Obama to Netanyahu: U.S. seeks immediate cease-fire

[Jefferson23]

IDF death toll rises to 18; Kerry: Israel has right to defend itself; 50 Palestinians killed in Shuja'iyya, Gaza death toll rises to 436 ● IDF troops uncover 40 tunnels in Gaza, 14 of them whole.


By Haaretz | Jul. 20, 2014 | 9:37 PM

Thirteen Israeli soldiers were killed Sunday in battle in the Gaza Strip, bringing to 18 the number of Israeli fatalities over the course of the operation, not including two civilians who died in rocket attacks. Eight soldiers have been wounded. At least 130 Palestinians have been killed since Israel began its ground incursion last week, raising the death toll in Gaza to 350 since the beginning of the operation 13 days ago, including at least 76 children and 36 women.

The Israel Defense Forces uncovered at least 40 tunnels in Gaza territory over the weekend and arrested 13 Hamas militants, who have been brought to Israel for interrogation. A senior IDF officer said over the weekend the vast majority of the tunnels that Israeli troops are currently trying to locate and neutralize have already been attacked from the air. The goal for the troops on the ground, he said, is to ensure the tunnels cannot be made operational again in the near future.

Diplomatic efforts to broker a cease-fire have failed to produce a breakthrough, despite initials signs of progress over the weekend. Israeli, Palestinian and American officials that there are signs that the Egyptian cease-fire proposal – rejected last week by Hamas – is back on the table, since it has widespread international support and the backing of the Arab League.


9:25 P.M. U.S. President Barack Obama tells Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a phone call on Sunday afternoon that the U.S. seeks "an immediate cessation of hostilities" between Israel and Hamas, based on the cease-fire agreement implemented in November 2012 after Operation Pillar of Defense. (Barak Ravid)

http://www.haaretz.com/1.606129

[4now]

1. US support of IDF murdering civilians must stop

[ann---]

51. I'm with you

I'm ashamed of Obama's non-reaction to this horror in Gaza.

[Fred Sanders]

2. Weekly Civilian Death scoreboard: Putin 298, Bibi 300 (estimated), Hamas 1.

[Jefferson23]

3. Netanyahu: We bow our heads to the fallen soldiers, but carry on with operation

Prime minister sends condolences to families of the 13 Golani soldiers killed in Gaza: 'There isn't a more just war than that in which your sons bravely died in.'

Attila Somfalvi

Published: 07.20.14, 21:07

The fall of the Golani Brigade soldiers is painful and difficult, but Israel continues its Gaza operation full speed ahead - that's the message coming from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday night in a press conference he held with Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon, following the death of 13 IDF soldiers in the Gaza Strip in the past 24 hours.

"We bow our heads to our fallen sons, who died so we could continue living in our country," Netanyahu said at the beginning of his remarks. "I would like to express, on behalf of the government of Israel and the people of Israel, the deep pain we feel. We send our condolences to the parents, children, partners and families of the IDF soldiers who fell in battle. I want to tell you, there isn't a war more just war than that in which your sons bravely died in."

The prime minister promised "to complete the task to restore calm to the south, central Israel and the rest of the country."

"I believe every one of us knows at least one person who is taking part in this operation, and this communal unity, that is unique to us, to our people, is also the secret to our strength," the prime minister said. "We must stand together, united. We must be strong in difficult days, like this day and in days that might come. We are fighting for our home."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4547180,00.html

[ann---]

52. Bibi

Last edited Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Yahoo should send condolences to the families of the hundreds of innocents that Israelis have murdered, maimed or wounded.

[shira]

4. Good luck getting Hamas to agree to unconditional ceasefire. n/t

[shaayecanaan]

6. If there is any truth to the claim they have a captured soldier

Hamas will probably take the ceasefire now.

[bemildred]

7. Yes, definitely quit while you are ahead time for Hamas.

Like you, I'm not sure they will agree.

[shaayecanaan]

11. Im not sure the Israelis will agree

they might not feel as peaceful now that Hamas have given them a blood nose.

[bemildred]

12. U.N. Security Council to meet on Sunday on Gaza -diplomats

(Reuters) - The U.N. Security Council will hold an emergency meeting on Sunday night, said diplomats, to discuss almost two weeks of fighting between Israel and the Islamist Hamas group in the Palestinian Gaza Strip that has cost more than 400 lives.

