t

[azurnoir]

27. Lol nope wiki reported it got any news under 3 or 4 years old? :)

[shira]

30. They're reporting the hearsay of one person. That's not evidence of a UN success story....

One would think this coup by UNRWA (forcing Holocaust ed into the curriculum) would be reported by journalists worldwide. With all kinds of reports on what instructors are teaching about the Holocaust compared to what kids are learning.

What an achievement! How wonderful!

But there's nothing.

[azurnoir]

42. when the "hearsay" comes from the head of UNRWA in Gaza it's more than hearsay

John Ging was the head of UNRWA in Gaza at the time

also I notice you seem to obsess on Gaza, why is that ?

[shira]

45. Still, no evidence. Do u believe everything John Ging says? n/t

[azurnoir]

48. So the head of UNRWA in Gaza isn't evidence-why all the attention on Gaza nothing on the WB? BTW

but yes I'll take Ging's word for it and the fact that Hamas is still complaining years later is also evidence, why complain unless........

[shira]

50. You're still going by what Ging said years ago. Where do u see Hamas protesting....

....holocaust education after Ging's statement? Show me please.

[azurnoir]

51. Google is my friend PS why do you keep avoiding any comment on the West Bank?

here

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Hamas-opposes-Holocaust-study-at-UNRWA-schools

and here

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza

and yes both articles are about Hamas protesting or opposing

[shira]

58. You just proved Ging lied in 2009. He said in 2009 it was being taught...

But the articles from JPost and The Guardian note that by 2012 it still hadn't been part of the curriculum.

[azurnoir]

60. No you just proved either 1 you didn't read either or 2 you depend on no one else reading them

from 2011 Hamas fuming over the new Holocaust studies program

Hamas has vowed to stop the United Nations teaching children in Gaza about the Holocaust, saying it will poison their minds.

The history of the Holocaust is planned to be included as part of a human rights curriculum in schools run by the UN Relief and Works Agency, which is responsible for the welfare of Palestinian refugees. More than 200,000 children attend UNRWA schools in Gaza.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza

from 2012 by Khalid abu Tomeh no less

Hamas in a down right hissy fit over Holocaust studies being taught

Hamas called on UNRWA to stop “passing suspicious projects in the context of services it provides to Palestinian refugees.” The children at UNRWA schools don’t need material about the Holocaust, Hamas said. “Rather, they need to be re-taught the history and geography of Palestine as a basic subject. The children are entitled to learn about the massacres perpetrated by the Zionist enemy against the Palestinians since the Nakba [disaster].”

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Hamas-opposes-Holocaust-study-at-UNRWA-schools

[shira]

62. Let me help u understand what u just quoted, because it makes Ging a liar

Hamas has vowed to stop the United Nations teaching children in Gaza about the Holocaust, saying it will poison their minds.

The history of the Holocaust is planned to be included as part of a human rights curriculum in schools run by the UN Relief and Works Agency, which is responsible for the welfare of Palestinian refugees. More than 200,000 children attend UNRWA schools in Gaza.

Did you understand that?

It hadn't been included as of The Guardian article in 2011, and yet John Ging said in 2009 it was being taught.

[azurnoir]

64. In 2009 Holocaust was mentioned in a larger human rights context

later Holocaust studies makes it subject in itself

your attempt at reinterpreting is noted as such

[shira]

68. No, that's bullshit too. Here's wiki on UNRWA's response...

This page was last modified on 16 March 2015, at 20:56.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas%E2%80%93UNRWA_Holocaust_dispute#UNRWA_response

UNRWA response[edit]

UNRWA denied that it teaches the Holocaust in preparatory schools or that the Holocaust is included in the pupils' curriculum. Adnan Abu Hasna, UNRWA spokesman in Gaza, said: "Such reports are totally untrue. The current curriculum that is taught to pupils at UNRWA schools doesn't contain any indication to the subject of the Holocaust".[1]

That's 2009. Ging lied or else the spokesman lied. Choose one.

