Pew Research Center: "Most Israeli Jews (79%) say Jews deserve preferential treatment in Israel"

[Mufaddal]

The Middle East's "democracy."

For real, imagine a study announcing, "Most White Americans (79%) say Whites deserve preferential treatment in US."

Additionally:

Jews are more likely than Arabs to say all their friends belong to their religious group. To some extent, this may reflect the fact that the majority of Israel’s population is Jewish. Two-thirds of Israeli Jews (67%) say all of their friends are Jewish. By comparison, 38% of Muslims, 21% of Christians and 22% of Druze say all their friends share their religion.

Full results and analysis: http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/#israeli-jews-united-on-need-for-jewish-homeland

[oberliner]

1. Israel was specifically created as a Jewish homeland

This was mostly as a result of the centuries of anti-semitism that Jews faced in countries where they lived around the world where they were always treated as second class citizens (if they were lucky). Of course, in the case of Europe in the decade prior to Israel's existence - Jewish people were systematically rounded up and slaughtered in mass numbers in concentration camps created expressly for that purpose. That enhanced the impetus for the creation of a Jewish state.

With respect to your little imaginary study, 99 percent of White Americans did think that for the first 150 years of this country's existence. In fact for the first 100 years, blacks were barely considered to be even human and were, in fact, owned as property by wealthy whites. This legacy impacts the US to this day and is part of the reason for the systemic racism that pervades American society and the obvious white privilege that effects every aspect of the American experience.

[Mufaddal]

2. Spare me the hasbara

Apologists for apartheid get my ignore button. Have a nice life.

[King_David]

3. You're rude .... As well as clueless...

Reread Oberliner post , you may learn something....



http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=125462

[grossproffit]

4. Results of Jury

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

a rude clueless post

The review was completed at Tue Mar 8, 2016, 05:33 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: A personal attack.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This isn't really over the top.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert is ridiculous. The post above this one is the disruptive one, not the one alerted on.

[King_David]

5. Thank you for this and for your vote .

[COLGATE4]

7. This one appears to be incapable of learning... nt

[King_David]

8. And or unwilling....

[COLGATE4]

9. That too. nt

[leftynyc]

21. I can't believe you got alerted on

given the garbage you were responding to. Wear that ignore with pride and I'll laugh alongside you at the alerter whose fee fees can't handle someone feeling differently.

[King_David]

24. Ha ha

Thanks and I agree, proud of that ignore.

[MariaThinks]

73. it was truly garbage. unbelievable. See what the Jews are really up against

[leftynyc]

76. That attitude is

not a majority opinion at all. We just need to be vigilant about calling it out whenever we see it and don't allow it to fester OR allow those who vomit them on this board to think they wont get pushed back.

[leftynyc]

20. What utter horseshit

Get used to it - Americans support Israel by an overwhelming majority and you represent a very loud, very teeny minority which will get you absolutely nowhere. You and your fellow travelers continue to look away from what goes on every single day in the country's that are Israel's neighbors and the majority of Americans are sickened by it. Your double standards are going to continue to get the Palestinians nothing but hand wringing bullshit. Now put me on ignore also. You're obviously unable to defend your position to anyone who thinks differently. The problem is yours alone and I'll wear that ignore with pride.

[azurnoir]

25. yep 1 out of 2 Dems and 4 out of 5 Republicans sympathize with Israel

[leftynyc]

29. LOL and again

you want to pretend the majority of Democrats agree with you instead of the opposite. Just freeking admit that EVERY demographic - religion, age, political party and gender - ALL favor Israel over the Palestinians STRONGLY. Thanks for posting the poll that PROVES my point while you continue to insist that 23% of the 30% that identify as Democrats actually means anything at all.

[azurnoir]

32. I'm not pretending anything I'm stating what the poll shows when broken down by party affiliation

not to worry as a Democrat you're still in the majority, just not as large a majority

[leftynyc]

33. I'm not worried at all

That poll has been saying the same thing for YEARS. It's you thinking the needle has moved one scintilla in the direction of sympathizing with the Palestinians that seems to have the problem (of denial). I know you don't care what republicans or independents are saying so I'll just put you down for ignoring what 2/3 of Americans think there - and then you still come out in the teeny minority with Democrats.

