Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumOne of Canada’s largest student association endorses BDS against Israel
snip* With the passage late last week of the resolution, York University's student association joins two others in Canada - the University of Toronto and Concordia University graduate student associations - in endorsing the BDS campaign, according to the York University Excalibur.
The campaign calls for universities to divest from holdings in companies that do business with Israel and to cut ties with Israeli academics.
The vote by the council of the York Federation of Students was 18-2 in favor and was advocated for by the Students Against Israeli Apartheid at York.
Jewish student groups at York complained that they were not given advance notice of the vote and had little time to prepare an argument against the resolution.
snip* Chaim Lax, president of Hasbara@York, said his group was disappointed and called the resolution fundamentally racist, and a possible violation of [Yorks] anti-discrimination codes.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/one-of-canada-s-largest-student-association-endorses-bds-against-israel-1.512800
jessie04
(1,528 posts)What a sick joke.
Ask the Israeli Arabs who are doctors , lawyers and high tech university students how terrible it is.
The Big Lie....say it often and louder and some dumbshit believes it.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)that two step to hide the truth is rather over used
shira
(30,109 posts)Until they take that lie back, they get called out for their bullshit.
They're also against 2 states.
But still you support BDS. Go figure.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it's sort of like ProPalestinian state people here using Dov Lor or Moshe Feiglin to represent every Israeli but be my guest
but while we're here explain how in the West Bank Israeli military law having different ages of legal responsibility, or Israeli settlers are allowed to carry and supplied with M-16's, but a Palestinian can be arrested for carrying rocks, IIOW different laws for different people based on their ethnic/religious group is not apartheid?
shira
(30,109 posts)When that's pretty much all BDS is to you....smoke-and-mirrors, lying, deceitful bullshit, that shows what a garbage cause it is that you support.
Is this a game to you? I wonder.
You did this before when you denied you were for full RoR, only to admit to it once you were shown a quote from months before.
============
You know damned well Omar Barghouti is the founder and main representative of BDS and he claims all Israel is apartheid. Barghouti admits he is for 1-state....
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/02/cant-interview-barghouti.html
Norm Finkelstein calls BDS a cult and knows very damned well BDS wants an end to Israel....
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/finkelstein-stands-by-bds-cult-accusation-says-its-historically-criminal-to-not-support-the-two-state-solution.html
Here's more Finkelstein calling bullshit on BDS lies and bullshit...
I mean we have to be honest, and I loathe the disingenuous. They dont want Israel. They think they are being very clever; they call it their three-tier. We want the end of the occupation, the right of return, and we want equal rights for Arabs in Israel. And they think they are very clever because they know the result of implementing all three is what, what is the result?
You know and I know what the result is. Theres no Israel!
Its not an accidental and unwitting omission that BDS does not mention Israel. You know that and I know that. Its not like theyre oh we forgot to mention it. They wont mention it because they know it will split the movement. Cause theres a large segment of the movement that wants to eliminate Israel.
When BDS is pure bullshit, lies, and deceit, why endorse or support it? This is what's so disturbing about most of the pro-Palestinian contingent...
Just come right out and be proud of what you stand for!
Go for it!
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Another very basic reality that Palestinians in Israel face is that Israel is the only country on earth that does not define itself as a state of its citizens. Its a state of the Jewish people. What does that mean? It means that even if you have lived in Palestine for generations, even if you were there before it became Israel, you dont receive the full set of rights if you are not Jewish. Israel does not belong to you; it belongs to the Jewish nation. In fact, the very concept of a Jewish nation is controversial, and Jewish communities around the world have debated and continue to vigorously debate it.
Imagine the equivalent here. Imagine if the U.S. declared itself a Christian statea state of the Christian nation. Any Christian around the world would have full rights in the United States, but not its Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian communities. Would anyone accept such inequality written into the laws themselves? Would anyone accept unequal treatment based on their identity? Why then is it acceptable that Israel has dozens of laws that discriminate against its non-Jewish citizens?
In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and in Gaza, such apartheid treatment is obviously much more pronounced than within Israel. At least Palestinian citizens of Israel can cast a vote. Yes, all parties have to take a loyalty oath to the state as a Jewish and democratic state, but this is, of course, an oxymoron: a state cannot be both a Jewish exclusivist supremacist state and democratic.
If we go to the West Bank and Gaza, we see that apartheid is concrete. Israels separation wallIsraels apartheid walllies predominantly within the Occupied Territories, and it has been ruled a violation of international law by the International Court of Justice.
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/02/cant-interview-barghouti.html
but be proud of what that stands for if you wish
shira
(30,109 posts)Why deny what you endorse/support?
BDS is what it is, so why not admit it & be proud of what it is?
Embarrassed?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)with it being much more obvious and pronounced in the West Bank, perhaps you's be better addressing that rather than simply attacking the messenger
but apparently that such discrimination exists does not bother you half so much as someone pointing it out which is why all the histrionics
shira
(30,109 posts)Did you now just "see the light" and agree that there's apartheid within Israel too?
Why not just say they're bullshit and fight the good cause, rather than support their lies and deceit?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)far easier to point and screech terrorist isn't it? or pretend to be oh so concerned for women's rights as long as it's other Arabs infringing on them or what ever issue quickens the liberal pulse at the moment
shira
(30,109 posts)...isn't deceitful and is, as you write "non-violent" resistance?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)that is extrapolation on your part, much like White South Africans howling about the blood bath that would result from Blacks being given equal rights or White Southerners in the US claiming equal rights would destroy the US
shira
(30,109 posts)Why do you think that is? Their founders are against Israel. Their 3-tiered plan, if fulfilled, definitely means an end to Israel just like Norm Finkelstein says. Why are you denying it?
