South African companies boycott G4S over links to Israeli prisons

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/18111-south-african-companies-boycott-g4s-over-links-to-israeli-prisons

As many as 20 South African companies, including manufacturers and chain stores, have ended their security contracts with G4S in protest at the company's links to Israeli prisons and detention centres. The news was announced by the Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement.

Speaking at a meeting at the Embassy of Palestine in Pretoria on Thursday, a spokesperson for the BDS movement said that the move comes as the Palestinians are commemorating Prisoner Day and Israel escalates its crimes against prisoners and detainees in its jails. The spokesperson pointed out that G4S has ignored repeated calls to stop providing Israeli prisons with security technology and services.

The movement applauded South African solidarity committees and their peaceful efforts which led to this achievement and has caused the British security company to lose nearly 7 million Rands a year. The Bill Gates Foundation ended a $200 million contract with G4S in June last year following pressure from South African solidarity committees.

Renowned former political prisoner Ahmad Kathrada welcomed the South African companies' decision and called for the expansion of the international solidarity campaign to help release Palestinian prisoners, including women and children.

BDS is growing, and the Israeli apartheid machine is worried. It can censor its citizens at home, but it will not be able to silence the world.

[oberliner]

1. They are boycotting G4S over "links to Israeli prisons" not due to their torturing of South Africans?

G4S-run prison in South Africa investigated over abuse claims

A South African prison run by the British security company G4S is under investigation for allegedly using forced injections and electric shock treatment to subdue inmates.

Prisoners, warders and health care workers said that involuntary medication was regularly practised at the Mangaung Correctional Centre near Bloemfontein. G4S denies any acts of assault or torture.

The revelations come just weeks after the South African government took over operations from G4S after finding it had "lost effective control over the prison" in the wake of a series of stabbings, riots, strikes and a hostage taking.

The latest allegations follow a year-long investigation by the Wits Justice Project (WJP) – part of the journalism department of the University of Witwatersrand – which uncovered damning video evidence apparently showing forced medication. A staff member at the prison hospital, who did not wish to be named, alleged that inmates were injected with Clopixol Depot, Risperdal, Etomine and Modecate. These anti-psychotic drugs can cause memory loss, muscle rigidity, strokes and other serious, potentially life-threatening side effects.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/28/g4s-run-prison-south-africa-investigation

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. Looks like they should be out of the prison trade altogether; at home and apartheid prison Israel.

[King_David]

32. Your very passionate about the Palestinian cause

It's always wondrous when someone adopts another people's cause as their own and becomes more involved than anyone actually from that group.

Alex Kane is a prime example of that...so much so he tweets advice to Hamas during the war on weather to accept a cease fire with Israel or not-- as if he fancies himself as a Palestinian leader and is envious he is not one of them.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

67. I'll leave you, your obsession with Alex and your

remaining imaginations without further comment.

[shira]

2. Pro-Hamas rag Middle East Monitor defends Hamas' Genocidal Jew hating charter...

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/blogs/politics/15829-why-hamas-should-not-heed-calls-to-amend-charter

The Hamas Charter is considered by the movement's supporters as a key and stand-alone historical document pertaining to Hamas's political and social ideology. In the event that this document is altered or amended, it would cause a state of undue and untimely confusion and tension within the ranks of the Hamas supporters. It would also be seen as a concession to international and Israeli pressures, even if the changes made to the charter were not substantial or even if the new charter was more extreme in crucial issues such as the recognition of Israel or dealing with international proposals. As long as such amendments form part of international demand or foreign advice, then any response to these demands will be seen as a concession and a weakness in the eyes of both Hamas's supporters and the movement's political opposition. It will also send a message to international forces that soft pressure on the movement actually works....

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

4. Can't refute the OP News, shira. That's rough. Bring up a blog.

Face it, shira. BDS is growing in leaps and bounds since the world is sick of Israeli apartheid.

But let me leave you and DU with a few words.


First they ignore you...

Then they laugh at you...

Then they fight you... <<<--- This is you right now, shira.

And then you win.

[shira]

5. Maybe u should consider not posting filth from Jew Hating sites like MidEastMonitor. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. Perhaps you should try and digest the fact that Israel is an apartheid state, and that they world

has grown tired of it's abuse of power, illegal colonization, human rights abuses, land theft and murder: all done to prop up a failed zionist ideology.


BDS.


Once again...

First they ignore you...

Then they laugh at you...

Then they fight you... <<<--- This is you right now, shira.

And then you win.