[azurnoir]

35. I come out with nearly half of Democrats the other half of Democrats side with the majority of GOP

[leftynyc]

36. Uh - NO

You're on the side of 23% of Democrats - not half. The numbers are right there for everyone to see. The 53% of Democrats that you're determined to ignore are also in fine company with all those independents....you know independents, those that actually decide our elections. If the math serves me right - you're on the side of 8% of Americans but wish to ignore the other 92%. Knock yourself out.

[azurnoir]

38. why do you pretend otherwise 53% of Dems and 79% of Republicans sympathize w/Israel

I've said nothing about support or sympathy for Palestinians

[leftynyc]

39. Don't fib

Here are your own words:

I come out with nearly half of Democrats the other half of Democrats side with the majority of GOP

On what planet is 23% nearly half?

But thanks for posting that poll yet again. The more people see it, the better.

[azurnoir]

40. yes nearly half that don't sympathize with Israel that's not fibbing it's truth

even no opinion is an opinion

[leftynyc]

41. LOL

Using that metric - I'm on the side of 74% of Democrats and 82% of Americans who don't sympathize with the Palestinians. Gee, math is fun.

[azurnoir]

42. so you count no opinion as sympathy> I count it as no opinion but as spin it sort of works

we've seen plenty of sort of working spin in the last few days

[leftynyc]

43. Are you drinking?

In the post just before that you said you were with the almost 50% that don't sympathize with Israel - pulling together the pro-P and the no opinion (you claimed no opinion is still an opinion). When I cull together the same exact way - adding the Pro-I people with the no opinion, you call it spin. Seriously, are you drunk?

[azurnoir]

44. supporting Palestinians is your spin as I have not said a word about that nor is that the subject

nor do I have to imply that someone is inebriated to accentuate my point

[King_David]

45. You really have difficulty following poll results

Huh ?

On days that you don't kick this thread I will , because it really needs to be seen...thanks.

[azurnoir]

48. yes I agree this thread does need to be seen do you promise to keep it kicked?

[King_David]

50. The poll thread where double the amount of Democrats support Israel

Than the number of Democrats that support the Palestinians , in the conflict.

[azurnoir]

51. nope this one the poll from that thread is already posted here

[King_David]

52. I wouldn't think you would want to kickall your responses here in this thread. nt

[azurnoir]

53. but I do trust me I do :)

[leftynyc]

54. Not the subject?

NOT THE SUBJECT? The SUBJECT is the poll YOU posted. The one that measures sympathy for Israel versus the Palestinians. Now it's NOT the subject? OK, you're not drunk (I wasn't accusing, I was trying to help you out of this hole you dug) - you're simply not making any sense whatsoever.

[azurnoir]

58. title of Pew poll I posted -Americans' Views Toward Israel Remain Firmly Positive

http://www.gallup.com/poll/189626/americans-views-toward-israel-remain-firmly-positive.aspx?g_source=Politics&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

oh btw did your caps lock key get broken?

[leftynyc]

59. Nope - not broken

I just thought you obviously needed some help with what the poll you posted was showing. Still want to claim I was spinning information using the same formula you yourself was using 2 posts before? The title of the piece could have easily been "Americans' views of Palestinians abysmally negative".

[azurnoir]

60. as the poll title shows I am not the one spinning anything and when broken down by party

affiliation the poll shows very plainly support/sympathy for Israel in the US is bolstered by Republicans who support/sympathize/view positively Israel by a 4:5 ratio

[leftynyc]

61. Don't try and change the subject

And a link to the poll would be sufficient - all you're doing by posting it three times here is clogging up the thread for everyone else. You combined the percentage of those sympathizing with the Palestinians with those with no opinion to state you stood with almost half (actually 44% - the math isn't hard). When I did the same thing, combined those sympathizing with Israel with those with no opinion (74%), you called it spin. And it's not just republicans skewing the numbers up - it's also the independents who sympathize with Israel 56% vs 15%. The hypocrisy is there for everyone to see which is why nobody is coming to your defense. You stand with 8% of Americans PERIOD. That you want to ignore the other 92% of your fellow Americans is entirely your problem.

