Netanyahu secures 67 members for coalition

[Israeli]

Barring last-minute changes (a not uncommon occurrence in Israel), Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s fourth government will be sworn in next week. It will be a narrow, right-wing and ultra-Orthodox government, but with a solid majority of 67 Knesset members, hence its nickname: “the 67 government.” This does not refer to the '67 border lines, but to the 67 Knesset members of the coalition from which this government will be assembled. Most of these Knesset members do not recognize the two-state solution and the 1967 lines; while these are viewed by the global community as the basis for all negotiations vis-à-vis the Palestinians, these Knesset members view them as fictitious.

This will be the first time that, in the current political era, an ideological right-wing government is established in Israel (with slight exceptions). Although the right has ruled Israel for several decades already (with short breaks), right-wing prime ministers were careful to establish balanced governments with representatives from center, or even center-left blocs. This was true for Ariel Sharon, when the Labor Party was part of his first government (2001-2003); for Netanyahu, whose 2009 government included Labor, too; and Netanyahu’s 2013 government, which included Tzipi Livni, now co-leader of the Zionist Camp. This time, Netanyahu lacks any and all major fig leaves; he says that he is carrying out “the will of the voter.” He promised an ideological right-wing government, and he is delivering on his promise. This is a dangerous experiment, the consequences of which are uncertain. It is a shame that such an experiment is being carried out on human beings.

(snip)

The first harbinger of things to come in the coming year is US Undersecretary of State Wendy Sherman’s statement April 27. She said, "If the new Israeli government is seen to be stepping back from its commitment to a two-state solution, that will make our job in the international arena [i.e., to protect Israel] much tougher.”

Source: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/04/israel-new-government-right-wing-fig-leaf-kahlon-liberman.html

[geek tragedy]

1. the clarity is necessary, however.

Instead of being coopted, the sane elements of Israeli society can begin to articulate an actual vision of what they'd do in power.

The 67 government is what the Israeli people wanted. Well, they got it. Now they've earned the consequences of the government's actions.

[Jefferson23]

2. Fuckers. n/t

[geek tragedy]

3. though the author thinks that Buji will join the government in about 14-18 months

after his party's primary and 14 months of a fairly gruesome show from the governing axis of evil

[Jefferson23]

4. Gruesome is an apt word for what is coming and Buji has no interest in a viable

state for the Palestinians. I say this as his own words have made that clear.

[shira]

5. Absurd: "Buji has no interest in a viable state for the Palestinians."

I say this as his own words have made that clear.

Please quote those words.

[azurnoir]

7. Bibi, Buji Both Want Israel to Keep It All

Demilitarizing the Palestinian state, keeping the settlement blocs in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank] under Israeli sovereignty; strengthening Jerusalem and its status as the eternal capital of the State of Israel and ensuring religious freedom and access to the holy sites to all religions, along with maintaining Israeli sovereignty; resolution of the Palestinian refugee problem through the establishment of a Palestinian state and not within Israel.

Which settlement blocs? When, at an event hosted by the Jerusalem Post, he was asked what land he would keep, Herzog replied, "in the ideal world, I would like to keep it all." But he said he would keep the Gush Etzion, Ma'aleh Adumim and Ariel blocs, and that the Jordan River would be his" security border."

No Palestinian right of return, no evacuation of the settlement blocs (or even a nominal return to the Green Line, which is the starting point of the Arab Peace Initiative), Jerusalem as "the eternal capital of Israel." What has changed here from the map produced by Ehud Barak, except of course that Herzog rejects a nominal right of return to the Israel of 1948? And Gaza -- no change there -- is out of the picture until Hamas has been demilitarized.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-hearst/bibi-bougie-both-want-isr_b_6886404.html

[shira]

9. That's the proof? Herzog's plan looks the same as the Clinton Initiatives of 1999-2000

The same plan Arafat later regretted rejecting....
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jun/22/israel

Seemed like a good deal to Arafat. Why is it not good enough now?

[geek tragedy]

11. No, those didn't include Ariel. Israel built that colony right on top of an aquifer so it could

steal Palestine's ground water.

They figure they stole that water and land fair and square, so they'll never give it up.

[azurnoir]

18. what Clinton Initatives do you mean Taba?

[shira]

30. The Clinton Initiatives were accepted by Israel a month earlier than Taba. n/t

[azurnoir]

25. well then why did Israel refuse? Because your link proves ultimately Israel rejected it not Arafat

[shira]

27. Sharon rejected it. Offer died when Barak and Clinton were finished w/ their terms.

Arafat had his chance with 2 leaders committed to a Palestinian state, but he blew it, and got Sharon as a result....

He chose poorly.

