Moroccan Jewish Community’s Rabbi Badly Beaten In Anti-Semitic Attack on Friday

[King_David]

The rabbi of the Jewish community in Casablanca, Morocco, Rabbi Moshe Ohayon, claims he was badly beaten on Friday as a retaliation by locals for Israel’s airstrikes in Gaza.

According to Channel 2 News, a young man whose identity is known to the police, waited for the rabbi as he was walking to synagogue, then confronted him and kicked him. The assailant continued to beat the rabbi, breaking his nose and causing serious injuries in his ribs.

The rabbi said that he begged for help but the passers-by ignored his cries.

The Jewish community in Morocco condemned the incident and said that its members fear a rise in anti-Semitism as the IDF continues Operation Protective Edge. ”Since the recent incidents in Judea, Samaria and Gaza began, there is an increase in harassment of Jews. It has become really scary to live here,” a member of the Jewish community was quoted as having said.


http://jpupdates.com/2014/07/13/moroccan-jewish-communitys-rabbi-badly-beaten-anti-semitic-attack-friday/

[Jefferson23]

1. End the occupation. Terrible for the Rabbi, frightening blow back. n/t

[King_David]

2. The occupation causes Jew Hatred in Morrocco and the world ?

Geez what caused it all before 1967 in the world?

[Jefferson23]

3. Just a suggestion, READ your own OP before you post:

claims he was badly beaten on Friday as a retaliation by locals for Israel’s airstrikes in Gaza.

[King_David]

4. This Rabbi was a Military commander in Israel?

Or a Jew like those accused of being 'Jesus Killers' in Boston ?

[Jefferson23]

5. You're going to contradict your own OP's words?

You made a mistake listing this OP.

[King_David]

6. The OP shows where this 'support' is coming from,

The reasons for the support.

[Jefferson23]

7. Yes, the assault on the Palestinians. For crying out loud, read your own OP's.

The Jewish community in Morocco condemned the incident and said that its members fear a rise in anti-Semitism as the IDF continues Operation Protective Edge. ”Since the recent incidents in Judea, Samaria and Gaza began, there is an increase in harassment of Jews. It has become really scary to live here,” a member of the Jewish community was quoted as having said.

Blow back.

End the occupation, support a viable state for the Palestinians.

[King_David]

8. Yes all Jews are fair game,

In Morrocco , Boston , Paris etc in 2014 they say it is because of Gaza.
For the last 3000 years there were different stories like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or the Jewish Lobby or hook noses or money lenders etc.

Blow back.

End the occupation, support a viable state for the Palestinians.

I am not sure your solution will end hatred of Jews.

[Jefferson23]

11. Your OP's all point to the correlation...blow back sucks. End the occupation would go a long

way for peace and the next generation can begin to produce a different, better future for all parties.

[King_David]

14. History shows ending the occupation will not really have any effect on ending antisemitism,

AntiZionism is the new PC anti-Semitism.
This is all cover for the same old hate.
It makes it more palatable especially in the West, but it is not new.

[Jefferson23]

19. History shows? The occupation has never ended...just so you know. n/t

[King_David]

22. Just so you know,

Vicious Jew Hatred and Bigotry did not begin with the occupation.

[Jefferson23]

37. Read your own OP, it is a story about PRESENT day events. I did not write the OP, btw. n/t

[King_David]

39. The OP is clear,

Present day events allow Jew haters to attack Jews and claim there are valid reasons.

This is very common in the USA, Boston , Paris , Melbourne and Morocco.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

159. Hatred and Bigotry are worldwide, dave. They are timeless and go back to the beginning.

Anybody that is considered an outsider or different, by small-minded groupthink, are targets of it.

But there will always be spin doctors incapable of seeing that.

[shira]

61. Occupation/Settlements ended in Gaza & Hamas immediately fired more rockets.

What lesson are we to learn from this?

It certainly cannot be that unilaterally ending the occupation/settlements leads towards peace. Just the opposite. And that's what Bibi has been arguing the past few days.

[Scootaloo]

77. So are you pitching in for one state now, Shira?

because if you're not willing to end the occupation and settlement projects, that's what you're gonna get

[shira]

80. I think you'd agree with me....

Unilaterally leaving Gaza hasn't worked out so well (rockets, many Palestinian lives lost) for Palestinians living under Hamas. Why would you want more of the same in the W.Bank?

[Scootaloo]

82. I'm asking if you're getting on board the one-state train Shira

If so, welcome aboard - I hobo'd my way onto this thing a couple weeks ago myself. Got tired of the two-state two o'clock being terminally late.

[shira]

86. The 2 nations cannot co-exist peacefully together

Last edited Sun Jul 13, 2014, 06:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Gaza wouldn't be part of this 1-state; that's just crazy. I've read articles about Israel annexing the W.Bank where Palestinian families could be paid enough to voluntarily move out if they didn't want to accept Israeli sovereignty/citizenship. What do you think about that?

[Jefferson23]

102. Holy cow. Just move out. n/t

[Jefferson23]

94. Gaza's history is documented accurately by Sara Roy and other scholars. Your account is

a shell of the truth.

[King_David]

118. What Kurska said in this thread - +1

[Jefferson23]

119. I'm shocked. n/t

[agbdf]

116. You're a terrible hater - anti-Semite

As a Jew, I found your comments disgusting. You're a hater. The Democratic Party is no place for haters. Jews vote well over 80 percent Democratic. These are the sorts of comments which were common in Germany in the 20s, 30s and 40s.

Jews in America have been at the forefront of the progressive movement for over 100 years.

Comments like yours and some of the other posters on this thread have no place on a site for Democrats.

