David Palumbo-Liu: What's Behind the Explosions of Violence in Palestine?

[Little Tich]

Source: Huffington Post, 15 October 2015

The Destruction of Religious Sites and "Extrajudicial Executions" of Palestinian Teenagers

If what we see going on in Israel-Palestine is not yet a third Intifada, one may not be far off. As presented in the mainstream press, the stabbings of Israeli settlers, the rock-throwing, the mass uprisings, all seem chalked up to some inexplicable proclivity toward violence on the part of Palestinians. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that this wave of violence comes in response to an on-going campaign to desecrate and destroy holy sites that anchor non-Jewish peoples to their faiths -- not only are mosques being destroyed, so too are Catholic churches.

Most egregiously, Israeli groups are attempting to replace the al-Aqsa mosque with a Jewish temple. In mid-September "Israeli forces entered the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound's southern mosque on Tuesday sparking the third straight day of violent clashes at the third holiest site in Islam. Dozens of Palestinians were injured in the clashes, during which Israeli forces fired stun grenades, tear gas canisters and rubber-coated steel bullets at Palestinian worshipers." These efforts are part of what is called "temple activism."

Parallel to the illegal destruction of Palestinian homes and the building of settlements, what we find here is the destruction and appropriation of holy sites.

It is important to note that this purposeful destruction of religious institutions continues a process we witnessed during Israel's attack on Gaza last summer:

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-palumboliu/whats-behind-the-explosio_b_8298362.html?ir=Australia

[oberliner]

1. "the destruction and appropriation of holy sites...`"

Palestinians Burn Jewish Holy Site in West Bank as Clashes Kill 4

JERUSALEM — Dozens of Palestinians set fire at dawn on Friday to a holy site known as Joseph’s Tomb, in the Palestinian Authority-controlled city of Nablus in the West Bank, damaging the tiny stone compound that many Jews believe is the burial place of the son of the biblical patriarch Jacob.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/world/middleeast/palestinians-israel-west-bank-violence.html?_r=0

Palestinians seek to claim Western Wall is part of Al-Aqsa compound

Six Arab states are set to submit a proposal on behalf of the Palestinians to the UN’s cultural body to officially claim the Western Wall as part of Al-Aqsa Mosque compound (the Temple Mount), Israel’s Ynet news website reported Friday.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-seeking-to-claim-western-wall-as-part-of-al-aqsa-mosque/

[shira]

2. This article is a complete joke. Some of the HuffPo talkbacks...

This is literal bullshit. I am in Israel right now and not a single person is suggesting knocking down any religious sights. Hell Jews aren't even allowed to pray there, how exactly are they supposed to have enough access to tear it down?!

Wow! Simply wow! This is the kind of propogandist crap one might expect to find in Electronic Intifada. How far is HuffPost will to go to chime their narrative? "Most egregiously, Israeli groups are attempting to replace the al-Aqsa mosque with a Jewish temple". Yes. Marginal extremist groups, heavily criticized in Israel, even by Hasidic Jews... This is exactly the sort of inciteful lies Palestinians are telling themselves and the world. It's 2-cent journalism at best. Shame on this site for publishing such biased, inciteful nonesense.

How is thís artícle any different than shouting fire in a crowded theater? Given that íts sole mission is to protect the Haram al-Sharif complex, one would think the Wàqf might have a single surveillance camera with which to substantiate its claims. Maybe a cellphone (they're really inexpensive these days) to take pictures of an àl-Åqsà mósque in the process of being déstròyed by the IDF? Thís is as írréspònsíble as jòurnàlism gets. Seríously. Húman beings have been kílling ínnócent hùman beíngs over THÍS EXACT mísinformation. Shäme.

The author is misleading. The religious sites he mentions are only in Gaza, which was the site of a military conflict. And he cites no proof they were deliberately targeted. He also omits mention of deliberate acts of religious destruction by Muslims. From www.camera.org: "In 2013, more than 200 terror attacks occurred at Rachel's Tomb in Bethlehem, where the Jewish matriarch Rachel is said to be buried—119 of those attacks included the use of explosives at the sacred site.

