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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 06:57 PM

 

Mandela’s SA Boycott Success Sparks Israel Debate

JERUSALEM — Recent successes in the Palestinian campaign to boycott Jewish settlements have given fresh impetus to calls for sanctions against Israel like those that brought down apartheid in South Africa.

Since the European Union said it would block grants and funding for any Israeli entity operating over the 1967 lines, a growing number of international bodies have taken similar steps to cut ties, in a move that has sparked alarm in Israel.

"This has happened in recent days," commentator Chemi Shalev wrote in the newspaper Haaretz, listing a series of steps as proof that the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement was gaining ground.

"The Dutch water company Vitens severed its ties with Israeli counterpart Mekorot, Canada’s largest Protestant church decided to boycott three Israeli companies; the Romanian government refused to send any more construction workers; and American Studies Association academics are voting on a measure to sever links with Israeli universities," he wrote.

The boycott debate has been further stoked by the death on December 5 of Nelson Mandela as the world remembered his life’s work in pushing for a global boycott that contributed to bringing down the minority white government of Pretoria.

MORE...

http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/mideast/2013/12/16/mandelas-sa-boycott-success-sparks-israel-debate

61 replies, 6660 views

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Arrow 61 replies Author Time Post
Reply Mandela’s SA Boycott Success Sparks Israel Debate (Original post)
Purveyor Dec 2013 OP
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2013 #1
King_David Dec 2013 #7
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2013 #14
King_David Dec 2013 #15
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2013 #19
King_David Dec 2013 #26
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2013 #29
King_David Dec 2013 #30
Israeli Dec 2013 #2
azurnoir Dec 2013 #3
Israeli Dec 2013 #4
delrem Dec 2013 #5
King_David Dec 2013 #6
delrem Dec 2013 #8
King_David Dec 2013 #9
delrem Dec 2013 #10
King_David Dec 2013 #11
delrem Dec 2013 #12
King_David Dec 2013 #13
shira Dec 2013 #17
shira Dec 2013 #16
azurnoir Dec 2013 #27
azurnoir Dec 2013 #28
Israeli Dec 2013 #37
azurnoir Dec 2013 #52
Israeli Dec 2013 #57
shira Dec 2013 #18
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2013 #20
oberliner Dec 2013 #22
azurnoir Dec 2013 #23
oberliner Dec 2013 #42
azurnoir Dec 2013 #51
Purveyor Dec 2013 #24
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2013 #25
King_David Dec 2013 #34
oberliner Dec 2013 #35
King_David Dec 2013 #38
oberliner Dec 2013 #41
shira Dec 2013 #47
Israeli Dec 2013 #43
King_David Dec 2013 #48
King_David Dec 2013 #56
Israeli Dec 2013 #58
King_David Dec 2013 #59
Israeli Dec 2013 #60
Purveyor Dec 2013 #55
shira Dec 2013 #31
azurnoir Dec 2013 #21
shira Dec 2013 #32
azurnoir Dec 2013 #33
shira Dec 2013 #45
azurnoir Dec 2013 #46
King_David Dec 2013 #39
azurnoir Dec 2013 #50
King_David Dec 2013 #53
azurnoir Dec 2013 #54
Israeli Dec 2013 #36
King_David Dec 2013 #40
Israeli Dec 2013 #44
King_David Dec 2013 #49
shira Dec 2013 #61

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 12:54 AM

1. An unsanitary mouthpiece has informed me that the problems within Israel are best

 

viewed by looking outside of Israel. In that way you will see that Israel isn't the problem.


From the article.

"It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the BDS movement is picking up speed. And the writing on the wall, if anyone missed it, only got clearer and sharper in the wake of the death of Nelson Mandela," Mr Shalev argued.

And global scrutiny of Israel’s ties with the apartheid regime in the 1970s and 1980s only served to give "valuable ammunition to those who would equate the two.

"More ominously, from an Israeli point of view, the analogy between today’s Israel and yesterday’s South Africa could also stoke a belief that the former can be brought to its knees in much the same way as the latter was in the late 1970s and early 1980s," he added.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:10 AM

7. Boycotting Jews and Jewish institutions

And Jewish businesses is not a 21st century new phenomenon ....

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Response to King_David (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:42 AM

14. You apparently have a problem

 

spelling "Israel."

but please, victim on...

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 12:20 PM

15. You are 100% correct, Jews are not a victim no longer

Not since 1948

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Response to King_David (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:57 PM

19. Please see post #14 if you wish to continue with your whining streak.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:41 PM

26. Since the creation of The Jewish State

The people of Israel or Bnai Yisrael are no longer victims ... Not since 1948 .

Strong Jews ... No longer novel..

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Response to King_David (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:36 PM

29. #14 dave, #14...

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:53 PM

30. Maybe get someone to explain to you nt

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Response to Israeli (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 02:44 AM

3. I must say I am surprised by this move

but little by little

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:33 AM

4. I'm not surprised azurnoir....

ref : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3516193,00.html

"I supported the boycott because I believe that without pressure, Israel will not end the occupation. Even before then I reached the conclusion that the peace process enables Israel to stall for time. When in 2003 several international organizations approached me and asked whether I would support the boycott I replied positively.

