Robert Fisk: The true Gaza back-story that the Israelis aren’t telling this week

[ellenrr]

A future Palestine state will have no borders and be an enclave within Israel, surrounded on all sides by Israeli-held territory

OK, so by this afternoon, the exchange rate of death in two days was 40-0 in favour of Israel. But now for the Gaza story you won’t be hearing from anyone else in the next few hours.
It’s about land. The Israelis of Sederot are coming under rocket fire from the Palestinians of Gaza and now the Palestinians are getting their comeuppance. Sure. But wait, how come all those Palestinians – all 1.5 million – are crammed into Gaza in the first place? Well, their families once lived, didn’t they, in what is now called Israel? And got chucked out – or fled for their lives – when the Israeli state was created.

And – a drawing in of breath is now perhaps required – the people who lived in Sederot in early 1948 were not Israelis, but Palestinian Arabs. Their village was called Huj. Nor were they enemies of Israel. Two years earlier, these same Arabs had actually hidden Jewish Haganah fighters from the British Army. But when the Israeli army turned up at Huj on 31 May 1948, they expelled all the Arab villagers – to the Gaza Strip! Refugees, they became. David Ben Gurion (Israel’s first Prime Minister) called it an “unjust and unjustified action”. Too bad. The Palestinians of Huj were never allowed back.

And today, well over 6,000 descendants of the Palestinians from Huj – now Sederot – live in the squalor of Gaza, among the “terrorists” Israel is claiming to destroy and who are shooting at what was Huj. Interesting story.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-true-gaza-backstory-that-the-israelis-arent-telling-this-week-9596120.html

[WhiteTara]

1. I am sickened by Israel's actions and

I hope the whole world condemns them. Here's to the boycott. May it succeed.

[ellenrr]

3. amen to that. nt

[Jefferson23]

2. I feel it is critical for supporters of a peace deal to understand that a viable state must become

a reality. So to say, yes there must be a two state solution is not enough and over simplifies the issue.

I appreciate the OP here, critical: “Much like the South African Bantustans,” says Avnery. In other words, no “viable” state of Palestine will ever exist. After all, aren’t Isis just the same as Hamas? Of course not.

[ellenrr]

4. it seems to be that in the abstract a one -state solution should be the goal -

one person, one vote -
as in US, France, etc.
we would not accept a US divided into christian and Jewish, or Black and White...

but the obstacle to either one-state or two-state is the implacable hatred of so many Israelies, which is I would say a result of a very determined campaign of propaganda that began right after the holocaust when Jewish refugees were lied to in order to get them to migrate to Palestine. Jews from cities would not have as their choice to immigrate to a rural land. And Jewish refugees were even threatened to make them move to to Palestine. The lies and propaganda have continued since then.

what do you think Jefferson - one state, two state, something else?

[hack89]

5. What about the implacable hatred of the Palestinians?

There is plenty of hatred on both sides.

[Jefferson23]

6. Two states because that is where the Palestinians have international support. Two states

since Israel for all it's flaws in the inception years, it's done. Don't try and reinvent the wheel,
and I can't even imagine the violence that would come from such an effort.

The glue that has held the occupation together is the United States, we could literally
end this in the next month if we wanted to. Our interests intersect in such a way that
we benefit from the relationship and AIPAC, although strong, does not control the most
influential strings...the president. As long as Israel's interests do not interfere greatly
with ours, we will continue to protect them, especially at any UNSC votes.

With that said, this latest operation, too soon to say but I don't think it is a stretch to say that
Israel has over played their hand in the international community. You can't control everything,
all the time, forever.

[ellenrr]

9. hope you're right as to over-reach...

altho I remember thinking the same thing,
in 2008, when Israel bombed a UN shelter..

[Jefferson23]

10. Horrific events during OCL, should have been prosecutions. :(

[King_David]

7. Again a totally ridiculous non factual post

Particularly the ridiculous revisionism and fairy tale you posted there about Jews and the Holocaust.

Jewish refugees were lied to in order to get them to migrate to Palestine. Jews from cities would not have as their choice to immigrate to a rural land. And Jewish refugees were even threatened to make them move to to Palestine.

Cite that please .

Where are you reading your history? What are your sources?