[azurnoir]

70. No spin at all are you embarrassed by the fact that only 53% of Dems support/sympathize'view

positively Israel while 79% of Republicans do?

[leftynyc]

72. Not in the slightest

Why on earth should I be? I'M still with the majority of Democrats. It's you with the fringe position.

[MariaThinks]

79. i'm so tired of Israel haters who then turn around and talk about being

discriminated against themselves.

[King_David]

46. You mean 23%

Do you follow this poll at all?

[azurnoir]

47. why the attempt to change the subject which is sympathy for Israel?

[leftynyc]

55. I'll kick this thread

all day, every day. And this poll YOU posted (more than once). You are making NO sense and I want everyone to see it.

[MariaThinks]

77. 53% is not 50. duh.

[azurnoir]

90. you're right it's not but if one is rounding numbers it is allowed just as 57% would be 60%

[MariaThinks]

75. weird choice of words 'sympathize'

[leftynyc]

78. I thought so too

but they do the same exact poll with that same word every February. And the percentages hardly ever change.

[azurnoir]

88. why weird? is it something nefarious or what?

[MariaThinks]

74. exactly

[Israeli]

11. " With respect to your little imaginary study "............

Come on oberliner.........its anything but .

Its an in depth analysis and a very good one .
Anyone trying to understand Israel today should read it ,one of the best I have seen in English .

Instead of giving us a history lesson is there anything you disagree with this study on " Israel’s Religiously Divided Society " ?????????.......because I think they have nailed it .

[shira]

16. It's a shit study. What type of preferential treatment do 79% of Israeli Jews want?

There's nothing to be made of these "findings".

When asked about expelling Arabs, what does that mean? Arab citizens of Israel? Non-citizens? Palestinians in E.Jerusalem? Palestinians in the W.Bank or Gaza?

Come on, it's amateurish.

Granted, Jew haters love to use this as incitement - but it's worthless.

[Israeli]

18. Its not a "shit study" shira ....

....and neither is it "amateurish or worthless "........its a very honest study .

I suggest you tone down your language.......your coming across , to me at least , as the equivalent of red neck America ....kind of language I would expect of Donald Trump ...but never of Bernie Sanders .

[shira]

23. Okay, so what type of preferential treatment do 79% of Israeli Jews want?

Preferential treatment as to Law of Return for Jews?

Maybe keeping Israel as is, as the Jewish state?

If not, how do you know?

[MariaThinks]

89. can you explain why Israel's neighbors feel that they can threaten to destroy Israel?

[leftynyc]

22. Do you believe this?

Every single Muslim majority country would vote the same exact way but Israel is the devil. THIS is why the pro-P people get absolutely no place in the US. People look at the double standards and are sickened by them.

[shira]

49. Yeah, believe it. The game is to trash, nazify & incite hate vs. Israel.

Once that is understood, everything comes together rather easily.

As for comparing Israel to their neighbors, that's where the racism of low expectations comes in. All Arabs in that region - in relation to Israel or Israelis - are considered animals who cannot & should not ever be held accountable for what they do & believe. Nothing better can be expected. To criticize is racist...

OTOH, Israel is held to higher standards than all Western countries. Two dimensional Palestinians. Four dimensional Israelis.

Again - understandable if one understands the game is to demonize & incite hate vs. the Jewish state, and by extension Jews.

[brush]

81. So what are you saying, that Israelis are justified in believing in preferential treatment for Jews

[Scootaloo]

84. And yet plenty of non-Jews live there, yes or no?

[Little Tich]

10. I know that there are racists in Israel, but 79% of all Jewish Israelis?

That's so much more than I would actually believe. Frankly, I don't think Israel can remain a democracy for much longer if the majority are against equal rights for minorities.

