Obama equates Israel’s creation to African-Americans gaining right to vote

[oberliner]

President Obama gave another interview to Jeffrey Goldberg, at the Atlantic. Top billing for the Iran deal. The president says “Jeff” more than he says “Palestinian” (6-4), mentions checkpoints and restrictions on Palestinians travel, exhibits pique toward Goldberg and Israel supporters for suggesting he should keep his differences with Israel private, says he loves Israel because it’s “a genuine democracy” and “a Jewish-majority democracy,” “and I care deeply about preserving that Jewish democracy,” but applauds Mandela for pointing the way to “a multiracial democracy emerging in South Africa.”

And this about anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. If you don’t think Israel has a right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people, you’re anti-Semitic.

Goldberg: I know that you’ve talked about this with Jewish organizations, with some of your Jewish friends—how you define the differences and the similarities between these two concepts.

Obama: You know, I think a good baseline is: Do you think that Israel has a right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people, and are you aware of the particular circumstances of Jewish history that might prompt that need and desire? And if your answer is no, if your notion is somehow that that history doesn’t matter, then that’s a problem, in my mind. If, on the other hand, you acknowledge the justness of the Jewish homeland, you acknowledge the active presence of anti-Semitism—that it’s not just something in the past, but it is current—if you acknowledge that there are people and nations that, if convenient, would do the Jewish people harm because of a warped ideology. If you acknowledge those things, then you should be able to align yourself with Israel where its security is at stake, you should be able to align yourself with Israel when it comes to making sure that it is not held to a double standard in international fora, you should align yourself with Israel when it comes to making sure that it is not isolated.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/creation-african-americans#sthash.YrEfpf7P.dpuf

[geek tragedy]

1. Israel started off with such aspirations.

Now they're more Botha than Mandela, their leaders are Lester Maddox and George Wallace, not MLK and John Lewis.

[oberliner]

2. Quite the opposite

They have successfully achieved those noble early aspirations. Much like Mandela and MLK.

The precarious situations the Jews found themselves in in the 1940's is no longer a current reality, and the Zionist movement can certainly take a lot of the credit for rescuing numbers of Jews from their deaths and for building a Jewish homeland where Jews can freely be Jews, something that had not always been possible across much of the world for centuries prior.

Now, however, they are faced with dealing with the complicated reality that comes after such victories.

[geek tragedy]

3. Israel succeeded as a nationalist project designed to protect one ethnicity/race/religious group.

It has done so by stepping on the throats of other, less favored groups.

Modern day Israel has more in common with the police of Selma than the protestors.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/survey-most-israeli-jews-wouldn-t-give-palestinians-vote-if-west-bank-was-annexed.premium-1.471644

The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.

A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank.

A sweeping 74 percent majority is in favor of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. A quarter - 24 percent - believe separate roads are "a good situation" and 50 percent believe they are "a necessary situation."

Almost half - 47 percent - want part of Israel's Arab population to be transferred to the Palestinian Authority and 36 percent support transferring some of the Arab towns from Israel to the PA, in exchange for keeping some of the West Bank settlements.

Although the territories have not been annexed, most of the Jewish public (58 percent ) already believes Israel practices apartheid against Arabs. Only 31 percent think such a system is not in force here. Over a third (38 percent ) of the Jewish public wants Israel to annex the territories with settlements on them, while 48 percent object.

Moses has become Pharoah.

[oberliner]

4. There are Jews of many different races and ethnicities living in Israel

In fact, Israeli Jews come from nearly as many ethnicities as Americans.

Relationships between Jews and non-Jews in the region have always been tenuous at best, with Jews living as second-class citizens for generations throughout the Arab world, and, most recently, kicked out of their home countries in the region or made to feel dangerously unwelcome by states that consider themselves the champions of the Palestinian cause. And, as I am sure you know, that is much blatant anti-semitism throughout the West Bank and Gaza, in spite of the fact that the latter territory is entirely Jew-free.

Have you seen any similar surveys of Israeli Arabs? What percentage of them do you think don't want to live in the same building with Jews or have their children in the same classes with Jewish children? I would suggest that the numbers would be quite similar.