"This was not the first attack on the tombs of Joseph and Rachel. In October 2000—during the wave of organized Palestinian violence called the second intifada—rioters set fire to Joseph's Tomb and purposefully destroyed Jewish prayer books there and murdered an Israeli border policeman and Rabbi Hillel Lieberman. Rachel's Tomb was attacked with firebombs and automatic weapons.

During the course of the second intifada, Jewish worshippers at the Western Wall—a sacred site in Judaism—were stoned by Arab mobs. The latter occurred again this year, just before the Jewish holidays--and is the actual start of the current intifada because heaven forbid somebody besides Muslims should be allowed to pray.

I'm surprised at Huff Post for even printing this. This article is not about different views on a subject. It's about using big fat lies and made up facts to support a cause. Outrageous

This is an apalling article. A travesty of the truth and I condemn Huffington Post for publishing it. It also brings no glory to Stanford University where the author David palumbo Liu is a tenured professor. Here is another article that spreads more light on the subject. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/194219/big-knives-and-bad-ideas

Wow this is some insane propaganda I expect it on Electric Intifada or distributed by Students for Justice in Palestine or some other Jew-hate group, but this is almost too far for Huffington Post.

[shira]

3. Tich - this article is a complete 180 to what you posted just days ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134115408

But pieces such as Barghouti’s and Levy’s do more than just explain Palestinian violence in the context of the occupation. Explanation moves quickly into justification. In many of these op-eds, it follows that if one recognises that the occupation is the core motive behind the stabbings, then terrorism is merely a functional response. Terrorism is not condemned, but rather seen as the inevitable output of the structural logic of the occupation.

It’s Newton’s third law of Palestinian stabbings. The occupation is the action, terrorism is the reaction. Nothing else occurs within this logic, and no other causes of violence are deemed important. This neutral functionalism, where the terrorist is solely and exclusively the product of occupation, absolves the terrorist from any moral judgement. Occupation and terrorism is understood exclusively as action and reaction and nothing more. Under this argument, it doesn’t make sense to condemn a causal inevitability. The terrorist is not condemned for murder in the same way that a balloon isn’t condemned for popping under pressure. Both are the inevitable reaction to the initial action.

[Little Tich]

5. I don't see the two points of view expressed in the OPs as being mutually exclusive.

Cause and justification aren't the same thing, and I don't think that Palumbo-Liu is actually justifying violence, he's merely listing the cause for it. I personally think that the recent acts of violence should be judged outside the context described in the OP, simply because I believe that everyone has a personal responsibility for any act of violence they commit. However, the OP describes a situation that logically can be a motive for choosing to commit violence.

I'm glad you picked up on the different angles of the two OPs, but I don't think it's a 180.

BTW I found it via a refutal of the OP by Petra Marquardt-Bigman: (blogs.timesofisrael.com/bds-solidarity-with-murderous-hatred/)

[shira]

7. But Palumbo-Liu is justifying the violence by attributing deliberate malice....

....to Israel's intentions (as well as fabricating events to give "cause" to Palestinian violence).

As Marquardt-Bigman wrote:

Note that in this paragraph, Palumbo-Liu accuses Israel of “purposefully” bombing and destroying Palestinian schools, hospitals and mosques, and as with all the other accusations he lists, Israel seems to commit these evils without any reason. Israel sadistically torments innocent Palestinians, inflicting terrible suffering on them, and therefore, it is obviously “no wonder they will resist and fight against those committing those acts.”

You don't see anything wrong with that kind of incitement, do you? That's typical of Jew hating incitement from the past 20 centuries, but I'm not sure you realize that. Twisting facts, telling half-truths in order to portray Jews in the worst light possible - in order to "cause" or justify attacks against them.

It's why any objective, honest person familiar with Jewish history - from crusades, to inquisitions, to pogroms - can easily sniff out the antisemitic intent within these obnoxious articles.

But who does Palumbo-Liu quote from? Why of course, websites that are pro-Hamas & call for Israel's destruction (not peaceful coexistence). Being pro-Hamas means supporting or defending their goal of killing all Jews. This isn't rocket science (no pun intended given Gaza's rocket assaults the past decade).