I assume you cannot defend the BDS lie of apartheid within Israel, correct?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and thanks for confirming my previous post innuendo and inference is all you have here
shira
(30,109 posts)Apparently, you don't have a problem with their lies, being that you do the same thing here (denying you're for full RoR when you're really for it). The reason you denied it is because you know very well what that means for Israel. Now that you're caught, you now say it's okay to be for full RoR b/c that doesn't necessarily mean an end to Israel.
Bullshit on top of bullshit....
Who are you kidding?
And if you were for Palestinian civil rights, you'd have something to say about the situation within Gaza under Hamas or in Lebanon under the apartheid conditions there. That you don't goes to show that, like BDS, you're full of it.
ETA
Hardly any Israelis or Palestinians are for 1-secular state (binational or otherwise). What kind of "equal rights" are you and the schmucks for BDS for when those affected directly by it are against it?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but when it's Israel not so much that's called self defense or something
now myself I am for Palestinians having equal rights and self determination preferably in their own state, that they are refugees in foreign countries is a good deal of the problem
shira
(30,109 posts)And I don't claim to be pro-Palestinian like you guys here do. I don't wear that on my sleeve. What I know is that you guys aren't pro-Palestinian as much as you're anti-Israel.
What's funny is that BDS smears Israel as a colonialist state, but their 1-state secular solution imposes a solution that > 90% of all Palestinians and Israelis oppose.
So you and the BDS putzes have the colonialist attitude, knowing what's best for the people there...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and you are clearly distraught at the notion non-violent resistance
shira
(30,109 posts)....if you didn't think it meant the end of Israel. Now that it's known you and BDS are for it, it conveniently no longer means what you apparently thought it meant just months ago..... what Norm Finkelstein damn well knows.
Yeah, you're so believable.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)what I have seen is people claiming that even with a Palestinian state the UN would force every Palestinian refugee to go to Israel, a laughable notion at best , what I see is fear the same fear that led to White South Africans and White Southerners in the US making the same claims when their superior position was challenged with a more level playing field, what I think I have said in the past is that Israel will never allow full RoR and the current government will not allow any
King_David
(14,851 posts)Nuff said
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)inaccurate at best
shira
(30,109 posts)...nor are they BDS.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but then again I do not have the need to demonize an entire group to justify my positions
shira
(30,109 posts)What more do you need showing they're nothing but garbage, like BDS?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)care to keep going ?
shira
(30,109 posts)...just months after saying you were for it?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but after the recent election the same could be said for the 2 state solution
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That's the nugget of truth that Shira just can't accept.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)most times I just roll with it ya know
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Predictable yet amateurish.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)snip* The problem as I see it with the BDS movement is not the tactic. Who could not support Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions? Of course you should. And most of the human rights organizations, church organizations have moved in that direction.
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/4/norman_finkelstein_on_the_role_of
He does not agree with the goal as he sees it, that is the difference.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)While international law tolerates military occupation, it does not approve it, specifically one that has continued for over 40 years as in the case of Israels occupation of Palestinian territory. Furthermore, during that time, Israel has introduced two other elementscolonialism and apartheid. Although there are many similarities between apartheid as it was applied in South Africa and Israels policies and practices in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, the systems are not identical. There are features of the Israeli regime in the occupied territory that were unknown to South Africans. This years Hisham B. Sharabi Memorial Lecture was delivered by Professor John Dugard.
John Dugard:
Thank you very much for your invitation to speak today. I am very honored. Its a great occasion for The Jerusalem Fund, and Im really pleased to be part of this memorial lecture. As Samar told you, Ive just recently been to Gaza, but I cant speak freely about my visit to Gaza. I was part of a mission established by the League of Arab States to investigate violations of human rights and humanitarian law in Gaza. We visited at the end of February for a week, and were still writing the report. So at this stage, I cannot really comment on our findings. You will appreciate that any attempt to attach responsibility to Israel is a sensitive issue and is bound to result in considerable criticism. So, we want to do a very careful job in preparing our report.
But what I can say is that I have been visiting Gaza twice a year since 2001, and I have on previous occasions witnessed evidence of horrendous bombings and killings and house destructions. But the most recent attack surpassed all the others. There were more killings1,434 deaths of which 288 were children, 121 womenand its estimated that of the 1,400 over 900 were civilians. Of course, the Israeli government disputes this, but I think this is largely because the Israeli government tends to view anyone over the age of 16 as a potential terrorist. And certainly, the Israelis view policemen as militants whereas in fact policemen are, under international law, classified as civilians. And one must remember that the opening salvo, which was very much like an attack on Pearl Harbor, was an attack directed at a police parade in which fifteen new recruits were killed. Its not only the number of deaths but also the manner of killing. We spoke to a number of eyewitnesses who spoke about the way in which their parents, children had been shot in cold blood between their eyes by a member of the IDF [Israeli Defense Forces] at fairly short range. I find it very difficult to believe some of these stories, but they have now been confirmed by members of the IDF. You may have read that at a military academy in Israel there was an open discussion about the conduct of the war, and many members of the IDF spoke with some horror about the way in which their fellow soldiers had behaved.
John Dugard Bio
John Dugard (born in 1936 in Fort Beaufort) is a South African professor of international law. He has served as Judge ad hoc on the International Court of Justice and as a Special Rapporteur for both the former United Nations Commission on Human Rights and the International Law Commission. His main academic specializations are in Roman-Dutch law, public international law, jurisprudence, human rights, criminal procedure and international criminal law. He has written extensively on South African apartheid.
http://www.in.com/john-dugard/biography-145695.html
dwilso40641
(198 posts)Copy and paste
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113437964