Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumPresby. Church USA brings shame upon itself
CHULA VISTA, California My personal history with the Presbyterian Church goes back to the early 1990s, when they accepted me as a student for their doctoral program. In the three years I attended the SFTS (San Francisco Theological Seminary) in San Anselmo, CA., I considered it one of the most important learning experiences of my life. I had some outstanding scholars who served as my professors. Yet, one of the things I discerned early on in my studies, some of the professors seemed a bit more anti-Zionist than I had expected. They werent overly anti-Zionist, and they were mild by todays standard.
The relationship between the Presbyterian Church and the Jewish community was reasonably cordial.
---------snip--------------
To Presbyterians everywhere, I will conclude with one more short remark:
When the Iranian state media and former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke salute your anti-Zionist attitude about Israel, you must be doing something wrong.
http://www.sdjewishworld.com/2014/06/25/presbyterian-church-usa-brings-shame-upon/
4now
(1,596 posts)It doesn't make sense to me.They are just standing up to Apartheid.
But if it was posted on the internet it must be true.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Maybe you never knew ?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Just "standing up to Apartheid " ?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Turbineguy
(37,285 posts)it must follow that I hate all women?
From a purely financial view it's probably not a smart move because in general, Israeli investments have been doing well over the long haul.
It's the attitude that any deviation from the party line makes you an anti-Zionist that allow David Duke and Iran to say such ridiculous things and connect themselves to the Presbyterian Church.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)and David Duke on a blind date so they can make some connection.
It's easy to understand. Israel is on a downward slope WRT occupation, colonization and apartheid. Europe is fekking tired of it, and that is why a lot of EU states are now advising their citizens that investing in any company that does business in the OPT is a bad idea. There is also a growing number of American institutions that are divesting themselves from companies doing business in the OPT. The Presbyterians are one of these groups.
So what is Israel and their RPA's to do? Try and tie them to David Duke, the Iranians now, and anybody else that they can to discredit these groups as anti-Semites and bigots.
There is just one small problem. Nobody is buying it. The boy that cried "bigots" keeps on crying, but it is terribly hard to believe that he is sincere while he is slapping around another population and confiscating their lands for Israeli-only settlements.
I doubt that Israel will change its MO. I'm not sure that they would know how to, but the world doesn't want any part of this nonsense any longer. That's what frightens Israel and its RPAs into the smear campaign.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)certainly makes your OPs look terribly weak.
But I understand, you jest can't help yourself.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)maybe it's time to stop making excuses and think about why you agree with David Duke.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Turbineguy
(37,285 posts)David Duke agrees with the Presbyterian Church. I don't think the Church did this to show that they agreed with Duke.
If I happen to look at my watch when it is at the exact time as a stopped clock we could say they are both in agreement.
Under these rules I could not do anything (eat lunch, sleep whatever) at the same time as Rush Limbaugh, because it would mean that I agree with him.
This is a BS argument that discredits Zionism.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 5, 2014, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)
A: Time to stop making excuses.
If you agree with Rush Limbaugh on the time of day, that's meaningless and irrelevant.
If you were to agree with his hatred and malice toward women and Blacks, that's another matter altogether.
The Presbyterian Church's agreement with David Duke isn't about the time of day.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The proposition that all anti-Semites are critics of Israel does not imply taffy all critics of Israel are anti-Semites.
This is acknowledged by all intellectually honest commenters.
Turbineguy
(37,285 posts)I thought that dumping Israeli assets was not a good financial move.
Using your logic, that would make me a flaming Zionist who gives Israel permission to wipe out all Palestinians.
If the Israelis and the Palestinians could have a rational discussion, who knows what might come of it. That is of course, strictly forbidden.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)unless of course you consider the settlements to be already a part of Israel?
The companies are Caterpillar, Motorola, Hewlett-Packard all of which are American companies
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Nice to see you.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)C'mon, they're obsessed with pure breeds, and their top registers are blondes and Germans!
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)then I'm just gonna pretend that's a funny joke. Ha, ha.
So how have things been in cloud magic-pony land?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Your assumption is plainly that because David Duke has "endorsed" something, that must mean the other people behind whatever that is are just like David Duke, or at the least should reflexively change their position to one diametrically opposite of his own.
of course, David Duke's opinion about anything is a red herring. Was he instrumental to anything involving the Presbyterian church's decision? No, he wasn't. Was trhe Presbyterian Church motivated by anything pertaining to Duke? No, they plainly weren't. He's just a name you guys throw out there to try to tar the Presbyterian Church.
E.g., "Hitler liked dogs, so the AKC is a nazi front group."
So. Rather than serving as David Duke's personal loudspeaker, any chance you can come up with a reason why the Presbyterian Church should be obligated to continue investing in Hewlett-Packard, Caterpillar, and Motorolla?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Also, welcome back.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 5, 2014, 01:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Not to mention the fascist right in Europe.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/support-for-israels-settlements-from-europes-right/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
so be careful about bullshit guilt by not-even association.
King_David
(14,851 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)of the West Bank and shuffle towards apartheid. That's Israel's legacy, its idea of being 'a light unto nations.'
Own it, guys, brag about it. Might as well, since it's all yours.
As for the names on that list, same crowd that thinks Bibi is god's gift to humanity.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)David Dukes support was real .
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/the-english-defence-league-standing-firm/
http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/edl-jewish-division-new-leadership-new-facebook-page/
...Among others you can find easily enough. I'd love to see what sort of treasure trove lies within their forums, but oh golly, I'd hate for you to get all huffy on my creating a screen name over there to access those nuts' stuff, too! All that, false flags?
Speaking of flags, check out those pictures at the second link. The EDL's a big fan of Israel, Dave. Sorry.
Also big fans of Nachum Shifren, looks like. So... tell me. Kach... also "false flags"?
Also, with regards to Putin... well... I'm curious, what's your opinion of Russia's annexupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine?
is Putin a "false flag" too?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Same as Hamas and almost all surrounding unenlightened Primitive Backward gay hating countries of the Middle East ( except for Israel of course) and Russia .
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)And you know the shit you wrote about white supremism and Zionists :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=57842
I know now where it comes from but we not allowed to link to hate sites here on DU .
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I happened to bump into what you're talking about while flipping through wikipedia in response to Fozzie upthread.
Know what else I noticed? This source you speak of predicates his argument on an utter and complete inability to distinguish between Jews as a people, and Zionism as a political philosophy. Reminds me of someone I talk with here, in fact. curious that they even share a name!
So, I'm afraid your thesis is incorrect Dave. Sorry. he's attacking a people, i'm critiquing politics. Sort of like how one can shit-talk Stalinism without hating Russians - Speaking of... Crimea?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Is what Zionism is.
Zionism is not a political philosophy. You been reading the wrong websites.Mixing with the wrong crowd.
That there is a valuable lesson for you.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You might want to reexamine your beliefs, as you've been demanding others do.
...Shit, this is like some weird version of "Seven degrees of Kevin Bacon" isn't it?
So anyway. Your opinion on Russia's annexation of crimea and its efforts in Eastern ukraine? I'm dying to know, you're keeping me in such suspense with your evasions