[Israeli]

12. Are Israeli Jews racist?..........

Summary: Two surveys published recently find a link between Jewish-Orthodox identity and discriminatory opinions against Israeli-Palestinians.
Author Akiva Eldar
Posted March 8, 2016
Translator Aviva Arad


Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/03/polls-pew-israelis-secular-ultra-orthodox-occupation-god.html#ixzz42OR6ihfh

[shira]

17. You're being misled & manipulated...

98% of Jewish Israelis say Jews around the world should be entitled to Israeli citizenship.

91% say the Jewish state is necessary for the long-term survival of the Jewish people.

========

Unless you think THAT is racist, it explains a lot about that 79%. In fact, 79% of Israeli Jews support what type of preferential treatment?

Unknown.

[Little Tich]

56. Do you think the current political system in Israel where Jewish citizens get preferential treatment

is what most of the 79% were referring to?

I do, but I also wonder where those 79% stand on giving even more preferential treatment to Jewish Israelis...

[shira]

57. See, you don't even know what that preferential treatment refers to.

But you had no problem immediately calling 79% of Israeli Jews racist.

Meanwhile, BDS'ers who support the murder of random Jews (PA/Hamas terrorism) are not racist in your book.

See the disconnect yet?

[Little Tich]

91. Maybe it's just me, but I can't find a way to put this question about about preferential treatment

in a situation where a "Yes" wouldn't mean support for racism.

Only supporters of racism could answer yes to a question like that. The nearest equivalent in the US would probably be: "Do white American deserve preferential treatment?", and I would consider a "Yes" to that question to be support for racism.

Is there something wrong with my reasoning?

BTW, I can't think of any individual that fits the description "BDS'ers who support the murder of random Jews (PA/Hamas terrorism)". Please provide an example.

[shira]

93. Are we going to have a serious or pretend conversation here?

in a situation where a "Yes" wouldn't mean support for racism.

Only supporters of racism could answer yes to a question like that. The nearest equivalent in the US would probably be: "Do white American deserve preferential treatment?", and I would consider a "Yes" to that question to be support for racism.

That's no equivalent when it comes to the safety and well-being of Jews worldwide. Over 90% of Jews believe Israel is vital for the long term survival of the Jewish people. Good luck finding 90% of Jews who agree on anything, which goes to show how important this is (not how racist we are).

Now how is it possible for decent people to NOT empathize with a people whose Holocaust is still within living memory? If Israel existed and was strong and proud back in the 1930's, that could have saved millions from the ovens & gas chambers. Israel is still vital today when Jew hatred and antisemitic attacks are spiking worldwide (worst situation for Jews worldwide in decades).

And you think preferences for Jews (Law of Return, keeping Israel a Jewish state) in their historic Jewish homeland - that these preference for Jews over non Jews whether Arab, Muslim, Christian, White, Black, French, or Chinese - is racist? You can't be serious.

Is there something wrong with my reasoning?

Engage with what I just wrote above and answer your own question, okay?

BTW, I can't think of any individual that fits the description "BDS'ers who support the murder of random Jews (PA/Hamas terrorism)". Please provide an example.

Is this a serious or pretend question? If you're not just playing games then...

Ask yourself why BDS'ers support Palestinian resistance in the form of terror attacks against random innocent Jews. I can find one example after the next where BDS leaders insist Palestinian resistance (terror) is legitimate. I've even posted many examples in that HUGE thread about BDS being antisemitic.

Why do BDS'ers defend Israeli Arab MK's who support terrorists? Just this week, these MK's came out in defense of Hezbollah. Why the support for Mahmoud Abbas who incites attacks, rewards the families of "martyrs", and praises terror attacks that maim & kill Jews? Or why the denial that Abbas is doing this? Abbas refuses to condemn attacks that target pregnant women, children, or grandmothers. Why defend Hamas from war crimes charges (using human shields, child militants)? I don't see any BDS'ers coming out against Hamas using foreign aid for terror tunnels rather than building homes. I see no disgust from BDS'ers when Hamas celebrates terror attacks, call Jews dogs, pigs, and apes - or advocates for the annihilation of all Jews in their vile 1988 charter. What am I to gather from all this? Even better is the insistence Jews cannot defend themselves properly against terror attacks, ever. Since anything they do against terrorists is a war crime, racist, etc. There's no other way of understanding such a position other than Jews aren't allowed to defend themselves from Jew hating maniacs (who BTW are always portrayed by BDS'ers as desperate victims).