Jordan requested the meeting after more than 60 Palestinians and 13 Israeli soldiers were killed as Israel shelled Gaza's Shejaia neighborhood and battled militants in the bloodiest fighting in the 13-day offensive.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who is in the Middle East in a bid to help broker a ceasefire, condemned on Sunday as an "atrocious action" the killings in Shejaia and called for an immediate end to the fighting.

Ban was in Qatar on Sunday and is also due to visit Cairo, Jerusalem and Ramallah in the West Bank.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/20/palestinians-israel-un-idUSL2N0PV0KI20140720?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews&rpc=401

You are right, but other parties may get involved too.

[azurnoir]

8. apparently Israel says he's dead

Derek StoffelVerified account ‏@DerekStoffelCBC

Israeli defence reporters saying IDF denies Hamas claim that a soldier was captured. Name used belongs to 1 of soldiers killed. #CBC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/20/hamas-captures-soldier_n_5603977.html

as to what Hamas will do, I'm thinking they won't accept a cease fire that doesn't at least give a glancing nod to their demands not for the best but there it is

[shaayecanaan]

13. clearly they got close enough to read his dog tag...

perhaps they have his corpse?

Even a body would be enough to satisfy some of their objectives. They could probably get the release of their members that have been re-arrested at least.

[azurnoir]

9. something else 'odd'

the 4 big English language Israeli papers -Ynet, Jpost, Haaretz and ToI are not reporting it at all no mention period

[shaayecanaan]

10. they didnt mention the deaths for a day

supposedly on the pretext that they wanted to inform the families first. Normally the israeli government mentions the bare fact that there are deaths, and follows up with details once the families have been informed.

Meanwhile the Arab media was reporting on the hamas reports for a whole day, al jazeera held off, thinking that hamas must be making it up if the israelis hadnt commented.

[azurnoir]

16. yes but in this case they claim he's already dead that he was one of the soldiers killed in combat

and that is the reason this strikes me as odd, it would not be altogether unusual for the Israeli press to print a story something like "Hamas fakes capture of already dead soldier" but it hasn't as of yet add to that all the noise in Knesset about no more prisoner exchanges for captured soldiers and the picture is curious, which is why I commented

[azurnoir]

45. well:IDF: One of 7 soldiers killed Sunday still missing; 2 killed Monday

IDF: One of 7 soldiers killed Sunday still missing; 2 killed Monday

Cleared for publication: Body of one soldier killed in Gaza still missing, as IDF announce Sgt. Oded Ben Sira named as one of two additional soldiers killed Monday.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4547981,00.html

That is all that is said about the rest of the article is about the other soldiers

[Fred Sanders]

15. Censorship in war is standard.

[azurnoir]

17. sometimes but when it comes to numbers Israel's not censoring

the 13 dead died in the same time frame as the bombardment of Shuja’iyeh, that's in addition to the 5 or 6 others that were killed in the 2 previous days, all of this must to some degree come as a surprise to the Israeli government because at this point more IDF have died in this one operation against Gaza than in the 3 previous Gaza operations combined Pillar of Cloud, Cast Lead, and Hot Winter, that combined with a post I made above is why I think this odd

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113471001#post16


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/israel-ramps-gaza-offensive-after-13-idf-soldiers-killed-n160541

[shaayecanaan]

18. pretty pointless in the internet age though nt

[Fred Sanders]

21. Not at all. No news source, no news, just speculation and propaganda. The internet has not created

a single fact.

[Fred Sanders]

14. Lucky for Israel that the soldier is apparently deceased, not captured, in guerrilla warfare capture

Of an enemy combatant is a major goal.

Notice the media focus on one living soldier and not so much on 14 dead soldiers.

[NaturalHigh]

19. "Notice the media focus on one living soldier and not so much on 14 dead soldiers."

Probably because the soldiers who were killed aren't subject to torture. Just a guess...

[Fred Sanders]

20. Poor guess, the same worry as the captured Hamas fighters also, I guess, maybe tortured.

War is hell.

[azurnoir]

23. Tell us was Gilad Shalit tortured?

[Jefferson23]

22. Envoy says US will work to get Abbas back ruling Gaza after conflict over

http://www.timesofisrael.com/envoy-says-us-will-work-to-get-abbas-back-ruling-gaza-after-conflict-over/

[Jefferson23]

24. So much for democracy: Outrage as France become first country in world to ban pro-Palestine demos

France's Socialist government provoked outrage today by becoming the first in the world to ban protests against Israeli action in Palestine.

