Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumBrandeis suspends partnership with Palestinian school after Nazi-style rally
At the Nov. 5 rally, Al-Quds students wore black military gear, carried fake automatic weapons, gave the Nazi salute, and surrounded the main square of their campus with banners depicting images of “martyred” suicide bombers.
“While Brandeis has an unwavering commitment to open dialogue on difficult issues, we are also obliged to recognize intolerance when we see it, and we cannot—and will not—turn a blind eye to intolerance,” Brandeis said in a press release. “As a result, Brandeis is suspending its partnership with Al-Quds University effective immediately. We will reevaluate our relationship with Al-Quds based on future events.”
Brandeis said its president, Fred Lawrence, had asked Al-Quds President Sari Nusseibeh to issue an “unequivocal condemnation of the demonstrations.” Nusseibeh on Sunday night emailed Lawrence an English translation of a statement posted in Arabic on the Al-Quds website, and Brandeis said it considered the statement “unacceptable and inflammatory.”
Rather than exclusively addressing the Nazi-style rally, the Al-Quds statement also described “vilification campaigns by Jewish extremists” against the university.
http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2013/11/19/brandeis-suspends-partnership-with-palestinian-school-after-nazi-style-rally
1. Nusseibeh's response sounds strikingly familiar to that of many "progressive" voices who prove incapable of condemning outright nazi-style, horrifically rightwing, fascist hatred and violence against the dreaded "zionists".
2. Can't wait for the inevitable comment claiming this OP is racist incitement against Palestinians.
3. On a different note, what a shame. It wasn't very long ago that Nusseibeh was considered one of THE leading moderate Palestinian voices for peace and 2-states.
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Brandeis, America’s most well known Jewish university, initially declined to distance itself from the Nov. 5 Al Quds rally, which featured students dressed in black military gear and automatic weapons marching on the school’s campus while raising the traditional Nazi salute.
The Jewish university’s refusal to condemn the rally when approached last week by the Washington Free Beacon sparked a furious reaction from students, teachers, and pro-Israel activists on campus.
Al Quds officials initially distanced themselves from the rally, which was organized by the student branch of the terror organization Islamic Jihad.
However, after news of the rally spread through the Jewish and Israeli media, Al Quds publicly lashed out at the Free Beacon and other outlets, labeling them “Jewish extremists.”
http://freebeacon.com/brandeis-university-severs-ties-with-palestinian-al-quds-university/
more from Mr Kredo the WFB reporter who broke the story
http://www.mfs-theothernews.com/2012/05/team-obama-has-hala-hijazi-jordanian.html
King_David
(14,851 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)anti-Obama rightwinger?
shira
(30,109 posts)Read it, and lemme know whether you disagree with Brandeis' decision.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)from the guy that broke the story 
shira
(30,109 posts)...in light of the event and Nusseibeh's letter in response?
If not, it appears you'd agree more with Brandeis' decision were rightwingers out of the mix altogether. Is that right?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and I would call a guy who posts stuff that would support the Obama as a Muslim meme an extremest - wouldn't you?
shira
(30,109 posts)Where they went wrong is that they caved into RW pressure?
Therefore, had the pressure come from LW'ers then and only then would Brandeis' decision have been correct?
Or is it that you find there's absolutely nothing to condemn @ Al-Quds?
King_David
(14,851 posts)They a Jewish Zionist Israel first type school and so are most of their students they had no choice.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)good answer 
shira
(30,109 posts)Further, it seems you don't believe LW'ers should object to the naziism of Al-Quds and Sari Nusseibeh's support of nazi fascism.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)anyone with any knowledge of how Israel's rule works, knows is false it also casts doubt on the Nazi claims too, I noticed yours cleaned that obvious lie up, BTW I'll bet you've gotta vid don'cha?
shira
(30,109 posts)One picture is at the OP if you had bothered clicking on it earlier:
http://www.jns.org/news-briefs/2013/11/14/brandeis-criticized-for-partnership-with-palestinian-university-after-nazi-style-rally
More pics here:
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001406.html
Note that Sari Nusseibeh doesn't deny any of this, as you're attempting to do here.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Brandeis, America’s most well known Jewish university, initially declined to distance itself from the Nov. 5 Al Quds rally, which featured students dressed in black military gear and automatic weapons marching on the school’s campus while raising the traditional Nazi salute.
The Jewish university’s refusal to condemn the rally when approached last week by the Washington Free Beacon sparked a furious reaction from students, teachers, and pro-Israel activists on campus.
Al Quds officials initially distanced themselves from the rally, which was organized by the student branch of the terror organization Islamic Jihad.
