Boycott = anti-Semitism? Some Israelis avoid settlement products too.

[Israeli]

Long before Scarlett Johansson came under international fire for promoting the West Bank SodaStream factory, these Israelis were getting their seltzer elsewhere.
And long before world Jewish leaders pronounced the international boycott movement anti-Semitism in its latest manifestation , these Israelis steered clear of products sold by Jewish-owned businesses located beyond the country’s internationally recognized borders.
It’s hard to know their exact numbers, but they are boycotters too, many for as long as they can remember: These Israelis do not, as a matter of principle, buy goods or produce from Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.

(snip)

In 2006, Gush Shalom, the peace activist group headed by Uri Avnery, published a list of several hundred products made in areas beyond the Green Line. The list, comprised of many food products, also includes businesses operating in the Golan Heights. Among the best-known names on the list, aside from SodaStream, are the Ahava skin-care products manufacturer and the Golan Wineries.

In July 2011 the Knesset passed the so-called “anti-boycott law,” which penalizes persons or organizations who call for a boycott of Israel or the settlements. A group of human rights and minority rights organizations, including Gush Shalom, petitioned the High Court of Justice saying it was unconstitutional, and a first hearing in the case was held last week.

After the law was passed, Gush Shalom, concerned that it might be sued for heavy damages under the law, removed the list from its website. But that same list is being hosted today on the website of the Israeli social-democratic movement.

continue reading @
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.575929

[aranthus]

1. Now let's get real.

Does the global BDS movement call for boycotting settlement products or all of Israel? Do the various western boycotts call for boycotting settlement products and institutions or all of those that are Israeli? You know the answer is that they boycott anything Israeli, and so does Ha'aretz. You and Ha'aretz also know that the global BDS movement calls for full right of return, something the movement knows would end the Jewish state of Israel. So how do boycotts by Jews in Israel of settlement products exonerate anyone who supports global BDS from the charge of antisemitism?

[azurnoir]

2. would there today be a BDS movement without Israel's occupation of the Palestine?

Last edited Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)

would Germany, Holland, Denmark, Norway and now Luxemburg be pulling their business from Israeli banks?

[aranthus]

4. Yes, there likely would.

It would still be aimed at achieving right of return, and it would emphasize the supposed apartheid nature of Israel proper. The war isn't going away if Israel ends the occupation. Do you recognize that there is a difference between boycotting settlements and boycotting Israel until it agrees to RoR?

[azurnoir]

6. Who's boycotting Israel until it agrees to RoR again?

you NEED to only look at the most extreme scenario I suspect that somehow justifies something for you but what I wonder-as you've been told first Israel already rules over an Arab majority, it simply treats non-Jews living in the West Bank and in Israel as second class to varying degrees with the most extreme being in the West Bank

secondly after Israel withdraws from the West Bank and a peace plan is drawn up the BDS with what you claim their aim is to destroy Israel via an Arab majority or simply changing the demographics of Israel will wither

How one must note the claim about destroying Israel so closely resembles both those of White South African Pro-Apartheidists and American pro-segregationists that it's difficult to tell their philosophies apart

BTW both apartheid and segregation ended and it seems bothh South Africa and the US are still quite intact

[aranthus]

10. The Global BDS Movement

You keep claiming that this is the extreme scenario, but it's virtually the only scenario. When Abbas told the West that he didn't intend to flood Israel with 5 million refugees he was rebuked by his own people because they claim that the correct number is 8 million.

[Jefferson23]

15. His own people? Which group are you referring to that speak for the Palestinians with their blessing

There will be no full RoR, never was going to be..they are lucky if they get anything, at this point.

[aranthus]

19. I thought this was posted before.

Though I can't find it right now. Anyway, here's the link. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4184/palestinian-refugees-return

[Jefferson23]

20. He can certainly recognize how useless Abbas is, but Huwaidi has no political power, aranthus.

[aranthus]

27. You're right, but Abbas doesnt' really have much either, at least not on this issue.

The fact is that there is a sizeable portion of Palestinian society that wants exactly what Huwaidi wrote.

[Jefferson23]

28. And? There is nothing unexpected about that..the point is, it was not ever going to happen.

BDS is a strange bird...there is really no official recognition of one said voice that
speaks with the blessings of the Palestinian people.