[geek tragedy]

10. yeah, the Ariel bloc is a literal middle finger to the two-state solution nt

[shira]

12. Face it, no Israeli proposal will ever be good enough for you.

In fact, what does Israel need to agree to in order for them to be taken seriously in your opinion?

Be specific and clear please.

Thanks.

[geek tragedy]

14. 1) stop all construction on the Palestinian side of the Green line

2) forcibly evacuate ALL of the illegal settler outposts

Then we'll know they're serious as opposed to faking it and negotiations will have a point.

[shira]

16. Thanks. But what's so sacred about the 1948 armistice lines? Tell me.

Both sides agreed at the time that the green line shouldn't be considered a border.

Your position is even more extreme than that of the PA or Saudi Peace Plan. They've agreed to land swaps.

[geek tragedy]

17. I'm not saying immediately withdraw. I'm saying stop expanding those illegal settlements

If Israel is not willing to stop the theft of additional Palestinian land, it sure as shit is not going to be willing to give any of it back.

[shira]

19. You're contradicting yourself, but first - Bibi stopped with all construction...

The PA refused to negotiate until the butt end of that 10 month moratorium, the first of its kind. But it worked for them, as they proposed another 10 months of the same. Another problem is that settlements don't expand. They grow within EXISTING settlement blocs, making them more dense than they were before. But they don't grow outward.

Now here's where you contradicted yourself...

2) forcibly evacuate ALL of the illegal settler outposts

So that means you want all settlers behind the '67 lines. Right? Again I ask what makes those lines sacred? And why is your position more extreme than that of the PA or Arab Peace Initiative? Since they support land swaps.

[geek tragedy]

20. are you aware that many settlements in the West Bank are considered illegal

by the Israeli government?

[shira]

21. So only those should be evacuated? In that case I agree with you....

But it appeared to me you think ALL settlements are illegal.

[geek tragedy]

22. Those that ISRAEL ITSELF considers illegal should be evacuated ASAP.

That is a necessary, but not sufficient, step.

If Israel keeps ALL of the settlements it considers legal, a Palestine state is impossible.

The Clinton plan you like to tout called for Ariel to be evacuated.

[shira]

23. "If Israel keeps ALL of the settlements it considers legal, a Palestine state is impossible."

So do we agree that if Israel keeps some or most, a Palestinian state is still possible? After all, the Arab Peace Initiative calls for land swaps and Abbas says he'd roll with that.

[geek tragedy]

24. Some, yes. nt

[Israeli]

33. Not going to happen ....

...the Two State Solution is over .....its done its dead .

Tomorrow belongs to Bibi and Bennet :

http://peacenow.org.il/eng/BibiBanay

[geek tragedy]

6. there are very few in Israel who WANT a Palestinian state.

an old joke I've heard from Israelis comes to mind--paraphrasing from memory--"a giant asteroid is heading for Earth. So there's good news and bad news. Bad news is everyone on Earth will perish. Good news is that there won't be a Palestinian state."

The only reason it gets even lip service is the notion that it's something Israel has to let happen, because the consequences of Israel not letting it happen are much worse.

Right now, most Israelis just don't see the down side of never allowing a Palestinian state as being worse than the downside of allowing one.

[Jefferson23]

8. lol that joke gets to the heart of their blindness, as crude as it is.

A bantustan is not a viable state and that would be perfectly fine for the
majority of Israeli citizens. I suspect we'll see that word redefined to personify
paradise at some point.

[shira]

15. Bantustan? Not the Clinton Initiatives. Try again? n/t

[Israeli]

35. " A bantustan is not a viable state " ......

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/people-and-politics-sharon-s-bantustans-are-far-from-copenhagen-s-hope-1.10275

The conversation quickly turned to the conciliatory interviews Prime Minister Ariel Sharon gave to the press for their Independence Day editions. One of the Israelis, of the type for whom it's second nature, no matter who is in government, to explain and defend Israeli policy, expressed full confidence in Sharon's peace rhetoric. He said the prime minister understands the solution to the conflict is the establishment of a Palestinian state beside Israel.

The former premier from the Italian left said that three or four years ago he had a long conversation with Sharon, who was in Rome for a brief visit. According to D'Alema, Sharon explained at length that the Bantustan model was the most appropriate solution to the conflict.

Read it all Jefferson.

[Jefferson23]

37. Thank you for that, Israeli..I appreciate it.

I would say it is a model for disaster, but that should be obvious to almost anyone..look, they
even know it. They just don't give a damn.

[shira]

13. No, there are very few who WANT a Palestinian State at the expense of a Jewish one. n/t

[azurnoir]

26. weren't you telling us how everything west of the Jordan River is the Jewish Homeland?

