Settlers uproot 450 olive trees from Palestinian lands, bringing total to 800,000 since 1967

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/settlers-palestinian-bringing

Settlers uproot 450 olive trees in Salfit

SALFIT (Ma‘an) 21 Apr — Israeli settlers from the Immanuel settlement uprooted some 450 olive trees and saplings from lands in Deir Istiya, northern Salfit, on Tuesday. Mayor of Deir Istiya Amal Qouqash told Ma’an that farmers were surprised that the trees had been uprooted as they went to farm their lands near the illegal settlement. The Immanuel settlement was built on lands belonging to residents of Deir Istiya, according to researcher Khalid Maal. Maali told Ma‘an that “the settlement is near the Wadi Qana area which settlers aim to have complete control over.” Wadi Qana is located inside an Israeli settlement bloc and located in an area within the “seam zone,” cut off from all other Palestinian villages in the region. Surrounded on all sides by Jewish-only settlements, Israeli authorities have long designated Wadi Qana a natural reserve. Such designation prevents Palestinian farming in the area as well as construction, while providing legitimization for Israeli forces to legally uproot Palestinian-owned olive trees. Israeli forces uprooted 120 olive trees in Wadi Qana earlier this month, having delivered orders to the farmers to evacuate their lands more than three weeks prior, farmers told Ma‘an at the time. Since 1967, approximately 800,000 olive trees have been uprooted by Israeli forces and settlers in the occupied West Bank, according to a joint report by the Palestinian Authority and the Applied Research Institute Jerusalem.

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=765008

This is why we need BDS. This is why we need a free, strong, viable Democratic Palestinian state: free of marauding Israeli colonists destroying anything Palestinian.

Some hate BDS for this reason and will even embrace LGBTQ-hating GOPers if they pass anti-BDS legislation. Don't bee fooled by these counterfeit democrats.

BDS.

[Major Nikon]

1. Results...

Settlers uproot 450 olive trees from Palestinian lands, bringing total to 800,000 since 1967
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134101407

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The second to last paragraph is a personal attack specified to King_David. Enough is enough.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 22, 2015, 04:19 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: When a PERSON is not specified it isn't a PERSONAL attack.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If you have to be in the in club to recognize the personal attack, then the post probably doesn't rise to the level of needing hiding. Also, afaik, personal attacks are no longer automatically against the rules on DU.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

13. The alerter has a sad.

[Jefferson23]

2. All part of the plan. n/t

[King_David]

3. BDS goals are essentially homophobic

There's 2 Palestinian states.

Both subscribe to the very worst bigotry against gays in the world especially Gaza
( state 2) equivalent to Uganda and Iran and IS.

BDS wants to import this HATE into equal rights -Gay Israel ( I repeat : Gaza is among the most homophobic places in the world)

And its progressive to support this import of hate?

BDS is not a Democratic Party value in fact quite the opposite.

Why would any Gay guy agree to go back to the Stone Age or medieval times which is what a single state as BDS is pushing for will bring.

No wonder the extremist Right wing homophobic David Duke supports BDS .

[Ken Burch]

5. Whatever you think of BDS

Would you agree that it is completely indefensible for the settlers to keep stealing the olive trees from the Palestinians?

800,000 trees uprooted now since 1967-and olive trees are some of the oldest trees in the world.

Palestinian farmers who have tended those trees for generations deprived of their livlihoods for no reason.

[guillaumeb]

9. No he will not.

That would not be in accord with his "Israel can do no wrong" narrative.

[King_David]

12. Hey Mister, if you want to talk to me then talk to me but don't talk about me in that manner

It's just plain rude.

Thanks

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

17. Bruised ego aside, dave, this is an internet group. S/he can converse with who they want to.

Perhaps said poster believes there's no meat to your argument: wishing to refrain from further contact.

[guillaumeb]

53. Many people have a narrative that they believe.

While that is any person's right, if the narrative is at odds with the historical record, any debate cannot change the narrative. I cannot convince someone to abandon a deeply held belief. I can try to point out the inconsistency between the belief and the historical record.

King Davis was correct that I could have directed my response to him, and perhaps I should have, but I stand by my evaluation.

[guillaumeb]

54. It was not rude by my view.

Simply an observation based on my experience with your style at this site. Unlike your off totally point "observation" in another thread about Canadian inferiority complex.

[King_David]

68. That was 100% true

If anyone been to Canada.

Canadian nationalism consist entirely on the premise of "we aren't American "

It's more amusing than anything.

I will say Canadians are the sexiest men in the world.

