Supporters gather for pro-Israel demonstratio

[King_David]

West Bloomfield resident Jesse Arm, 16, stands tall during the 2013 Walk for Israel. (File photo by Donna Agusti )

WEST BLOOMFIELD — For 10 years, Israel supporters from across Michigan and even into Ohio have gathered along Orchard Lake Road in solidarity.

The annual Walk for Israel and 5K Family Fun Run has continued to grow year after year, and organizers are expecting to exceed 2,000 Israel supporters — both Jewish participants and non-Jewish demonstrators — for the 2015 walk.

The 2015 Walk for Israel and 5K Family Fun Run will take place May 17. Runners will take their first strides at 8 a.m., and the Walk for Israel will commence at 1:30 p.m. Both events kick off at Temple Shir Shalom, 3999 Walnut Lake Road in West Bloomfield, and travel south on Orchard Lake Road before returning to Temple Shir Shalom. Security detail and traffic guidance will be provided by the West Bloomfield Police Department while walkers cross Orchard Lake Road.


http://www.candgnews.com/news/supporters-gather-pro-israel-demonstration-83338

[atreides1]

1. What would be impressive?

Is if this same group would do the same in support of the working poor, and our own President!!!

[King_David]

2. How do you know they don't?

Assuming most are Jewish - 80% of American Jews support the Democratic Party.

[Scootaloo]

3. People who rally for an oppressor rarely care about the oppressed

It's as true for Democrats as it is for Republicans.

[King_David]

4. The Rally is for Israel

nobody is surprised at your response .

[Scootaloo]

5. I know it is

And I know you don't give a flying fuck, but Israel is oppressing people.

[King_David]

6. I ain't gonna dignify that disgusting uncivil post with a reply

[Scootaloo]

7. Well, you certainly have no means of refuting it.

[King_David]

9. There's a difference between the Government of Israel and the Jewish state

But those that see no difference have been hating both and the concept for centuries.

[Scootaloo]

10. No, "states" are legal entities defined by their governments.

Perhaps you are looking for "nation"? if you're confusing the two nouns, that would actually explain an awful lot!

At any rate. Israel oppresses people, and you don't give a fuck.

[Scootaloo]

12. Well, DO you give a fuck that Israel oppresses people?

I mean hey, maybe we've been miscommunicating this whole time because you have been using "state" to mean "nation," maybe we've been fucking up elsewhere, too.

So, do you?

[King_David]

13. Very soon

[Scootaloo]

14. So... no?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. It appears that two things are true here...

1) You are not able answer scootaloo honestly, and

2) You may realize more hidden posts of your own if you continue attacking him and others, IMHO.

[Shaktimaan]

18. But are they defined by their governments' policies?

Is it possible for one to have supported America during WWII while also opposing the Japanese interment? Supporting a state and supporting a state's policies in their entirety are not equivalent.

[Scootaloo]

20. Yes, of course it's possible.

Is it possible for one to have supported America during WWII while also opposing the Japanese interment?

But expressing totally uncritical support is not actually opposing the bad policy, now is it?

Supporting a state and supporting a state's policies in their entirety are not equivalent.

The "support" given is blanket and uncritical.

[Shaktimaan]

17. That's quite a one dimensional view.

Especially in this case.

Considering how often an individual might support a nation while disagreeing with and/or working to change its policies, your assertion offers little supportive evidence.

Particularly in the case with US/Canadian jews, who have a long history of supporting worthy social movements alongside Zionism without contradictory feelings. My grandmother, for example, was both a card carrying, (and one time blacklisted) communist, as well as an ardent Zionist for many of her 100 years.

Your comment smacks of someone who has not had enough life experience to acknowledge realities beyond simple black and white.

[Scootaloo]

19. No, it's simply a practical one

A bunch of people get together to uncritically celebrate an oppressive state. It is a safe assumption that they do not give a fuck about the oppression.

And while I didn't know your grandmother, I do know that political party membership only means that you were a member of a political party, and nothing more. It brings no guarantees with it, you see?

[King_David]

8. WALK OR RUN IN 2015

http://www.walkwithisrael.com/

We are pleased to announce that for the first time ever, you will be able to register to RUN or WALK with Israel. UJA’s annual community fundraising event will take place on Monday May 18th, at Coronation Park.