It is a mess, their leadership sold them out long ago. It is not that I believe there is
no justification for BDS, as long as the goal was in line with UN resolutions leaving
two states.. a viable state for the Palestinians. I don't see that happening, which
will be tragic for them if it turns out that way.

[aranthus]

32. No official voice?

How about the people who started and run the movement? How about Omar Barghouti? The goal of BDS was never in line with two states. Okay maybe an Arab state with no Jews called Palestine and an Arab state with a Jewish minority called who the hell cares what.

Okay, right of return is never going to happen because Israel won't allow it. But just because Israel won't let itself be killed doesn't make it okay for BDS to call for things that will kill it. Can you see how that would be counterproductive to the cause of peace? Israel isn't getting anything concrete for pulling out of the West Bank; only Palestinian promises of peace. Those promises don't sound very credible when they are joined with the continuing demand for right of return.

[Jefferson23]

34. Nope, they do not have any one official voice. If you look at who takes part in BDS, you'll see

that. Israel won't allow? No UN resolution ever called for it, it has called for a means to resolve it
for years involving both sides. BDS is all over the place, so no..it was not going to gain momentum without a
clear call for two states and it didn't gain traction. Israel freaking out about it in the past was stupid.

BDS via Kerry/EU is another matter..what they are doing is threatening
what will transpire if they don't go along on his plan...which favors Israel..but a percentage
of Bibi's far right fanatics believe they will be left out in the cold..ironic. Nothing could be
further from the truth from what I have read.

[Dick Dastardly]

8. These countries are not pulling their business from Israeli banks,

only a small number of firms from these countries that can be counted on your hand are. They represent a minuscule amount of total business being done. All in all the firms that operate in the OT only account for less than 1% of Israel/EU trade anyway.
Some firms like the huge Deutsche Bank AG denied any such reports of it divesting its business, and some firms stated there is no reason to do so. The largest of the firms Danske Bank was exposed for its hypocrisy as it does business with N Korea such as its financing a N Korea ballistic missile sale to Iran.









Dutch pension fund says no reason to boycott Israeli banks

Dutch pension fund ABP, one of the largest pension funds in the world, announced on Wednesday that after looking into the matter it sees no reason to end its relationship with three Israeli banks.

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Giant-Dutch-pension-fund-ABP-declares-no-reason-to-exclude-Israeli-banks-340468





The threat of Israel boycotts more bark than bite

Clip
However, divestment moves by the likes of Danske Bank appear to be the exception rather than the norm.

Germany's biggest lender Deutsche Bank AG denied reports last week that it was set to boycott Israeli banks, while the giant Dutch pension fund ABP announced this month that after a review, it saw no need to cut ties with Israeli banks.

All the while, foreign firms continue to pour into Israel. According to the latest Bank of Israel data, direct investment was $10.51 billion in the first nine months of 2013, up from $9.5 billion for the whole of 2012. Exports to Europe rose 6.3 percent last year.

Global brands such as Google, Cisco, Microsoft, Twitter, Apple, AOL and Facebook have all invested in Israel, so, like it or not, users of computers, smartphones and apps could well be supporting Israeli engineering.

"All the talk about boycotts has not so far caused any damage to our economy," Uriel Lynn, president of the Israeli Chambers of Commerce, told Reuters.

"Israel has gone through much harsher boycotts in the past. For example, we did not have commercial relations with China for years, and for a time we could only buy crude oil from Mexico and Egypt. So we can definitely withstand boycotts."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/23/us-palestinians-israel-boycott-analysis-idUSBREA1M0OI20140223

[azurnoir]

9. PGGM is boycotting Israeli banks doing business in the West Bank your little piece mentions ABP

a different company but do keep up the denials let's see what happens eh?

[Dick Dastardly]

18. You claimed those countries were boycotting Israeli banks doing business in the West Bank.

I showed it was a blatently false claim as it was none of those countries but just a few firms from those countries(representing a miniscule amount of business) that were boycotting.

What about PGGM, are you trying to claim PGGM is Holland?
My ABP article mentions PGGM and their decision to boycott but PGGM is not Holland which is who you claimed was boycotting, so whats your point about PGGM?

Its not me in denial.