Canadian LGBT handily defeated the Queers against Israeli Apartheid and the Canadian Gay Jews caused them to disband permanently.

The Jewish Gay group that did that called Kulanu is huge and 190% Zionist .

I love Canada.

[guillaumeb]

69. Then we agree on one thing.

When you said:
"I love Canada" I agree with that. You DO mean Quebec, as opposed to the non-francophone parts of the country, correct? As to Canadian national identity, you have a bit to learn.

But here is a song for you, to celebrate our agreement:

[King_David]

70. I love all of Canada , Quebec included.

The separatist Quebecois are the biggest bigots in North America .

They blamed the loss of the referendum on money and the ethnic vote aka Jews.

[guillaumeb]

86. Speaking as one of those whom you describe as "the biggest bigots in the country"

some proof of your rather hyperbolic statement would be interesting. I have read nothing that supports your claim that PQ supporters blame the Jews. As to ethnic votes, Canada is much like the US in the wide range of ethnicities represented.

Are non-PQ Quebecois lesser bigots? One of the leaders of QS, a left wing party, is Amir Khadir. Would he qualify as a bigot?

The problem with absolute statements, such as yours, is that they assume that ALL or MOST members of a particular group think identically.

[King_David]

87. Sure -Not hyperbole at all - it's rather well known what was being referred to,

Parizeau blamed “money and the ethnic vote” (seen by many, as code for the Jews and the foreign born)

http://www.parli.ca/money-and-the-ethnic-vote/

[guillaumeb]

88. Parizeau has not been the Provincial Prime Minister in many years.

So a 1995 statement from one Quebecois politician is "proof" that all Quebecois are bigots?
From the article that you very selectively used:

"The target of Quebec Premier Jacques Parizeau’s wrath in his bitter concession speech to YES supporters on the night of their loss of the 1995 Quebec Referendum.1 Parizeau blamed “money and the ethnic vote” (seen by many, as code for the Jews and the foreign born) for the razor-thin defeat of the YES forces, prompting cheers inside the hall, but triggering a maelstrom that resulted in his speedy replacement as PQ Leader and Quebec Premier by the sovereignty movement’s white knight, Lucien Bouchard.

Despite the personal disrepute that descended on Parizeau, the sentiment he voiced has remained something of a leitmotif in separatist circles. Its sensibility informs Pauline Marois’ xenophobic “Charter of Values,”2 with the question of who is or is not a “real Quebecker” at the centre of much separatist thinking."

Parizeau was also speaking about the many Anglophone inhabitants of Quebec who were against separation.
As to former PQ Prime Minister Pauline Marois and the Charter of Values, I believe that most Quebecois saw that as her desperate attempt to reverse falling poll numbers. (Plus the law was aimed at Muslim women wearing the veil.)

Perhaps you should read a little more Quebec/Canadian history before you pronounce ALL Quebecois to be bigots.

[King_David]

89. Of course I never said all

Last edited Fri Apr 24, 2015, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

He wasn't just a politician, he was a separatist leader and premier or governor of Quebec.

I said separatists .
And there is a history of it as I demonstrated.
AntiZionism or antisemitism of course is not endemic to Quebec.
France has it at the moment in a big way.
The USA is just way more tolerant, probably because we have the second biggest Jewish population in the world.

[guillaumeb]

90. Parizeau was the Provincial Prime Minister.

Equivalent to a governor in the US. And the PQ is a party that has separatism as one of its principles. But there are immigrants of many nationalities living in Quebec, including a fairly large Jewish group in Montreal.

And yes, anti-Semitism in France has been a problem in every Republic.

AS to which country is more tolerant, the US or Canada, ask a person of color in the US the same question. Or a Muslim.

[azurnoir]

6. sigh do we really need to go over this again? BDS does not support a single state

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

[Ken Burch]

7. He's going to post the damn Bargouti quote again any time now-

Last edited Thu Apr 23, 2015, 12:48 AM - Edit history (1)

-even though that quote is simply Bargouti expressing a personal view and NOT the official position of BDS as an organization.

[King_David]

8. Bargouti is a real Palestinian leader

Unlike the American or Irish or --- ones who wannabe Palestinian and are armchair activists and think they speak for the people of Palestine.

[Ken Burch]

18. He doesn't set the policy goals for the American wing of BDS.

They set those for themselves, from what I can see. BDS is not the Comintern of the I/P debate.

[azurnoir]

32. it's not even the American wing it's the International BDS movement

[Ken Burch]

46. I was thinking in terms of the activists for BDS in the states, but you're right.

I seriously doubt that Bargouti is the Stalin of this operation. We're past the days when any large group had that type of organization.

