Allow me to rain on the Prawer parade

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://972mag.com/allow-me-to-rain-on-the-prawer-parade/83543/

Right-wing members of Knesset thought they had gone out on a limb and had been too generous to the Bedouin by granting them so much compensation and allowing so many of them to stay on their own land. When they realized that neither side actually wanted this compromise, they invoked Bibi’s new favorite phrase, stolen from scary speeches about Iran and the Palestinians: No deal is better than a bad deal.

So what will happen next? The most right-wing government Israel has ever seen will draft a new plan, without the moderating voice of now-banished old guard Likudnik Benny Begin. It will be worse than Prawer-Begin. Much worse.

Or maybe there won’t even be a new plan. Maybe they’ll just quietly evict one village at a time without any master plan that offers financial compensation or new housing. Try organizing mass protests against that.

Mostly, the result will be that Israel’s poorest and most disenfranchised citizens will have even fewer chances to build a secure, let alone better future for their families. That would have been the case under Prawer and it will be the case in a world with no Prawer.

Given how the asshole Israel apartheid state treats the Palestinians I can only imagine that the author of the article has hit the nail on the head. If Israel wants the land then they will just tell the world to fuck off and take it piece by piece.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. and that Netanyahu likes it that way...

As do his apoligista bootlickers in I/P.

[brush]

3. "Given how the asshole Israel apartheid state treats the Palestinians . . ."

I never heard it articulated like that, Olivaw, but you nailed it.

It's time we call it what it is. Israel in its treatment of the Palestinians is the new apartheid South Africa.

[shira]

12. Odd how Mandela never saw Israel that way. n/t

[brush]

14. Links please . . .

And you might try this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113453644

The parallels to some of the apartheid practices are eye-opening and hard to believe.

Many in Israel are against these hardline practices as well. That needs to be mentioned.

[shira]

15. My point is Mandela never compared Israel to apartheid SA. Not once. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

23. Lots of other people are, shira, so who cares? Really?

A movement may begin but doesn't necessarily end with one person.

[shira]

26. Lots of people demonize for political and bigoted purposes. Mandela didn't.

He refused to exploit the tragedy of apartheid in order to score a few points with the wrong crowd. He knew well what demonizing an entire people was about, and he refused to play.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

28. I'll make it clear, shira, since I have communicated this to you already.

This nonsense of you continuing to make this thread about Mandella when it is about Prawer amounts to an attempt to hijack this thread.

If you want to discuss Prawer then do so, but if you keep on pushing this thread towards Mandella in order to derail it I will alert on you.

[oberliner]

4. "... the asshole Israel apartheid state"

Classy.

[King_David]

5. Classy

And revealing as to motivation ..

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. It must really suck when you hear

the hard truth.

[shira]

7. Mandela never said Israel was apartheid either within or outside the green line...

And he was no asshole.

I'm not certain you're interested in the hard truth.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. The hard truth is that I don't care.

And if you are making the statement then It is suspect.

[shira]

9. You won't find any statement from Mandela equating Israel to apartheid SA....

Deal with it.

Your arguments are bullshit.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

10. So what? The OP is about the BS Prawer pablum, not Mandela.

Last edited Sat Dec 14, 2013, 12:34 AM - Edit history (2)

If you are going to try and hijack a thread then you had better do a better job of it before you go on vacation.

[shira]

11. You had to demonize by bringing up apartheid. Mandela would never go that far....

He didn't feel the need to demonize and incite hatred against the Jewish state.

Of course, you don't care what Mandela said and he's far and away the most credible authoritative voice on the subject.

Vacation?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. For the logically challenged.

The OP was not about Mandella. Why you need to bring his name into it twice tells any passing DUers that your real interest is in hijacking this thread.

Vacation? Yes, Vacation. You've earned yourself one.

[shira]

18. You brought up the "asshole Israel apartheid state" in the OP. Did you forget? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

20. I didn't mention mandella. You might try to follow a cogent argument if you can,

but apparently you are having some issues with that today...or most every day.

Please stop trying to hijack this thread away from the Prawer plan Op or I will have to alert on you.

[shira]

21. I doubt you're really interested in discussing Prawer, so here's a test for your sincerity

Second, when Hiran was being planned, a little over a decade ago, there were only a few Bedouins there, if any. The move to Umm al-Hiran occurred mainly in the wake of the plans for the new town. Aerial photographs prove this.

How is removing these people racist and apartheid? They moved illegally into the area (it wasn't their land) after plans for the town had already been announced.