"I believe that things would change only if Israel receives a strong message that as long as the occupation continues it would not be a legitimate member of the international community, and that until then its academics, doctors and authors would not be welcome. A similar boycott was imposed on South Africa. It took 21 years, but it eventually led to the end of Apartheid."


last time I attended a lecture by Ilan Pappe he told us it was inevitable .

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Response to Israeli (Reply #4)


Response to delrem (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:39 AM

6. Mount Sinai hospital in Toronto

Was established because Jewish doctors couldn't get internships , residencies and privileges in the other hospitals.

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Response to King_David (Reply #6)


Response to delrem (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:13 AM

9. Rubbish , it never stopped.

German Jews said it had stopped in 1935 and now Israeli ( a Jew ) said it's stopped in 2013.

Homophobia hasn't stopped neither and nor has racism.

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Response to King_David (Reply #9)


Response to delrem (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:46 AM

11. Yes that's a typical response

That we need deal with .

Indeed nothing changes...

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Response to King_David (Reply #11)


Response to delrem (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:25 AM

13. This is not a new thing

We are hearing this for many many years and actually in a way your right , the only reason that Jews are no longer weak little "victims" and equals in the world and strong in Hollywood , Wall Street and a big influence in The White House is the existence of the State of Israel as the Jewish State...

Strong Jews ... Who would of thought this in 1940?

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Response to delrem (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 02:51 PM

17. Nah, we're not going back to victim status. Those days are over....

 

And it's attitudes here that demonstrate just why Israel is needed.

BDS won't work, sorry to say. Simply put, Jews aren't willing to slit their own throats. You'll need a better plan to bring down Israel.

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Response to delrem (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 02:42 PM

16. This isn't about equality of persons. Who are you kidding?

 

Are women, gays, blacks, and christians equal under Hamas or PA rule in the territories?

Is there a push to make that so? Nope.

Why would you think everyone would be equal in a greater Palestine with a Jewish minority?

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Response to Israeli (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:11 PM

27. I still am surprised SA did not have the support network within the US that Israel does

I expect the push back from this to be ugly very ugly

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 05:30 AM

37. here to :

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4466592,00.html

" Deputy FM Elkin says ASA is 'radical leftist group' "

I'd never heard of them before yesterday azurnoir ..... whats your take on ASA ?

BTW I have just read this :

http://www.theasa.net/from_the_editors/item/council_statement_on_the_academic_boycott_of_israel_resolution/

thank goodness for this ....

The resolution does not apply to individual Israeli scholars engaged in ordinary forms of academic exchange, including conference presentations, public lectures at campuses, or collaboration on research and publication. The Council also recognizes that individual members will act according to their convictions on these complex matters.





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Response to Israeli (Reply #37)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:31 PM

52. Isn't Elkin himself a settler?

my take is they are brave very brave because they will be denounced as we can plainly see, but extreme Leftist no more so than Stephen Hawking

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 04:59 AM

57. yes .

" but extreme Leftist no more so than Stephen Hawking "

thanks ... thats what I was guessing .

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Response to Israeli (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 02:58 PM

18. As Noam Chomsky said, this BDS that singles out only Israel is antisemitic

 

BDS is hypocritical to the high heavens. Anything that targets Israel alone can be attacked as antisemitism and "unfortunately this is with justice". It harms the "whole movement" It harms the Palestinians and this is so obvious it is probably intentional. It is a gift to the Israeli hardliners and their American supporters. "You may as well just join AIPAC and be done with it".




I always get a kick out of "leftwing" progressives who cheer on bigotry.

And as Chomsky effectively argues, this hurts the Palestinian cause. It's too easy to dismiss this lunacy as antisemitism. You guys are just going too far in your demonization attempts. Instead of Israeli universities, why not target just the settlements? But no...hate blinds. The BDS crowd cannot help but overreach.

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Response to shira (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:01 PM

20. Just for the record so everybody can see that you are a hypocrite...

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=224043&mesg_id=224178

shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. chomsky...

has a history with holocaust deniers and has been quoted as saying holocaust denial is not anti-semitism. He cannot be taken seriously on any matters concerning Jews.

What's fascinating is that you linked to a youtube video on 911 "fake planes". Do you take that crap as seriously as you do Chomsky?


The internet remembers all hypocrites, Shira.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:48 PM

22. That post is from 2008

 

It's over 5 years old.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:54 PM

23. yes and the one shira panders so endlessly is from 2010 just months after Chomsky ETA

was temporarily denied entry to Israel anything else?

here's shira on that incident-

shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
53. It's Israel's gain. They're going to copy Chomsky's passport and use it for another Dubai...

....in the near future.




One positive way to look at this is that Israel's just as likely to ban Jews as Palestinians from Israel/W.Bank.

So these decisions aren't really "racist".


