Lieberman: Israel must give Kerry's peace efforts a chance

[King_David]

The foreign minister views his American counterpart’s efforts as the most genuine any U.S. administration has made to forge a final-status deal since former President Bill Clinton convened the Camp David summit in 2000.

Several people who have met with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in recent weeks were very surprised by his positive statements about U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. Two of them, a senior Israeli official and a Western...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.566576


[link:http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.562455.1388615104!/image/108965278.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_474/108965278.jpg|

[Jefferson23]

1. Interesting, the deal is sanctioned by Lieberman....if this does not shake up Abbas

not sure what else would.

[King_David]

2. Yes I know,

Was so strange I decided to post it even though I could not read the whole article.

[Jefferson23]

3. Lieberman: Kerry's offer is best Israel will get

But for deal to win his party's support, it must include transfer of Israeli Arab towns to Palestinian sovereignty, says FM.
By Barak Ravid | Jan. 6, 2014 | 1:34 AM

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Sunday that Israel must accept U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s proposal for a framework agreement with the Palestinians since “any other proposal from the international community won’t be as good.”

But Lieberman also said that his party, Yisrael Beiteinu, would not support any agreement that did not include transferring Israeli Arab towns in Wadi Ara and the Triangle region to Palestinian sovereignty.

Lieberman made the comments during his speech at the annual ambassadors’ conference Sunday, as Kerry travelled back and forth between Jerusalem and Ramallah in an attempt to forge an understanding regarding the framework agreement. The secretary of state visited Jordan Sunday as well, where he met with King Abdullah, then continued on to Riyadh to meet with Saudia Arabia’s King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz. Kerry tried to enlist the support of the two nations and, through them, the backing of the Arab League for the framework agreement that will most likely present in full in late January.

Lieberman and Kerry met on Friday morning and spoke about Lieberman’s upcoming speech, among other topics. The Americans knew that Lieberman would include a positive message in his address to the ambassadors, but were surprised at the extent of support the minister expressed for Kerry’s proposals. A senior American official stated that the remarks Lieberman made are evidence that Netanyahu would have strong political backing should he decide to accept Kerry’s framework agreement.

Addressing the ambassadors gathered at the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem, Lieberman spoke almost entirely without looking down at his notes – until he reached the part about the peace process. Then, he took the pages in his hand, and read word for word. “I most certainly support a true, sustainable, and comprehensive agreement,” said Lieberman. “Even with all of the doubts in my heart regarding the true intentions of the other side, dialogue between us is important. Even when we disagree, when we don’t really trust one another, the ability to engage in dialogue and live our joint lives in a reasonable way is of the utmost importance.”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.567228

[oberliner]

4. Be curious to see a survey of Palestinian citizens of Israel

I think there may even have been one a few years ago.

With the creation of a Palestinian state, would they prefer to remain Israeli citizens or would they prefer to be Palestinian citizens?

[Jefferson23]

5. I would be curious too, although I think that may be jumping the gun, at this point.

I am very curious about the events of late..Lieberman giving his thumbs up
is a major red flag to me as well as Kerry's visit with the Saudi's.

Time will tell, I guess.

[oberliner]

7. Agreed

Sadly, I don't really see any of this going anywhere.

[Jefferson23]

8. Seems like Bibi is confident Abbas will not take their case to the ICC. n/t

[oberliner]

9. Netanyahu is counting on Abbas refusing to recognize Israel as the Jewish state

I think Abbas should call his bluff. Come out and say he will recognize Israel as the Jewish state. That would be a game changer without any actual concessions other than rhetorical ones.

[Jefferson23]

10. But it would be more than precarious for Abbas to do it. Too risky, there would need

to be written agreements that would ensure this would not interfere with a political
negotiation on RoR/compensation. That it would not interfere with the rights of Arab Israeli's.


Bibi is using rhetoric to blame the Palestinians if/when the peace talks fail, he knows, as you
say, he is counting on the refusal. Kerry should not have agreed to include such a thing, imo.

[shaayecanaan]

11. They'll just pocket that concession like they have all the others...

and find something else to screw him over on.

[oberliner]

13. What is the point of negotiating then?

Why even take part in these talks?

[shaayecanaan]

19. To try and extract concessions from the other side...

Mandela made no concessions except as part of a final status agreement. He didnt even relinquish the right to violence, unless the apartheid government were prepared to do so.

Smart guy that Mandela.

[oberliner]

20. What concessions have the Palestinians extracted so far?

Do you feel like the negotiations from Oslo forwarded have yielded positive results?

[Jefferson23]

6. Spat erupts in cabinet over future of peace talks amid Palestinian incitement

An argument erupted Sunday between Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon during a cabinet meeting on the subject of Palestinian Authority incitement against Israel. Livni and Ya’alon reportedly argued over the future of the peace process with the Palestinians. Ya’alon argued that as long as the Palestinians refuse to make changes to school textbooks, it will be impossible to make peace, while Livni claimed that incitement should push Israel to separate from the Palestinians completely.

The topic of Palestinian Authority incitement was not originally included in the meeting’s agenda, it was only added after a tense meeting that took place over the weekend between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. Netanyahu, seeking to reintroduce the issue of incitement in order to influence Kerry’s talks with the two sides regarding a possible framework agreement, asked Strategic and Intelligence Affairs Minister Yuval Steinitz to prepare a briefing to present before the cabinet on Sunday.

During the meeting, which lasted over two hours, Strategic Affairs Ministry Director General Yossi Kuperwasser presented a “Palestinian incitement index.” The index, which was formed in 2009, is an attempt to discern the amount of incitement against Israel among the Palestinian Authority, primarily by examining media publications.

