Inside the talks' failure: US officials open up

[Jefferson23]

In an exclusive interview, American officials directly connected to the talks reveal the real reason for the collapse of the negotiations.

Nahum Barnea
Published: 05.02.14

The American version of why the current round of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians failed is fundamentally different to the one presented by Israeli officials. The list of those to blame for this failure is also very different. From the US perspective, the issue of the settlements was largely to blame.

Senior American officials involved in Secretary of State John Kerry's peace push this week agreed to share with me their take on the talks' failure.

They had one condition, in line with instructions they had received - that I didn't name them. But what they told me is the closest thing to an official American version of what happened.

The American team will be disbanded in the coming days - most of it, or all of it. Kerry has yet to decide what he is going to do - whether he will wait several months and then try to renew his effort, or release the principles of an agreement formulated by the Americans.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4515821,00.html

[azurnoir]

1. this just about puts new meaning to 'beltway insularity'

a couple of snippets illustrating this

We didn't realize Netanyahu was using the announcements of tenders for settlement construction as a way to ensure the survival of his own government. We didn't realize continuing construction allowed ministers in his government to very effectively sabotage the success of the talks

.

and

Were you surprised when you discovered that the Israelis don't really care what happens in the negotiations?

"Yes, we were surprised. It surprised us all along the way. When (Moshe) Ya'alon, your defense minister, said that the only thing Kerry wants is to win a Nobel Prize, the insult was great. We were doing this for you and for the Palestinians. Of course, there were also American interests at play.

I must ask what planet are these folks living on?

[bemildred]

2. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to separate the incompetence from the dissembling.

I have long since come to the conclusion that that ambiguity is not accidental, although in the case of particular persons, it's hard to be sure if they know. Which is the idea, if you think about it. But it is also true that we believe our own bullshit, a lot.

[Israeli]

3. I have no idea what " 'beltway insularity' " means ....

but ..
I agree with you on ....." I must ask what planet are these folks living on? "

This is pure political bullshit .

How is it possible that the most powerful man in the western world and his SOS know less than Gush Shalom ???

[azurnoir]

6. well

the beltway is Washington DC and surrounding area and insularity means just that or living in their own world

but more over how could some random person living in the Midwest US know this but the as you put it "the most powerful man in the western world and his SOS" not know?

but as I see that Egyptian river is flowing strong down thread - I guess Haaretz isn't dependable either

[Israeli]

8. thanks azurnoir...

BTW it was from the print edition of Yedioth Ahronoth not from Haaretz .

see: http://972mag.com/u-s-post-mortem-on-peace-talks-israel-killed-them/90371/

" Yedioth Ahronoth’s Nahum Barnea, Israel’s No. 1 print journalist, has a long interview on Friday with unnamed U.S. officials involved in the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, giving their view of why they failed. The interview is quite a bombshell, as well as a historic document. (Hours after this post went online, Yediot translated the interview and put it up on its English-language website.) "

Maybe the " Egyptian river " thinks our first language is english

[azurnoir]

12. Yep here it is from Ynet

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4515821,00.html

[Jefferson23]

10. When Kerry first approached Bibi, his offer to Israel was more than generous, and on that first

level, I think Kerry was sincerely surprised that he was rebuffed. After that, I think he applied
as much pressure as possible because he did want this part of his legacy..so some of those
comments are less than honest.

Notice how completely unconcerned the US is about being behind a framework that leaves
the Palestinians without a viable state:

What concessions?


"He agreed to a demilitarized state; he agreed to the border outline so 80 percent of settlers would continue living in Israeli territory; he agreed for Israel to keep security sensitive areas (mostly in the Jordan Valley - NB) for five years, and then the United States would take over. He accepted the fact that in the Israeli perception, the Palestinians would never be trustworthy.
"He also agreed that the Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem would remain under Israeli sovereignty, and agreed that the return of Palestinians to Israel would depend on Israeli willingness. 'Israel won't be flooded with refugees,' he promised.
"He told us: 'Tell me if there's another Arab leader that would have agreed to what I agreed to. I won't make any more concessions until Israel agrees to the three following terms: ( end )

Abbas needs to stand strong and his people need to know what he almost caved into....would have
been irrevocable and devastating. That is the scary part of this OP.

Kerry is still making clear who is responsible for the failed talks, Israel.

[Mosby]

4. all the quotes from "americans" sound made up

Last edited Sat May 3, 2014, 03:23 PM - Edit history (2)

An example:

"Quite the opposite, it would be a tragedy. The Jewish people are supposed to be smart; it is true that they're also considered a stubborn nation. You're supposed to know how to read the map: In the 21st century, the world will not keep tolerating the Israeli occupation. The occupation threatens Israel's status in the world and threatens Israel as a Jewish state."