And you ask to provide examples? Really?

It's obvious BDS supports the murder of random Jews; that they support the goals of Jew hating Hamas fanatics. To prove it, I'm banking on the fact you won't attempt to engage with any of the content in that last paragraph.

That's why I ask if this is a serious or pretend conversation/debate. If serious & honest, I'm pretty damned sure you won't be interested in engaging with anything I wrote in this post. I'd be surprised if you respond at all.

But I'd love to be proven wrong.

[azurnoir]

13. Meanwhile in the US- A Jewish democratic socialist wins largest Arab-American city.

https://twitter.com/justinwedes/status/707403618765279233

seeing as how the US was sited as an 'example'

[shira]

14. Two words. Donald Trump. 'Nuff said. n/t

[azurnoir]

27. Has nothing to do with this except according to this and another recent study seen here

he might do very well in Israel despite not being Jewish-see proof of Israeli inclusiveness right there

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/03/08/how-israels-jewishness-is-overtaking-its-democracy/

[shira]

15. Yeah, Duh. It's the Jewish homeland where 91% of all Jews say Jewish state is necessary.......

....for the long term survival of the Jewish people.

Of course 100% of Jew haters believe a Jewish state is NOT necessary so that Jews can go back to their defenseless & pathetic state of being that led to the Holocaust.

It's those neo-nazi, compassion abusing trolls who believe themselves to be the "conscience" of civilization today.

[leftynyc]

19. Anyone who thinks they

wouldn't get the exact same result (probably even worse) in ANY Muslim majority country, they're delusional. Once again Israel is going to be held to a much higher standard than any of its neighbors. Let me know when they put a law on the books to kill gays and those who leave the religion. Then you'll get my attention. One Jewish state in the entire world and people are getting hysterical about it. Nauseating.

[MariaThinks]

26. Its the Jewish homeland

I think Jews deserve greater protections everywhere.

[Mufaddal]

28. That's cool.

Maybe we should establish a White homeland in the south. Seem like a great idea? Pretty democratic?

You know who's had it rough, though? The Roma. Maybe we should establish an ethnic colonial state with preferential treatment for them in Europe.

[leftynyc]

30. Yawn

Let me know when you'll start complaining about ALL the majority Muslim countries out there that will KILL you for leaving the religion.

[choie]

80. Hey uh "Lefty"

those Muslim countries don't profess to be Democracies. If the wide majority of Israeli Jews are for preferential treatment, then they are anti-Democratic. A country that has preferential treatment for one group is not a Democracy.

[leftynyc]

82. Try Indonesia

Call Israel whatever you want. Wont make a damns worth of difference.

[choie]

83. What a thought-provoking response...

it's a credit to you.

[leftynyc]

85. You were wrong about

Islamic democracies and wont admit it. Why should I waste thought provoking responses on you when you've already impinged my position by calling me "uh lefty" like you get to decide what side of the fucking aisle I'm on? Take your petulance someplace else.

[choie]

86. I will stay and

"Impinge" all I want. Whatever the hell that means.

[leftynyc]

87. Freeking autocorrect

Do you know what impugn means? As for staying, knock yourself out.

[King_David]

94. Actually I think she proved her point nicely.

[King_David]

31. Another "borderline" post

You're on a roll...do you think your views on the Jewish state resemble any Democratic Party policy or any Democratic Party candidate or reps views whatsoever?

[leftynyc]

37. The recent gallup poll

has been posted here for the poster to see. He/She knows they're in a teeny minority - they just like to pretend otherwise. Like children putting their hands over their ears.

[MariaThinks]

63. there is never a complaint when a Christian church is attacked in Pakistan

or complaints when the Taliban are destroying Buddhist temples in Afganistan.

[MariaThinks]

62. i find this offensive. its not the same thing and i'm tired of the Jewish people being put down.

[Mufaddal]

64. So then let me ask: do any and all persecuted minorities get to establish racial homelands

with preferential treatment? Does that seem, in general, like a good idea or precedent?