[azurnoir]

21. No I claimed businesses from those countries were boycotting Israel

however I do understand the need to exaggerate

[Jefferson23]

16. I believe you are correct, somewhat...US/EU using threat that BDS will take over if Bibi does not

cooperate...that is their strategy...but there will be no need for concern about BDS once he agrees to the Kerry Plan.

That is my understanding of the situation, presently.

[Israeli]

13. You get real ....

Gush Shalom which had called for a boycott of settlement products since its inception, is directly targeted by this law. For the past three years, it has conducted activities under the overhanging threat of heavy lawsuits. In its appeal, Gush Shalom asserts that "The Boycott Law is unconstitutional and anti-democratic, as it violates freedom of expression, the right to equality and other fundamental rights of the citizens of Israel", that these rights are violated in a disproportionate way, and the launching of a consumer boycott is a legitimate part of democratic discourse, whose use should not be limited.

'The boycott of the settlements and their products is not simply an issue of the foreign relations of the State of Israel and its deteriorating standing in the international community. This is also and especially an internal Israeli issue, touching directly on the future of Israel and on the debate which is cutting Israeli society down the middle for the past forty seven years " says former Knesset Member Uri Avnery." A major part of the Israeli public is completely opposed to the settlement project, regarding it as a moral stain and a political disaster which perpetuates the oppression of the Palestinians and blocks Israeli citizens from achieving peace with their neighbors. It is the full right of those who oppose the settlements to express their strong objection by any democratic means, including and especially a boycott campaign.

It is the right of concerned citizens to refrain from funding with their shopping money the settlements to which they are strongly opposed. Just as religious citizens are entitled to have a 'watchdog' charged with alerting them that certain foods are not kosher under the criteria of Jewish religious dietary laws, so are peace seekers entitled to have their own watchdog alerting them that certain products originate at a settlement in Occupied Territory, even when manufacturers and shippers try to obscure and conceal from consumers the origin of the product. Gush Shalom has acted as such a watchdog for more than ten years. We published lists of products originating in the settlements and our activists distributed them at public events and at the entrances to supermarkets, until the initiators of the ‘Boycott Law' set out to gag us..

'The Boycott Law created a situation of clear and blatant discrimination. In the State of Israel it is allowed to publish the names of restaurants and shops selling non-kosher products and call upon the public not to buy there. Not only is it allowed, but the boycott on non-kosher products is funded by the Israeli taxpayer. Via the ample budgets allocated to the Chief Rabbinate and Town Rabbinates. On the other hand, anyone calling upon the public not to consume the products of the settlements is liable to legal proceedings ending with payment of huge sums in damages”.

The Gush Shalom appeal cited various historical examples of boycott campaigns which had led to changes in public consciousness and in political situations, such as the boycott instituted by American Jews against Nazi Germany in 1933; the boycotts which Gandhi declared against British goods during the struggle to liberate India from colonial rule, and the boycotts called by the African American community in struggling against racial segregation.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/events/1392401562

[aranthus]

26. They are two different issues.

Let's deal with the Gush Shalom and the law issue on it's own merits. First, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Gush Shalom has not signed on to the Global BDS program which includes the demand for right of return. They oppose the settlements and seek a boycott of settlement products. By the standard I set in my first post, that isn't antisemitism. Calling for a boycott of settler products until the Occupation is lifted is in no way antiisemitic, which was part of my point. Second, even if it were, the law is a violoation of free speech. Okay? Because I didn't write anything contrary to what I just wrote in the post to which you responded. Because I was responding to the other issue raised in the article. Which is this.

[font color=blue]And long before world Jewish leaders pronounced the international boycott movement anti-Semitism in its latest manifestation , these Israelis steered clear of products sold by Jewish-owned businesses located beyond the country’s internationally recognized borders.[/font]

You see, the article didn't just target the law. It tried to use the fact that Israelis aren't buying settler products to deflect the claim that the Global BDS movement is antisemitic. Except that what Israelis are doing, and what Gush Shalom has been advocating are completely different from what Global BDS is advocating. Next time, try responding to what I actually write instead of what you think is an easy target.

[Israeli]

30. probably would have been a good idea ...

to have read the whole article before commenting ...dont you think ?

