Is Hamas Trying to Get Gazans Killed?

[shira]

Mahmoud Abbas, the sometimes moderate, often ineffectual leader of the Palestinian Authority, just asked his rivals in Hamas a question that other bewildered people are also asking: “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?”

The Gaza-based Hamas has recently fired more than 500 rockets at Israeli towns and cities. This has terrorized the citizenry, though caused few casualties, in large part because Israel is protected by the Iron Dome anti-rocket system.

In reaction to these indiscriminately fired missiles, Israel has bombarded targets across Gaza, killing roughly 100 people so far. Compared with violent death rates in other parts of the Middle East, the number is small. (More than 170,000 people have been killed in the Syrian civil war to date.) But it is large enough to suggest an answer to Abbas’s question: Hamas is trying to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible.

Dead Palestinians represent a crucial propaganda victory for the nihilists of Hamas. It is perverse, but true. It is also the best possible explanation for Hamas’s behavior, because Hamas has no other plausible strategic goal here.

more...
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-11/is-hamas-trying-to-get-gazans-killed

That may be the best explanation for Hamas' behavior, but it's not the only one. Hamas is looking for some kind of propaganda victory. Dead soldiers will help, kidnapped ones are even better. Just one rocket hit on an apartment building, school, etc.. that acts as a wakeup call would be huge for them. They're desperate, given that they've lost their support from Egypt & are on shaky ground supporting the Sunnis against the Shias from Hezbollah and Iran.

[GitRDun]

1. A pox on both their houses! eom

[Scootaloo]

2. Too bad that Israel and its ardent supporters are so eager to help, then n/t

[elleng]

3. Yes.

[King_David]

23. What do you mean by "yes"?

[cali]

7. All civilian deaths in Gaza are the fault of Hamas, didn't you know that?

There are unbiased, compassionate DUers who shall remain unnamed who all to eager to disabuse you of the notion that Israel is responsible for any of it and who can assure you that all their forces act all the time unimpeachably.

[PCIntern]

10. If one figuratively for the purposes of this post

were to pull a gun and start firing, the other party will certainly draw and fire back. Even the Jews will do that, cali...hard as that is for you to comprehend. Doesn't really matter who was there first at this point, does it? The problem is, when you have a pea-shooter and the other guy has a bazooka, it isn't such a good idea is it? But then, to compound it, let the first guy hide behind his women and children. You know what we call those people? Cowards.



Real Phony Tough and Crazy "Brave".

[shira]

15. If a gunner shoots from within a crowd at other people….

….towards other people, a police officer is duty-bound to fire back at said gunner. If the policeman accidentally kills a civilian acting as a shield, it's ENTIRELY the gunner's fault, not the policeman.

[Maedhros]

32. This is a better metaphor:

Someone fires a pellet gun from a house at a police vehicle, breaking the driver's side mirror.

The police then raid the house with a SWAT team, throwing flash-bangs in the crib and shooting up a bunch of bystanders in the kitchen while the guy with the pellet gun runs out the back.

[shira]

35. You're minimizing the devastation of Hamas rockets...

Israeli Cattle Ranch Decimated by Hamas Rocket; 30 Cows Dead (VIDEO)
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/16/israeli-cattle-ranch-decimated-by-hamas-rocket-30-cows-dead-video/

Imagine what would've happened if those cows were replaced with 30 people.

[Maedhros]

36. We don't have to imagine - We saw the effects on a Palestinian beach.

No matter how you slice it, the effectiveness of Palestinian attacks vs. Israel is far, far inferior to the weaponry Israel brings to bear on Palestine. Casualties are likewise very unequally distributed, with Palestine on the losing end by a huge margin.

[hrmjustin]

27. Indeed!

I don't get those who don't think Israel is responsible for those deaths.

[shira]

4. Why Gaza Doesn’t Have Bomb Shelters

One of the key talking points by apologists for Hamas in the current conflict is that it isn’t fair that Israelis under fire have bomb shelters while Palestinians in Gaza don’t have any. Among other factors, the lack of shelters accounts in part for the differences in casualty figures between the two peoples. But somehow none of the talking heads on TV ever ask why there are no bomb shelters in Gaza.