[oberliner]

40. Who is "they" ?

Can you tell me who some of the leaders are of the American wing of BDS? Is there a committee that sets the policy goals? If so, can you identify who is on that committee? For instance, who runs the website? Who wrote the text outlining the movement's goals? Were these goals voted on? If so, who was a part of that vote? Was there a general consensus? Is there a final decision making body?

Do you know the answers to any of these questions?

I can tell you that there are about a dozen prominent BDS activists who have regularly toured the US giving presentations about the movement. Some of them have also written books on the subject. This group of people seem to very much be in support of one-state and believe BDS is the path to get there.

If you read the book I linked to elsewhere, written by Mr. Barghouti, you will see that he is generally viewed as, if not the leader, than at least a major player (and founder) of the movement. And he could not be more explicit about his views in support of one-state.

The same would go for Ali Abuminah.

If you can give me a few names of other prominent BDS leaders who support the two-state solution, I would be very interested in that information.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

19. Are you now speaking for the people of Palestine, dave?

Oh, the irony.

[azurnoir]

20. I traced the quote back to a 2004 issue of Electronic Intifada

which was prior to the BDS movement, notice it's just said that he said and that he's a founder of BDS not that he said it in that capacity, it seems about assumptions and inferences

[shira]

23. BDS calls for millions of Palestinians to go into Israel....

A Palestine next to another Palestine.

May as well be 1-state since the long-term outcome would be identical.

[King_David]

28. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134101407#post25

[shira]

34. Barghouti is the BDS movement. Not only a co-founder but also...

.....the BDS movement's most high profile spokesperson along with Ali Abunimah.

I'm sure you're aware that their "2-state" solution is a call for one Palestine next to another Palestine after a fantasy RoR of millions.

Why pretend otherwise?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

15. You seem to be the only one who knows what a link is.

There's a lot of baseless invective flying around in I/P lately from the usual suspects without so much as supporting link for their dubious claims.

[oberliner]

21. The One State Declaration

Authored By:

Ali Abunimah, Chicago
Naseer Aruri, North Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Omar Barghouti, Jerusalem
Oren Ben-Dor, London
George Bisharat, San Francisco
Haim Bresheeth, London
Jonathan Cook, Nazareth
Ghazi Falah, Akron, Ohio
Leila Farsakh, Boston
Islah Jad, Ramallah
Joseph Massad, New York
Ilan Pappe, Totnes, UK
Carlos Prieto del Campo, Madrid
Nadim Rouhana, Haifa
The London One State Group

http://electronicintifada.net/content/one-state-declaration/793

[azurnoir]

22. The quote given me was from 1/6/ 2004 yours is from 2007 and not from the BDS movement

http://electronicintifada.net/content/relative-humanity-fundamental-obstacle-one-state-solution-historic-palestine-12/4939

more over one state is not mentioned in the stated goals of the BDS movement

so once again because you seem to not understand

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro
:large

[shira]

24. Omar Barghouti and Ali Abunimah are the leading voices for the BDS movement

They're both for 1-state & even when they say they're for 2, it's essentially one Palestine next to another Palestine due to Jews becoming a minority and losing their self-determination.

So BDS calls for Palestinian self-determination at the expense of Jewish self-determination.

[azurnoir]

31. you assume that5 million Palestine refugees will that's counting the 2-3 million that live in the WB

and Gaza will come bearing down on Israel, which is a very hostile foreign country for them, some may return but not any where near that number

At present the population of Israel is 8.3 million with only 1.7 million non-Jews even if all the Palestinian refugees not presently living in Palestine where to return Jews would still be the majority

[shira]

33. Assume? No. That's the plan, otherwise they would've been given a choice decades ago....

....whether they wanted to get on with their lives or wait it out.

150,000 of them in Syria could have signed off on a make-believe RoR in order for Israel to help facilitate their transfer into the W.Bank. Mahmoud Abbas said it's better they die than do that, leaving them no choice.

Where were you at the time, even now, calling for their right to choose their fate for themselves? Do you still support their right to sign off on RoR in order to get out of Syria and into the W.Bank? Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke here.

[azurnoir]

47. I was one of those who felt Bibi's using the lives of Palestinians in Syria to try to circumvent

a key negotiating point to allow them to enter what is already recognized by over 130 countries as Palestine a disgusting display of callousness in reply to a call for humanitarian assistance, as it stands Jordan came to the front and took most of them in

About Abbas the claimed quote is untraceable as it is supposedly what someone said he said to someone else

[shira]

50. The point is u argued many refugees would not choose to go to Israel....

The problem is you couldn't care less whether they do the choosing for themselves or not. They had an opportunity and Abbas refused to let them act on their own individual choice.