[geek tragedy]

5. Sure, just like in South Africa there were Afrikaaners and English

As long as you were white, you were all right.

If you were a Palestinian living in Gaza or the WB, how would you feel about Jews?

Pretty sad to be resorting to the reverse-racism argument.

[oberliner]

6. No, nothing at all like that

There were no black white people in South Africa. Israeli Jews are from a variety of different racial backgrounds. There is no way to possibly claim otherwise. There are close to a million Israeli Jews from Morocco, half a million from Iraq, another 300,000 from Yemen, and of course over 100,00 from Ethiopia.

If you were an Israeli living in Sderot or Ashkelon, how would you feel about Palestinians? If you were an Israeli who had a cousin blown up by a suicide bomber at a bus stop, how would you feel about Palestinians? Many still do not have prejudicial views in spite of such tragedies, just like many Palestinians in the West Bank do not hold prejudicial views towards Jews. But a lot do.

There is no reverse-racism argument here since neither being Jewish or non-Jewish has anything to do with race.

[geek tragedy]

7. A distinction without a difference.

People in Sderot have the option of moving to Tel Aviv. Palestinians are prisoners.

Moreover, they don't have Palestinian tanks blockading their roads, humiliating their men on a daily basis, preventing basic goods from being important to put the entire population "on a diet" etc etc.

There is no comparison--NONE--between the amount of suffering and terror inflicted by Jews onto Palestinians and vice versa in present-day Israel.

[oberliner]

10. "Terror inflicted by Jews onto Palestinians..."

Terror inflicted by Jews? Don't you mean by Israel?

[geek tragedy]

11. You're right, only robots drive those tanks and operate those bombers

and fire those missiles and run those checkpoints and live in those damn settlements.

[oberliner]

12. Robots?

Not sure what you are talking about.

You wrote: "Terror inflicted by Jews onto Palestinians..." - that's a direct quote (bolding added). Not Israelis, but Jews.

Ever heard of Yusef Mishleb?

[azurnoir]

8. The second Obama quote in full

Obama: You know, I think a good baseline is: Do you think that Israel has a right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people, and are you aware of the particular circumstances of Jewish history that might prompt that need and desire? And if your answer is no, if your notion is somehow that that history doesn’t matter, then that’s a problem, in my mind. If, on the other hand, you acknowledge the justness of the Jewish homeland, you acknowledge the active presence of anti-Semitism—that it’s not just something in the past, but it is current—if you acknowledge that there are people and nations that, if convenient, would do the Jewish people harm because of a warped ideology. If you acknowledge those things, then you should be able to align yourself with Israel where its security is at stake, you should be able to align yourself with Israel when it comes to making sure that it is not held to a double standard in international fora, you should align yourself with Israel when it comes to making sure that it is not isolated.

But you should be able to say to Israel, we disagree with you on this particular policy. We disagree with you on settlements. We think that checkpoints are a genuine problem. We disagree with you on a Jewish-nationalist law that would potentially undermine the rights of Arab citizens. And to me, that is entirely consistent with being supportive of the State of Israel and the Jewish people. Now for someone in Israel, including the prime minister, to disagree with those policy positions—that’s OK too. And we can have a debate, and we can have an argument. But you can’t equate people of good will who are concerned about those issues with somebody who is hostile towards Israel. And you know, I actually believe that most American Jews, most Jews around the world, and most Jews in Israel recognize as much. And that’s part of the reason why I do still have broad-based support among American Jews. It’s not because they dislike Israel, it’s not because they aren’t worried about Iran having a nuclear weapon or what Hezbollah is doing in Lebanon. It’s because I think they recognize, having looked at my history and having seen the actions of my administration, that I’ve got Israel’s back, but there are values that I share with them that may be at stake if we’re not able to find a better path forward than what feels like a potential dead-end right now.

- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/creation-african-americans#sthash.YrEfpf7P.aOlBVcNZ.dpuf

[oberliner]

9. Could not agree with him more

Hopefully Mondoweiss readers will be able to realize that Obama knows what he's talking about.