There’s no question that Hamas is outgunned by Israel. The Islamist terror group that still rules over Gaza has thousands of rockets, but Palestinians eager to cheer news of Israeli casualties have been disappointed as the Iron Dome anti-missile defense system has knocked down most of the rockets shot over the border from Gaza at Israeli cities in the hope that carnage will result. But even though Israel has gone to unprecedented lengths to avoid killing Palestinian civilians as it attacks the missile launch sites and Hamas command centers and ammunition storage areas that are embedded in packed neighborhood and especially in or around schools, mosques, and clinics, some civilians have died. Given that the Israelis have pounded the Islamists with nearly a thousand strikes this week, the approximately 150 Palestinian fatalities is actually pretty low. But still, fewer Palestinians would have died had there been places for them to seek refuge during the fighting.

The assumption is that the Hamas-run strip is too poor to afford building shelters and safe rooms for its civilians, a point that adds to the impression that the Palestinians are helpless victims who deserve the sympathy if not the help of the world in fending off Israel’s assault on Hamas’s arsenal. But the assumption is utterly false. Gaza’s tyrants have plenty of money and material to build shelters. And they have built plenty of them. They’re just not for the people of Gaza.

As is well known, Gaza is honeycombed with underground structures from one end of the strip to the other. This doesn’t only refer to the more than 1,400 tunnels that have connected Gaza to Egypt through which all sorts of things—including rockets, ammunition, building materials as well as consumer goods–came into the strip until the military government in Cairo stopped the traffic. The chief problem facing the Israel Defense Forces in this campaign is the same one they faced in 2008 and 2012 when they previously tried to temporarily silence the rocket fire. Hamas’s leaders and fighters are kept safe in a warren of shelters build deep underneath Gaza. There is also plenty of room there for its supply of thousands of rockets and other armaments. Moreover, they are also connected by tunnels that crisscross the length of that independent Palestinian state in all but name ruled by Hamas. Indeed, when you consider the vast square footage devoted to these structures, there may well be far more shelter space per square mile in Gaza than anyplace in Israel.

If these structures were opened up to the civilians of Gaza, there is little doubt that would lower the casualty figures. Indeed, if the leaders of Gaza and their armed cadres emerged from their safe havens under the ground and let the civilians take cover there they could then show some real courage. But lowering casualties isn’t part of Hamas’s action plan that is predicated on sacrificing as many of their own people as possible in order to generate foreign sympathy. Instead, they cower behind the civilians, shooting missiles next to schools, storing ammunition in mosques (as today’s explosion in Gaza illustrated) and, as I previously noted, are actually urging civilians to act as human shields against Israeli fire on Hamas strongholds. Indeed, they have enlisted the people of Gaza as part of their misinformation campaign in which they attempt to conceal the presence of missile launching or masked, armed Hamas fighters in civilian neighborhoods.

http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/guest-blog/contentions-why-gaza-doesnt-have-bomb-shelters/2014/07/14/

[cali]

8. wowzer more right wing bullshit that demonizes Palestinians- NOT JUST HAMAS

shocker: Shira posting stuff that demonizes Palestinians. Not. quite typical of you.

ugh. shame on you.

[PCIntern]

11. Any falsity in shira's post?

DEMONIZES!!! Oh noes!!!

Even if it is true...she's DEMONIZING!

another ADJECTIVE!

Along with all the other adjectives...

[shira]

12. Not sure u know the diff. between criticism & demonization

That article doesn't demonize Palestinians, but if you insist it does PROVE IT.

[shira]

5. Samantha Power tweets about Hamas using UN facilities for shielding...

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorPower/status/489843456206856192

[azurnoir]

9. your speaking about the vacant school UNRWA found weapons in right?

in fact it was UNRWA that announced the find

Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza

East Jerusalem

Yesterday, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered approximately 20 rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip. UNRWA strongly condemns the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations. This is a flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law. This incident, which is the first of its kind in Gaza, endangered civilians including staff and put at risk UNRWA’s vital mission to assist and protect Palestine refugees in Gaza.

Immediately after discovery, the Agency informed the relevant parties and successfully took all necessary measures for the removal of the objects in order to preserve the safety and security of the school. UNRWA has launched a comprehensive investigation into the circumstances surrounding this incident.

UNRWA has strong, established procedures to maintain the neutrality of all its premises, including a strict no-weapons policy and routine inspections of its installations, to ensure they are only used for humanitarian purposes. UNRWA will uphold and further reinforce its procedures.

Palestinian civilians in Gaza rely on UNRWA to provide humanitarian assistance and shelter. At all times, and especially during escalations of violence, the sanctity and integrity of UN installations must be respected.

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

[shira]

6. Shocking video of terrorists using children as shields….

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=852848451392176

Granted, that's Hezbollah, but Hamas is engaged in very similar war crimes.

[Jefferson23]

13. Posted by Friends of the IDF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

Great source, shira.