What's disgusting is pretending that a genuine RoR that involves millions of refugee descendants is legitimate. Beyond there being no precedent for such a thing....no such right, international recognition, or law exists.

You know that, so why pretend?

The Palestinians of the W.Bank shouldn't even count as refugees since Jordan gave them citizenship when it annexed the area before 1967. If they're refugees, they're refugees of Jordan....not Israel. Anyone who knows anything about refugees knows that.

[azurnoir]

60. so now are you claiming that each individual refugee had to sign papers or some such?

and the number I stated was 5 million not the over blown 150,000 you're claiming

[shira]

65. The 5 million descendants of refugees having some RoR is fantasy....

Not even all the original refugees are required to be taken in by Israel.

This is based on UNGAR 194.

Agree or not?

[azurnoir]

48. it should be noted that the number of Palestinians killed in the Syrian Civil war is nearly equal

to number that Israel has killed in the same time period

[shira]

52. So why did Abbas reject Netanyahu's offer to facilitate their transfer to the W.Bank? n/t

[azurnoir]

59. That has already been explained to you, why do you ignore that Jordan stepped up to the plate

where as Israel/Netanyahu attempted to us the lives of Palestinians as a bargaining chip, to circumvent actual negotiations

[shira]

61. Jordan turned them away. From summer 2014...

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/07/jordan-palestinians-escaping-syria-turned-away

Again, why did Abbas reject Bibi's offer?

[azurnoir]

63. the link is dated months prior to Abbas plea there were already 15,000 Palestinian refugees from

Syria in Jordan at the time the article was published

are you now dropping your claim that it was up to each individual refugee to sign papers saying they would not ever seek residence in Israel?

[shira]

64. No, it shows Jordan never took those Palestinians in & that Abbas really did...

....prefer they die in Syria rather than sign away a fake RoR. Even if you want to claim he never said that, his actions prove it and the silence from the alleged pro-Palestinian brigade speaks volumes.

I still believe it's up to each individual coming from Syria into the W.Bank, don't you?

[oberliner]

25. From February 2015: One state in historic Palestine, but — what kind of state?

Excerpt:

The one state rationale comes from the clear unwillingness of the Israeli government to pursue any policy except continued expropriation of Palestinian land and an apartheid policy, while obfuscating its aims by claiming to seek a two state solution. The outlook is to build international consciousness through BDS and other means, but also to enlist the support of world governments. At a recent such conference the author attended in Ramallah in September, 2014, the BDS movement and an international petition were proposed by one speaker, with the other emphasizing a need for popular struggle uniting Arabs and Jews, such as mass attacks on the separation wall.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/state-historic-palestine

Funny that you keep pointing back to the BDS Movement site when in another discussion you talked about how the Likud website deliberately left out certain things but you still knew they were true about the organization. Of course, not every BDS-er supports one state and not every Likud supporter opposes a Palestinian state, but those are clear features of each as evidenced by the leadership and majority of supporters.

Let's be grownups about this instead of just posting links back and forth.

The fact that I hope you will acknowledge is that the call for a single state is pretty intricately linked to the BDS movement even if such a call is not explicitly or officially stated on that website. Barghouti and Abuminah are two vocal leaders of the movement and they have written books and given talks around the world calling for a one-state solution - and advocating BDS as the way to get there.

[King_David]

27. +1

[azurnoir]

30. NO my link shows the stated goals of the BDS movement 1 state is not one of them

what has become quite obvious is the need for some for it to be

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

where as your link mentioned one speaker and did not name who that was

[shira]

35. Are u denying that Omar Barghouti & Ali Abunimah are the leading voices for BDS?

They're far and away the most high profile spokespeople for BDS and they clearly say they're for 1-state.

[azurnoir]

49. My statment is as stands period

[shira]

51. LoL. It's not just BDS but u are also against Jewish self-determination....

You oppose a Jewish state and wouldn't have a problem with Jews being the minority there.

That's what 1-state is all about, but here you are in denial.

Why pretend?

[azurnoir]

57. Sounds like you're accusing me of antisemitism

and I do not have to pretend to anything, there is no need as I have nothing to hide

[oberliner]

37. BDS: Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions : the Global Struggle for Palestinian Rights

Omar Barghouti is a universally accepted leader and founder of the BDS movement who has spoken forcefully in support of the one-state solution as well as having written extensively on the subject.