Think about this because it's really simple. When someone's goal is to destroy Israel - they will find any reason or any cause to bring that about - in this case, stoking and fueling hate and violence against Jews by making up claims or repeating Hamas' batshit & insane fascist propaganda.

[Little Tich]

9. Many people, including me, believe that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.

It's definitely conceivable that Israel did target civilians and civilian infrastructure including mosques and hospitals. Fortunately the ICC is working on the case, so the question whether Israel committed war crimes or not will be answered eventually.

Interestingly, Palumbo-Liu uses a wide range of sources, not all of them 100%, impartial, but he also uses sources like B'Tselem, Amnesty, Haaretz, and the Guardian, sources which even you should consider impartial.

The rest of your argument about the sources being Jew-hating incitement, pro-hamas etc and that the OP is "repeating Hamas' batshit & insane fascist propaganda", is only backed up by your own assertions.

I think your criticism of the OP is unfounded.

[shira]

8. Tich - would evidence from the 1930's showing the same false incitement....

Last edited Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:26 PM - Edit history (1)

....about Jews wanting to take over the Mosque and Mount - convince you that the same bullshit is happening today - and that little has changed since then?

Meaning, all the "causes" and "justifications" the anti-Israel crowd is trying to peddle - is simply bullshit?

Yes or No?

Well - remember, I'm assuming first that you believe the incitement from the 1930's about Jews wanting to take over the Mosque was false and malicious. Not sure we're even on the same page there.

[Little Tich]

10. No, it wouldn't.

However, if you could prove that the daily lives of Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the West Bank aren't curtailed by the occupation, and that they have nothing to complain about, then it's quite possible that you're right about incitement being the cause for the violence.

The argument that the OP makes, and which I also believe, is that the current situation is intolerable, and also that it's the cause of the current violence. Israel's attempt to change the status quo and any incitement are just triggers, and nothing would have happened if Israel hadn't treated the Palestinians badly.

This also means that Netanyahu is doing the exatly opposite of what he should be doing. If Palestinian unhappiness over current conditions is the cause for the violence, it doesn't make sense to make them worse. However, if you were right that incitement is the cause, then Netanyahu is doing the right thing by treating this as a security issue and clamping down on Palestinian communities.

About the riots in the 30's - I don't know much about them. I read the wikipedia article on the subject, but it wasn't thorough enough to make me an instant expert on the subject.

[azurnoir]

4. yes Israel seems to think making the families of 'terrorists' suffer by destroying their homes

is the way to go

IDF razes Hebron home of terrorist in fatal 2014 West Bank attack

Iraeli forces overnight razed the Hebron home of a Palestinian terrorist who ran over and stabbed to death an Israeli civilian during a wave of violence nearly a year ago, the army said Tuesday morning.

The military said it demolished the home of Maher Hamdi el-Hashlamoun, who killed 26-year-old Dalia Lemkus in order to send a warning to other would-be terrorists, as the country struggles to stamp out a fresh wave of terror.

“Last night’s activity sends a clear message that there is a personal price to pay when you are involved in terror. We will utilize all the necessary means in order to protect innocent civilians from the atrocities of those engaged in stabbing, shooting and the killing of innocent Israelis,” IDF spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner said in a statement.

“Whoever feels mercy for the cruel is bound to eventually be cruel to the merciful,” Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon said at a cabinet meeting last week. “We must inflict upon terrorists and their families critical economic harm. Every terrorist should know before they hurt a Jew that his family will also be hurt. We must create a balance of deterrence against terrorists in the economic aspect as well.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-razes-hebron-home-of-terrorist-in-fatal-2014-west-bank-attack/

[geek tragedy]

6. Kahlon is the supposed moderate in that government.

Notice that he's only concerned with harm to Jews.

If someone wants to kill Muslims or Christians, meh is the reaction.

Jewish life is elevated above all others.

Zionism has morphed, or evolved, or devolved, into Judeosupremacism. Perhaps that was unavoidable.