Both the Run and Walk will share the same route through the streets of downtown Toronto, with runners departing shortly before the community Walk. Both routes are 6KM in length, and will culminate at the Ontario Place for the Renee & Irwin Nadal Festival.

[guillaumeb]

15. You do know that Toronto is in Ontario, correct?

And that Ontario is in Canada? Right next to that hotbed of anti-Semitism, Quebec. Will Pamela Geller be there with a sign talking about jihad?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

23. Outstanding, dave! The Gazans had the same opportunity just last year with Israel.

They had the option to walk or run for their lives as their homes were systematically bombed into dust.

But the ironic part is that everybody was entered into that race whether they wanted to take part or not.

There were no prizes, unless you can consider remaining intact as a prize while you watch your family incinerated before your eyes.




But happy on in the name of the Apartheid machine.

[geek tragedy]

28. Will the finish line say "Palestinian human rights"

so that participants can trample on them just like the Israelis do?

Maybe they'll find some Arab homes to bulldoze while chanting "I-D-F! I-D-F!"

[Little Tich]

16. Are all these people marching in support for racism?

I doubt there’s anyone at the demo who has any criticism for the new Israeli government. In fact, I doubt that most of them even know what the new government stands for. If they did, perhaps there would be less flag waving.

[leftynyc]

24. Interesting that you think

only supporters of the Palestinians are the only ones with a grasp of the situation over there - or EVERYONE ELSE would hate Israel like you seem to. Perhaps, like most Americans, these people who have been asked to take sides (like you expect them to) are showing which side they think has the better argument.

[Little Tich]

26. I think Israel is a cool country, with nice people,

and I appreciate the fact that Israel is still a democracy. The policies and laws of Israel are racist however, and some ministers are more racist than Pamela Geller, and I'm against all that. Just because I'm against Israel's policies, doesn't mean that I'm pro-Palestinian. This is not a Wenn diagram. I'm simply opposed to the bad things and support the good things, regardless of side.

I think the timing of the demonstration is bad, it's like they are cheering for the new government. It would be better if they were waving Israeli flags for Israel against Netanyahu. Now they just look like a bunch of racists who support Israel no matter what.

I have no illusions that pro-Palestinian activists are always right. I would probably clash with them a lot, simply because I'm not anti-Israel. I know that many people disagree with me, but as long I know I'm right it doesn't bother me.

As long as your posts are worth answering, I will respond.

[leftynyc]

27. No idea why you think these supporters

look like a bunch of racists. Did the people who waved Irish flags at NY's St. Patrick's parade look like terrorist supporters (IRA). Or those waving Palestinian flags at whatever parade - that that mean they were terrorist supporters? I think bibi is an asshole I still support Israel. The only people pretending people need to "take sides" are those that support Palestinians while ignoring all the problems with their leadership. I also think the BDS movement is completely full of shit.

[geek tragedy]

30. Because they favor unconditional US support for

Israel no matter how hideously racist and ultra rightwing its government and policies are. Such blind, devotional support of that foreign country is, ideologically speaking, a rightwing political value.

They should be judged as white people cheering on apartheid South Africa would be.

[oberliner]

34. US allies didn't stop being allies when George W Bush became president

Even though he led a rightwing government and pursued rightwing policies including invading and occupying far away countries and killing countless civilians.

There were still millions of Americans who were worthy of respect and support.

[geek tragedy]

39. How many countries staged "We love the USA" rallies and berated their

leaders when their leaders were insufficiently obsequious to Bush?

[Little Tich]

35. I don't think you appreciate how dangerous the new government is,

and obviously neither do these Israel supporters. Once Israel goes apartheid, there's no going back.

[leftynyc]

36. Did apartheid South Africa

ever have black people in their government? I don't remember that. And I do think bibi is dangerous for Israel. I also know just how weak the new government is and suspect there will be calls for new elections before the year is out.

[Little Tich]

56. Israel is hovering just above the threshold for apartheid.

All that’s needed is one more step towards disenfranchising the Israelis who don’t have full (Jewish) citizenship. This can be done in several ways, including make new loyalty laws, building in the Negev, razing Arab communities, abolishing the independency of the High Court, exarcerbating the housing crisis for Israeli arabs, or cementing the legal second class status of non-jewish citizens in some other way.