Let's see how interested you really are in discussing Prawer.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. Since removing the Bedouin and replacing them with Jewish settlements is both racist and

a clear act of apartheid, just like forcing Palestinians off their land to accommodate 500k illegal Israeli settlers, only the most callous or insincere individual would say otherwise.

Also dumping these Bedouins into a few crappy run-down towns, while again replacing their villages with Jewish settlements, is still racism.

But, please tell DU how erasing another set of people, Israeli citizens, to be replaced by another set of people isn't racist.


What Israel has been doing to the Bedouin and Palestinians is akin to the Indian Removal Act of 1830. It's overt racism.


A racist plan, made over a decade ago is still a racist plan: and anybody that would defend such a racist plan would probably feel quite at home under a white sheet and hood.

From the article.

Mostly, the result will be that Israel’s poorest and most disenfranchised citizens will have even fewer chances to build a secure, let alone better future for their families. That would have been the case under Prawer and it will be the case in a world with no Prawer.

That is not to say that anyone should have supported the Prawer Plan. It was/is a racist plan that would have displaced native Arab citizens for the benefit of Jewish settlement.

[shira]

25. In no way did you address the fact that in al-Hiran, the residents moved there AFTER the plan....

...was announced to build a settlement in what was then a desolate area. Israel offered to compensate people for land that wasn't theirs, with a settlement extremely close by. How is that racist and apartheid?

All you did was assert that the plan is racist and anyone who can't see that is in a white sheet and hood.

Not much of an argument there, which basically demonstrates that you're not at all interested in discussing Prawer. All you're interested in is tossing baseless accusations around that you cannot support.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

27. "How is that racist and apartheid?"

Try rereading what I wrote this time instead of denying it. The Bedouin were going to be removed from then land that you assert is not theirs, so that a Jewish settlement could be built on the ashes of what was once their homes; very much in the same way that the Palestinians have had to deal with Isrealis stealing their land piece by piece and calling it theirs to begin with as well.

Not much of an argument there, which basically demonstrates that you're not at all interested in discussing Prawer. All you're interested in is tossing baseless accusations around that you cannot support.

Seeing how Israel has backed off of Prawler for the time, due to its utter lack of morals and worldwide attention, only shows how flawed it was to begin with. But if you bothered to read the OP/article it asserts that Israel will just find another way to destroy the lives of these Bedouin so that they can build a Jewish settlement on the ashes of their former villages.

You'd be right at home in the old south.

[shira]

29. So when the plan was announced more than 10 years ago for a small Jewish settlement....

...in an area of the Negev that wasn't populated, that was racist and apartheid?

Or it only became so once a lot of Bedouin started moving in thereafter?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. A plan that is inherently racist, by an apartheid state which has show itself

to be inherently racist, is a plan built on the backs of the oppressed.

But thank you for pointing out that removing 40-70K bedouin, into a few crappy towns, will benefit a small number Jews.

If that isn't racism and ethnic cleansing then what is?

[shira]

31. You didn't answer. There were no Bedouin in that area of development 10 years ago....

Last edited Sun Dec 15, 2013, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

So please explain very clearly HOW this was a racist plan to ethnically cleanse the poor and oppressed 10 years ago if no one was living there at the time?

It's apparent that you think building any Jewish settlements anywhere (even if on barren Israeli government owned land) is a racist, oppressive affront to humanity. The next time Israel plans a Jewish community on empty government owned land within Israel...will you call that racist apartheid in action?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. Seriouly, shira, nobody believes you.

Nobody takes you seriously, and your twisting and turning to attempt to make racism appear benevolent and innocent is amazing in its callous and bigoted behavior.

Perhaps you shoul reevaluate you bankrupt position before you proceed further, Marse Robert.

[shira]

33. So to sum it up, you're not at all interested in seriously discussing Prawer...

Your position is that the next time Israel decides to build any settlement (whether for Jews, Christians, Druze) on barren, empty Israeli state land, they shouldn't b/c it's racist. No more communities should be built from now on...

You're a riot.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. No, Shira, my position is that you are not believable.

Furthermore, not only are you not believable, but your apparent attempts to nullify the Bedouins is very racist and colonial in nature.

I am glad that the Israeli government has backed off on its attempts to remove the Bedouins, but I also do not believe that they will hold off for very long.

Thank you for your apparent racially charged dialog

[shira]

13. Typical 972 garbage. Could've been written by someone typing away on a toilet. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

17. Well, perhaps you have some experience with tha? I must say, for my part,

that I really wouldn't know.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

24. Just as America has become an asshole, drone strike killing civillian monst, Wall Street ass licking

corporate fluffer, kick the poor to the curb bastard, Israel has its own sins to live up to.

Reality hurts doesn't it?