However, after news of the rally spread through the Jewish and Israeli media, Al Quds publicly lashed out at the Free Beacon and other outlets, labeling them “Jewish extremists.”
http://freebeacon.com/brandeis-university-severs-ties-with-palestinian-al-quds-university/
yours cleaned it up
and here is more from TomGrossMedia
Will despots in Iran, Syria privately welcome Obama’s win? - See more at:
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001317.html#sthash.9k8PFYSZ.dpuf
Iran and Russia hardly believed their luck, as Obama did nothing - See more at:
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001371.html#sthash.8WCKZNs9.dpuf
shira
(30,109 posts)But you see yourself as a mainstream moderate advocating for peace and justice, against extremism.
Is that correct?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)When we bash individual Palestinians or Israelis for theirs, that's another.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=51667
Maybe Az is following yr lead from the thread about the Israeli singer who advocates burning Palestinians alive and destroying Jenin and everyone there in the same way yr following my lead and typing 'yr' instead of 'your' as a nod to Sonic Youth?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)hyperbolic descriptions not to mention sourced from antiObama Rightwingers
the salute is more common and Roman in origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salute#Roman_salute
we now also have a source posted that describes Nazi salutes and flags, are those Nazi flags?
?format=500w
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)There seems to be a tight ball of outrage developing and ready to blow in this thread, and I was just reading it and contrasting it with the very different reaction about the Israeli rapper who wanted to burn Palestinians alive. I'm expecting to have it yelled at me that's it's different when it comes to Palestinians because of the Culture Of Hate™ or there's very few individual Palestinians because they're all members of Hamas/Fatah/BDS/Nazi Party v2/FB groups that she's sure exists but hasn't seen or read yet.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)why the antiObama rightwing Tom Gross Media was linked to illustrate a picture-when indeed the same picture is at the source article for this OP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113451718#post13
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)It's revolting that anyone would use it here, but then again in this case it doesn't surprise me...
shira
(30,109 posts)....with that nazi-style rally. You appear to be in total denial of what happened there. You can't even find the words to condemn Sari Nusseibeh for his support of this rally.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)Where did I do that?
shira
(30,109 posts)And Brandeis' decision to sever ties?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)Why is this so difficult?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...in every country. We could post all day long about lone extremists in every nation.
Do you think what happened at Al-Quds is an extreme example that is in no way indicative of mainstream Palestinian ideology?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)I think I'm not the only person who noticed that somehow you think this is just so much more outrageous than someone calling for the burning alive of Palestinians...
shira
(30,109 posts)If you want to know how we feel, just ask.
But you'll note that when your team is asked about incidents like at Al-Quds and Sari Nusseibeh's reaction, there's a lot of denial and deflection going on. Israeli cited a recent article by your friend Richard Silverstein and he found nothing wrong with the Al-Quds rally. He had a lot to say about the bigoted rapper, didn't he? What happened at Al-Quds is mainstream, and much bigger and more important than what some idiot rapping bigot wrote on his stupid Facebook.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)So, seeing I've got no clue what the hell yr getting all outraged about in this thread, how about choosing to do the silent outrage thing you did for that Israeli rapper and letting us ask you what yr level of outrage is on this? After all, if we want to know how you feel, we just need to ask you and you don't have to express any outrage beforehand. It'd work for everyone!
btw, am I the only person wondering how you manage to *know* what everyone who posts here regularly thinks? It's just given yr rather creative 'mind-reading' skills when it's come to my views, I think I'd opt for the safer option of asking anyone else what they think if I want to know...
shira
(30,109 posts)There's no one here who supports that idiot rapper.
See the difference yet?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)Well, maybe you don't...
Uh, I didn't say anyone here supported that rapper. Not sure where yr flying off to with that, but I was pointing out that the whole outrage thing where there's multiple outraged posts in a thread condemning something is noticeably absent in that thread while yr going into hyperdrive in this thread. So I see that difference, as I'm sure quite a few others have...
I'll leave you to yr outrage and tomorrow I might even be bored enough to wade through and try and work out what and why yr so outraged. I suspect it'll all lead back to that Culture Of Hate™ thing, but when there's only repeats of US daytime drama to look forward to, I'll take anything...
Have a lovely day!
shira
(30,109 posts)It's the deflection, pointing to rightwingers who have a problem with it, Brandeis is wrong for some reason, etc.
I see that as support.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)See me? I'm an individual. I'm not a part of any team, organisation or group. See the others round here? Ask them and they'll tell you the same.
I could have sworn that you were only a post or two back going mad on me for taking something negative out of yr silence abou the Israeli rapper and pointing out the outrage-meter sat at 1 on that and soared off the scale for this one. My how things turn so quickly and now yr telling me what my silence means!