In what is viewed as an outrageous attack on democracy, Socialist Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said mass demonstrations planned for the weekend should be halted.

Mr Cazeneuve said there was a ‘threat to public order’, while opponents said he was ‘criminalising’ popular support of the Palestinian people.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697194/Outrage-France-country-world-ban-pro-Palestine-demos.html

[Jefferson23]

25. Netanyahu says Gaza op will expand until goals achieved

Hezbollah vows to aid Hamas; major rocket barrage fired at south and central Israel, two rockets intercepted over greater Tel Aviv; Gaza militants infiltrate south, casualties among IDF troops; IDF death toll rises to 18, six fallen soldiers named; Gaza death toll rises to 508.

By Haaretz | Jul. 21, 2014 | 3:45 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606315

[Jefferson23]

26. With little help from Iran, Hamas fights Israel with homemade rockets

Unlike the previous war in Gaza in 2012, Iran has not declared the same level of support for Hamas in its current fight against Israel. Also unlike the previous war, it has not taken credit for the rockets owned by Hamas and launched on Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa and Gush Dan.

Hamas has made sure to emphasize the locally made arsenal by giving these rockets purely Palestinian names, in light of the absence of the Iranian-made Fajr rocket.

Locally made rockets were given the names of founding leaders of Hamas who were assassinated by Israel in the previous years, namely, the M-75 rockets reaching Jerusalem, R-160 rockets that Hamas used on Haifa and J-80 rockets of an 80-kilometer (50-mile) range and targeting Tel Aviv in central Israel.

Al-Monitor learned that in recent months, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades carried out successful military trials in the Mediterranean Sea of these Gaza-produced rockets with a range of tens of kilometers. The sounds of these trial operations were heard in different areas of the Gaza Strip, especially in coastal areas. Although relations between Hamas and Iran have improved, it has not resulted in the resumption of major financial aid or weapons to the Gaza Strip.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/hamas-war-israel-without-iran-support.html#ixzz386yltcIo

[bemildred]

27. It appears to me that Hamas made good use of Morsi's short reign. nt

[Jefferson23]

28. Certainly looks that way, agreed. n/t

[bemildred]

29. Israel Repels Hamas Tunnel Infiltrations

Israel repelled two underground infiltrations by Hamas militants into its territory from the Gaza Strip on Monday following a night of Israeli attacks that left a heavy toll of casualties in the Palestinian territory.

The Palestinian Health Ministry said the Palestinian death toll in the two-week-old Israeli offensive, aimed at destroying Hamas's cross-border tunnel network, rose by more than 80 during the night and now exceeds 500. Many were killed in heavy Israeli shelling and airstrikes in southern Gaza, the ministry said.

---

Israel'sHaaretz newspaper reported on its website that Israeli forces suffered some casualties in the second encounter. An Israeli army spokeswoman wouldn't comment on the report.

The army released two video clips of that incident, one showing a group of five militants in camouflage combat gear hunkered down in an overgrown field firing machine guns. A second clip showed the figures firing while running in the opposite direction, in what the army called a retreat into the tunnel.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/israel-repels-hamas-tunnel-infiltrations-20140721-00554

[bemildred]

30. 'From Iron Dome to an iron fist:' Israel-Gaza told through quotes

Israel is in the midst of its second ground invasion of the Gaza Strip in six years. Here’s the story of the ceaseless conflict, told through historic quotes.

“We are a generation that settles the land, and without the steel helmet and the cannon’s fire we will not be able to plant a tree and build a home.” – Moshe Dayan, April 1956

This is from a funeral oration delivered by Dayan, then chief of the Israel Defense Forces. Dayan, a seminal figure in Israeli history, was honoring a settler killed in a kibbutz near the border with the Gaza Strip, then technically under Egyptian control. The thin slice of land had seen an influx of Palestinian refugees after Israel’s 1948 war of independence, as Israeli forces seized and razed myriad Palestinian villages. Neighboring Arab states had fought against Israel’s creation. A decade later, Israel took control of Gaza following the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

“Raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.” – The founding charter of the militant Islamic group Hamas, 1988