And why exactly were the "americans" comments translated to Hebrew and then back to english?

[King_David]

5. Yes doesn't sound like a real quote nt

[Mosby]

11. The story is starting to make the rounds

I wouldn't be surprised if the US state dept. makes a comment about the interview, it's pretty damaging to their I/P negotiating team.

Not surprisingly, The right wing in the US is eating this shit up.

I just can't imagine anyone on the US negotiating team making statements like "I guess we need another intifada to create the circumstances that would allow progress" and "Israel is not China. It was founded by a UN resolution. Its prosperity depends on the way it is viewed by the international community".

Comments like those have a Middle eastern feel to them, it's the kind of framing you don't hear from beltway types on the right or left.

Moreover, their comments about the timeline of events are inconsistent and show a lack of understanding of the history of the conflict, things one would not expect from a US negotiating team member at any level.

I think the author either created a work of fiction or was punked somehow.

[shaayecanaan]

13. the author's son was killed in a Hamas bombing

He is a highly regarded Israeli journalist.

The sort of comments he has quoted are very, very common within the US foreign policy establishment, as opposed to the political establishment where these sort of comments would be unutterable.

Based on the opening paragraph, it seems that the US authorities have given their tacit approval for the story. I doubt that they will quash it.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/about/board/nahum-barnea.aspx

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. Yeah, that must be it...

[shaayecanaan]

14. witness the power of faith nt

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. Yes, the faithful are up to their eyeballs in a river in Egypt.

[Jefferson23]

9. U.S. envoy Indyk likely to resign amid talks blowup

Last edited Sun May 4, 2014, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

The U.S. special envoy for peace talks, Martin Indyk, is considering resigning following the blowup of talks between Israel and the Palestinians, and in light of President Barack Obama’s intention to suspend American mediation, according to Israeli officials in Jerusalem who are close to the matter.

on edit to correct link: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.588834

[shaayecanaan]

15. U.S. negotiators blame Israel for collapse of talks

At least two officials speaking anonymously to Yediot Acharonot in a report May 2 by longtime senior correspondent Nahum Barnea said multiple factors were at play in last month’s collapse of the U.S.-backed talks, but Israel’s settlement policy was preeminent.

“There are a lot of reasons for the peace effort’s failure, but people in Israel shouldn’t ignore the bitter truth — the primary sabotage came from the settlements,” one of the officials said. “The Palestinians don’t believe that Israel really intends to let them found a state when, at the same time, it is building settlements on the territory meant for that state. We’re talking about the announcement of 14,000 housing units, no less. Only now, after talks blew up, did we learn that this is also about expropriating land on a large scale. That does not reconcile with the agreement.”

http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation/article/u.s._negotiators_blame_israel_for_collapse_of_talks

[Jefferson23]

16. As the expression goes, Duh. For the American audience, this is an important step, as the narrative

has been about many other things until now. The SoS using the A word, Abbas' political moves, Kerry's wrath is not
quite done yet, in my estimation.

Stay smart and strong, Abbas. The Arab League are not the most reliable gents, either...many minefields ahead.

[shaayecanaan]

17. Some quite bilious remarks in the talkbacks

all the usual stuff in there, what about the Palestinian school textbooks, and so forth.

The Americans are massive hypocrites on this of course. They intimate that they are much more committed to the process than the parties themselves, which is utter bullshit. They could impose a solution tomorrow of course but doing anything other than hand-holding the Israelis is too politically expensive.

[Jefferson23]

19. The American politicans yes, and it could end that soon, as you say but won't.

I don't recall a push back from the WH like this one, it's different..where it leads is up to
the Palestinians. Kerry opened a few doors, unintentionally. If you look at what he was
asking Abbas to agree to, it was damn shocking, so lots of cover has been blown out of
the failed talks.

On edit, unintentional on Kerry's part in that he expected a deal, intentional about the
leaks when the failure of talks were evident. More people will be reading what that
deal would have translated to, not many were talking about it before hand...now there
is a better chance, I think.

[shaayecanaan]

20. Well, that is probably unique to the current circumstances unfortunately...

the pushback I mean. Barack Obama is probably the most pro-Palestinian US president the Palestinians could ever have hoped for, which is admittedly a fairly low bar to clear. He made it pretty clear from the outset in his presidency his rifts with Netanyahu, and tried to exact pressure on the Israelis but found that he could not. There was always something in the way domestically.

I imagine in time, as Kerry has intimated, that the Europeans will be the ones to exert that pressure. But it is very low on their radar and I doubt that they could be bothered in the short term.