[shira]

14. Pitiful response. Denying war crimes only encourages more of the same. n/t

[Jefferson23]

16. Pitiful source you mean..I would agree with that. n/t

[Jefferson23]

19. They are pitiful..she has control of her sources, exclusive to pro settlers sympathies. n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

26. Maybe you can also point out on wiki where it says they are pro settler

As you claim

[Jefferson23]

28. I was referring to the bulk of her sources..the post I responded to said..you two.

I believe she/he was referring to the earlier exchange shira and I were having about
her insistence that HRW, B'Tselem were biased against Israel.

Thus my response was of a collective nature.

Although I doubt this group is against the settlements, maybe they
aren't.

[shira]

18. You doubt the substance of that video? Why? Because it's inconvenient? n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

24. I looked over the wiki page you posted for friends of IDF.

Maybe you can point out on wiki what you say that makes them pitiful?

[Jefferson23]

25. I find the group too friendly..of course not all would agree with me. n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

29. What do you mean? N/T

[Jefferson23]

30. Uncritical support...there was none I could locate about Israeli policy. n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

33. The Link you provided does show its uncritical support for

The families of fallen soldiers, low income soldiers and soldiers facing other hardships through its various programs. It also as you say says nothing on IDF policy whether pro or con.

So I take it they are in your view pitiful for this?

[Jefferson23]

34. Yes, their support is uncritical and yes as a source for a video which gives no date

not much info at all..that is a pitiful source.

[azurnoir]

20. exactly when is this video from and

who is Hezbollah allegedly using children as human shields against?

[shira]

31. Don't know, but it's horrifying. Not something to minimize or deny. n/t

[wellst0nev0ter]

41. Gotta Defend The Indefensible With SOMETHING eom

[shira]

21. Bill Clinton: Hamas forcing Israel to kill Palestinian civilians

When asked about the current crisis in the South, Clinton chided Hamas for "forcing" Israel to kill Palestinian civilians by "raining rockets down" on the South.

"Hamas was perfectly well aware what would happen if they started raining rockets on Israel," the former president said. "They fired a thousand of them, and they have a strategy designed to force Israel to kill their own civilians so that the rest of the world will condemn them."

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Bill-Clinton-says-Netanyahu-could-and-should-clinch-peace-deal-363168

[shira]

22. Hillary Clinton: Israelis are absolutely right…can't just sit there, let rockets rain down

“When I negotiated the cease-fire in November of 2012, it was right on the brink with Israel once again invading Gaza because of the rockets … and the Israelis are absolutely right in saying that they can’t just sit there and let rockets rain down,” Clinton told the Comedy Central host. “They have a missile defense which is working well, but that can’t be certain, and now there are drones, apparently, that are being launched from Gaza.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/hillary-clinton-daily-show-gaza-media-scrutiny-108967.html#ixzz37m03zCqC

[aranthus]

39. I think that Israel was prepared to wait out the rockets a little longer.

What triggered the ground attack was sneaking a terror squad into Israel through the tunnels. Israel can't let that happen. If they hadn't intercepted them, there would be dozens of Israeli civilians killed.

[shira]

40. I've been trying to figure out why the ground assault....

If for the same result of 2008-09, then it's pointless.

Defeating Hamas is pointless too.

Maybe the aim is to neuter Hamas. Taking out the tunnels will help do that. Grant them no concessions, no signs of victory once there's a ceasefire. Let the Palestinians see Hamas for what they truly are, and then let the Palestinians take out Hamas themselves. The Arab world is turning on Hamas. Hamas has no support from Egypt, no support from Syria. They're desperate for some sort of political win. Israel cannot allow for any such thing. As it is, Hamas is losing BADLY now.

Just a guess.

[ladjf]

37. Maybe Hamas is being bribed to shoot the "bottle rockets" into Israel. nt

[King_David]

38. They not only trying..

Hamas is succeeding

[shira]

42. WAPO reports Hamas HQ within Shifa Hospital

At the Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, crowds gathered to throw SHOES and eggs at the Palestinian Authority’s health minister, who represents the crumbling “unity government” in the West Bank city of Ramallah. The minister was turned away before he reached the hospital, which has become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/while-israel-held-its-fire-the-militant-group-hamas-did-not/2014/07/15/116fd3d7-3c0f-4413-94a9-2ab16af1445d_story.html#

[Petrushka]

43. An Egyptian viewpoint --->

Egyptian TV Host Osama Mounir to Hamas Leaders: Dream on! You Belong in a Mental Asylum