[leftynyc]

57. "Could" "if"

You do realize you could be speaking about dozens of countries if you want to speculate like that. Start with the countries where you can, RIGHT NOW, get arrested and beaten for merely having a bible in your possession. And this would be why I consider I/P on DU to be nothing but a joke.

[azurnoir]

58. yes you gave your opinion of DU here, IMO it created more questions than it answered

Last edited Tue May 12, 2015, 06:11 AM - Edit history (1)

leftynyc (14,766 posts)
5. I WARNED both

my senators and representative to stay away from here, to never mention DU in any way, shape or form. It would have been disastrous for any one of them to be associated with some of the crap I've seen here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=96141

[leftynyc]

61. I stand by each and

every word in that post.

[Little Tich]

59. Ignorance is bliss.

Israel is unique among democracies, insofar as it has two types of citizenship. Jewish Israelis all have citizenship by the Law of Return, which confers full rights, and non-Jewish citizens have a partial citizenship that only gives them basic, but still adequate rights for a democracy. The problem is that the last and the current government under Netanyahu has nibbled away at these basic rights that the non-Jewish citizens enjoy.

Eventually, when the non-Jewish citizens of Israel don't have all the basic rights they should have, Israel becomes an apartheid state.

[Israeli]

60. If you consider ....

"" I/P on DU to be nothing but a joke. ""

Then why are you here leftynyc ?

Quote : " for merely having a bible in your possession. "

Oops ....

[leftynyc]

62. To let you know

that you don't speak for the majority of Americans or even for the majority of Democrats. I'll remind you of that every single day.

[Israeli]

63. You can remind me of that ...

.......every single minute of every single day .

And I in return will remind you .......that you dont speak for us American .

[leftynyc]

64. Knock yourself out

The clear and large majority of Americans support Israel. Instead of ignoring that and pretending otherwise, perhaps you can contemplate why it is. It would be a much better use of your time and may actually accomplish something.

[Israeli]

65. Which Israel leftynyc ???

My Israel ......or Bibi and Naftali Bennett's Israel ????

"The clear and large majority of Americans" that support Israel are as brainwashed as you are ,......with or without your bible .

I'm not ignoring that or pretending otherwise ....I dont need to " contemplate why it is "...it is what it is .

Honestly ....I think that "the clear and large majority of Americans" that support this gov. are a lot less than you imagine them to be, ...going by this forum .

Even if I'm wrong ......even if you could convince me that 99.9 % of Americans supported the occupation ....I would still be against it .

[leftynyc]

66. LOL

So everybody that doesn't agree with you about Israel is brainwashed? Good luck changing hearts and minds with that attitude. And BTW - using DU as a barometer for what Americans, or even Democrats, think is why your "side" doesn't get anywhere on this issue.

[Israeli]

67. My "side" .....

...is the side of anti -occupation leftynyc.....we used to be the side of " Peace " ....

[leftynyc]

68. This is the problem as I see it

People are expected to take "sides" on this issue - no gray area seems to exist. And this country has picked a side - our government has picked a side and the majority of American citizens have picked a side. So you can post your rolling eyes smilie as often as you wish - it doesn't change a damn thing when the choices are between the Israeli government - no matter who the PM is - and the Palestinian government - currently that's hamas for the Gazans and Abbas who has aligned with hamas on the other. Hamas is a terrorist organization and you can argue until you're blue in the face that's not the whole story but it is and it is because people like you want to ignore what hamas is all about. So keep posting on chat boards and protesting at universities - it hasn't changed a damn thing in decades because you ignore that which you find inconvenient to acknowledge. That's not my problem.

[Israeli]

69. I bow to your superior knowledge .....

......and I accept that its not your problem .

However .....I seriously doubt that the majority of humanity agrees with you .

BDS .