Although Gush Shalom wholeheartedly supports the boycott of products made in the settlements, Keller notes, it does not support the BDS movement and its call to boycott Israel as a whole. The organization’s boycott initiative, he says, was prompted by a desire to make the public aware that being a peace activist is not only about attending demonstrations. “You can also help promote peace through your consumer decisions.”

Roy Yellin, a media consultant based in Tel Aviv, says that just as he wouldn’t purchase products manufactured by child laborers or those harmful to the environment, he doesn’t purchase products made in the settlements. “As someone who lives in this country, I’m forced to contribute to the settlement enterprise through the taxes I pay which support the economy there,” he says. “So at least in this way, through the decisions I make about what I consume, I can refrain from making any further contributions.”

After Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders called the international boycott movement anti-Semitism, says Yellin, “I felt it was really important for people to know that there are people in Israel who support the boycott, and that it doesn’t mean that they’re anti-Semites but rather that they oppose the continued occupation.”

[aranthus]

33. If you had actually read my post

you'd see that I agree with this part of the article. Go back and read the part that I highlighted in blue to see what I disagreed with.

[LeftishBrit]

3. There is a difference between boycotting settlement products and boycotting all of Israel

The first is specifically anti-Occupation; the second is much more generally against Israel.

I don't think the latter is necessarily anti-Semitic; it can be, especially if the boycotters aren't also boycotting other countries which engage in war or occupation; but it may be just an easy gesture. It's easier, and involves less restriction on one's life, to boycott Israel than to boycott the United States, China, or even the UK.

[aranthus]

5. True, but let's be clear.

What makes the boycott antisemitic isn't merely that it targets Israel. It's that the goal of the boycott is right of return, which ends Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Let me be clear about why I boycott settlement products...

My goal is to do my little bit to express my disgust at the occupation and the settlements in the hope it'll end. More importantly I do it because I feel it's the right thing for me to do and no-one's going to pressure me into doing something I don't want to do.

[aranthus]

38. I see nothing wrong with that.

As the article stated, there are many Israelis who feel and do the same. My concern is with the Global BDS movement started by Palestinian civil society types like Omar Barghouti. Their goals and reasons are different than yours.

[azurnoir]

7. does the Government of Israel support the settlements? Would the settlements exist at all

without the Israeli governments support in every aspect of the settlements existence?

[aranthus]

11. So that justifies ending the Jewish state? n/t

[azurnoir]

12. you mean Israel who's population is 75% Jewish?

that seems to be your fixation, your claim as I said I remember similar claims being made about the end of the US

[Israeli]

22. Agreed ....

I agree with this to :
http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2014/02/21/why-i-dont-support-the-bds-movement/

but ... you cant blame them for tarring all of us with the same brush when there is so little opposition internally to this Gov and when we keep electing the Right into power .

The best thing that could come from the international BDS movement is to wake up our silent majority and make them realize that there is a price to pay for continuing the status quo .

[azurnoir]

23. From your link

Where do Americans come by the sheer gall of demanding sanctions on all Israelis when they themselves have never been subjected to sanctions for the crimes of our government? After all, if every Israeli including old socialist kibbutzniks, school kids, and opponents of the occupation, deserve to pay a personal price for an occupation they may not support, shouldn’t all Americans pay a price for American crimes that Israel could not match in a hundred years?

Start with the Iraq war, a war engineered by American politicians and their neocon cheerleaders that killed (in addition to almost 5,000 Americans) at least 500,000 Iraqis. Then there is Afghanistan which, thanks to our glorious efforts (read Charlie Wilson’s War) fell to the mujaheddin and ultimately the Taliban and which is now a killing field where American drones kill whoever we suspect is allied with the crazed religious extremists we helped install there. And, of course, there was Vietnam. where the U.S. was responsible for millions of dead. And the coups we engineered in Iran, Chile and Guatemala and the death squads we supported in El Salvador. There was the Nixon administration’s enthusiastic support for the Pakistani slaughter of hundreds of thousands in, what is now, Bangla Desh.