Israel isn't illegally colonizing Palestinian lands. Jews have a right to live there. Everything west of the Jordan is still the Jewish homeland. That's international law, making it legal. Until that's overturned, it'll remain legal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=102241

[shira]

28. Yeah, so? What are you getting at? n/t

[azurnoir]

29. Nothing for me to get at, it seems you've gotten "there" all by your onesie

[shira]

31. Let me guess what you're thinking since you won't be straightforward with me...

Always writing in code...

You think that because everything west of the Jordan is enshrined in Law as the Jewish homeland, that people like myself are against a 2 state peace plan?

Nope.

Despite that fact and thousands of years of history and culture in the W.Bank, we're willing to give up all claims there in order to get a peaceful 2 state solution going.

[azurnoir]

32. are you an Israeli citizen shira?

[Israeli]

36. She is an American ....

.....with her head stuck in the sand .

None so blind as those who cannot see azurnoir.

Now that the Two State Solution is officially over ....what is the alternative ?

[azurnoir]

38. That's what I thought

[shira]

39. Why? You don't think that's what most Israeli Jews for 2-states think?

Oh right, you think "Israeli" here speaks for most Israelis.

[azurnoir]

40. No it was this part of comment

Despite that fact and thousands of years of history and culture in the W.Bank, we're willing to give up all claims there in order to get a peaceful 2 state solution going.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=102355

"we're" if your not an Israeli citizen what do you mean by we're, as it seems you're American isn't that just a tad presumptuous?

eta this is not a dual loyalty thing it's more assuming that you can speak for the citizens of Israel

[shira]

41. "We"? Jews share a common bond with each other, from all across the world....

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2015, 09:11 PM - Edit history (1)

From religious Jews to atheist Jews.

Have you ever noticed that?

Whether outsiders care to agree or not, we consider ourselves a people/nation. Much like native American First Nations living outside North America, who feels that bond with their people living in the USA/Canada.

Like native Americans, we share a common ancestry, history, culture, traditions, language, etc... Israel was and still is our Jewish homeland and has been for ages, before any other country in this world existed in its current form. The vast majority of Jews believe in 2 states so long as it results in genuine peace.

Are you not aware of Jewish history in Judea/Samaria? Or East Jerusalem? Most of us are willing to give all that up for peace. That's something all our ancestors had been yearning for for over 2000 years. I don't know of any other people or nation on this planet - ever - that would be willing to do that for hope of peace.

Know why most Jews are liberal? Whether within Israel or outside? Common history, common experiences. Mostly bad. None of us want that happening to anyone else. Then there's tolerance. We know what being intolerant is all about based on the past. It's why most of us can't vote Republican, Conservative, Rightwing. It'd be a betrayal of basically everything that ever happened to our ancestors.

[azurnoir]

43. I notice I hear it quite a bit however opinions within a group may vary greatly

[Israeli]

44. You might in America shira ....

....but its not like that in Israel.

That is why you have such problems trying to adjust to life over here .

The division in this country is immense ....the absolute hatred between religious and secular is just the tip of the iceberg , add to that the Ashkenazi/Sephardi divide , the way the Russian and Ethiopian new immigrants are treated ...and I havent even mentioned the political divide between Left and Right for gods sake .

The day we have peace with the arabs is the day we turn on each other .

Its a shame nobody told Jonathan Pollard the facts of life instead of your fantasy ...he could have saved himself a whole load of grief.

[oberliner]

45. Have you been to America?

We have similar divisions unfortunately.

[Israeli]

47. No oberliner....

I've been to Europe a few times on holiday ....my son's Bar Mitzvah gift from the whole family was a trip to Disney World in Paris ....was torture for my husband and I but he and his sister loved it .
Been to London with my daughter for a week ...more torture ...shops and more shops.
Spent two weeks in Holland with my husband and another time two weeks in Scotland ...no kids .
Was fantastic ...beautiful countries , beautiful people .

Apart from that have never left the middle east in 64 years .

[shira]

46. Divisions aside, it's the existential threats bonding all of us together. n/t

Last edited Fri May 1, 2015, 07:42 AM - Edit history (1)

[Israeli]

48. That is pure Bibi shira ...

....which is why probably he is so popular amongst you Americans .

[shira]

49. That denial is why post- & anti- Zionist Jews account for way less than 1% of all Jews. n/t

[Israeli]

50. You are really good at throwing .....

.....numbers and percentages around shira .....without facts to back them up .

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

51. Perhaps, if you were to understand such things,

what azurnoir means is that the colonizer's mind is a narrow one without the ability to function in a wider universe.

[Israeli]

34. Correct . nt.

[Little Tich]

42. One more step toward the Apartheid State, check...

This is bad news, but not unexpected. I think Netanyahu is the linchpin without whom the transition from a Jewish and Democratic state to only a Jewish State would be almost impossible.

Is BDS stronger than Netanyahu and his one-state solution? I have my doubts.