[COLGATE4]

8. I think it's a cite taken from

Der Sturmer

[King_David]

11. That is why I asked,

I have read such things on extremist right wing websites and thought I would give that poster the benefit of the doubt to cite her sources.

[COLGATE4]

15. These are the same people who think

that 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' is factual.

[King_David]

16. Yes I know,

There are many who do.

During Ramadan it is a favorite on many Middle East TV channels, a holiday special.

[King_David]

17. Maybe you missed us requesting a cite from you for this stuff you have written nt

[King_David]

18. Still waiting for a cite,

a result of a very determined campaign of propaganda that began right after the holocaust when Jewish refugees were lied to in order to get them to migrate to Palestine. Jews from cities would not have as their choice to immigrate to a rural land. And Jewish refugees were even threatened to make them move to to Palestine. The lies and propaganda have continued since then.

Where does this come from?

Can you tell us where you learnt or read this please?

[King_David]

19. Could you please source these "facts"

Or tell us where you read them :

You said :

but the obstacle to either one-state or two-state is the implacable hatred of so many Israelies, which is I would say a result of a very determined campaign of propaganda that began right after the holocaust when Jewish refugees were lied to in order to get them to migrate to Palestine. Jews from cities would not have as their choice to immigrate to a rural land. And Jewish refugees were even threatened to make them move to to Palestine. The lies and propaganda have continued since then.

[King_David]

20. Kick

[King_David]

22. Kick

[King_David]

26. Kick

[King_David]

21. Ready to tell us all where you get that bogus history from ?

[IronGate]

23. Doubtful you'll hear from him/her.

That was a passage straight from some RW hate site.

[King_David]

24. That's obvious

I wanted to give the poster the benefit of the doubt but that kind of "history" usually is seen at extremist right wing websites.

[RoccoR5955]

12. Israel needs to

be taken back by the Palestinians.
After all, isn't possession 9/10th of the law, and back in 1948, who was in possession?
Israel stole that territory, in the name of their religion, which they had left thousands of years prior.
Sorry, they were "given" the territory, but who had the right to do this? There were already people living there.
What right did they have to the territory, after they abandoned it?
None, I say.
Not to mention, many of the tactics that Israel uses today, are the same tactics that were used against them during WWII.
How is this the correct thing to do?
Yes, the Palestinians are wrong for their violence, but so is Israel, and probably even more so.

[King_David]

13. 'Israel needs to be taken back by the Palestinians.'

'back' ? Tel Aviv ?

They been trying.

More from your ridiculous post :

' isn't possession 9/10th of the law'

Who possesses the land now in 2014?

Jus saying.

[ieoeja]

25. Q: "in 1948, who was in possession?" A: Britain.

Q: Sorry, they were "given" the territory, but who had the right to do this?

A: As a nation Britain - who took it from the Germans who took it from the British who took it from the Turks over the course of 30 years - turned it over to the UN who then had that right.

As individual property the land was owned by sheiks in Damascus, Cairo, Istanbul, etc who had the right to sell it to Jewish organizations in London and New York who then had the right to give the land to individuals living in Israel. A lot of the new owners continued using the local Arabs as sharecroppers until most** of them fled the invading armies of several Arab nations in 1948. Most land owners made other arrangements in their absence.

My family sharecropped acreage next to our farm for decades. When the owner died and his heir refused to work with us, we stopped. Having farmed it for decades did not give us the right to continue that relationship.

Coincidentally enough, we were kicked off that land for religious reasons. My dad was an Atheist.


Q: What right did they have to the territory, after they abandoned it? None, I say.

A: I agree. The Palestinians really had no right to land they only sharecropped in the first place. But after abandoning it, their rights were doubly voided.


Q: How is this the correct thing to do?

A: It has been the correct thing to do in pretty much every nation that has ever existed except for those setup on a tribal bases. Are you saying we should divide into tribes?


**"Most". The word I used was "most". It has a meaning. Many Arabs stayed. Some even helped repel the invading armies. Others, sadly, helped the invading armies. Even more sadly, some perfectly innocent Arabs were forcibly evicted by xenophobes who refused to see the difference between Arab friends and Arab enemies.

[shira]

14. No surprise Fisk justifies double war crimes from Hamas vs. innocents....

...in both Israel and Palestine. He can't even bring himself to admit they're terrorists.