Similarly, Ali Abumninah, who runs the EI website, has written and spoken out in favor of the one-state solution.

These are two of the most prominent voices and faces of the BDS movement.

Can you point me to some books by BDS leaders (or supporters) who speak out in favor of the two-state solution?

Here is a book by the founding member of the BDS movement mentioned above (Barghouti).

http://www.amazon.com/Boycott-Divestment-Sanctions-Struggle-Palestinian/dp/1608461149

“No one has done more to build the intellectual, legal and moral case for BDS than Omar Barghouti. The global Palestinian solidarity movement has been transformed and is on the cusp of major new breakthroughs.”
—Naomi Klein, author of The Shock Doctrine and No Logo

I would encourage you to read it if you want to get a fuller understanding of the movement that goes beyond a blurb on a website.

[Israeli]

92. Authored By:

Naftali Bennett.......

http://972mag.com/naftali-bennetts-annexation-plan-a-report-card/100498/

http://forward.com/news/210527/right-wing-star-naftali-bennett-trashes-two-state/

The two state solution is over oberliner......its done, its dead ......and not because of any of those you have listed .

The status quo is the reality for now ....for how long ?...your guess is as good as mine .


Ali Abunimah, Chicago
Naseer Aruri, North Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Omar Barghouti, Jerusalem
Oren Ben-Dor, London
George Bisharat, San Francisco
Haim Bresheeth, London
Jonathan Cook, Nazareth
Ghazi Falah, Akron, Ohio
Leila Farsakh, Boston
Islah Jad, Ramallah
Joseph Massad, New York
Ilan Pappe, Totnes, UK
Carlos Prieto del Campo, Madrid
Nadim Rouhana, Haifa
The London One State Group

Have no say in what will be ............tomorrow belongs to Bibi and Bennett.

[oberliner]

93. "The two state solution is over..."

This is indeed one of the rallying cries of the BDS movers and shakers (and most of their supporters).

Those of us outside of that narrow community still believe that the national aspirations of the Palestinian people can be achieved without the elimination (or de-judaization) of Israel.

[Israeli]

94. I'm 100% sure that Bibi and Bennett........

.....have no intention of eliminating (or the de-judaization) of Israel.

I'm also 100% sure they have no intention of allowing a Palestinian state to come into existence .
At the best the status quo will continue and the settlements continue to grow. At the worst they will annex .

Once again : http://972mag.com/naftali-bennetts-annexation-plan-a-report-card/100498/

You can believe what you like .....but the Left lost these elections oberliner and reality is just around the corner .

Netanyahu: If I'm elected, there will be no Palestinian state

In a definitive disavowal of his Bar-Ilan two-state speech, prime minister makes last-minute attempt to draw voters from Bennett's Habayit Hayeudi.

By Barak Ravid | Mar. 16, 2015 | 5:27 PM

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyhau said Monday that if he were to be reelected, a Palestinian state would not be created, in a definite disavowal of his 2009 speech, in which he had voiced support for the principle of two states for two peoples.

Netanyahu's remarks in an interview with the NRG website - which is owned by casino mogul Sheldon Adelson and tied with the settler newspaper Makor Rishon - were a last-minute attempt to pull right-wing voters away from Habayit Hayehudi.

"I think that anyone who moves to establish a Palestinian state and evacuate territory gives territory away to radical Islamist attacks against Israel," Netanyahu said. "The left has buried its head in the sand time and after time and ignores this, but we are realistic and understand."

During the interview, Netanyahu declared that if the Zionist Union were to win the elections, "it would attach itself to the international community and do their bidding," including freezing construction in West Bank and East Jerusalem settlements, and cooperate with international initiatives to return Israel's borders to the 1967 lines.

During a visit to the East Jerusalem settlement of Har Homa earlier Monday, Netanyahu warned that if he were not elected, "Hamastan B." would be established in Jerusalem. “If Tzipi [Livni] and Bougie [Isaac Herzog] form a government, Hamastan B will be established here.”

He also slammed Jewish-American businessman Danny Abraham, one of the primary financiers of the V-15 campaign to flip the Israeli government. Netanyahu did not mentioned Abraham by name, but said that the primary financier of V-15 has come to his office in the past and tried to convince him not to build in East Jerusalem.

"I said to him – have you ever been in Har Homa? He said no, and that it was a dangerous settlement. I suggested he go there and said he would make it in time, that he wouldn't be late to the meeting. They took him to the car, returned to the office, and rolled on the floor with laughter. The man was prepared to go to Sinai and couldn't believe that the car stopped after seven minutes and that he had reached his destination. These are the people telling us who needs to be in government, these are the people who think Har Homa is in Sinai."