[King_David]

117. My views as espoused are the same views as the Democratic Party of the USA

Last edited Sun Jul 13, 2014, 11:23 PM - Edit history (1)

And are said by Democratic congressman and senators every single day.

Maybe it is YOU that should not be a part of this party and a party that the vast majority of Jewish voters ( who study after study have shown also happen to be majority Zionist and pro Israel )

Maybe you should be the one finding a new party?

( on reading your post again I think you misunderstood my post and you should see what post I was replying to.. I'm almost sure that me and you are on the same page--- I was saying that Jew hatred has been around for so long and that this attack on a Jew had nothng to do with Israel and everything to do with the fact that Jew haters attack Jews . They do not need any reason )

[Aerows]

205. I think that poster

missed the tag.

[King_David]

206. Was misunderstanding

He was actually on the same page as myself.
We sorted it out.

[Aerows]

207. Good

You can't read emotions or people's faces in a post. I think often misinterpretations happen just because of that.

[King_David]

208. Yea I knew after reading that post a couple of times that he was genuinely upset by what he thought

I was saying.
And then realized he was one of the good guys.

[Aerows]

209. Not making judgments either way

that I agree, or disagree, I just don't like it when people get into arguments due to misunderstanding each other.

[shira]

12. So therefore Islamophobic attacks happen due to Muslim terror worldwide....

It's blow back.

Too bad it happens.



End all terror states, support liberal democracy in place of all the totalitarian theocracies out there. Sounds like a neo-con commercial.

[Jefferson23]

16. Clueless statement, I suspect intentionally so. n/t

[shira]

21. It's the equivalent of the crap you're arguing. n/t

[Jefferson23]

25. Foreign policy errors and injustices have a way of hitting you back hard. Like the occupation.

Islamaphobia stems from fears spread through many means, after 9/11 people were frightened
and the tools who wanted a war in Iraq perpetuated those fears.

This is also perpetuated by Bibi to meet his goals, do not cede any land to the Palestinians..they're
too dangerous.

[shira]

31. Sounds like justification 4 settler extremists who burned that kid....

Can they use that defense too?

PA and Hamas policy have a way of hitting Palestinians back hard, correct?

[Jefferson23]

36. JUSTIFICATION is a word you seem to not be able to use appropriately.

You just made another case for ending the occupation, no one is justifying any murder.

If you do not recognize cause and effect, you'll likely never find a solution to your problem.

[shira]

49. So we should attempt 2 'understand' how important cause & effect....

...is between Hamas policy & the settlers burning the kid. There is blow back involved. This must be better understood by all.

Yes?

[Jefferson23]

50. There is a vicious cycle, which the occupation fuels. n/t

[shira]

52. It's wrong trying to "contextualize" hate crimes. Learn from this. n/t

[Jefferson23]

53. You need to learn, one day you might. Stick around, this group may do you some good one day. n/t

[Scootaloo]

78. Well, that's been the excuse islamophobes use, yeah

I don't think Jefferson is trying to justify the attack himself, so much as pointing out the fact that the attackers used this justification.

David's question was, "The occupation causes Jew Hatred in Morrocco and the world ?" and the answer is "Jew-haters consider it a pretty good excuse for what they do"

[Jefferson23]

120. There is nothing in the OP, nothing anyone can point to, that even hints that the criminal

did not attack the Rabbi for the reasons he stated. There exists no justification for the crime, and
there is no reason to believe the attacker was not motivated by the injustice to the Palestinians
as he evidently made clear. I understand Americans who do not wish to accept that our foreign policies
do not bring unintended consequences, but they are real. Our policies abroad have driven anti-American
sentiments, why this is not allowed to be translated to the I/P issue is foolish, to say the least.

[King_David]

211. There's absolutely no excuse for bigotry

Even against Jews. .

[Jefferson23]

212. CENTCOM, no excuse was given..but you really don't like those reports, I understand.

That's why you persist with your silly games here..kick this OP every day, every hour,
if you like.

For some reason, you believe it serves you.

[King_David]

213. Serves me ?

Think this is all about me ?

I don't speak for the Jews , just myself.

[King_David]

217. Exactly right

[shira]

10. There is always justification for attacking Jews, don't u know? n/t

[King_David]

26. There is never justification for attacking Jews,

But it seems now in 2014 attacks on Jews are blamed on the occupation.
It is the same people attacking Jews as always but now they use Israel and Zionism as their cover , hence the support all these big anti-Israel demonstrations are garnering.
look no further than this thread as proof.

[Jefferson23]

33. Justification and understanding correlations for what motivates violence are two different things.

Your OP's point this out, clearly. If you wanted a different outcome, don't post OP's
that spell it out so clearly.

[shira]

34. So Hamas terror correlates to settlers who just burned that kid.

If they say that's what motivated them, correct?

[King_David]

38. Oh the OP is clear enough,

And illustrates where support for Hamas and opposition to Israel really comes from, especially in the West.

People with hatred for Jews climb aboard the anti Israel , end the occupation bandwagon and can continue with their same old anti-Semitic bigotry unabated.

Boston, Morocco, Melbourne, Paris are all perfect illustrations.

[Jefferson23]

40. I have news for you, the OP you posted..you can't rewrite it.

If you wish to disavow the occupation from any violence as blow back from the occupation,
I suggest you do not post OP's like this one.

What is odd, is that you seem to think the occupation is not any where near as brutal
and horrific that any Arabs and or Muslims would have a problem with it..or anyone else
for that matter.

Interesting.

[King_David]

41. Another tangent,

When we were talking about Jew Haters using the occupation to justify attacks on Jews.