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014/07/21/3760435/from-iron-dome-to-an-iron-fist.html#storylink=rss

[bemildred]

31. From Kerry to Selena Gomez & Rihanna, Israel’s Claims of Precision, Compassion Are Dissed

By Juan Cole

You always wonder where John Kerry the anti-Vietnam War activist went, who compared the US campaigns in Southeast Asia to the predations of the Mongols. It turns out he is still in there somewhere, just not allowed to appear before the cameras. But in a ‘hot-mic’ moment on Fox on Sunday, Kerry appeared to reference the Israeli massacre at al-Shuja`iya in Gaza by Israeli planes and/or artillery, which left 60 dead & 200 wounded. Kerry called sardonically “a hell of a pinpoint operation.” His reference is to Israeli propagandists who keep saying that Israel’s airstrikes in densely populated Gaza are “precision strikes” when very obviously they are massive and indiscriminate, having killed over 500 as of Sunday night, over 70% of them noncombatants, including women and children. Although Hamas, the combatants, are fair game, the noncombatants are not. Israel doesn’t get off the hook by saying Hamas uses human shields. First, most of those people Israel killed were not being used as human shields. Second, international law forbids military commanders to strike if it seems likely they will kill a lot of innocents.

http://www.juancole.com/2014/07/rihanna-precision-compassion.html

[bemildred]

32. Syrian civil war clips get recycled for Israel-Gaza propaganda battle

Partisans on both sides of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict have rehashed graphic videos from the Syrian civil war to demonize the other, International Business Times reported Monday.

On the pro-Israeli side, one user ziv121213 uploaded a video to YouTube on Friday to demonstrate how Hamas uses children as human shields against Israeli fire. The video had over 111,000 likes as of Monday. The problem is the video was previously uploaded in February, portraying Syrian children launching mortar together.

The description in Arabic, according to the Times, reads, "After the brutal SAF-Barrel Bomb Attacks these Syrian kids decide to give an answer to Assad," referring to the Syrian Air Force and the president of Syria.
The Electronic Intifada exposed the hoax hours later on Friday.

On the pro-Palestinian side, the Times discovered, the Kashmir Headlines news service posted on Facebook a video of a father hugging his dead son. The caption reads, "Watch what International Media is hiding from you #GazaUnderAttack #PrayforGaza #FreeGaza." The video actually originated in Syria.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606436

[bemildred]

33. Report: Israel attacked long-range missile depot in Sudan

Israel stuck a warehouse in Sudan housing long-range missiles heading for Hamas in Gaza, according to a London-based Arabic newspaper.

Al-Arab quoted unnamed sources in Khartoum, the capital of Sudan, as saying that Israel bombed an ammunition warehouse last Friday located north of the capital. Sudanese officials had claimed the explosion was caused by a local fire, according to reports.

Israel’s military has not responded to the allegations.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606426

[bemildred]

34. Hezbollah: Gaza resistance will defeat Israel

Beirut - Lebanon's Hezbollah is backing the Palestinian "resistance" in Gaza to defeat Israel, the Shi'ite movement's leader Hassan Nasrallah said on Monday.

Nasrallah told Hamas' exiled chief Khaled Meshaal by telephone: "Hezbollah and the Lebanese resistance stand firmly on the side of the Intifada and the Palestinian people's resistance, and support Hamas' strategy and the just conditions it has set to end the conflict."

Hamas is demanding Israel end its siege of Gaza and has called for the release of scores of prisoners from Israeli jails before it considers peace talks proposed by Egypt.

Nasrallah, meanwhile, expressed his "complete confidence in the resistance's capacity to defend itself and to achieve a new victory in July", a reference to Israel's failure to crush Hezbollah in its July 2006 offensive against Lebanon.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Hezbollah-Gaza-resistance-will-defeat-Israel-20140721

[Jefferson23]

35. Interesting expressions of confidence..what's next? n/t

[bemildred]

36. Hard to say.

In the circumstances, they have to root for Gaza. But if they really decide to offer more support, it's another matter. That would improve Hamas' position, and provoke who knows what actions and storms of outrage. Edit: and further entangle the already quite tangled web of frenemies and eneiends in the region.