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-election-2015/1.647212

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

14. Anytime that you can lift a finger to show where BDS has come out as anti-LGBTQ would be helpful.

Links please.

Otherwise I will have to pass up on your word salad.

[shira]

36. I'll show it. BDS will support a future 1-state Hamastan if it means....

....the end of Israeli "apartheid".

True or False?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

41. You write that you will show it the jump

into question/demand mode.

How silly you have become.

[shira]

42. Thanks for making my point. Point proven. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. So no ability to post those links either...?

[shira]

45. Why? When your non-response proves the point? Thanks again. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

55. So no link then?

I knew that you were carrying a bag full of excuses.

You even wrote that you would provide it, but I guess that failure is the name if the game today...

[shira]

56. Your non-response "shows" that BDS prefers a Hamastan over Israel.

I know it, you know it, and anyone keeping up with the thread knows it.

It's why you fear answering the question.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

58. Did the mini vacation cause you some stress?

I only ask because...

1. You are not making any sense.

2. The accusations made by a few now were that BDS is anti-LGBTQ...which I asked links for.
You said you would, but I guess you are not embarrassed by falling on your face...twice.

[Little Tich]

71. How can equal rights for Palestinians be homophobic?

It seems as if you don’t think that LGBT rights are just a segment of civil rights. I firmly believe that LGBT rights are one form of civil rights and that all civil rights go hand in hand. If you fight for LGBT rights, you fight for civil rights in general and vice versa.

[King_David]

72. Gays in Israel have equal rights

BDS is fighting for a 1 state .

Includes Hamas and Westbank and Gaza.

Is their any rights for Gays in Gaza or the West Bank for that matter? In fact as far as gay rights are concerned its medieval times in those places as it is anywhere around Israel.

A unitary state will be the end of Gay rights and if it looks anything like Palestine today ( or any other state surrounded Israel ) it will mean Gays will be taken back to a gay-cultural Stone Age.

Why would any LGBT agree to lose every right they have and in fact have to live in a place with constant danger of death?

[azurnoir]

73. you neverstop this do you ? no matter how many times you're shown BDS's goals in their own wordsstop

you'll continue to spread this one state meme you seem to have built but just because here it is again

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

[King_David]

76. You've been corrected before by Oberliner so please it's your website that's being deceitful

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134101407#post25

Now you have been corrected, stop with the faux whitewash of the BDS movement.

[azurnoir]

80. No I haven't "corrected" what was posted was innuendo at best no proof that at all

there is no "whitewash" only the statement from BDS's own website

[King_David]

81. As Oberliner pointed out

The actual leaders of BDS have been quite honest in their aims and goals of creating one state ... I'm pretty sure they speak for themselves and not some American armchair activists.

[azurnoir]

83. BDS is much larger than the 2 people that have been brought up

BDS is not anti-Gay rights but perhaps you can find yet another supporter such as this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=101379

oh and here once again are stated goals of BDS

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

[Little Tich]

74. The whole idea of the one state solution is about equal rights.

There is nothing that says that giving Palestinians equal rights would somehow make them want to have an Islamic state with little regard for civil rights. What you are afraid of is essentially the “Eurabia” scenario.

I am not a proponent of the one-state solution, but neither am I against. All serious BDSing by actual companies and local governments have been against the settlements and the occupation. How is divesting from the settlements actually promoting the one-state solution? Isn't BDS actually promoting the two-state solution?

To prove my point that the BDS that is done by governments is directed against the settlements, I will provide you with a few examples:

Sodastream
Horizon 2020
the EU ban on settlement poultry
Mekorot
Veolia
Norwegian pension funds have no companies with ties to the settlements in ther portfolio

If you have any government (apart from countries like Saudi Arabia), government agency or companies anywhere that BDS Israel proper, please show me.

[King_David]

75. Is their any state you can think of that affords any Gay rights at all in the area?

Any area? And Palestine especially Gaza is the worst in the world.

Take a chance?

No way

[Ken Burch]

4. A song that always comes to mind when I hear another story like this:

[pansypoo53219]

10. maybe is real can set up their own ghettos.

[shira]

11. Maan & Mondoweiss....both reported on Zionist controlled pigs attacking Palestinians

Last edited Wed Apr 22, 2015, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

The National Enquirer is probably more honest and accurate on I/P than Maan & Mondoweiss.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. How's it going shira?

LTNS

[azurnoir]

62. the phrasing "Zionist controlled pigs" is yours they are wild boars

here are the articles in question Ma'an is reporting what Palestinian farmers are telling them

Wild boars damaged a number of plum trees, fig trees, vineyards and other agricultural crops, farmers in the Wadi Shaer area of Salfit told Ma'an.