The whole reason there is a groundswell of anti Israel sentiment. Nothing new except the same old Jew haters now have a 'cause'.

[Jefferson23]

42. Disconnected.

Have a good day.

[King_David]

43. Yes you made the right 'call'

C ya

[Jefferson23]

44. I think so, anyone interested can read the OP and my responses...I have no concerns. n/t

[King_David]

45. Not at all,

It was a very illuminating thread.

[King_David]

130. It's spreading

[Jefferson23]

131. Sorry to hear that, unintended consequences are a terrible thing. n/t

[King_David]

132. AntiSemitic incidents excused like that are a favorite meme

On extremist right wing websites

[Jefferson23]

133. No excuses were given, but you can try and smear it that way..smear the CIA reports too. n/t

[King_David]

134. Saying that attacking Jews anywhere is a "consequence"

Of anything is an excuse and totally disgusting.

Not so disgusting on sites like Rense or Stormfront but to find somebody excusing antiSemitic incidents as a "consequence " of anything , here on DU ?

[Jefferson23]

135. Absurd, chidlish tactics in your attempt to misrepresent. You will say anything to

to put distance between the occupation and the violence it brings as a consequence.

There are no excuses, you wish to conflate it that way...your agenda is obvious.

Our military:

Former CENTCOM Head: U.S. Pays ‘Security Price’ For Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/07/22/2336271/former-centcom-head-us-pays-security-price-for-israeli-palestinian-conflict/

[King_David]

136. Anyone Excusing hate crimes .

Is disgusting and beyond the pale.

And by saying an attack on a Jew , because the person is a Jew ( remember Daniel Pearl anyone ?) is a "consequence " of anything else ?

Is disgusting , repulsive, odious , certainly not progressive and should have no place on DU.

[Jefferson23]

137. Yea, but that's not what I said, and you know it. You can try and smear me and the CENTCOM report

but you're only showing your true agenda.

[King_David]

138. No smear

Anyone can read this thread themselves and see for themselves.

The only one "smearing " you .. Is you yourself.

[Jefferson23]

139. Yes, I do believe you are not sincere and have tried to no end to misrepresent, all to

avoid the CENTCOM reports..which is unfortunate for you.

[King_David]

140. It's revealing for all to read,

Different things draw us all to be so passionate about the goings on 1000's of miles away .

[Jefferson23]

141. I stand by what I said, I do not feel you're sincere. I saw your link to here in another thread

that has nothing what so ever to do with anything I said in this thread, but you'll attempt
to conflate it that way in order to misrepresent.

Your tactics do not intimidate me, try as you may.

[King_David]

142. Intimidate you ?

That's what pointing out and illuminating something repugnant?

Mathew Sheppard did not get what he deserved when he was murdered in a hate crime because he dressed all "gay" and Jews in Paris Moreocco and Boston don't get what they deserve as "consequence " of the occupation and girls don't get raped for dressing as what right wingers call "sluts".

This is not all about YOU.

[Jefferson23]

143. Matthew Sheppard has NOTHING to do with the occupation. DO NOT try and conflate the two.

You're going to bring down this conversation to the gutter if you persist.

People are born gay, people are born of color, they are persecuted due to ignorance
and hate, The occupation is a policy, crafted by Israel's government...there is NO equivalent.
The same is true from the repercussions of Iraq, anti American sentiment that stemmed
from our horrific foreign policies in the ME...there are unintended consequences.

The occupation is NOT a person.

You can run from the CENTCOM report but you would be very foolish to do so.

[King_David]

144. Hate crimes against minorities

Gays , Jews , Muslims , Black People have fuck all to do with the occupation .

And if anyone brought it into the gutter it was the excusing of Hate crimes agains Jews --- clearly seen in this thread.

[Jefferson23]

145. No, that would be you denying the CENTCOM report and misrepresenting to suit your agenda.

On edit: Obvious to me is your insistence that reasons why events occur are to be conflated
as excuses/justifications for crimes....which could not be further from the truth. Explains your point of view regarding
CENTCOM.

[King_David]

146. There's never an excuse for hate crimes

Against any minority be they Jews or Gays or any minority .

There's never an excuse nor justification no matter if some people attempt it with "correlation " that's just plain repugnant.

[Jefferson23]

147. No excuses were given by anyone, but you'll persist to conflate it that way to suit your goal. n/t

[King_David]

148. It's all here in the thread

In black and white.

[Jefferson23]

149. Yea, it is..unfortunately for you. Every time you conflate I will respond when I see it.

CENTCOm reports are revealing..printed in black and white.

[King_David]

150. Why unfortunately for me ?

I was not the one excusing hate crimes against a minority In morrocco because he was a Jew .

And then justifying it by saying there's some correlation and that's why it happened.

This support for Palestinian is multi faceted and shows up in many ways .

Sometimes there is a "correlation " for this support and the World Jewish Minority
( some people call us a problem )

[Jefferson23]

151. You're still at it, conflating and misrepresenting, intentionally..sad really.

Your nonsense, to say the least, is obvious...and yes, unfortunate for you.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

160. Too late.

That spin has hit the gutter some time ago.

[leftynyc]

185. I'm finding your blaming the

occupation for attacks on Jews to be very disturbing. I see no condemnation for it and instead I see almost a complete understanding for what these disgusting bigots are doing (all over the world). Is that really the argument you wish to make?

[IronGate]

188. +1000. nt.

[Jefferson23]

190. I'm not interested in what you think, at all, nor your false claims. n/t

[King_David]

192. This is true. nt

[sabbat hunter]

54. but what does a local

rabbi in Morocco have to do with Israeli airstrikes in Gaza?