[oberliner]

8. What happens after you win?

What is your vision of post-BDS victory Israel?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

13. Still can't refute the article?

[shira]

19. That's like asking me to refute something from Rense or Stormfront. n/t

[azurnoir]

24. In reality stuff from such hate sites is unsually relitively easy to refute

[shira]

26. Why waste any time refuting shit from racist hate sites? n/t

[azurnoir]

29. If you can not refute this article or the what the link you posted really said then what can I say

[shira]

38. Do you think I'd attempt to refute something from Rense or Stormfront?

I view MidEastMonitor the same way as those garbage sites, so why bother?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. There there, shira. The truth is hard to refute, isn't it?

[shira]

37. That's what they say about Rense & Stormfront. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

43. It must be tough for you having to come up with these hollow nothings.

But I am surprised. You haven't dragged out david duke looking for sympathy.

[shira]

55. It's like being told you have to refute Pamela Gellar, or else she's 100% correct! n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

60. So instead you drag out Pamela Geller?

Oh, you...

[shira]

62. The point is I don't waste time refuting crap from racist, hateful publications

Do you do that?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

65. It's an article on the divestment of a company doing business with Apartheid Israel

I understand your misgivings...




but they are completely off as usual.

[King_David]

39. What news ? They boycotting because of their history of torture of South Africans

LOL

BDS claiming victory for that is PATHETIC.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. Okay, whatever that means...

[King_David]

48. Oh I think everyone knows what it means.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134100620#post1


The BDS movement next will try take credit for the sun rising every day and someone here will post it in this group.

LOL

[Little Tich]

47. Boycotting Apartheid worked once. Hopefully it will work a second time.

I want a better Israel, just like South Africa became better.

[oberliner]

7. That is funny

"In the event that this document is altered or amended, it would cause a state of undue and untimely confusion and tension within the ranks of the Hamas supporters.'

We certainly wouldn't want any Hamas supporters to be confused.

[azurnoir]

10. the author said the entire charter should be re-written rather than the existing one amended

Although it may be true that some of Hamas's positions need to be clarified, the best way to do this would not be to change the existing charter but to issue a new document explaining the movement's strategic vision over a specified period of time. However, this document must be clear and understandable, devoid of any extra words and without any dense literary jargon. It must be focused on the clear political matters at hand and keep pace with social and political developments in the Palestinian arena, allowing for changes over the next five to ten years.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/blogs/politics/15829-why-hamas-should-not-heed-calls-to-amend-charter

[shira]

11. The author conveniently didn't mention the parts calling for massacres of Jews...

Maybe he just "forgot".

[azurnoir]

12. No he said the entire charter shoud be re-written say what does Likud's charter say?

it seems to have been absented from the Knesset's English language website

[oberliner]

14. "O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

Not that.

[azurnoir]

15. How many times must I repeat the author said it should be rewritten

and no he did not say any specific part should be kept intact as you seem to imply

[azurnoir]

16. Can you perhaps fill us in on Likud's charter maybe a quote or 2

[oberliner]

17. Mondoweiss has a bunch

I'll defer to them:

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/netanyahu’s-party-platform-flatly-rejects-establishment-of-palestinian-state

Nothing about killing Muslims behind trees though.

[azurnoir]

18. nothing from the Knesset's website nothing official? but say isn't the hadith that

seems so popular to quote from here actually an end times prophecy?

[oberliner]

20. Don't know details about hadiths

I just know Hamas has that language in their charter and I think it's pretty appalling. You don't?

If you wanna play "look over there! Israel is bad too!" knock yourself out.

[Jefferson23]

23. Good luck with getting an honest reply lol The Likud charter:

Likud officials call to omit Netanyahu's two-state declaration from party platform

The new platform is supposed to include a reference to the establishment of a Palestinian state, after the PM recognized the two-state solution principle in his 2009 Bar-Ilan University speech.
By Barak Ravid and Jonathan Lis | Dec. 25, 2012 |

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/likud-officials-call-to-omit-netanyahu-s-two-state-declaration-from-party-platform.premium-1.489731


**From the allegedly peace loving Zionist Union, a Palestinian Bantustan is ordered up:

Zionist Union platform aims to set Israel's final borders [/b
3/8/2015

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-Elections/Zionist-Union-platform-aims-to-set-Israels-final-borders-393308


Mashaal: I accept a Palestinian state on '67 borders
By JPOST.COM STAFF 11/22/2012

Hamas leader says he'll move to a peaceful path contingent on the "end of the occupation" and Palestinian statehood.

"I accept a Palestinian state according [to] the 1967 borders, with Jerusalem as the capital, with the right to return," the Hamas leader told Christine Amanpour in Cairo.

Pushed about his party's refusal to recognize Israel, Mashaal said such a declaration could only be made once a Palestinian state has been created.