I could go on and on. But I won’t because you get the point.

yes I got the point and first off let me say that if my country had been sanctioned over Iraq I would have been in support of that, period it's that simple

a boycott of only the settlement goods would be a nice gesture and very little more - I'm sure that's why it's so supported by liberal Zionists such as the author of the article it's pretty painless for most Israeli's it's very easy get the other guy it's something I've noticed when it comes to the settlers they're just settlers nothing else unless they are killed by a Palestinian then and usually only then do they get to be called Israeli, but they are Israeli all of the time, they have political differences from you to be sure, just as Tea Partiers and different and as abhorrent to me but they are still Americans too and sometimes all of us get the rap for what they do and say

[Israeli]

24. I understand you azurnoir....

I'm not against the international BDS movement .... even if I was what difference would it make ?

If they can contribute to ending the occupation I'm all for it ...but I can never be a part of it .

As for aranthus's theory that they will end the State Of Israel ... I've never heard anything so ridiculous or nonsensical or laughable .

For us there are two Israels ...one is Israel proper within the Green Line, The State ... the other is The Land of Israel /Judea and Samaria ....which we want no part of .

" but they are still Americans too and sometimes all of us get the rap for what they do and say "

Once upon a time there was two Americans ....one wore blue and one gray ....over here one wears blue and the other orange .

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0808/p09s01-coop.html

[azurnoir]

25. I understand that

and really how does one boycott ones own country, especially while living there?

In the way you describe it there are still very much 2 America's (maybe more) but still at the end of the day we're all Americans here no matter what our political beliefs

and the claim is not that BDS will destroy Israel the claim is that's what BDS wants and via a 1 state solution - but the same poster has also claimed that if RoR were granted the UN would force all Palestinian refugees to go to Israel they would be allowed no other choice even with a Palestinian state, something that IMO is also ridiculous on it's face

[Israeli]

31. Israel is not America ....

....and most of our religious Right wing messianic madmen came here from your country azurnoir.

see : http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/01/21/american-jews-gave-israel-gift-of-jewish-terror/

Kach was born in America ....not here.

Anyhow .... here is another link for you about the boycott:

http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=63456

Instead of stopping the snowball at the Green Line, members of the government are inviting the boycott to Israel’s borders. Mechanisms for the compensation of firms and entities hurt by the European boycott are turning the tax-paying Israeli public into partners in the settlement enterprise. Former Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz admitted clearly in November 2012, “We doubled the budgets for Judea and Samaria. We did so keeping a low profile, because we didn’t want elements in Israel and abroad to torpedo the move.”

Despite the low profile, and accusations of anti-Semitism, those “elements abroad” are escalating their use of the boycott weapon. All that’s left for Steinitz and his friends is to fight against the “elements in Israel,” with the help of the anti-democratic Boycott Law.

[aranthus]

36. And you seem to be confused about right of return.

Do you understand what a right is? If so, please describe.

[aranthus]

35. Read carefully and try to respond to this instead of whatever it is you'd like to make up.

You write. [font color=blue]As for aranthus's theory that they will end the State Of Israel ... I've never heard anything so ridiculous or nonsensical or laughable.[/font]

Sure funny, except that isn't my theory. Read carefully. My argument is that the intent of BDS is to organize a boycott of Israel until it allows right of return. I believe that because the founders of the movement such as Omar Barghouti say that is what it is about (among other things). Now of course, full right of return isn't going to happen because Israel will never allow it. But one judges a movement on its own terms; on what would happen if it had the success that its organizers want. And BDS wants something bad.

[LeftishBrit]

14. Here's a link to a good article on the difference between boycotting settlement products and

boycotting Israel:

http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/a_victory_against_anti_israel_bds

[azurnoir]

17. Please explain to us how the current Israeli government differentiates between Israel ETA

and the settlements, because it seems that it does not there was a time when I would have agreed with this premise but in the current atmosphere created by the Israeli's government continued support of the settlements that has become quite difficult

BTW yes I fully realize that a number of Israeli's do not support the settlement enterprise, however and unfortunately the government they elected does indeed support the settlements

and to be clear here speaking for myself this is not in any way shape or form about delegitimizing Israel's existence it is about the settlements and delegitimizing thaeir existence which wold not be possible without the support of Israel's government

IMO the premise put forth in the article is an attempt at damage control via accusation of antisemitism or nothing we have not seen before

[MisterP]

29. it's almost like the rhetoric's designed for export only ...