It is an anti-Semitic attack, plain and simple, with the excuse of 'retaliation for israeli airstrikes"

[Jefferson23]

58. You know it is an excuse, how?

Do you really and honestly believe they added this for no reason?

The occupation is almost 50 years running and no end in sight..how anyone
can possibly think you can control how people translate the conduct of Israeli
policy, how it impacts the Palestinians and it just stays there is beyond me.

[shira]

9. What a repulsive reply.

Jew haters need no reason or justification to attack. They're haters.

Do you try "understanding" why white nationalists attack Muslims, and when they do are you suggesting that Islamist countries change their policy?

[Jefferson23]

13. You're calling me a Jew hater?

shira
9. What a repulsive reply.

View profile
Jew haters need no reason or justification to attack. They're haters.

Do you try "understanding" why white nationalists attack Muslims, and when they do are you suggesting that Islamist countries change their policy?

[shira]

18. No, I'm saying your reply is repulsive for reasons given. n/t

[Jefferson23]

20. Then how can you say, no? That does not make sense and is inconsistent with your statements.

[shira]

23. Because people make offensive knee jerk comments constantly....

It doesn't mean they're haters.

It means they're mistaken.

[Jefferson23]

27. But that's not what you said...not at all.

But that's ok..I have no concerns about your opinion about me.

I would hope you would own it though.

[shira]

29. If I wanted to accuse you, I would NOT have criticized your REPLY

I'd have accused you personally. Guess you haven't learned the difference yet.

Hope this helps.

[Jefferson23]

30. Oh it helps alright..no worries. I got your message. n/t

[cali]

154. I doubt that. It's not your mo. you skirt the rules here by insinuating hateful and utrue stuff.

[King_David]

32. I think its clear she said Jew Haters need no justification to attack Jews,

Why would you think she was calling YOU a Jew hater?
Have you attacked Jews?
No I do not think so.

[Jefferson23]

17. Really? Did you judge the same for blow back from our foreign policy with Iraq too?

[Jefferson23]

28. Condemn, I did. I said it was terrible. AND I said it is related to the occupation as does the OP

make the correlation.

Your comprehension is limited.

On edit, I noticed you will not answer my question.

[Kurska]

71. One word and you started your post with "end the occupation" and ended it with "blowback"

Gee, I wonder why people feel like you are focusing on something else.

[Jefferson23]

93. I focused on the correlation, like the OP pointed out. That you feel I did not

point out how terrible the crime due a lack of number of words is of no consequence to me.

My commentary is mine, not here to satisfy anyone else.

[Kurska]

95. Ahem, you took a brutal anti-semitic attack and made it about what Israel is doing wrong.

That is why people have a problem with your post.

[Jefferson23]

96. The OP reflects that correlation, that you don't agree is irrelevant. n/t

[Kurska]

98. Minorities don't earn their hate crimes.

Especially minorities living a thousand plus miles away from where they are supposedly doing bad thing.

Are you starting to maybe have an inkling of understanding why when a Jew who has nothing to do with Israel is brutally attacked going "END THE OCCUPATION NOW ISRAEL OR MORE WILL COME" is beyond stupid?

Maybe?

Just a little?

If you need an example of someone who is highly critical of Israel actually reacting to this crime with a sliver of humanity here you go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113468222#post79

[Jefferson23]

99. Stupid is to imagine a 47 year old occupation is a walk through the park and will have

no greater blow back growing anti semitism seen across demographics.

Are you prepared to argue against what the CIA has told our officials about blow back?
Or is blow back something you believe Israel can control?

Why you would imagine there is no correlation is absurd.

U.S. general: Israel-Palestinian conflict foments anti-U.S. sentiment
General Petraeus: Conflict presents distinct challenges to our ability to advance U.S. interests.
By Haaretz Service | Mar. 17, 2010

http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-s-general-israel-palestinian-conflict-foments-anti-u-s-sentiment-1.264910

[Kurska]

100. Okay let me explain something.

Last edited Sun Jul 13, 2014, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Every Jew is not telepathically link. Not every Jew is responsible for what happens in Israel. Hell a sizeable number of jews don't even like Israel.

When any other group on the planet is the target of a hate crime, we recognize it is a very disgusting thing to do to immediately start rationalizing that hate crime as something that minority brought on themselves.

When you do that, it makes you look like an outright *edit to comply with community standards* and gives ideological cover to the people who commit these horrific crimes in the first place.

[Jefferson23]

101. Are you lacking in comprehension so deeply that you think even for a second that the OP

and the correlation suggests or even implies that is the ONLY reason for anti semitism?

You calling anyone an ass is amusing.

Correlation is not justification...look it up.

[Kurska]

103. You keep using correlation as if it is some detatched way of applying a mathematical formula

You took a brutal attack of a Jew living a thousand miles away from Israel and laid the blame at the feet of the Jewish state, which is something this man had nothing more to do with than you or I.

That is a disgusting thing to do. Just like it would be a disgusting thing to do to blame any minority for the hate crimes done against them. This is a concept you don't seem to understand.

I didn't call you an ass. I said it makes you look like one. I don't know if you're an ass. I don't know you personally.

[Jefferson23]

104. Nonsense. I suggest you read the OP, and the thread. The Rabbi who had the crap beat out of him made

the statements. He does not agree with you.

Thousands of miles away? How many miles away did bin laden live from NYC?

You have evidence the CIA was wrong about that blow back to foreign policy too?

Correlation is not justification for a crime. I do believe you are living in a bubble,
understanding the far reaching consequences of a near 50 year occupation
and how that resentment can get blurred and indeed result in ugly crimes is real.