Farmers accuse settlers of deliberately releasing the boars onto their land.

Residents and local officials in the area have for several years complained that settlers release boars, which have caused injuries and destroy land in the rural communities.

The Applied Research Institute - Jerusalem says that while Israel claims it cannot control the wild boar population in the area, and the purposeful release of pigs cannot be confirmed, Israel's separation wall has pushed the animals to search for new habitats.

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=630514

Mondoweiss is simply doing a run down of other publications

Israeli pigs [wild boars] in the district. Farmers said, “We have encountered heavy losses in our wheat and barley crops, where the pigs destroyed them completely.” They added, “We tried to get rid of the pigs with all available ways but we have failed,” pointing out that the only way is to shoot them; which is difficult due to the miltary’s monitoring towers and checkpoints in the area. Furthermore, according to Al Ray, Palestinian researcher Khaled Maali explained that the settlers found launching wild pigs toward the Palestinian farmlands was the best effective way to fight the Palestinian farmers without significant cost. Maali pointed out that the occupation prevents the Palestinians from shooting the pigs, whereas it permits settlers to kill the pigs when they reach their colonial settlements. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/israeli-settlers-palestinian#sthash.UZJJF8BI.dpuf

[shira]

66. LoL. Zionist controlled boars who specifically attack Palestinians, not Jews...

It's amazing you feel the need to believe that crap in order to defend Ma'an.

[azurnoir]

67. In this case settlers who you call Jews are allowed to shoot the wild boars Palestinians are not

because Palestinians are not allowed to have guns

In any event the settlements dumping of waste onto Palestinian land rather than treating it, along with the loss of habitat due to the encroachment from the wall and ever expanding settlements has contributed greatly to the problem of wild boars

eta B'tselem report of waste water dumping

http://www.btselem.org/download/200906_foul_play_eng.pdf

[shira]

77. No, Ma'an published a ridiculously insane, idiotic article about Jewish attack pigs...

Evidently trained by "settlers" to attack only Palestinians.

Ma'an has gone with this story on at least 3-4 other occasions. Never any photos, video, or names involved. And you believe it! That's the funniest part.

Unfortunately, Ma'an has dabbled in some really vicious antisemitism as well.

Nice source.

[azurnoir]

95. Then post us a link "Jewish attack pigs" seems your choice of words I posted a Maan article

that phrase did not appear in it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134101407#post62

[DetlefK]

26. Just yesterday I got weird looks from an Israel-apologist.

(Yeah, Israel-apologist is a weird word. Couldn't think of a better one right now. It's not meant to be offensive.)


"My, incredible what some people believe..."
This after I brought up that the ghettoization, the state-sanctioned destruction of private property and the legal discrimination reminded me of the treatment of Jews in the 1930s.
I'm not talking about rounding up people and genocide.
I'm talking about actively engineering laws to make their lives worse.
I'm talking about attacks and demolitions that don't get rectified. (I remember a grainy black&white movie from Germany in the 1930s: A jewish house is burning and the spectators and firemen just stand there and watch and chat with each other.)
I'm talking about segregation.



I just can't wrap my head around it.
I just can't.
Israel, founded by victims of racism and violence, has become home to racism and violence.
Do they fail to realize? Or do they realize and simply don't care?

[shira]

29. It is incredible what some people believe...

Last edited Fri Apr 24, 2015, 09:49 AM - Edit history (2)

They pretend as if the Jews are acting out of complete, irrational malice - based on the most infantile, idiotic narrative making the Jews out to be the oppressors, while organizations committed to the genocide of all Jews like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs, and the PFLP are helpless, passive victims.

They willfully swallow the Hamas narrative in whole, defending and supporting Hamas' war on the Jews while casting Jews as the new Nazis and Palestinians as the new Jews. They tend to be, by and large, neo-Nazis themselves when they aren't just useless idiots. In fact, at Stormfront, they get off on calling the Jews Nazis. Imagine that, Nazis accusing Jews of Naziism. Took me awhile to figure out they're neo-Nazis, after giving them every possible benefit of the doubt for years. IMO, there's no difference between the Hitler or Stalin fascists. That's the BDS movement in a nutshell. I'm more convinced of it every passing day.