[Jefferson23]

37. Seven Israeli soldiers killed in last 24 hours in Gaza

IDF death toll rises to 25; Egypt mulls changes to truce proposal; Hezbollah vows to aid Hamas; major rocket barrage fired at south and central Israel, two rockets intercepted over greater Tel Aviv; Gaza militants infiltrate south, casualties among IDF troops; IDF death toll rises to 18, six fallen soldiers named; Gaza death toll rises to 508.

By Haaretz | Jul. 21, 2014 | 9:04 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606315

[Jefferson23]

38. 23 killed in Gaza 'in 2 hours'

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Israeli artillery shelling and airstrikes across the Gaza Strip killed 23 Palestinians over only two hours late Monday, bringing the day's death toll to over 100.

Spokesman for the ministry of health Ashraf al-Qidra said 11 Palestinians including five children were killed, and others were injured in an Israeli strike on Israa tower in central Gaza City.

Eight of them were identified as Ibrahim Deeb Ahmad al-Kilani, 53, Yasir Ibrahim Deeb al-Kilani, 8, Elias Ibrahim Deeb al-Kilani, 4, Sawsan Ibrahim Deeb al-Kilani, 11, Reem Ibrahim Deeb al-Kilani, 12, Taghrid Shabaan Mohammad al-Kilani, 45, Mahmoud Shabaan Mohammad Dirbas, 37 and Ayda Shabaan Mohammad Dirbas, 47.

A Ma'an reporter said they included a father, mother their four children, and the mother's brother and sister.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=715147

[Jefferson23]

39. Brotherhood of Israeli 'lone soldiers’ loses two Americans in Gaza

Sean Carmeli, from Texas, and Max Steinberg, from L.A., were among the community of fighters without family in their adopted country.

By Alona Ferber | 22:57 21.07.14 |

Among the names of the 13 Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza on Sunday, the bloodiest day so far on both sides of the current round of fighting between Israel and Hamas, were Nissim Sean Carmeli, 21, and Max Steinberg, 24. Both were dual American-Israeli citizens, and both were “lone soldiers” in the Israeli army. This term refers to those who move to Israel from abroad, serving...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606509

[ann---]

54. And if

Muslim-Americans went to fight for Palestine they would be crucified by the American press.

[Jefferson23]

40. Millions down the tunnel: How Israel botched the battle against Hamas

The writing about the Hamas's network of tunnels was on the wall but nobody wanted to read it, says a geologist who set up Military Intelligence’s special-operations division.

By Avi Bar-Eli | 16:18 21.07.14 |

By Amos Harel | Jul. 21, 2014 | 1:47 AM | 2

In 2000, the Defense Ministry published a tender to find a technological answer to the tunnels that Hamas uses to infiltrate into Israel from Gaza.

Three parties contended: the government-controlled Geophysical Institute, a private company that defense electronics firm Elbit Systems wound up buying, and an unknown company named Hadas, which won.

After eight years, nothing came of the contract, but in the meantime millions of shekels had spiraled down the drain. Three years ago the challenge was handed to a consortium of private and public entities, but this group was too late to help the soldiers killed in recent days by Hamas militants popping up from tunnels.

Hadas’ former manager, Gil Pogozelich, told TheMarker his company’s work with the Defense Ministry hadn’t been a flop at all.

“Millions of shekels were invested just in proving the feasibility of the technology,” he says. “The investment in the system itself wasn’t completed. I think the decision not to continue investing in the system wasn’t about the technology.”

In other words, technology to tackle the tunnels was abandoned because of decisions about priorities?

“Possibly. Israel has plenty of talented engineers. You could put together a force and handle it quietly. This isn’t an unsolvable problem.”

Hadas’ controlling shareholder had been an American named David Anthony, but he died in 2010 and the company shut down, Pogozelich says. He denies that Hadas went bankrupt; in the previous decade it had won a contract to protect pipelines for companies like Brazilian giant Petrobras, he says. But in January 2010 Hadas sold most of its know-how to state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, and its team moved on.

Why did the Defense Ministry choose your technology?

“All the technologies operate on the same principle: sensors and algorithms. The Geophysical Institute had no system and still doesn’t. What they had was seismic sensors that can discern subterranean motion. But that’s useless without an algorithm. With time and a budget they might have developed a system.”

What progress did you make in eight years?

“I can’t discuss it.”

