Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumFamilies in Khuza’a forced to live in shipping containers as politics prevent Gaza reconstruction -
Dan Cohen on May 11, 2015
Ahmads father Youssef Najjar, 46, mostly blind and afflicted with nerve damage, stood over his mother and broke into tears. In this caravan, our life is all about suffering, he sighed.
Seventy-four other families, mostly from the larger Najjar family live in the caravan as well. Makeshift pathways have been cleared through the rubble, and the biggest chunks were piled up to form a massive hill where a tent sits on top and overlooks the grey moonscape of destruction. In the distance one can see Khuzaas farmland and Israeli towns across the border, as well as intermittent Israeli pillboxes equipped with remote-control machine guns aiming into Khuzaa.
With their lives hanging by threads, the families living in the caravan are among the most vulnerable Palestinians in the besieged Gaza Strip. Every day is a crisis, and each season brings new difficulties which the residents are ill-equipped to confront.
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/containers-politics-reconstruction?utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=5f3eabcb8b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b86bace129-5f3eabcb8b-398492069
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)It's just a matter of priorities.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)why waste it while fueling Hamas fantasies of attacking Israel. The UN needs to control the aid.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But good job pretending history started immediately after that was finished.
hack89
(39,171 posts)but you knew that.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)How is it that Israel "knows" these houses they destroyed had tunnels under them... but doesn't know where the exits are? Wouldn't it make more sense to let Hamas just prairie dog all over Gaza if they want, and just manage the exits? I mean that's the threatening point.
And what about the thousands of homes bombed, along with apartment complexes, schools, hospitals, and all sorts of various other buildings?
No Hack, these tunnels are just the latest of a bunch of lame excuses used to justify a needless massacre and resultant deprivation. "There's a guy on the roof!" is no excuse to drop megatonnage on a school, and "there might have been tunnels!" is not an excuse to flatten an entire residential neighborhood.
Israel bombed the schools and power plants and hospitals and flattened entire neighborhoods to punish the people of Gaza. These aren't defensive measures. They aren't preventative. They're simply mass reprisal and revenge.
hopefully Hamas stops starting wars they can't win so the people of Gaza can rebuild.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)and give Hamas unfettered access to what ever they desire.
The result will be war (on the more equal terms you desire) but it will most likely be a definitive war that will settle the issue for once and for all.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You want Gaza to be peaceful? Bombing the shit out of it isn't going to do that. Starving it isn't going to do it. Shooting at Gazan farmers and fishermen trying to get by as they can isn't going to do that. Shelling children playing soccer on a beach isn't going to do it. Giggling about strangling Arabs isn't going to do it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)the real solution is to crush Hamas.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Now, it does crush a lot of people - very literally. But it doesn't really hurt Hamas as an organization. In fact the only way that you will get rid of Hamas, or similar organizations using these methods, is to annihilate every human being in Gaza.
because by targeting the entire population of Gaza with the blockades, by massacring them with the "overwhelming indiscriminate response" methods of the Dahiya doctrine, you take the fight away from Hamas, and instead make it a war against every person living there. This actually has the counter-effect of making Hamas look like heroes. They are perceived as waging a defensive war, because of Israel's targeting methods ("if it's in Gaza, it's a target." Essentially, because Israel is destroying everything else, Hamas is left looking like a heroic point of stability within Gaza. And so people will rally around it, strengthening the organization.
You want to "crush Hamas"? You target its strengths. And military capability is not Hamas' strength. They fight with exhaust-propelled pipe bombs for fuck's sake. No, you target their central status in Gazan society. And the main reason for that centrality is desperation among the people of Gaza. You take away the desperation, you strip Hamas of its major recruiting tool. You allow for alternative options for power, for food and transit, and Hamas either has to cede those grounds or significantly alter itself.
Pounding the shit out of Gaza doesn't work. it hasn't worked. it won't work. because it can't work. if you have any actual interest in seeing hamas go down, you have to support removing the conditions that allow them to prosper.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Last edited Wed May 13, 2015, 10:03 PM - Edit history (2)
that only leads to a bigger war in the future. Unfortunately the needs of the people of Gaza diverge from the desires of Hamas. Hamas does not want a peaceful and prosperous Gaza economically integrated into the Israeli economy. They would rather the people live in fear of them and in abject poverty rather than normalize relationships with Israel. They will not allow "alternative options for power, for food and transit." Why should they - by your own admission it would weaken their hold on power. They have an apocalyptic world view centered on conflict with Israel - they will not waiver from that. They will use what ever means they have to retain control of Gaza. Yours is pipedream - at best it would result in bloody civil war as Gazan kills Gazan.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Not only is it unseemly to have destitute people living in ruins just a few miles south of Tel Aviv, it also makes the people living in the ruins more prone to extremism.
hack89
(39,171 posts)yes, Gaza should be rebuilt. But until there are safeguards in place to ensure Hamas does not divert aid to rebuild their military infrastructure (including tunnels into Israel), it may may not be in Israel's interest at all. What is needed is for the UN to supervise the aid.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)One wonders which Palestinian leaders the Mondoweiss folks actually support. We know they don't like Fatah - and the PA government.