"After this state is established, it decides its standing toward Israel," the Hamas leader said

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Mashaal-I-accept-a-Palestinian-state-on-67-borders

Hamas accepts 1967 borders, but will never recognize Israel, top official says
By Haaretz Service | May 11, 2011

Hamas would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, a leader of the militant group, Mahmoud Zahar, told the Palestinian news agency Ma'an on Wednesday, adding, however, that Hamas would never recognize Israel since such a move would counter the group's aim to "liberate" all of Palestine.

Zahar's comments come amid Palestinian efforts to form a unity government that would include former rivals Fatah and Hamas, following a reconciliation agreement thHamas accepts 1967 borders, but will never recognize Israel, top official sayse two factions signed last week in Cairo.

Speaking to Ma'an on Wednesday, Zahar, hinting at the possible political line of a future Palestinian unity cabinet, said that recognizing Israel would "preclude the right of the next generations to liberate the lands," wondering: "What will be the fate of the five million Palestinians in the diaspora?"


The Gaza strongman went on to tell Ma'an that Hamas would be willing to recognize a Palestinian state "on any part of Palestine," as opposed to the group's proclaimed aim to form a state "from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-accepts-1967-borders-but-will-never-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072


Hamas: We’ll recognize Israel within '67 borders
Published: 05.11.2006

Faction's spokesman at Palestinian parliament voices pragmatic, surprising declarations during Ramallah conference; 'we, Hamas, are committed to calm up to this moment,' he says

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3249568,00.html

I made sure to only use those publications the group you're speaking to can handle, they
shamefully discredit others publications for obvious reasons.

[azurnoir]

30. Thank you

[Jefferson23]

31. For you, anytime..always a pleasure.

[shira]

21. He didn't mention the parts where all Jews were to be massacred.

That's pretty important to anti-racists.

[azurnoir]

22. repeating yourself? The author said the entire charter should be rewritten

Although it may be true that some of Hamas's positions need to be clarified, the best way to do this would not be to change the existing charter but to issue a new document explaining the movement's strategic vision over a specified period of time. However, this document must be clear and understandable, devoid of any extra words and without any dense literary jargon. It must be focused on the clear political matters at hand and keep pace with social and political developments in the Palestinian arena, allowing for changes over the next five to ten years.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/blogs/politics/15829-why-hamas-should-not-heed-calls-to-amend-charter

[shira]

25. Anyone decent writing about the charter would unconditionally condemn...

....the parts that clearly point to all Jews needing to be killed.

You're defending the indefensible.

[azurnoir]

27. back to nasty personal attacks? this time accusing me of defending the the Hamas charter

when in reality I'm pointing out the author of your link said it needed to be rewritten

[shira]

35. MidEastMonitor is a Hamas rag. There's no way their writers....

....would ever dare condemn the Jew hating charter as something vile and disgusting.

Not even on the English website.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

45. See post 27, and read it.

[shira]

56. Only after you read & honestly consider #5. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

64. So you admit you didn't read post 27?

[Scootaloo]

28. Yarg blargh, rargh blargleglargh! Rarf-gargle narr rag baggle blargh! GRAAAAAGH!

Have you got all that out of your system now Shira? If so, I'd love to hear caroline Glick's opinion of the OP, and you're my primary dealer for that stuff.

[shira]

36. Glick is a nut, but she doesn't call for the murder of all Arabs

In fact, she calls for a 1-state solution that makes all Palestinians within the W.Bank into Israeli citizens.

Meanwhile, all I see are far Leftists who can't be bothered by anything Hamas does - either to its own people or WRT Jews.

[Scootaloo]

41. The thread is about a South African boycot of G4S

It's not that we don't appreciate the floor show, Shira, it's just that this isn't the Comedy Barn. there are no waitresses to tip, and there is no veal to try.

[Little Tich]

46. Let's hate Hamas correctly.

The Hamas charter isn't a charter in the normal sense, as Hamas doesn't use it and almost never refer to it. Hamas calls the charter no longer relevant, I would rather call it the ramblings of madmen.

My point is that it's pointless to bash something that's irrelevant. The charter is a straw man.

[King_David]

49. Nope the charter is inconvenient for some

Same as Gay rights in Palestine.

[Little Tich]

50. I barely know anything about gay rights in Palestine.

All I know comes from watching “the Bubble”, basically.

[King_David]

51. There are no Gay rights in Palestine

Gays don't survive Hamas.

[Little Tich]

52. That was one of the things I got from watching the movie. n/t

[shira]

57. Hamas constantly calls for killing the Jews. Their charter isn't irrelevant. n/t

[Little Tich]

59. I fail to see the connection.

If Hamas wants to kill Jews, and their ideological grounds for wanting to do so are from somewhere else, what does it matter what the covenant says?