One person happy to talk about the defense establishment’s waste of time is geologist Yossi Langotsky, a colonel in the reserves and the man behind Israel’s massive oil-and-gas discoveries under the Mediterranean. He also set up Military Intelligence’s special-operations division, back when he commanded its operational-technology unit. Langotsky and the unit won awards for developments he led.

The army should never have given intelligence the job of resolving the tunnel problem, Langotsky says, adding that three times defense officials relegated finding a solution to private enterprise — and all attempts failed, while the Geophysical Institute had been working on a volunteer basis.

A 2010 investigative report by Ronen Bergman in the daily Yedioth Ahronoth showed that as early as the 1990s, the Geophysical Institute sought to take advantage of its experience in mapping subterranean spaces to devise a solution to the tunnel problem.

The answer it presented to the Defense Ministry in 2001 was an underground seismic fence whose poles in the earth bore sensors to sense movements in the ground. The institute said a pilot project on the fence near Kerem Shalom — where a vast Hamas tunnel has just been discovered — detected the tunnel’s construction.

But the Defense Ministry opted for Hadas’ more-advanced solution.

In 2004, Langotsky began consulting on the tunnels for the Israel Defense Forces’ chief of staff at the time, Moshe Ya’alon, now the defense minister. A 2005 report slammed the tender process, but no defense official — or Knesset member — heeded the strategic threat.

“When I said dozens of tunnels had been dug in the Strip, Knesset members, encouraged by army officers, accused me of sowing panic for personal reasons,” Langotsky recalls. “Now we know there are hundreds.”

Low-tech tunnels are a strategic threat and the solution is geophysical, he insists. “This isn’t a mission for the IDF, and it isn’t rocket science. It’s geophysics.”

To Langotsky’s credit, he continued to harass Israel’s leaders about the tunnel threat — and he blames them all.

“The defense establishment was warned,” he says. “It had enough scientific powers, but for seven years the defense establishment avoided doing what could have been done in two.”

http://www.haaretz.com/business/.premium-1.606434

[Jefferson23]

41. Another man hits his mark: A decisive conclusion is necessary

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.


Anyone who thinks Hamas is going to beg for a cease-fire, that Operation Pillar of Defense will draw to a close and quiet will reign in the South because we hit targets in the Gaza Strip, needs to think again.

With the elimination of a murderous terrorist and the destruction of Hamas’s long-range missile stockpile, the operation was off to an auspicious start, but what now? This must not be allowed to end as did Operation Cast Lead: We bomb them, they fire missiles at us, and then a cease-fire, followed by “showers” – namely sporadic missile fire and isolated incidents along the fence. Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.

A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

The Gaza Strip functions as a state – it has a government and conducts foreign relations, there are schools, medical facilities, there are armed forces and all the other trappings of statehood. We have no territorial conflict with “Gaza State,” and it is not under Israeli siege – it shares a border with Egypt. Despite this, it fires on our citizens without restraint.

Why do our citizens have to live with rocket fire from Gaza while we fight with our hands tied? Why are the citizens of Gaza immune? If the Syrians were to open fire on our towns, would we not attack Damascus? If the Cubans were to fire at Miami, wouldn’t Havana suffer the consequences? That’s what’s called “deterrence” – if you shoot at me, I’ll shoot at you. There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.

Were this to happen, the images from Gaza might be unpleasant – but victory would be swift, and the lives of our soldiers and civilians spared.

IF THE government isn’t prepared to go all the way on this, it will mean reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip. Not a few neighborhoods in the suburbs, as with Cast Lead, but the entire Strip, like in Defensive Shield, so that rockets can no longer be fired.

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip. Otherwise there will be no decisive victory. And we’re running out of time – we must achieve victory quickly. The Netanyahu government is on a short international leash. Soon the pressure will start – and a million civilians can’t live under fire for long. This needs to end quickly – with a bang, not a whimper.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/A-decisive-conclusion-is-necessary

[bemildred]

43. Yep, that's the mindset. nt

[Jefferson23]

47. It's a toss up for me, which is more repulsive, his ideas or that he is comfortable to put

it out there..so brazen. Maybe it's a tie.

[Jefferson23]

42. The truth about conspiracy theories is that some require considering

July 20, 2014

The Greeks tell a story against themselves about their tendency to believe in conspiracy theories. They relate how God decided that he would give every nation as a gift a special national characteristic. On the appointed day, representatives of the nations of the world entered the divine presence and were handed their gifts. The Americans received optimism, the French elegance, the British stoicism, the Russians courage, the Iranians cunning, and so on.