Similarly, according to the Ma'an News Agency, UNRWA Commissioner-General Karen Abu Zayd said at a press conference on 1 September, "I can refute allegations that UN school curriculum includes anything about the Holocaust. Anyone can have a look at the school books. Really we focus on human rights in [the] curriculum."[7] The accuracy of this report was later contested by UNRWA.

Someone's lying here too. Either the UNRWA Commissioner-General, Ging, or Maan. Choose one.

The agency also denied that it was planning to include the subject in its new curriculum. Mahmoud al-Hemdeyat, director of education department of UNRWA in the Gaza Strip, said: "UNRWA hasn't finished yet from finalizing the new curriculum... As far as I know, the curriculum doesn't include anything about the Holocaust".[1]

Now it's the director of education at UNRWA either lying, or it's Ging lying.

According to the Associated Press (AP), Karen Abu Zayd suggested information about the Holocaust could be included in later years, but the curriculum being developed was still in draft stage. AP also wrote that UNWRA's website mentioned general plans to include the Holocaust in lessons on the "historical context" that gave rise to the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights.[2]

Who's lying? Now note how UNRWA's website mentions general plans to include the Holocaust. See next paragraph....

UNRWA chief in Gaza John Ging said he believed the dispute over the syllabus had more to do with attempts by Hamas to meddle in the U.N. organization's affairs than with the Holocaust. Ging added that he felt any human rights course is incomplete without discussing the Holocaust, but it would exceed UNWRA's mandate to write texts about the Holocaust and the Palestinian uprooting. According to one UN source, the lessons had been under consideration for the 2009-10 human rights course.[2]

So another UN source says the lessons were under consideration for the 2009-10 human rights course (the very thing you said was included by Ging in 2009). Another lie.

And if it's exceeding UNWRA's mandate to write texts according to Ging, what's it doing on the website?

Disputed quotes[edit]

A statement by UNRWA on 4 September denied unspecified quotes which it said the Simon Wiesenthal Center had attributed to Karen Abu Zayd and John Ging.[8] The Center had previously quoted Abu Zayd as saying "we focus on human rights in curriculum" and "the murder of 6 million Jews and 5 million other undesirables ... is not a human-rights issue", and Ging as saying "There is no intention to integrate materials and topics [on the Holocaust] that are inconsistent with the desire of Palestinian society." According to one journalist, Abu Zayd's quotes were "untraceable" and Ging's quote was "based on a computer-generated translation of an Arabic-language report by PalToday, a Gaza Strip-based news agency with Islamist sympathies, quoting a Hamas official who purported to quote Ging".[9]

Now who's lying? Ging? PalToday? Or the one anonymous journalist?

[azurnoir]

75. It was yanked from a Chinese publication prior to Gings comment don't you read the citations?

actually all of your quotes are prior to Gings comment

It must be really embarrassing to be so put out over the Holocaust being taught in schools in the OPT prior to being taught in non-Jewish schools in Israel , but it is not surprising to see such fauxrage in these parts IMO

[shira]

85. You were given references before & after Ging's comments. He lied. n/t

[azurnoir]

61. Again why no mention of this same thing in the West Bank-could seem as if you avoid this, why?

[shira]

63. Fine. It's not happening in the WB either. n/t

[azurnoir]

65. are we just to take your word for it like we were supposed to about the links you were shown?

[shira]

86. See #85. Also note that Ging never compared Gaza to the W.Bank.....

It would have been easy for Ging to point out not only how the Holocaust is mentioned with passing reference for a few seconds when the topic of human rights is covered....he could've pointed out how it's been in the curriculum within the W.Bank for a while. UNRWA could've made video-tapes of the Holocaust being properly taught to students (at any time in the W.Bank) in order for critics to see for themselves what's truly going on.

Again, there is no proof of a legitimate Holocaust curriculum being taught in all, most, or even some Gaza and W.Bank schools. A few teachers here and there maybe...