And incidentally, this has nothing to do with Jews being "put down." It's sad that you try to frame it that way.

[MariaThinks]

65. why aren't you focusing on the problems in Saudi Arabia where people get executed for converting

away from islam?

Or Pakistan that is discriminating against Christian minorities.

Or Afganistan who is stoning women for alleged adultery.

Or Iraq where homosexuals are being thrown off rooftops by isis

Or Iran that is threatening the destruction of the entire Jewish state?

?

[Mufaddal]

66. I focus on these things on a regular basis

But it says a lot about you that you'd be willing to make the assumption that I don't.

I'm a Shia, by the way. If you know anything about the history of Islam, you'll know exactly what that means in relationship to this conversation.

In the meantime, perhaps you could answer the questions that I posed, rather than throwing out red herrings.

[MariaThinks]

67. death is not a red herring. It says a lot about you when you jump from the Jewish

people to white supremists.

[Mufaddal]

68. I think you need to look up "red herring"

And stop conflating Jews and Israelis. It's offensive. When you're done with that, perhaps you could respond to my question: Do any and all persecuted minorities get to establish racial homelands with preferential treatment? Does that seem, in general, like a good idea or precedent?

[MariaThinks]

69. No, but i would prioritize those below the other problems i mentioned in my earlier post

having some rights is not as bad as being stoned to death for trying to convert to a different religion.

I'm sure this will not satisfy you. I won't be responding to additional posts from you, so you can have the last word.

[grossproffit]

71. +1

[no_hypocrisy]

34. Israel has a different demagraphical make-up today than 1948.

At its inception, Israel was mostly European refugees, some living there since the early 1900s and many many more escaping from the Third Reich after WWII. In the successive decades, the new immigrants have largely come from the United States, bringing with them ideas of colonialism and a history of driving indigent people from their lands like the Native Americans. The 79% is based on the descendants of the original emigrees and the first and second generation of Americans. I would not have expected that high a number from a country that was started on a combination of democratic and socialistic ideals.

[Israeli]

92. Ethnic cleansing poll a dangerous sign for Israel

By Michael Schaeffer Omer-Man |Published March 9, 2016

The vast majority of Jewish Israelis don’t want to give up their privilege. But nobody has the right to ‘democratically’ deny rights to another.

The most shocking piece of information to come out of a Pew Research Center survey of Israeli society published Tuesday is that nearly half of Jews in the country say they support the ethnic cleansing of Arabs. Forty-eight percent of Jewish respondents agreed/strongly agreed that “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.”

Digging deeper into the data, however, that glimpse into the collective political mindset of half of Israel’s Jewish population becomes less and less surprising. Furthermore, the full set of data makes the prospect of Israel voluntarily ending the occupation and becoming a state of all its citizens appear more distant than ever.

The picture of the Jewish Israeli body politic drawn by the Pew survey seems to mirror the state of Israel’s politics, an indication that Israel’s system of government is more akin to a tyranny of the majority than democracy.

For instance, we learn from the survey that the vast majority of Israeli Jews (79 percent) think Israel should give preferential treatment to its Jewish citizens. A statistically identical number (76 percent), with some obvious dissonance, say they believe that democracy is compatible with a Jewish state. Democracy without full equality for all citizens, however, is only a democracy in name.

Another insight, which is possibly more troubling although not as sexy a headline, is that there is no viable political force or portion of Israeli society that opposes those illiberal currents which run straight to the core of Israel’s national identity — a system of government that academic Oren Yiftachel termed ethnocracy.

Where is the political opposition? Where are those political forces, those peace-seekers and civil rights crusaders who would fight for a better, more equal, liberal and democratic future? Where is the Left?

The Pew survey found that only 8 percent of Jewish Israelis today identify with the political Left — 92 percent with the Center and Right. Or in other words, there is no Left. Indeed, the only Zionist party that places itself on the political Left, Meretz, holds a mere five of 120 seats — 4 percent — in the country’s parliament, the Knesset. (There are non-Zionist parties that are often identified with the Israeli ideas ascribed to liberalism and the Left, but their support from the Jewish population is nominal.)