The Greek delegation was delayed and arrived late just as the other nations were leaving. God apologised and explained to them that he was sorry but he had already given away the most desirable characteristics and there were none left. The Greeks were enraged and protested furiously, shouting "so you too, God, have joined the plot against us as we always expected you would. Go on, tell us who is paying you and why do you conspire against us?" Angered in turn, God said: "Very well, you Greeks will have a gift in keeping with your accusations. In future, it will be part of your national character to always believe in conspiracy to explain everything that happens to you."

I was first told this story by a Greek Cypriot historian in 1975, a year after the Turkish invasion and part occupation of Cyprus. His point was that one reason for the disaster was that the Greeks and Greek Cypriots had been too prone to see politics in terms of plots and conspiracies and forgot the over-riding strategic fact that Cyprus is 600 miles from Athens and 40 miles from Turkey.

Conspiracy theories are damaging because they enable individuals, communities and governments to divert attention from their real problems and shift the blame for their failures elsewhere. Within hours of the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner over Ukraine, such theories were swirling around about who exactly shot it down and why commercial airliners were being routed over a war zone where two military aircraft had recently been destroyed by missiles.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-truth-about-conspiracy-theories-is-that-some-require-considering-9616863.html

[bemildred]

44. Machievelli knew what he was talking about. nt

[Jefferson23]

46. I'll say. It's a darn good piece, he asks pertinent questions and is willing to wade through

much of the muck of conspiracy theories.

[bemildred]

49. People do conspire. It's common, not even unusual.

And they do really shitty things to get their way too, all the time.

Look at the elaborate secret tunnel network under Gaza? Would that not be dismissed as bullshit here, tinfoil stuff, if it had not been shown true? But it's perfectly logical once you think of it. The only place they can go is down. They are probably master tunnel builders by now.

And yet a lot of the theorizing out there about observable historical and political events is bullshit, most of it, 90% of it. And that is what really bugs people, is not knowing, ambiguity, and that's why they cling to theories. It's scary when you don't know what's going on. Your mind loves to see patterns, and it's comforting.

But the truth is the future is not determinate, and history is at best a sketchy version of the elaborate reality that once played out, and politics largely a pack of lies, and we get blindsided by events all the time.

But usually when someone starts blathering on about conspiracy theories here on the net, I assume they are trying to shut people up for one reason or another, issue posters, government or business shills, people who think they know what is going on and don't want to think about it, it's another form of name calling. And a lot of the time they are right, just because a lot fo theorizing wrong.

[Jefferson23]

50. Absoultely and why I appreciate a thoughtful piece to look at the subjects at hand.

That is a good point, with such chaos in the world, a need to understand and make sense
can be a driving force for ct. Another unhelpful fuel is the lack of trust citizens hold for their
government when they realize they have been lied to, these bad policies which in the end
served no one..but sometimes served a monetary gain for a small percent. Broken trust can reap
a hell of a lot conspiracy as well...this of course is not helpful, because as you say, people do
in fact conspire for ill.

[bemildred]

55. Indeed. nt

[Jefferson23]

48. Palestinians in Israel clash with police over Gaza assault

NAZERETH, Israel (AFP) -- Palestinian citizens of Israel clashed with police in the northern city of Nazareth on Monday, police said, at the end of a protest against Israel's deadly military strikes in the Gaza Strip.

The clashes came as Nazareth and cities in the West Bank observed a general strike to mourn the victims of the Gaza conflict between Israel and Hamas -- the bloodiest since 2009 -- that has cost more than 500 Palestinian lives in two weeks.

Police spokeswoman Luba Samri said about 200 Palestinian citizens of Israel in Nazareth clashed with security forces, who responded with a water cannon and stun grenades, arresting 16 people after the 3,000-strong demonstration in Israel's largest Palestinian city.

Demonstrators held up placards reading "Israeli army commits genocide in Gaza."

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=715321

[Jefferson23]

56. Palestinian human rights leader: 'Cast Lead was a joke compared to this'

LISTEN: Israeli human rights lawyer Michael Sfard speak to Raji Sourani, founder and director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, about the ongoing destruction in Shujaiyeh, the use of human shields and the fate of Gaza’s civilian population.

