Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumArmed with rocks and knives, the children of Oslo come of age
This generation of Palestinian youth has been named the “children of Oslo” by Palestinian society. They were born after the Oslo agreements of 1993, and after the establishment of the Palestinian Authority. They have heard about the old model of the Israeli occupation, but don’t really know what it means. The Palestinian Authority, from their perspective, has been the government since before they were born, yet they view it with open contempt and suspicion.
...
“They assassinated my son in cold blood,” he said. “He worked with me as an electrician. In many places. We just did a project at Masmia Junction [near Ashdod], and before that in Ramat Gan. I’m telling you I don’t have a problem. I do work also in settlements, and anywhere I’m needed. I had to bring home a livelihood, and that’s what interested me. I have children to feed, and we’re refugees, we don’t have money. Our disaster began when they established the Palestinian Authority, that was the beginning of the problem. And I’m telling you, [Mahmoud] Abbas has to go home. To fall. And the people have to settle accounts with him. The Authority destroyed everything,” he said, and someone tried to explain that he was a grieving father speaking out of anger.
...
Baha, one of the more famous residents of the camp, tried to explain what must happen now: “Some things have to change. The current situation is impossible, and that’s especially true of the Jerusalem area. They have to decide once and for all what happens with us, with Shuafat and other places. Are we under the Authority or under Israel? But the current situation, where we’re under the government of nobody, has brought us to this point. Just decide. You decided to annex us to Israel [when Israel annexed East Jerusalem after the 1967 war], so bring us police and the municipality and everything else. And if not, let the Palestinian Authority rule here.”
Another cousin, Gustum Mohammed Ali, interrupted. “The Palestinian Authority? That’s nothing more than a ministry of the Israeli government. You think we trust them?”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/armed-with-rocks-and-knives-the-children-of-oslo-come-of-age/
And there's the Catch-22--the Israelis say they won't consider allowing a Palestinian state until the Palestinians choose leaders who show they can self-govern responsibly and respect Israel's right to exist. But such leaders cannot come into power under Oslo--only after the occupation is ended can the next generation's leaders emerge.
So, the Palestinian state was stillborn, and the Zionist state is terminally ill.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Literally Jews standing around praying is considered to be more egregious than any Israeli policy against Palestinians.
It reminds me of the reaction to the drawings of Mohammed.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that site was/is the Palestinians' last remaining vestige of respect and dignity
The Israelis have taken everything else away from them--their land, their hope, their freedom, their future, their personal dignity, etc etc etc.
Even the slightest hint that the Israelis take over that site by running the same playbook they ran in establishing an apartheid state in the West Bank would inevitably produce this result.
The Israelis' approach to the Palestinians is that of a constrictor snake--squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, never allowing any relief or gains--only taking away and suffocating.
When people are being choked to death, they flail.
The price for being the privileged class in an apartheid state is high, and this is the first very tiny price to be paid.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This is more upsetting than any of the various awful policies you've described.
This is what animates not just Palestinians but the entire Muslim world.
Jews standing around praying near (not inside) a mosque. (On a site that is considered by some to be the holiest site for Jews).
That is inspiring Palestinians to stab random Jews in the street.
That is inspiring accusations from far away capitals of Muslim-majority states that Jews are "desecrating" Islam.
A stronger reaction from the Muslim world than one sees in response to actual mosques being blown up with actual Muslims killed while praying inside of them.
Jews standing around praying near a mosque is worse than all of that.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)instead of playing the victim card on behalf of the privileged class of an apartheid state.
There are many clichés that can be used, since you apparently don't understand why gasoline drives a fire more than a match does, try this one:
the straw that broke the camel's back.
It is myopic, disingenuous hasbarist horseshit to pretend that Israelis mumbling on that site is what's really driving this outbreak of violence, and to pretend that having Israel's boots on Palestinians' throats for 50 years, with no plausible hope of things ever getting better, is playing no role, when that half-century of oppression is precisely what is really driving it.
Your commentary is no different than those who claim racial miniorities in the US riot over minor provocations.
The Palestinians are prisoners in their own country, and the Israelis are their jailers. That's what is driving this.
shira
(30,109 posts)...just as Arafat's uncle and Hitler's friend & ally the Grand Mufti al-Husayni did back in the 1920's and 30's.
The reason why "Hasbarists" don't listen to you & don't give a crap what you say is because you don't know the history of anti-Jew hatred that preceded the founding of Israel by at least 2 decades. The hatred that led to the '67 war, well before the occupation or settlements.
You simply don't get it.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)
6chars
(3,967 posts)so obviously Jews praying merits more outrage than ISIS beheading innumerable innocents.
"The Al-Aqsa (Mosque) is ours, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is ours, and they (Jews) have no right to defile it with their filthy feet. We will not allow them to, and we will do everything in our power to protect Jerusalem. We bless every drop of blood that has been spilled for Jerusalem, which is clean and pure blood, blood spilled for Allah, Allah willing. Every martyr will reach Paradise, and everyone wounded will be rewarded by Allah" - Mahmoud Abbas
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)be more willing to believe you when you claim you want peaceful co-existence rather than control and domination.
But, predictably, Team Israel-Is-Never-Wrong will play the victim card here.
shira
(30,109 posts)Nor was it there in 1967. It's not there now either...
How do you expect serious people who know the history there to listen to you when you know nothing about the situation?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)usually depending on age and gender sometimes across the board, there is nothing innocent in Israel's actions here and IMO Palestinians see it as one more move in the on going "Judaisation" of East Jerusalem
shira
(30,109 posts)....and as a result the situation is hopeless & who can blame the Palestinians?
The Palestinians have rejected their own state repeatedly since 1937. Putting all the land of Jordan into the equation along with the W.Bank and Gaza Strip gives Palestinians 80% of what was Palestine a century ago under British Mandate.
The problem, as it has been for 100 years, is the Palestinian refusal to acknowledge a Jewish state on even 1 square mile of territory.
Israel has already demonstrated via the Sinai 1981, Lebanon 2000, and Gaza 2005 (along with multiple 2 state offers since 2000) that their goal isn't to "steal land", but rather give it up for the hope of peace.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)an underlying factor?
Rallying for al Aqsa could be just a pretext of sorts for other grievances.