That you find my opinions disgusting is irrelevant to me.

[Kurska]

105. I find it amazing you can't comprehend the difference

Between saying "I was unjustly attacked, because someone was mad about something I didn't do" and you following that up with the idea of "Israel better stop doing that thing, because apparently the Jewish state's actions should be dictated by anti-semitic thugs living thousands of miles away".



As a gay person, I wonder if I was attacked by thugs you'd chime in "Well clearly we need to stop having gay pride in San Fransico, we're just antagonizing those poor homophobes. They can't control themselves."

I suspect not.

[Jefferson23]

106. Puke right back at ya. Enjoy your bubble.

On edit, what does gay have to do with this?

One day you might figure out that correlation is not justification for a crime.

Interesting you have no comment about foreign policy blow back our CIA acknowledges.

[Kurska]

107. Yes it is a bubble to not blame minorities for their own hate crimes.

I'm done with you. Have a wonderful life.



One for the road.

[Jefferson23]

108. Good luck, one day you may be bored and look up that correlation is not justification for crimes.

One day you may read about foreign policy blow back..it's not a new concept.

Puke yourself silly for all I care.

[Kurska]

109. k

(couldn't resist)

[Jefferson23]

110. Maybe it will help you to read through a dictionary, you could help yourself or not.

Then check out the files from the CIA on blow back and foreign policy.

Why you think puking on yourself helps you, I can't say.

[Kurska]

111. Why blowback?

When I can blow chunks?



Alright I'll admit it, I'm enjoying myself now.

[Jefferson23]

112. Enjoy, but why you like puking on yourself, I don't know..it's sad. n/t

[Kurska]

113. Wait why would you assume that I am puking ON myself?

Is that a thing people do? I wasn't aware. Generally I try to puke places that aren't me.

....

>.>

<.<

>.>

[Jefferson23]

114. Sorry, it's all over you. Try and get help for it. n/t

[King_David]

152. +1

[King_David]

35. 'What does a Jew in France or Morocco have to do with this?'

That is where a lot of the support comes from for Hamas.

Especially from extremist right and extremist left wing AntiZionist/AntiSemitic peeps.

[King_David]

60. Me too I condemn every single disgusting price tag attacks. nt

[Jefferson23]

162. None were given, but you knew that when you posted this response..regardless. n/t

[Starboard Tack]

155. Sounds like you are justifying this attack

Am I right? Do you think beting a rabbi in Morocco is, in some way, a valid response, or "blowback" as you put it, for Israel's actions in Gaza?

[azurnoir]

156. did you read the OP it was the very first sentence in the snip

The rabbi of the Jewish community in Casablanca, Morocco, Rabbi Moshe Ohayon, claims he was badly beaten on Friday as a retaliation by locals for Israel’s airstrikes in Gaza.

I've been quietly watching this go on for a week, what is the purpose?

[Starboard Tack]

157. I did read it.

What is your point? Do you think the rabbi's claim is not valid and he was beaten for some other reason?
What do you mean by "what is the purpose"?

[azurnoir]

158. do you think the Rabbi's claim is valid? but here's the comment I was replying too

Star Member Starboard Tack (9,426 posts)
155. Sounds like you are justifying this attack

Am I right? Do you think beting a rabbi in Morocco is, in some way, a valid response, or "blowback" as you put it, for Israel's actions in Gaza?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=70766

and the one I'm replying to

157. I did read it.

View profile
What is your point? Do you think the rabbi's claim is not valid and he was beaten for some other reason?
What do you mean by "what is the purpose"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=70798

[Jefferson23]

161. No, I'm not, never have and you can read the thread, if you like. n/t

[Starboard Tack]

163. I did read the thread.

Your first post begins with "End the occupation"
What does that have to do with a rabbi being attacked in Morocco. If you are not trying to justify this attack, then why make such a connection?

[King_David]

164. Exactly right

[Jefferson23]

165. Then I would venture you did not understand the thread. No excuses/justifiying was given.

End the occupation. Terrible for the Rabbi, frightening blow back. n/t ( That is what I said )

That you do not understand, I can't help you. I do believe from the
Rabbi's statements, he does understand. Reasons why a violent act occurs are not excuses
nor justifications for that said violence.

[Starboard Tack]

166. You believe that the rabbi understands? Really?

Please explain to us how the rabbi understands? And what exactly the rabbi understands? And what exactly is it that I do not understand?
Let me help you here. I understand that the rabbi was beaten up and that his attacker made it clear to him why he was beating him up. I also understand that you think the rabbi would not have been beaten up had Israel withdrawn from the territory it occupies. You also infer that to avoid such incidents in future Israel should withdraw from these occupied territories. Am I correct?

[Jefferson23]

167. I can only go by his statements, and they are clear as to the reason he was attacked.

You: I also understand that you think the rabbi would not have been beaten up had Israel withdrawn from the territory it occupies.

Strawman, that is not my argument. Deal with what happened..he was attacked for the reasons he stated.

You: You also infer that to avoid such incidents in future Israel should withdraw from these occupied territories. Am I correct?

The occupation should end first and foremost because it's continuation does not bring peace.
Ending the occupation, same as ending a horrific foreign policy we had in Iraq, would go a long way
to seeing an end to the uptick in violence as an unintended consequence to the occupation.
This current military operation has brought with it much protest and violence to those who
are not responsible for Israeli policy..that is blowback.

If you read the thread as you claim, then you would have read the CENTCOM reports, just as there
were reports following 9/11.

Why do think Obama's Cairo speech before winning the election was so universally well received?