In fact, a statement from the Gaza UNRWA union (not Hamas) in 2011 shows the union is composed of Holocaust deniers...
http://lsugaza.ps/unrwa/subpage.php/subpage.php?scid=100&id=181&extra=news&type=114

From the premise that put everyone at their responsibilities, and so as not to repeat the tragedies and errors committed, and we tried through continuous communication with the agency management to demonstrate the enormity of what you are doing acts of the latest travel delegation from our children outstanding students on a trip to America and visit the Holocaust Gallery in New York or The so-called (the Holocaust) and try to students feeding concepts and ideas about the fake injustice to the Jews, but it seems that the Agency's management did not understand the message well and insisted on the recurrence of such trips, they are today preparing for the new journey for the same goals has been spotted her huge amounts of money in addition to the work neighbor afoot to build a platform so-called human rights, which will include passages about the Holocaust (alleged) Holocaust.

Based on the above emphasize the following:
First: the rejection of such trips but this alleged curriculum and we will work with all our raise our voice to stop this unacceptable behavior, which is contrary to our religion and patriotism and humanity.
Second: We appeal to parents to take caution and vigilance and not to send their children to dive in the mud and dealing with such fake trips and that certainly will affect the ideas of these outstanding students.
Third: We appeal to our fellow teachers not to deal with these trips and region until the date is not recorded on one of us that sharp on the right track.
Fourth: We demand management agency to reconsider its calculations in advance and take advantage of this exorbitant money to build schools and improve the terms are not accommodate our students and the provision of basic needs for the success of the educational process.
Our colleagues, our colleagues, God willing, we will remain watchful eye and voice defending your rights and Qzaiakm fair.


Deputy Chief of Staff Union
Essam Da'las

That's the UNRWA union, not Hamas. How do you like that?

They're first rate Holocaust deniers right there with the KKK. Imagine the kind of vile shit their students are learning about the Holocaust, on behalf of the wonderful UN.

[azurnoir]

91. The passage indicates that indeed Holocaust studies were being taught

and Essam Da'las is a Hamas official contrary to your claims

[shira]

92. By 1 or 2 teachers willing to go on a trip to the Holocaust museum?

That's a far cry from the curriculum being taught in all schools within Gaza and the W.Bank.

and Essam Da'las is a Hamas official contrary to your claims

At the time of that letter, Da'las was Deputy Chief of Staff in UNRWA's Gaza Union. He represented the UN.

Tell me with a straight fact that you believe a legitimate Holocaust curriculum was being taught in all Gaza/W.Bank schools, given the vile Holocaust denial evident in that letter. That's like entrusting KKK schools with a legit Holocaust curriculum.

[Mosby]

14. Why do Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis go to different schools?

[Scootaloo]

26. Because that is how the Israel Ministry of education works, Mosby

It divides schools into four "sectors" - State, state-religious, independent, and Arab. That's about the order in which they receive state funding as well, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Israel
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/schools-for-jews-and-arabs-separate-but-definitely-not-equal-1.443811

[Mosby]

29. hopefully this will change someday

People on all sides should stop concerning themselves with "arab" and "jewish" culture and focus on Israeli culture.

[Scootaloo]

34. Good idea. Could you give some examples of Israeli culture they can focus on and build from?

[Little Tich]

40. I agree. No more of that Jewish State BS.

Just the Democratic State of Israel for all its citizens...

[Mosby]

49. That's not what I meant with my comment

Schools should be secular and religious education separate.

[Little Tich]

57. Sorry. I thought you meant Arab, Jewish and Israeli culture respectively. n/t

[guillaumeb]

37. and why do the Arab students have to be segregated from the Jewish students?

That sounds suspiciously like an apartheid type system to me. Imagine the media coverage if the US school system was officially divided by ethnicity. Teaching the Holocaust while avoiding teaching about the Nakba sure sounds like Revisionist History 101. Do they leave out Deir Yassin and the many other atrocities as well?

Now do they explain the disappearance of 80% of the original inhabitants? Does that come in Revisionist History 201?