By Michael Sfard and Raji Sourani

Raji Sourani: Hello

Michael Sfard: Raji? This is Michael. Can you speak now?

R: Yes, yes.

M: So, how was last night?

R: Well last night was difficult, the worst in the last two weeks. This is incredible evil. Ambulances weren’t able to reach the areas which were under heavy bombardment by tanks and F16s. And F22s were used too last night. And these kinds of bombs that we are not familiar making the houses last in an earthquake. You know, it just shakes for a few seconds.

M: There are no warnings before?

R: No no no. It just on the top of the people, on their heads. It is a war zone, not bombing. You see slain [people]. Six to eight bombed per minute. Not for 10 minutes, or one hour, all the east side of Gaza, Zeiton, Shujaiyeh, eastern Jabaliya, nothern area, eastern Khan Younis, eastern Rafah…

M: Israeli friends reported that the IDF, the Israeli army made notifications that the civilians could go to some areas. Are there any areas that are safe to be?

R: No, there is not safe place in Gaza. You can be in the street, in my office or home and you will be bombed and away from my house, sixty meters a house was bombed by an F16. This can anywhere, whether it a drone, F16, and tonight they used F22. Gaza, Michael, I’m telling you, 350 square kilometers, two million people are living in it. It is one of the most densely populated areas on earth. Anywhere you move. You can ask people from the northern or eastern areas to move but you are taking about 400,000. They ask eastern Khan Younis, where to go?

in full:http://972mag.com/palestinian-human-rights-leader-cast-lead-was-a-joke-compared-to-this/93968/

[Jefferson23]

57. Israel looks to Lebanon model for Gaza endgame

Doubting a cease-fire can be reached through Egypt's mediation, Israeli officials consider turning to UN Security Council.
By Barak Ravid | 01:33 23.07.1

Two weeks into the war in Gaza no ceasefire is yet on the horizon. The diplomatic shuttling between representatives of the United States, Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Norway and the UN Secretary General, as well as some European Union countries, has so far not yielded any outline for stopping the fighting. In fact, the opposite is true: Too many chefs have spoiled all the broths prepared so far.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606714/.premium-1.606714

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

60. Well that's a relief. Now the UN is relevant again.

It's funny how that works, isn't it?

[Jefferson23]

58. Israeli soldier whom Hamas says it captured is declared missing

The 21-year-old Golani sergeant was in a vehicle hit at the battle in Gaza’s Shujaiyeh neighborhood.

By Gili Cohen and Eli Ashkenazi | 03:30 23.07.14

Oron Shaul, a 21-year-old sergeant in the Golani Brigade, has been declared missing in action following the attack early Sunday on the armored personnel carrier he was riding in as Israeli troops advanced in Gaza City. Shaul is from Poriya, a community near Tiberias.

[Jefferson23]

59. Report: Fatah members met with Hamas official in Cairo on ceasefire

Ma'an News Agency reported Tuesday that senior Fatah member Azzam al-Ahmad met in Cairo with senior Hamas member Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook and Director of Palestinian Intelligence Majed Faraj. The three discussed attempts at reaching a ceasefire agreement in Gaza.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4548483,00.html

[Jefferson23]

61. Hamas conserving its rockets, say Israeli army officials

The IDF believes that Hamas is now firing fewer rockets because it wants to extend the duration of the fighting.

According to IDF figures, since the beginning of the ground operation Hamas has fired fewer rockets and mortars at communities in the south. The average of the past few days has been about 90 launches a day, of which about 20 have been intercepted. Security officials believe that the reason for the slowdown is both because of the dwindling stocks in the hands of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and the organizations’ desire to hold on to the remaining arsenal.

According to Military Intelligence, Hamas had about 9,000 rockets in the Gaza Strip. About 2,300 rockets were fired at communities in Israel since the beginning of the operation, and the IDF believes that it hit about 35 percent of the total number of all the rockets. That leaves about 3,000 rockets that Hamas can still use.

Sources in the IDF also say that about half the facilities that produce the rockets in Gaza have been hit. Security officials say they also believe that even if there is a cease-fire, Hamas will want to launch a final massive rocket attack on the south.

However, the army believes that Hamas operatives near the border are beginning to break. Thursday morning, for example, two armed men emerged from a tunnel with their hands up, and surrendered to a paratroop force nearby. The pair were taken into custody and sent for interrogation.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.607132