[leftynyc]

70. Hope your superior attitude

and humanity is keeping the Palestinians happy and warm. You STILL don't see the problems that you're helping to perpetuate. If you're expecting me to feel some guilt or shame for my support of Israel, don't hold your breath because that will never happen.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

21. I guess this is what they are marching for...

“Palestinians are beasts, they are not human.” — MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Aug 1, 2013. (Hebrew)

“A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.” — MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Dec 27, 2013. (Hebrew/English)

[oberliner]

25. Or this

"The Palestinians are our closest neighbors. I believe they may become our closest friends." - Shimon Peres (Jun 13, 2012)

Now, a young Arab generation has opened its eyes and stood up against oppression, poverty and corruption. They seek freedom. They need freedom. They understand that freedom begins at home. I pray for their success. I believe that their success may become the success of all of us. - Shimon Peres (former President of Israel)

[geek tragedy]

29. Peres is the past. Ben-Dahan is the one

in whom the government of Israel has entrusted to interface with the Palestinians on a daily basis.

[oberliner]

33. Let's hope his tenure is short and ineffective

However, I don't think it's fair to suggest that his remarks are representative of Israel as a whole.

[geek tragedy]

54. He does represent Israel as a whole--in him the state and people of Israel have vested

the power to control Palestinians' lives.

He is the literal representative of the Israeli people.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

55. If wishes were fishes...

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. Who holds power right now, ober?

Peres or the fascists?

[oberliner]

32. "The Arab Peace Initiative is alive and Israel should use it."

That's from Herzog, current MK and leader of the opposition.

I can also point you to other quotes supporting peace with and respect for the Palestinians from various current MKs.

When George W Bush was POTUS there was still more to the US than what he, Cheney, and Rumsfeld had to say.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

37. "There shall be no Palestinian state..."

-PM Netanyahu, Big Cheese, New Expansionist Fascists

[oberliner]

41. "I want a sustainable, peaceful two-state solution"

- PM Netanyahu (March 20, 2015)

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. Sounds like he's lying, but TY for carrying

the Likrud talking points.

[oberliner]

46. The quote game is stupid

That's my point. See my response to you below. If you want me to post a bunch of hateful things that current Hamas and Fatah leaders have said, I can do that. But I am not claiming that Palestinian supporters are supporting those sentiments.

Let's find common ground.

We can agree, of course, that the current Israeli government is awful. Can we also agree that those who march in support of Israel are not doing so because they share the government's most right wing views? Similarly, those who march in support of the Palestinian cause are not doing so because they embrace the rhetoric of the elected Hamas leadership either.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

49. It sure is when some want to back crazy.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

38. Quote by Ayelet Shaked...aka evil

“Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”

[oberliner]

42. That's a lie

This is not a quote by Shaked. It's a quote from Uri Elitzur who died last year.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

45. It was posted on her Facebook page, ober.

Deal with it.

She may be attractive, but within lies a heart black as coal.

And TY again for defending an Israeli right-winger.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. Quote by walking bigot, MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Daha...

“Palestinians are beasts, they are not human.” — MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Aug 1, 2013. (Hebrew)

“A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.” — MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Dec 27, 2013. (Hebrew/English)

These are the people in government now, ober.
So go ahead and post some more feel-good happy dance BS.

I'm sure they will be as hollow as the fascists quotes I have posted are pure evil.

[oberliner]

43. The quote game is a silly one

Palestinian and Israeli religious figures, many of whom are in their respective government, have said some pretty awful things about one another.

My point is that you can support Israel without supporting the sentiments behind those awful quotes.

Just like you can be a Palestinian supporter without supporting the nasty things that elected Hamas leaders have said.

[840high]

47. Agree.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

48. I'm sure that must be the sentiment for some since

the horse they are backing has a rider who is stark raving mad. So instead they look for small tidbits of cover to make the rider look normal when in fact there is a calvary of crazy coming up right behind.

Israel is a great, warm, fuzzy, cute little country that apparently happens to be filled with morally bankrupt Kahanists...but oooh what great dance clubs they have!

[oberliner]

50. Israelis and Palestinians have both elected some very right-wing leaders

One can support Israelis and Palestinians in spite of the rhetoric of the right-wingers they have elected into positions of power.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

51. You do understand that Israel is going to authorize annexation, right?

That's their proposal. Things are going to get worse for Palestinians and a majority if Israelis voted for it.

So if you support these Israelis then you also support their politics.

[oberliner]

52. That won't happen

The government is held together by a thread. That would be its undoing.

Think of it as supporting Democrats while Bush and co. were in power (and Repubs controlled the Congress).

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

53. Wow. I am amazed at how easily you believe that.

Talk about being led around by the nose.