I have no idea what you want to understand, as your questions are rhetorical at this point.

[Starboard Tack]

168. The fact is, your immediate response was "End the occupation".

Do you believe that Israel's withdrawal from the occupied territories would in eliminate, or reduce, anti-semitism?

[Jefferson23]

169. You keep insisting on using one part of what I said, for a reason, I suspect, and one which I do not

feel is honest on your part.

The end of the occupation will not eliminate anti-semitism, of course not..it was never the only reason
it occurs, not the reason for its inception and never will be why it ends. This was stated in this thread as well.

[Starboard Tack]

170. So, why did you open with it?

I also think the occupation should end and that a peaceful solution should be sought, but that has nothing to do with the OP. Unless, of course, this rabbi was some kind of shit stirrer, spouting Zionist propaganda in Morocco, but I see nothing in the media to support that.
The problem I have with making comments like yours, in this context, is that it tends to imply a certain legitimacy for such attacks, if not actual support. No matter what injustices occur in Israel and/or Palestine, they never mitigate this kind of attack,

[Jefferson23]

171. You imagine legitimacy..none was given by me nor the CENTCOM reports. Ending the

occupation would indeed limit the spike in violence we see from the ongoing violence
from the occupation. To not see the connection would be to deny what the Rabbi
himself states is the reason he was attacked..reasons do not amount to justification.

So you are arguing with something I never implied nor believe. Rabbi Moshe Ohayon: claims
he was badly beaten on Friday as a retaliation by locals for Israel’s airstrikes in Gaza.
It was later reported the individual was a Muslim, who took his anger out on the Rabbi.

Bad policies, such as our US policies in Iraq prior to 9/11 are understood as reasons for
fanatics and or nationalists to attack people..or groups. No one claims they are justified
and it is smart to recognize this reality...ignoring it or denying it is dangerous.

Do all these events give a seamless explanation? No, there is undoubtedly instances where
people will exploit the political violence happening now and say it is due to whatever political
crisis exists at the moment. There are more than a few unstable people in the world, unfortunately.

[Starboard Tack]

172. Great! Thanks for clarifying.

Sometimes we have to be careful how others might interpret what we say on an anonymous internet board. I have found myself misunderstood more than once.

[Jefferson23]

173. You're very welcome..being misunderstood happens easily..especially with a contentious issue

as this one.

Have a good evening.

[wercal]

176. Psst...those 'occupiers'

Are there because their grandfathers left places like....Morrocco.

I'd like the anti-semites to agree once and for all where the Jews are allowed to live.

[Jefferson23]

177. The anti semites in Morrocco are keeping the occupation going?

Your comments make no sense, please explain.

[WhiteTara]

46. What's the death toll in Palestine today? How many were children? nt

[Jefferson23]

47. List of the 176 Palestinians, Including Whole Families, Killed Since Tuesday ( GRAPHIC WARNING )

Sunday July 13, 2014 03:16author by Saed Bannoura – IMEMC News Report postBombing of Gaza on
WARNING: Graphic image below this list

These are the names that have been confirmed by medical sources in Gaza. An estimated 900 Palestinians have also been wounded, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life. The majority of the wounded are children, according to the Ministry of Health. All of the casualties listed below are victims of Israeli bombs dropped on Gaza since Tuesday July 8th.

http://www.imemc.org/article/68429

[WhiteTara]

48. "The majority of the wounded are children"

Yes, this is the true horror.

[Jefferson23]

51. Always. n/t

[IronGate]

55. Well maybe if the terrorist org Hamas

wouldn't use neighborhoods to position and launch their rockets from, or just plain stopped launching rockets at Israel, then there wouldn't be children killed.

[Jefferson23]

59. Background on Human Shields

Published:
1 Jan 2011

On 6 October 2005, Israel's High Court of Justice ruled that it was illegal for the army to use Palestinian civilians during military actions. The court ruled on a petition submitted by Adalah in the name of B'Tselem and six other human rights organizations in 2002. The petition followed the army's use of Palestinian civilians as human shields since the beginning of the second intifada, primarily during operations carried out in densely populated Palestinian areas, as occurred in Operation Defensive Shield.

The method was the same each time: soldiers picked a civilian at random and forced him to protect them with his body, and do dangerous tasks for them. For example, soldiers have ordered Palestinians to:

enter buildings to check if they are booby-trapped, or to remove the occupants;
remove suspicious objects from roads;
stand inside houses where soldiers set up military positions, so that Palestinians would not fire at them;
and walk in front of soldiers to shield them from gunfire, while the soldiers point a gun to their backs and sometimes fire over their shoulders.

The soldiers in the field did not initiate this practice; rather, the order to use civilians as a means of protection was made by senior army officials.

In August 2002, Nidal Abu Mheisen, a 19-year-old Palestinian from Tubas, was killed by Palestinian gunfire when soldiers forced him to serve as a human shield.

Despite the High Court's decision and army orders given before and after it, security forces continued to use Palestinians as human shields, although the number of cases dropped. In 2007, for example, B'Tselem documented 14 such instances. The organization wrote to the Military Advocate General Corps, demanding an investigation into each of the cases. B'Tselem’s monitoring indicates that a Military Police investigation was opened in 13 of them: in two of the cases, the investigation is continuing; in seven cases, the file was closed; and four were transferred to a military advocate for a decision whether to file charges.