So if there is no Left, and if the vast majority of the Center and Right believes one ethno-religious group should receive privileged or preferential treatment from the state — necessarily at the expense of other ethno-religious groups — then we can deduce that under current circumstances the prospects of Israel voluntarily becoming a state that treats all citizens equally are slim to none.

“History is the long and tragic story of the fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily,” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. wrote in his Letter From Birmingham City Jail. In Israel today we can see that tragic process playing out yet again.

We are at the tail end of two decades of failed peace processes. Those processes were not meant to liberate Palestinians or to grant them equality, either in Israel or the occupied territories. By drawing political boundaries — a la gerrymandering — to ensure a Jewish majority, the peace process was designed to preserve Jewish privilege within a Jewish state while maintaining the country’s democratic, or rather ethnocratic, character.

Today even the Labor party, which designed, championed and sold the two-state solution to the world as an alternative to both full equality and apartheid, has given up on that dream. In turn, that has led us into an abyss where half of the Jewish population appears willing to openly consider a step as drastic as ethnic cleansing to preserve its privilege, privilege 91 percent say is necessary for the long-term survival of the Jewish people.

But just as it is not legitimate for Israel’s Jewish population to “democratically” decide whether to treat the country’s Arab citizens equally, it is even less legitimate for Jewish Israelis to “democratically” decide to deny basic civil and human rights to the millions of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

The leader of the Israeli opposition, of the so-called “peace camp,” recently declared that “a full peace agreement, unfortunately, isn’t around the corner and at this stage.” Palestinians must wait for Israel to grant them their rights, he has been explaining for the past few months. But what right does he, or any Israeli leader, have to decide if and when a group of people — who did not elect them — can realize their rights?

Isaac Herzog wants Palestinians to patiently wait for their rights until he decides the time is right. He understands, and he knows that his constituency understands, that granting Palestinians equal rights would destroy Jewish privilege. And the alternative, a two-state solution, isn’t around the corner. So the Palestinians must wait.

But boycotts are wrong.

Source: http://972mag.com/ethnic-cleansing-poll-a-dangerous-sign-for-israel/117768/

[azurnoir]

96. Do you think the situation in Israel seems intractable in part because of the support and apparent

backing it gets from the west, in particularly the US?

[Israeli]

97. Yes ...........

It is regrettable that even Amos Schocken, in his excellent and courageous article in Haaretz of 26 January 2016, in which he calls for external
pressure on Israel in order to force it to withdraw from the Occupied
Territories, also writes that “the two-state solution is the Zionist way”, and
“Zionism, which is always willing to divide the Land of Israel with its Arab
residents …”

Where did he gets that idea from?

Where did the founders of Zionism write any such thing? Did not the fathers of Zionism speak of “a land without a people for a people without a land”? Even at the beginning of
Zionism there were already those who saw Transjordan (today’s Kingdom of
Jordan) as part of the Promised Land. It is true that the Zionist leadership
were forced to forego part of the land, as in the Peel plan, for example, but
then Palestina-EI [4] was under the rule of the British Mandate and the Jews
were a minority of the residents of the country. When David Ben-Gurion’s son
complained to his father about conceding parts of the country, his father
replied that the concession was a temporary one and the time would come “when
we will get stronger and we will cancel this agreement”. And indeed since its
independence Israel has aspired to conquer as much territory as possible for
the new state. It began in the 1948 war and has continued to this very day.

Does not Schocken himself claim in his article that Israel will not
voluntarily give up land, that is, withdraw from the Occupied Territories?
With that stance Israel is acting in the spirit of Zionism and not counter to
Zionist ideology.

The meaning of Zionism today is rule over and exploitation of another people,
that is, the Palestinians. Israel’s refusal to withdraw from the Occupied
Territories is in conformity with the spirit of Zionism rather than against
it. The abandonment of Zionism as the State religion would be a (very!)
desirable development, but that looks fanciful today. Withdrawal today depends
not on abandoning the Zionist ideology but on ending the massive support of
the West, and especially of the US, for Israel and its conquests, and on the
Palestinian people’s struggle for liberation and the creation of their
independent state.

Source : http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=71858

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