Lastly, these hostile, degenerate critics of the Jewish state don't give a shit about Palestinians - whether grownups or children. They're all compassion abusing, concern trolls. Based on years of confronting these nazis on social media like Facebook and Twitter, I've found they really hate and loathe Palestinians as much as they do Jews. In fact, I've found they all - every last one - supports Hamas' oppression against its own civilian population (gays, women, and worst - children). They support a future 1-state Hamastan if it means getting rid of Israel. I can't figure out who they hate more - Jews or Palestinians.

[DetlefK]

38. It is.

Disclaimer:
I have limited knowledge on the situation in Israel.
I repeat what I see/read. I have no personal experience in that and I refuse to give an ultimate statement on that.
To come back to my final sentence: I cannot wrap my head around what is going on there. All I see are glimpses.

Those glimpses for example do not include the response of law-enforcement if israeli settlers destroy palestinian property. Maybe there is a response, maybe not, I haven't seen reports about it.
Those glimpses for example do not include an outreach by the israeli administration to palestinian communities to compensate them for loss of land for example due to the declaration of a national park. Maybe there is a response, maybe not, I haven't seen reports about it.
Those glimpses for example do not include calls from within the israeli society to end the military occupation and settle for a permanent non-violent solution. Maybe there are a calls, maybe not. The only ones I've seen are from individual writers, seemingly not speaking for a larger segment of israeli society.
Those glimpses for example include the bombing of civilian areas in Gaza. They include reports of israeli soldiers using palestinian civilians as human shields. They include reports that the israeli government deliberately provokes Hamas into attacking so as to have an excuse to "mow the grass".
Those glimpses for example include the rantings of jewish extremists that are willing to kill and to die for an Israel "from Jordan to the sea" where Palestinians obviously don't exist anymore. Those glimpses include an obviously religiously extremist jewish mother in a settlement in the Westbank that said that she won't mind if her child dies in israeli-palestinian violence: That child's blood will have sanctified the ground. It will have died for Israel.

All I see are glimpses.
And those glimpses make Israel look bad, because they look like segregation, discrimination and racist violence.
And I repeat what I see/read.

And to come to your point about concern trolling:
I care about the Palestinians as much as I care about the Israelis affected by the bombardment by Hamas, Ukrainians fighting to keep their country together, Ukrainians fighting to secede from a government they deem illegal, Syrians fighting Assad, Kurds fighting for their freedom, Shi'ites in Iraq fighting for Iraq's stability, Sunnis in Iraq fighting for the security of their kind, the fishermen of Yemen that turn to piracy because foreign boats catch all their fish, the children of Caracas that have to grow up in a society where crime has become the new normal and is just a job, the yazidi and nigerian girls that are just spoils of war and sex-slaves for men that don't know mercy, the negroid Africans in Libya trying to reach Europe for fear of being thought of as one of Gaddaffi's mercenaries and getting lynched... They are all the same to me. And all of them deserve a better fate.

[shira]

39. Here's something that will help get u started. It's an eye-opener for many...

It's common knowledge to Jews in Israel, Europe, and America.
http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/183033/israel-insider-guide


Same journalist wrote these a little later...

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/

http://fathomjournal.org/the-ideological-roots-of-media-bias-against-israel/

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

43. Boy-oh-boy you sure gave a lot of phantoms

haunting you.

Hamas, Nazis, stormfront, degenerates.

Perhaps you need another break?

[King_David]

78. I do not think its Shira that needs another break here

On a Democratic Party supporting site there's others that belittle Gay rights and use antiZionism to express borderline bigotry and also share nothing in common with our party policy.

It is they who deserve more than just a break here.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

79. Seeing how you openly embrace the

Tennessee Republican legislature for their myopic and backward vote on BDS perhaps you should reflect a little on your actions.

The reason I bring that up is anybody who has read your OP on that will realize the Tennessee GOP have passed some rather hateful LBGTQ legislation. Why some LGBTQ democrat, which they must hate, would endorse them shows either a complete lack of understanding on their part, a naiveté reserved for the very young or perhaps a revelation that they are not really what they say the are, IMHO.

[King_David]

82. I don't think your posts or accusations could possibly be taken seriously

Single issue and if anybody espoused such sentiments such as antiZionism , belittling Gay rights or calling for BDS etc they would be kicked off a Democratic Party campaign pronto .



They no where near any Democratic Party policies .

Thankfully

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

84. I knew you would fall in your face again.

1. You have made a horrible choice backing these guys.

2. The only hating of the LGBTQ community us coming from them.

3. Show where I have allegedly belittled gay rights. Now please.

[King_David]

85. I no longer reply to you

I consider your accusations obnoxious.

[Ken Burch]

91. It's somewhat contrary to reply to someone ...

...by saying that you no longer reply to that person.