The cabinet was briefed on information from the last few months, during which peace negotiations have been ongoing. The Prime Minister’s Office showed that incitement against Israel within official Palestinian Authority media as well as other entities associated with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has continued. In addition, incitement against Israel is also prevalent in the Palestinian education system and within mosques as well. “During the negotiation period, incitement has not gone down, and has even increased in certain areas,” read a statement from the Prime Minister’s Office.

According to the Prime Minister’s Office, the briefing presented to the ministers on Sunday included evidence that official Palestinian Authority media outlets relay that Israel has no right to exist, and that the Jewish people have no claim to the Holy Land. In addition, other messages prevalent in Palestinian media include that Israel’s disappearance is inevitable, and expected to happen soon, as Jews are sub-human creatures that must be dealt with accordingly, and that all kinds of resistance, including terror, are legitimate means of achieving the final goal.

Most ministers present in the meeting criticized the Palestinian Authority in light of the reports. Ya’alon, whose criticism was harshest of all, stated that since he served as commander of the Israel Defense Forces West Bank division 22 years ago, there has been no change in the education of Palestinian youngsters. “An integral part of Israeli education is aspirations toward peace,” said Ya’alon. “That doesn’t exist in the Palestinian Authority… it’s only worsened.”

Ya’alon also stated that until Palestinian Authority ceases incitement, there can be no progress toward peace, nor the removal of any IDF forces from the West Bank. Ya’alon added that the security arrangements being proposed by Kerry are irrelevant as long as incitement against Israel continues. “It all starts with education – if education is nonexistent, then no technology that can solve the problem,” said Ya’alon, hinting at the American security proposal.

Only Livni, and Environmental Protection Minister Amir Peretz differed in opinion from the rest of the cabinet ministers. Livni stated that the harsh incitement against Israel within the Palestinian Authority only accentuates the need to reach a diplomatic agreement, and cut off ties. “It’s a difficult reality, but it is not a reason to stop working toward an agreement,” said Livni. “Palestinian incitement is a threat. It’s terrible to teach children to hate. Therefore, I don’t understand those here who do not want to reach an agreement. It’s our responsibility to act and create a solution, not just grumble over our fate, and complain that they hate us and incite against us.”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.567174

[shaayecanaan]

12. We cant reach an agreement without changes to school textbooks...

fucking pathetic really.

Bear in mind that these are the same textbooks that have already been audited multiple times by the US State Department. There's no antisemitism in them, although a fair bit of parochialism, the US considered them not as good as the Israeli mainstream textbooks but better than the textbooks used in the Haredi sector.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

14. Palestinian incitement index. What a hoot.

There are 500k Israeli harassment indexes living illegally in the West Bank.

You said it well. "fucking pathetic really."

[Jefferson23]

15. That's right. I want to search for a review that was done, not long ago on this

very topic..I do believe Abbas agreed to and changes were made. As I recall,
Israel's government did not agree. I'll post it when I find it.

[Jefferson23]

16. I thought this was a very good review, from a few years ago:

Part I - Education as Indoctrination

Over the last ten years there have been periodic outbursts of rage over the alleged anti-Semitic nature of Palestinian textbooks. Most of these episodes have been instigated by an Israeli based organization called the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (AKA the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education). According to one Israeli journalist, Akiva Eldar, the Center does sloppy work. It "routinely feeds the media with excerpts from "Palestinian" textbooks that call for Israel’s annihilation...[without] bothering to point out that the texts quoted in fact come from Egypt and Jordan." The Center’s conclusions have been corroborated only by other Israeli institutions such as Palestinian Media Watch.

http://www.nationofchange.org/blogs/lawrence-davidson/education-and-behavior-israel-and-palestine-1313247360


on edit: snip*WHAT should Israel do about a report claiming that Israelis and Palestinians delegitimise each other in their schools? Delegitimise the report, is the response from the Israeli side. Sounding more amenable, Salam Fayyad, the Palestinians’ prime minister, asked for help to improve the curriculum.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/pomegranate/2013/02/israeli-and-palestinian-textbooks

[LeftishBrit]

17. Whaaat! Is the current spate of cold weather extending to Hades?

I bet this doesn't last long; best make use of it while it does!

[azurnoir]

22. oh not to worry Hades is still hot and Lieberman wants to transfer Israeli-Arabs to Palestine

from the article albeit not included in the snip

But Lieberman also said that his party, Yisrael Beiteinu, would not support any agreement that did not include transferring Israeli Arab towns in Wadi Ara and the Triangle region to Palestinian sovereignty.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Wish they'd get rid of Lieberman.

I know he was acquitted; but there are other requirements for a Foreign Secretary besides just NOT being in prison.

[azurnoir]

25. Lieberman: Arabs who want to remain Israeli are suddenly 'lovers of Zion'

Nonetheless, said Lieberman, the notion of swapping populations and land was not a new one, and had been employed in the past to bring an end to conflicts, and "for the creation of homogenous states."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4474643,00.html

sadly Netanyahu held Lieberman's position as Foreign Minister open for him pending the verdict

[oberliner]

24. Transfering sovereignty to the new Palestinian state

Last edited Wed Jan 8, 2014, 07:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Land swaps, not population transfer.

Palestinian citizens of Israel can be Palestinian citizens, period.

The notion of land swaps is part of the Geneva Initiative that liberals and progressives, Israeli, Palestinian, and international, have supported (including former President Cater).

[shaayecanaan]

18. This must be a pretty shit deal for the Palestinians

if Lieberman is endorsing it.

[Jefferson23]

21. All the agendas out there, the Palestinians are about to get screwed, even more than I

had thought...no one will stand with them?? I was like, what the hell. The Arab League
already agreed on land swaps, now this, too?

Kerry asks Saudis, Jordan to support Palestinian recognition of Israel as Jewish state

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.567533