During the course of Operation Cast Lead, which took place in Gaza in January 2009, B'Tselem and other organizations were informed of cases in which soldiers used Palestinians as human shields. In one case, two soldiers were prosecuted for ordering a nine-year-old boy gunpoint to open a bag that they suspected was booby-trapped. The two were given a three-month conditional sentence and demoted from staff.

http://www.btselem.org/human_shields

[shira]

62. You can't seriously advocate 4 Palestinian lives by denying Hamas human shielding. n/t

[Jefferson23]

97. I have no idea what your point is..from what you said. n/t

[shira]

124. Those who deny Hamas using Palestinian children as shields....

...or militants are excusing and explaining away Hamas war crimes and abuse committed against Gazan kids. Proving they couldn't give a shit about Palestinians. Meaning they're not pro-Palestinian but Israel haters.

Get it now?

Seems obvious. How am I wrong? Tell me.

[Jefferson23]

125. That is your reaction to the report on the IDF?

That would make them Arab haters.

It's not hard, no one should use innocent people.

[shira]

127. You purposely deflected from Hamas use of shields....

...onto the IDF and it's obvious why. Your utter contempt for Israel is far stronger than any concern you purport to have for Palestinian innocents that Hamas uses and abuses for propaganda purposes.

[Jefferson23]

128. Nah, it was posted for anyone here who thinks or expected that the IDF has never conducted

themselves like Hamas.


The rest of your nonsense is just that, nonsense.

[IronGate]

64. So, Israel outlawed the use of civilians as human shields

and there were some violations of the policy, whereas, it's the policy of Hamas to use civilians as human shields.
Well, you've changed my mind.

[Jefferson23]

92. The IDF as has been documented, continued to utilize human shields. n/t

[WhiteTara]

63. The building filled with disabled people

was a Hamas position? No.
Scorched earth is a terrible policy IMHO

[IronGate]

65. Hamas has a well established policy of using such buildings as military positions

just to create civilian casualties to embarrass Israel, and unless you were there, you nor I know whether or not Hamas was firing rockets from this building.
Judging from past Hamas deeds, I tend to believe Israel.

[WhiteTara]

66. Judging by Israel's past deeds

I tend to not believe them.

[IronGate]

67. Fine,

but Israel has a much better record of credibility than the terrorist org., Hamas.

[WhiteTara]

68. I remember Shatilla and Sabra

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

Israel has no standing in my eyes.

[IronGate]

70. Good for you. nt.

But Israel is going to go after terrorists like Hamas despite not having any standing in your eyes and I'll support their right to do so 100%.

[840high]

121. Thank you +100

[leftynyc]

186. +1000

Israel has no standing with the poster but hamas is just peachy keen as a source of truth. Vomit.

[King_David]

193. +2000

Thank you

[PCIntern]

72. No standing...

Does America have standing? Think: Japanese Internment, My Lai Massacre...?
Does Russia have standing? Stalin's massacres, pogroms, summary executions, what goes/went on under Red Square?
Does Germany have standing: WWI, WWII, Holocaust, Eastern Front?
Does Japan hav e standing: Pearl Harbor, Bataan Death March

Or is it Israel which gets your goat exclusively?

[WhiteTara]

73. That's not the conversation. nt

[PCIntern]

74. Of course it isn't...it never is.

After all, it only matters if Israel does it, right?

[WhiteTara]

75. You want that conversation?

Start an OP. Then that will be the conversation.

[sabbat hunter]

87. If you remember it then

you will remember this

Sabra and Shatila massacre was the slaughter of between 762 and 3,500 civilians, mostly Palestinians and Lebanese Shiites, by the Kataeb Party, a Lebanese Christian militia

from your own wiki link.

[WhiteTara]

88. after Ariel Sharon gave the go ahead and stood by and

allowed the massacre to take place. Again, mostly women and children.

[rateyes]

174. So, you are excusing the actions of that butcher, Ariel Sharon?

[sabbat hunter]

178. did

Sharon or any of the IDF troops kill anyone in that camp?

[rateyes]

179. Way to deflect from answering the question.

I will answer your question after you answer mine.

[King_David]

180. What deflection?

He asked that question almost 100 posts before you jumped in. His question should be answered 1st.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=68533

[rateyes]

181. There was not a question in the post you linked to. Read it again.

He made a statement about The massacres at Sabra and Shatilla in an attempt to defend Sharon. I asked if he was excusing Sharon's actions. He answered with a question of his own, deflecting. i asked him a question before he asked me one. I will answer his after he answers mine.

Oh, btw, do you excuse Sharon's actions at Sabra and Shatila?

[King_David]

182. I agree with what was said here,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=68533

[rateyes]

183. And, that doesn't answer the question.

Do you excuse Sharon's actions at Sabra and Shatilla?. It seems you do.

[rateyes]

184. Crickets

The non-response from both you and the hunter tells me all I need to know.

[sabbat hunter]

191. some of us

do have other things to do than constantly check a particular thread


Sharon and the IDF did not kill a single person in those camps.

Should have Sharon stopped the militas from entering? that is an entirely different question. Yes he should have taken some action against them entering, but not engaged them with force as they were Israeli allies.

[King_David]

194. What you said +1

[rateyes]

196. The fact that you would give any cover

to Sharon reinforces my opinion. Your answer should have been a simple "no." Your post basically says it is ok for someone who has the power to stop a massacre not to stop it as long as he doesn't personally do the shooting. I wonder what your opinion would be if it were innocent Israelis being slaughtered.

[King_David]

197. I never heard you condemn the Lebanese who actually

Carried out the massacre and physically butchered the innocent refugees in the camps .

[rateyes]

198. Of course I condemn them. Let me now hear you condemn Sharon.

I wont hold my breath waiting for it, though.

[King_David]

199. Who are you demanding we answer to you?

This thread is about anti-Semites beating up a Rabbi and all the Jew hatred emanating from these Gaza rallies worldwide in July 2014.