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x312745

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 08:30 AM

42. Minds could have been changed

 

Who can say?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #42)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:27 PM

51. perhaps don't know about Chomsky or to be honest much care

as I said I found his attitude towards Palestinians patronizing

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:55 PM

24. Nice find or bookmarking. I'm impressed and might call upon you for 'research' in the future.

 

5 or 6 years ago I used to take such efforts of documenting but have grown tired. Glad to see someone else now has the interest.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:22 PM

25. I can't take credit for it. I have to thank the ever vigilant

 


who watch the hypocrite like a hawk. I bookmarked it a while ago.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:37 AM

34. A very very very important endeavor

And I'm sure a lot of people will thank you for your very brave and tireless effort in making sure the 12 people posting and reading this forum remain honest.

A great personal sacrifice of time . I am sure you will receive well deserved international recognition for this important work .

Keep it up, we all applaud you ...

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Response to King_David (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:50 AM

35. The 12 of us should all get together for a meal

 

A DU I/P summit!

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Response to oberliner (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 07:52 AM

38. Aroma has good food , salads and beer

And they expanding at a rapid rate despite BDS ... Let's all eat there?

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Response to King_David (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 08:22 AM

41. Maybe some of us can eat salad while others chant catchy BDS slogans?

 

That could be quite a happening.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:47 PM

47. Where r we meeting for this feast? Boston, NY, Tel Aviv? n/t

 

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Response to Israeli (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:03 PM

48. They all over Miami now and recently

I was in Toronto and they all over there..

A real Israeli success story into Notth American markets-- Kol Hakavod

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Response to Israeli (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 11:28 PM

56. I love Shenkin street ..

I'll take you for dinner in February if you want .. My treat... I'll even pick you up from the Kibbutz and drop you off home after?

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Response to King_David (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 06:33 AM

58. thanks ....

but no thanks King_David ..... we " elitists " tend to keep ourselves to ourselves .

apart from that what exactly do you expect to gain from us meeting ????

Quote : " I will be automatic rank of Lietenant and able to order cute straight

army boys around...."

you dont want me knowing who you are King_David ....I will end your army career before it even begins .




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Response to Israeli (Reply #58)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 08:41 AM

59. The gain would be for me to help you see the light

Before you stray too far .

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Response to King_David (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:59 PM

60. and what " light " would that be ?

and what do you consider straying " too far " King_David ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 07:43 PM

55. I'll grant you that only about 12 people post on this forum. Thread views are more telling when

 

it comes to how much this forum is read.

This thread has 541 views and I don't see the 'group of 12' pumping it up that high by themselves.

Thanks for playing just the same...

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:14 AM

31. Nothing hyocritical about it. You and yours take Chomsky seriously...

 

The point is that as hostile as he is to Israel, even Chomsky admits BDS is bullshit.

I could quote Abbas on rejecting BDS too. It doesn't mean I support Abbas.

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Response to shira (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:44 PM

21. what Chomsky really argued was that hardline supporters of Israel would latch on to BDS

as antisemitism and be creative of such a gaseous cloud of stink that the entire meaning and motives movement would be lost in it, I see your doing your part in that creation-so just how much political bean and cabbage soup must one consume to accomplish that?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:25 AM

32. Chomsky also said if u really hate Palestinians, then be hypocritical & just single Israel out....

 

You're doing a great job, BTW.

Chomsky says u may as well join AIPAC and be done with it.

He says BDS is not an initiative of the Palestinians, who won't even boycott settlement products - much less an Israeli University.

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Response to shira (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:00 AM

33. NO that is not what he said at all RU really depending on no one watching the vid?

seems like it what he said was that due to the stink and false accusation (see mirror) that would be created it would ultimately hurt the Palestinians actually I found his attitude towards the Palestinians rather patronizing

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:13 PM

45. He clearly says that in the video. Anyone can watch for themselves. n/t

 

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Response to shira (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:41 PM

46. yes indeed they can and hopefully they will :)

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 07:54 AM

39. Most of it IS AntiSemitism nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:14 PM

50. well you're entitled to your opinion n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #50)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 04:52 PM

53. It's not opinion nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #53)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 05:14 PM

54. really? it's a solid proven fact?

in your opinion

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Response to shira (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 04:28 AM

36. ...........

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Response to Israeli (Reply #36)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 07:57 AM

40. Thanks for all the links and recommendations

Appreciate them all, you are like a human Google.

But we prefer hear your actual opinion than have to watch a few videos , read a few dissertations of Avrum Burg or Shulamit Aloni to find out what Israeli thinks.

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Response to King_David (Reply #40)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:58 AM

44. you are welcome King_David....

my apologies ....

its difficult competing with someone who visits now and then on a tourist visa ... compared to living here for 63 years

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Response to Israeli (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:10 PM

49. No problem ,I really do respect that actually

And of course you have your pride in the country , I am proud of your country too. Proud of the track record with respect to the Gay file , pride of the multiple success and proud of you and your family's service to the country ...

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 09:12 PM

61. Mandela the Zionist...

 

As a movement, we recognise the legitimacy of Palestinian nationalism just as we recognise the legitimacy of Zionism as a Jewish nationalism. We insist on the right of the state of Israel to exist within secure borders but with equal vigour support the Palestinian right to national self-determination.

http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4096

Mandela.

Zionist.




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