Actually, my silence means (not that yr interested in knowing) that I need to read a bit more about it in the morning when my eyes aren't playing up so much to check on something about the University itself. Apart from that, I'm just not seeing much to get outraged about that one University cut ties with another. They can do what they want...
Don't disappoint me while I slumber, Shira. I expect to return tomorrow to find a torrent of posts telling me what I think about things!
shira
(30,109 posts)...whether it's your teammates at Mondoweiss, EI, Tikun Olam, the ISM, BDS, PSC, or even your teammates here, then I'll re-evaluate. As it is, I take all these deflections (not silence) as tacit support. Silence means nothing, deflections tell me something else.
You can take 24-48 hours to assess the situation. I'd like to know yr thoughts.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)Blame it on my team, the LFWDGAS...
Okay, apart from not reading anything I said in the post yr replying to, otherwise you would have seen that I'm not part of any team, I see you've upgraded that rally to a NAZI RALLY, when that's not what it was...
Oh well. If you view someone saying they don't know enough to know what to think as 'deflection' and 'tacit support', who the fuck am I to tell you that yet again yr wrong?
shira
(30,109 posts)...to comment on it?
Really?
Why not just say you're against such a facist, hateful rally and are disappointed with Nusseibeh's official response to it? Why all the deflection?
shira
(30,109 posts)...or on Mondoweiss, Tikun Olam, the ISM, or ElectronicIntifada condemning this event or Sari Nusseibeh's official response to it.
What gives?
Such criticism would be extreme, RW, and bigoted?
wtf?
alp227
(32,006 posts)
Israeli
(4,139 posts)why is it that two American Jews, who both voted for Obama , both who call themselves Zionists...... see things in such a different way ?
I admit I'm totally confused , I just dont get it .
Ref :
Brandeis’ Shame: Severs Academic Ties with Palestinian University
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/
And as long as we’re discussing severing ties with academic institutions, might we consider whether Brandeis wants its example used to justify other universities who might sever their ties with Israeli universities whose faculty and research support Occupation and the national security state? What’s good for the goose…right?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)*note to anyone reading, this source appears to be virulently RW, as is the author of the article, though I'm pretty sure I remember Shira posting articles from him before. So, sorry for posting from a RW source, but I'm making a point not agreeing with it*
Some Jewish liberals got a terrible shock last week when British journalist Tom Gross broke a story about a fascist-style military rally held on the campus of Al Quds University. Al Quds is a Palestinian college located in Jerusalem and has had an academic partnership with both Brandeis University and Bard College in the United States. The rally was organized by the Al Quds branch of the Islamic Jihad group (though it was joined by much of the rest of the student body that joined the jihadi storm troopers in marching on an Israeli flag) and followed two other demonstrations sponsored by Hamas to honor suicide bombers at the school.
<snipped a bit of garden variety RW blah blah to get to the juicy bit>
If much of the discussion about the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians on college campuses and throughout the rest of the American liberal world seem so skewed it is not just because Israel is often unfairly smeared as an “apartheid state.” It is also because many Americans simply don’t know the first thing about contemporary Palestinian culture. Websites like Palestine Media Watch and Memri, which provide constant updates about what is broadcast and printed by Palestinian sources, could give them a quick lesson about how deeply hatred of Israel and the Jews is embedded in popular Palestinian culture as well as its politics. But those who bring up these unhappy facts are more often dismissed as biased extremists who don’t understand the Palestinians.
But the point about campus activities at Al Quds is that there is nothing exceptional about large groups of students demonstrating their hate for Israel and their devotion not to Palestinian nationalism but its extreme Islamist adherents such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad that call for the death of Jews. Such groups are not just welcome at Palestinian schools but an essential part of the fabric of student life as well as the general culture.
Thus, the shock here is not that Brandeis (if not Bard) has been alerted to the true nature of their partner and even a respected front man like Nusseibeh. Rather, it’s that it never occurred to anyone in authority at Brandeis that this was the inevitable result of any cooperation with Al Quds. If it had or if more American academics got their heads out of the sand and realized the cancer of hate that is still the dominating feature of Palestinian political culture, the assumption that Israel is the villain of the Middle East conflict might be challenged more often.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/20/what-americans-dont-know-about-palestine-terror-brandeis-al-quds/
OMG. That bit I bolded was just so delicious in the total lack of self-awareness the author has that he really is a bigoted extremist RW type...
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)
...of the PA, Hamas, or Al-Quds University and Sari Nusseibeh is also bigoted. It's no wonder these nazi rallies are met not only with silence by your 'team', but also deflections into bigotry, rightwingery, etc.
