Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumNetanyahu aims his WMD at Obama and the Democrats
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/netanyahu-obama-democratsLast week, when it became clear he could not muster enough votes in the Senate to block a presidential veto, Netanyahu let fly one more punch. He observed that “the overwhelming majority of the American public sees eye-to-eye with Israel”, not their president.
According to polls, a narrow majority of Americans reject the Iran deal.
But ordinary Americans may be surprised to learn that Netanyahu’s hardline policy on Iran has long been viewed as implausible and counter-productive back home, among his own security officials.
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R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Barak’s leaked comments, meanwhile, have damaged everyone involved. The former defence minister has been publicly rebuked as a blabbermouth, and Netanyahu derided for being so ineffectual his cabinet spurned him at what he claimed to be the most fateful moment in Israel’s history.
As former foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman has noted, continuing leaks of high-level discord over Iran have made Israel look “ridiculous”.
But the tapes’ enduring significance – whatever embellishments Barak made in the telling – is that they confirm years of intimations from Israel’s security establishment that it stood firm against Netanyahu’s reckless approach on Iran.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Still good with dumping all of their garbage over here?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's like posting from a Kahanist site.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I usually see it is written at mondoweiss and think its not even worth the read since I am Jewish I know hate towards us when I see it.
I do not need other people telling me what is and what is not hateful toward myself.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)More of the same.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)my priorities are different than others.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Your style.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Presumably because you don't take anything seriously that comes from such a hateful source.
That's my view on Mondoweiss.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)murder to someplace else. It has been my experience that whenever a Palestinian is killed that the RW Kahanist Zionists attempt to blame the victim whereas the OP that I posted refers to what is common knowledge: Bibi Netanbooboo's continued animosity towards the present Democratic Admin and his apparent desire to attack the Persians.
So my OP is based in fact, and IMHO the lazy Kahanist opinion is built around a racist view of the "Evil Arab".
karynnj
(59,498 posts)distort or bias the information. I have no more problem with this OPINION piece being posted.
In fact, the things said here are better responded to to - than rejecting them because they come from a bad source. Nearly every point made has been said by people reading just mainstream US and (English) Israeli sources. I don't get why this can't lead to an examination of what Netanyahu has done, is doing and what he can do now. This is no different than how President Obama, Hillary Clinton etc are treated here.
As to sources, there are MANY MANY Israeli sources I would have consider beyond the pale because they have lied and smeared Secretary Kerry and President Obama had I used the same standards you are using. They actually contributed to damaging the reputation of the US administration.
shira
(30,109 posts)Look at this one from just a couple days ago...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134112238
That's straight out incitement from Mondoweiss.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)could have led to a pretty good conversation.
As this all reaches conclusion, it is likely that many many parts of the American Jewish community - from things as non controversial and mainstream as Hadassah (which put out a call to fight the deal (at least here in VT, where fortunately our delegation was solid.) to AIPAC, which invested a huge amount of money that could have been better spent and its reputation. Likewise, as this speaks of, Netanyahu may have to rethink his actions. It is clear that he is already back pedalling.
Frankly, I have seen outright hatred in many Jewish sources against Obama and Kerry -- including smears and lies. I also don't see anyone calling those sources "hate sites". That I care more when Obama and Kerry are smeared maybe means that I am a Jewish American -- not an American Jew. My primary allegiance is to the US and specifically to the current Democratic administration.
shira
(30,109 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)Perfect writer for Mondoweiss, right?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 10, 2015, 10:48 PM - Edit history (1)
thought by those that want to silence any criticism against Israel. It happens often, and there are some unscrupulous individuals in the world that want to label anything critical of Israel human rights abuses, illegal settlements, destruction of Palestinian or Bedouin property...even murder of Palestinians as either hate speech or anti-Semitism.
They can't win against BDS. They can't win against peace. They can't win against history.
But they will try to do everything in their power to attempt to silence the truth.
shira
(30,109 posts)http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-07-24/a-legal-and-moral-case-for-hamas-rocket-fire/
Classic.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)...who believes Hamas has a moral/legal right to fire rockets into Israel?
Cranks like Jonathan Cook are good for the BDS movement?
Seriously?
King_David
(14,851 posts)They have proven time after time their issue is with Jews and the existence of the Jewish state and has nothing to do with justice and occupation.
Surprised to find some support for it here in DU .... Usually seen on extremist right wing and extremist left sites.
And what most consider hate sites such as Mondoweiss.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)raise interesting questions on the morality of rich countries that have precise weapons vs those who don't possess them. In effect the rich countries can pinpoint their attacks, which still kill more than the intended targets, whereas the poorer countries have to do it the old fashioned way.
That's pretty much the extent of the blog opinion, shira.
But I guess that raises other questions as well. If you are so worried about morals then how does one justify any Israeli citizen steppin one foot outside of the nation of Israel and erecting an illegal colony on somebody else's property?
I could see how an apartheid sympathizer might not approve of such comparisons, but what about you?
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)You should know that by now.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I asked you specifically:
I could see how an apartheid sympathizer might not approve of such comparisons, but what about you?
procon
(15,805 posts)They point to Netanyahu as a "leader on the defensive", and call out "the premier’s political weakness". It was a tough assessment.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/netanyahu-tells-israel-he-won-iran-battle-with-obama-after-all
Obama is now in a much stronger position than he was when Netanyahu tried to interfere with American policies, and that may not serve Netanyahu well.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Netanyahu has seriously hurt himself with his actions; not just with Iran, but in the general way he has lobbied for Republicans from Mitt to accepting invitations to address congress that had not come from the WH.
His name is probably dog shit in the Oval Office.
Again, thanks for actually have the maturity to address the OP.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...of Americans reject the Iran deal."
Oh really?
Only 21% of Americans approve of the Iran Deal
http://www.businessinsider.com/only-21-of-americans-approve-of-the-iran-deal-2015-9#ixzz3lQjenXX0
The whole premise of this article is bullshit.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
You should really look for a lower poll, if you can find one, for effect that is.
shira
(30,109 posts)...that's short on facts. And written by a crackpot who believes Hamas has a moral and legal right to fire rockets into Israeli cities.
Nothing but the best from the ass hats @ Mondoweiss.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) 
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)karynnj
(59,498 posts)on this thread.
MANY of the polls taken could be called push polls. Pollingreport.com does a great job in listing the question asked. What was clear is that many times the question was asked in a way that biased the answer.
One that my husband called to my attention because he was stunned at the difference was where a pollster asked the question differently - splitting the sample in half. Yet, BOTH questions were at least subtly biased -- implying that the deal allowed a nuclear WEAPON program at some point -- when, in fact, it doesn't. Even with both questions written in a fashion that took more from Netanyahu's description than from Obama/Kerry/Moniz, one question was near 50%.
The reason the deal got 42 Senators was that they were willing to vote for it KNOWING WHAT IT DID in spite of nearly as many lying ads against it as were used by the SBVT in 2004! Not to mention any media source that followed the neo con foreign policy line - yes the NYT and the WP - had more writers pushing against it as for it. (Yes, like in 2002 -2003, there were editorials on our side, but reporting (if that is what you call what Judith Miller did) shaping the facts in support of the neo cons.
I would predict that by the end of this month - after the UN acts and many Americans realize for the first time that this was an international agreement and quite possibly after the Pope lauds the action during his visit here - the numbers will change pretty strongly in favor of the deal. (If Pope Francis, who already praised the deal soon after it was announced, publicly praises it as a step towards peace -- he easily trumps Netanyahu.)