And more importantly, what's the connection between the South African boycott of G4S and Hamas?

[shira]

61. Hamas proves by word and deed that everything in the charter is still relevant today

They haven't changed one iota since 1988.

As to the S.African boycott, I was just referring to the MiddleEastMonitor (MEMO) reporting this in the OP.

MEMO is a pro-Hamas, Jew-hating rag that no liberal or progressive should be citing. Ever.

[Little Tich]

63. Obviously some liberals are citing this “Jew-hating” rag even if you don't like it.

If you don't like the source, just don't post anymore in the thread. It's useless to try to discuss a crappy source. If you are opposed to BDS, and the article from the “Jew-hating” rag contains enough facts to go on, then by all means voice your opinion.

[guillaumeb]

33. interesting how a post about success in the BDS movement

is hijacked to discuss Hamas. I see this over and over in this group. Some apologists for the Israeli version of apartheid seem to have two responses whenever unflattering news about Israel is posted.

First, attack the source. Rather than refute the source, call motives into question. That way, even if the post is factual, the motives of the poster or of the source become the controversy.

Second, deny whatever is posted. Deny any history of the area if it does not support a right wing Israeli position.
Bombing of the King David Hotel? No connection to Jewish gangs in Israeli revisionist history.
Multiple massacres of Palestinians during the 1940's? None of them happened according to Israeli revisionist history.
Continuing violations of International Law by settling and developing stolen land? We want land swaps. Legal under revisionist legal history.

It is difficult to debate people who refuse to accept abundantly documented facts when the facts conflict with whatever position the apologist clings to. But in spite of the Israeli revisionist history that some here persist in writing, the world is learning about what is going on in Palestine.

[King_David]

40. It was no succes for BDS

The BDS movement pathetically claimed success for South African companies' boycott because South Africans were tortured.

The fact BDS claims this as a success is pathetic, dishonest and a lie.

[Little Tich]

42. This is good news for Israel.

Anything that forces Israel to think twice about the occupation might help Israel to end it.

[shira]

54. Ending it w/o a peace agreement will lead to more conflict. n/t

[Little Tich]

58. You are probably right.

BDS is an attempt to change the framework of a negotiated agreement. The Palestinians are negotiating with Thrasymachus at the moment, and parameters that would make the parties more like equals are needed.

[shira]

53. The BDS movement has previously lied about divestment from G4S

First, believe it or not, the BDSers have decided to get back into the divestment hoax game by declaring that simple business decisions or investment choices based on non-financial issues having nothing to do with Israel are actually successes for their “movement.”

This was a favorite technique the boycotters used years ago which was dropped once people caught onto them, leading to fraudulent stories related to organizations like TIAA-CREF, Blackrock and other financial firms being exposed within hours.

But recent claims that Bill Gates has turned on Israel by divesting from the security company G4S at the behest of the BDSers seems at odds with the massive investments he and Microsoft continue to make in the Israeli economy. And the existence of a perfectly reasonable explanation for Gates’ sale of G4S stock (that he bought it when the price was low and sold it soon afterwards when the price rose) means it is the boycotters’ responsibility to prove that a politically motivated divestment decision took place (by following the same guidelines used for every other divestment project in history, save theirs, described here), rather than our job to prove that it did not.

G4S was involved in a second recent hoax, this one involving the Methodist Church selling off shares in the company due to their general involvement in the management of prisons. And, once again, the BDSers were firing off their press releases declaring the Methodists to now be in their camp, despite the fact that the church has explicitly said their decision had nothing to do with Israel.

While I’ve come to believe that many BDS hoaxes are designed to fuel the Israel haters delusions of potency and effectiveness (even at the cost of being exposed as liars to those who do not share their fantasies), the obvious political motivation for pushing fraudulent stories about the Methodists onto the front pages now is to influence upcoming PCUSA votes via lies that say “The Methodists have joined our movement and so should you!”

http://divestthis.com/2014/06/pcusa-return-bds-hoax.html

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

66. Gates is divesting from G4s.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/supportservices/10884767/Bill-Gates-sells-entire-stake-in-G4S.html

Beleaguered security company G4S has lost one of its most important shareholders with Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft and one of the world’s richest men, selling his entire stake in the business for a modest profit.

Mr Gates created a stir a year ago when it emerged that Cascade Investment, the firm that manages assets of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Trust, held 3.2pc of the business.

Cascade is estimated to have paid £110m for the holding as G4S wrestled with a series of crises. The security group’s woes culminated with it being banned from Government contracts after being accused of overcharging for tagging offenders, some of whom were found to be back in prison, overseas or dead.

Poor you.