You want a tangential topic about Sharon or other history ? Start 1

[rateyes]

200. And you engaged in the side conversation

up until you were asked to condemn the butchers, including Sharon, of Sabra and Shatila. If I started my own conversation, you would no doubt not participate in it.

And, btw, I wasnt the first one in this side conversation to go off topic from the thread. Again, you had no problem jumping in until you were caught showing your support for the butchers of Sabra and Shatila.

[King_David]

201. Deflecting from the real topic here

That what's illustrated is these "supporters" of Gaza not so much go to rallies for that reason but are motivated by hatred of Jews .. Worldwide .

[rateyes]

202. There is enough hatred on both sides to go around, worldwide.

I see true anti-semitism and I see people who aren't anti-semitic being accused of it because they are critical of Israel. I see racism on the part of some Zionists, and I see Zionists who aren't racists being accused of it.

I find it extremely sad that there are some who accuse others of hatred while not acknowledging the hatred in their own hearts. And, I find it extremely troubling when a citizen/supporter of any country refuses to condemn the brutal actions of their leaders because they can't put their nationalism aside long enough.

If there is ever going to be peace in Israel/Palestine, it has to start with each side owning up to their own hatred and turning from it. That's why Gaza should reject Hamas and Israel should reject Likud and the likes of Bibi Netanyahu.

It's why I asked you to condemn Sharon. The fact that you wouldn't do that just reinforces my opinion that hatred is going to win out in I/P, and that, in the end, we are all going to lose.

[King_David]

203. Not going on your tangent

Bye

[rateyes]

204. I didn't expect you would.

Bye.

[King_David]

69. Hamas is to blame for every death in this conflict

Hamas is to blame for almost all the tragic Palestinian deaths by hiding their weapons and rockets amongst their most vulnerable.

I agree with you it's horrific and must be stopped. Palestinians are literally dying because of Hamas.

[WhiteTara]

76. I think this map gives a different explanation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113468415

Thanks for realizing this is a horror of epic proportions and that Israel must cease the bombardment.

[King_David]

81. And then ?

Maybe The Jewish State should just lie back and take it . Allow Hamas to hit the nuclear reactor and nuke the whole area.

Good solution.

Great idea .

Except Jews no longer go like lambs to the slaughter - not since 1948.

[WhiteTara]

83. And then? How about Israel gives back its stolen land

and then maybe there will be peace. But when you give no hope for human life you get what you get. And if they hit the nuke facilities, maybe Israel will admit they have them.

[King_David]

85. If those maniacs hit the nuclear facility

I'm the fashion they admitted to and bragged about there will be nobody talking to anyone.

Half the worlds Jewish population wiped out and 1/100 of the worlds Muslim population wiped out.

You support this?

[WhiteTara]

89. Time to disarm. nt

[King_David]

90. Imagine if Hamas got hold of a nuclear weapon?

They just proved they would not hesitate to use it, even against the Palestinian people.

[WhiteTara]

91. Even more reason to disarm. nt

[leftynyc]

187. You would give into terrorists like that?

You honestly think that's a good idea? How about when they decide all gays need to die? You going to handle it? Disarm my ass.

[IronGate]

189. Even more reason to disarm?

Yeah, that's a great fucking strategy.
That's actually the strategy of fools, not realists.
If Israel were to relinquish it's nuclear capability, then they would disappear from the face of the earth, is that what you're hoping for?

[King_David]

195. Israel is not suicidal

Jews no longer go like lambs...

Not since 1948

[Shaktimaan]

123. Admit dimona?

Everyone knows Israel has a nuclear power plant. It's not the same thing as a nuclear missile factory you know.

83. And then? How about Israel gives back its stolen land

Oh. Like in Gaza? How's that peace been working out so far?

Unless of course by "stolen land" you're just referring to all of Israel. Which I agree, giving that back would probably stop the conflict.

[madaboutharry]

57. Connecting every anti Semitic attack

to Israel is disingenuous and dishonest. Some people hate Jews for no other reason than they just hate Jews.

[840high]

122. Correct. Very sad.

[Scootaloo]

79. What a cowardly, craven little shit.

Beating up an old man, who's begging them to stop. I would say he ought to feel ashamed, but i know he doesn't. He's known to the police, and i hope he enjoys his time in prison.

[shaayecanaan]

115. Definitely...

I would hope that the Moroccan authorities would be receptive, King Mohamed has been very instrumental in trying to improve security for the Jewish minority.

[Aerows]

214. Horrible

and like you, I hope the iron bar hotel is his residence for a long time.

[Jefferson23]

126. Rabbi of Casablanca assaulted over Israel’s Gaza operation

JTA - The rabbi of the Jewish community in Casablanca, Morocco, was beaten on Friday night as he walked to synagogue for Sabbath services, allegedly because of Israel’s Gaza operation, according to local and Israeli reports.

Rabbi Moshe Ohayon suffered a broken nose and broken ribs, and was beaten on the head in the attack, according to the French language alyaexpress-news.com. The rabbi reportedly asked passers-by for help but was ignored.

The alleged attacker, a local Muslim man in his 20s, reportedly told the rabbi during the attack that it was in retribution for Israeli airstrikes on Gaza. The assailant is known to local police, according to the report, and officers were searching for him in order to arrest him.

Following the attack, Casablanca Jews called on local authorities to increase security around synagogues and other Jewish institutions.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.604938

[King_David]

129. Kick

[King_David]

153. Kick

[King_David]

210. Kick

[Scootaloo]

215. Any updates Dave? n/t