I'm wondering WRT this nazi rally just what exactly would be considered appropriate criticism.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)I said that bit involved a total lack of self-awareness by the writer...
Uh, that wasn't a Nazi rally. Do you have any clue what a Nazi rally is? Or do you just like sticking the word Nazi in there as much as possible when yr talking about Palestinians?
shira
(30,109 posts)Call it a fascist or whatever, rallying for the killing and transfer of Jews...
Do you agree with Nusseibeh's official response to Brandeis?
shira
(30,109 posts)Now you're backing down.
How exactly should he have properly condemned what went on there?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)The source is a conservative one. The author is a bigot, which you'd have noticed (maybe not) if you'd read some of his other 'offerings'. Anyone who talks about Islamophobia and calls it 'alleged Islamophobia' and 'Islamophobia myth' is a bigot. Pre-empting that you may argue otherwise, try replacing the word Islamophobia with anti-Semitism and see if you'd still disagree.
When hardline bigots like that takes it upon themselves to trumpet that they *know* all about Palestinian culture because they read stuff on the internet which proves to them that the Palestinian people are seething hatefilled anti-Semites, they're only going to appeal to their fellow travellers, not to people who actually are as interested in Palestinian culture as they are in Israeli culture.
shira
(30,109 posts)...but against Palestinians. Imagine the posters and pictures of Baruch Goldstein adorning the walls along with glorified photos of dead Palestinians. The students want more of the same. Goldstein and his fellow zombies are their heroes. And worse, the President of the University supports and does not in any way condemn it.
You don't believe that a foreign University working with this school would be correct in severing ties?
Israeli
(4,139 posts)ref : " why is it that two American Jews, who both voted for Obama , both who call themselves Zionists...... see things in such a different way ?
I admit I'm totally confused , I just dont get it . "
I would get it ...if you voted Republican .
shira
(30,109 posts)...with post- and anti- zionists than with zionists.
I could ask you why a post-zionist like yourself votes for a zionist political party when your views are closer to that of the anti-zionists.
Oh, and one more thing. Does your friend Richard Silverstein support Meretz? He's a zionist after-all, right?
Israeli
(4,139 posts)He is no more Israeli than you are .
You could ask me ....the answer would be the same as already given ..... do we have a choice ?
I would not describe Richard Silverstein as a friend shira ... my friends tend to be Israeli and not American .
I have no idea whether he supports Meretz or not ..... all I can tell you is that I am happy neither he or you gets to vote in our elections .
King_David
(14,851 posts)Much a pro Zionist , Israel supporting party that more than 75% of USA Jews call home .
I can't think of even one Democratic Party representative , Senator or Obama agreeing with an extremist marginal view like Silversteins.
And if you think different then indeed you are confused .
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)along the lines of what Brandeis has proposed? Do you think that all universities should sever ties with al quds?
shira
(30,109 posts)Syracuse University became the second American university, after Brandeis University, to sever its ties with Al-Quds University after a Nov. 5 protest on the Palestinian campus in which demonstrators used the traditional Nazi salute and honored "martyred" suicide bombers. Saying that the university "does not condone hatred or intolerance in any way," Syracuse announced that it would suspend the relationship between Al-Quds and its Institute for National Security and Terrorism. Meanwhile, Bard College said that it would continue its partnership with Al-Quds, which includes a joint master of arts in teaching program and a liberal arts college.
In a statement, Bard said that immediately following the protest, Al-Quds contacted the college “and provided an unequivocal denunciation of that protest, a clear condemnation that has since been repeated publicly, as recently as yesterday, by the university’s president, Sari Nusseibeh. Suggestions that the university administration condoned the actions of a very small group of students within a university of 12,000 are simply inaccurate.”
Read more: http://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2013/11/25/syracuse-cut-ties-al-quds-bard-keep-partnership#ixzz2lkbQbuCy
Inside Higher Ed
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and seem quite eager to blame 12,000 Palestinian students for the actions of a few - interesting
shira
(30,109 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)and just to be clear, if a Kahanist demonstration took place on an Israeli university calling for transfer of Arabs out of Israel, and the university administration did not denounce those views, you would support a boycott of that Israeli university?
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)And of course a similarly racist rally by Kahanists calling for the killing and transfer of Arabs should also be dealt with in the same way.
There's no room for fascist, racist calls to violence against any ethnic or racial group on a college campus. Just as American neo-nazis and klansmen shouldn't be offered a platform on a college campus to demonstrate their hatred, the same applies to the worst kahanists or jihadi groups.
The administration at the very least should be condemning it if they allow it all, while also allowing anti-racist groups to counter-protest at the same time. Nusseibeh wouldn't even do that.